'Please Stay Put'

Posted: Monday, April 16, 2007 3:45 PM by Countdown

BLACKSBURG, Va. (AP) -- Virginia Tech students and an employee say the first e-mail warning they got from the university about the shooting rampage came more than two hours after the first shots were fired -- by which time the gunman had struck again.

--

The ~~five~~ six emails sent to students today at Virginia Tech, in sequential order...

----- Forwarded message from Unirel@vt.edu -----
     Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 09:26:24 -0400
    From: Unirel@vt.edu
Reply-To: Unirel@vt.edu
Subject: Shooting on campus.
       To: Multiple recipients <LISTSERV@LISTSERV.VT.EDU>

A shooting incident occurred at West Amber Johnston earlier this morning.
Police are on the scene and are investigating.

The university community is urged to be cautious and are asked to contact Virginia Tech Police if you observe anything suspicious or with information on the case. Contact Virginia Tech Police at 231-6411

Stay attuned to the www.vt.edu. We will post as soon as we have more
information.

----- Forwarded message from Unirel@vt.edu -----
    Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 09:50:07 -0400
    From: Unirel@vt.edu
Reply-To: Unirel@vt.edu
Subject: PLease stay put
      To: Multiple recipients <LISTSERV@LISTSERV.VT.EDU>

A gunman is loose on campus. Stay in buildings until further notice. Stay away from all windows

----- Forwarded message from Unirel@vt.edu -----
    Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 10:16:40 -0400
    From: Unirel@vt.edu
Reply-To: Unirel@vt.edu
Subject: All Classes Canceled; Stay where you are
      To: Multiple recipients <LISTSERV@LISTSERV.VT.EDU>

Virginia Tech has canceled all classes. Those on campus are asked to remain where there are, lock their doors and stay away from windows. Persons off campus are asked not to come to campus.

----- Forwarded message from Unirel@vt.edu -----
    Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 10:52:45 -0400
    From: Unirel@vt.edu
Reply-To: Unirel@vt.edu
Subject: Second Shooting Reported; Police have one gunman in custody
      To: Multiple recipients <LISTSERV@LISTSERV.VT.EDU>

In addition to an earlier shooting today in West Ambler Johnston, there has been a multiple shooting with multiple victims in Norris Hall.

Police and EMS are on the scene.

Police have one shooter in custody and as part of routine police procedure, they continue to search for a second shooter.

All people in university buildings are required to stay inside until further notice.

All entrances to campus are closed.

----- Forwarded message from Unirel@vt.edu -----
    Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 12:41:44 -0400
    From: Unirel@vt.edu
Reply-To: Unirel@vt.edu
Subject: Statement by President Charles W. Steger
      To: Multiple recipients <LISTSERV@LISTSERV.VT.EDU>

Shooting at Virginia Tech / Statement by President Charles W. Steger

The university was struck today with a tragedy of monumental proportions. There were two shootings on campus. In each case, there were fatalities. The university is shocked and horrified that this would befall our campus. I want to extend my deepest, sincerest and most profound sympathies to the families of these victims which include students There are 22 confirmed deaths.

We currently are in the process of notifying families of victims. The Virginia Tech Police are being assisted by numerous other jurisdictions. Crime scenes are being investigated by the FBI, University Police, and State Police. We continue to work to identify the victims impacted by this tragedy. I cannot begin to covey my own personal sense of loss over this senselessness of such an incomprehensible and heinous act The university will immediately set up counseling centers. So far centers have been identified in Ambler Johnson and the Cook Counseling Center to work with our campus community and families.

Here are some of the facts we know:

At about 7:15 a.m. this morning a 911 call came to the University Police Department concerning an event in West Amber Johnston Hall. There were multiple shooting victims. While in the process of investigating, about two hours later
the university received reports of a shooting in Norris Hall. The police immediately responded. Victims have been transported to various hospitals in the immediate area in the region to receive emergency treatment.

We will proceed to contact the families of victims as identities are available.

All classes are cancelled and the university is closed for the remainder for the today. The university will open tomorrow at 8 a.m. but classes will be cancelled on Tuesday. The police are currently staging the release of people from campus buildings.

Families wishing to reunite with the students are suggested to meet at the Inn at Virginia Tech. We are making plans for a convocation tomorrow (Tuesday) at noon at Cassell Coliseum for the university community to come together to begin to deal with the tragedy.

------

TEXT OF LATEST EMAIL SENT OUT TO ALL VIRGINIA TECH STUDENTS FROM UNIVERSITY OFFICIALS:

Virginia Tech remains closed on Monday, April 16, 2007. Vehicular entrances to campus are severely restricted to essential personnel only. Additional security remains on campus as the investigation continues.

Counseling assistance for students in available at West Ambler Johnston and McComas Hall until 9 p.m. tonight. Students are encouraged to utilize these services. Counseling for faculty and staff is available at the Bowman Room in the Merriman Center (athletic complex). Student may also be together at the Old Dominion Ballroom at Squires Student Center.

The university will also close on Tuesday, April 17. Essential personal are to report for work. Classes will be canceled.

A public gathering will be held Tuesday, April 17 at Cassell Coliseum at 2 p.m. (a time change from the originally scheduled 10 a.m. gathering).

All students are urged to contact their parents as soon as possible to let them know individuals are safe.

Students, faculty, and staff who may have any information related to the incident at West Amber Johnston Hall and Norris Hall are encouraged to go to the Blacksburg Police Department to make statements, or call 540-231-TIPP (8477), or 231-6411

Parents with concerns are asked to call the Dean of Students Office at 540-231-3787.

Individuals injured in the two shootings have been taken to area hospitals.

EMAIL THIS

Comments

Are we sure this was not a terrorist attack? If they have no idea who this guy was, then why aren't the news agencies (and/or police) discussing the possiblity that this guy could have been a terrorist? I've been flipping back and forth between MSNBC and CNN and have heard no comment at all on this subject. Thank you.

M. Dellavenutura, Alexandria, VA (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 5:43 PM)

Dear Students of Virginia Tech We are all Praying for you. Our deepest sympathy to all of you. We know this is very difficult for you our young adults and our future to understand. This huge tragedy is hard for all of us at this time. We do want you to understand that If we are not able to speak with you individually we are standing in the mist of it all with our arms out wanting to help. We want you all to understand that you all are our children and we too, hurt. You may not know us individually but we know you, you are our Future. We Love You So Much.... We Are Safeco Claims Department; Richardson, Texas

Barbara Anderson (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 5:47 PM)

My heart goes out to the students and faculty at VT. I lived in DC for 7 years and had many friends that went to VT. But one must also question how this could happen. I hope the NRA and the Republicans are happy. This is not what the second amendment is meant to support.

michael (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 6:02 PM)

Although the VT students have better things to be doing than reading a blog, my thoughts and prayers are with you all. I have just one thought on this. He killed at least 32 people while searching for his girlfriend? I'm sorry, but it sounds like he had a murderous agenda, not a broken heart, and news agencies should listen to their statements out loud sometimes before repeating them monotonously on the air.

Brandon Ingels, Glenwood Springs, Colorado (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 6:07 PM)

There are rational explanations for irrational behavior but there are too few rational remedies. Sadly, our complacent and consumer driven youth are totally emmersed in violence, from the TV they watch to the games they play. Gun rights advocates and video game programmers seem to want to protect their "rights" at the expense of modern realitites. Even our own government has a hand in this mess with its with-me/against-me, bring-it-on posturing as a means to resolve conflict. Never mind trying to introduce the violence and death filled Bible as a required elementary level class, even the most faithful wahabi-ist does that, and look at the results it produces in that culture. It seems to me that we'd be better off with adding classes in multi-culturalism, conflict resolution, responsible behavior, and second languages. No, it won't prevent such tragedies, but it would make it easier for the next generation to deal with tragedy. Our society is deeply immeshed in a culture of right/wrong litigation. Even the smallest of children know that if Johnny hits Mary on the schoolground, that the teacher will act as "judge", listen to the story, and determine who is guilty and due punishment. Nothing is resolved in this system, someone is always left wanting more. And by wanting more, feeling deserved of getting that more, and not getting it, losing leads to anger, resentment, and in too many tragedies like this, death. My prayers for all concerned. Like it or not, be prepared for an onslaught of self-righteous blaming and reactionary litigation from our ambulance chasing pundits, and self interested politicos. Half a trillion dollars spent on this century's "police action", lawyers in Texas trying to keep gun owners ability to legally pack a weapon over the desire of business owners and employers, and we still can't keep people from being killed en-mass by the malcontents of this nation. Truly a sad day.

rodney, rita returnee, lake charles, la (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 6:26 PM)

Gee. I wonder if he'll turn out to be a religious nut.

Jasper, Houston (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 6:55 PM)

M.D. - No, we're not sure this wasn't a terrorist attack -- mainly because this kind of attack is surely a form of terrorism, even if it was perpetratored by a US citizen. It is terrorism from within caused by a failure to address its root causes, and it is the kind of terrorism we seem to be doomed to repeat, over and over again. Fighting them "over there" does no good if we allow our own society to rot from within.

Bonnie, Madison, Wisconsin (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 7:24 PM)

Terrorism???? How many people died in this country BEFORE 9/11 every year because of gun-related violence? 10,000+++ How many people died in this country AFTER 11 every year because of gun-related violence? 10,000+++ How many people died on 9/11? ~3,000. Yes, terrorism is a problem. However, this nation has not woken up to gun violence since Columbine, the 1966 U.T. shootings, the countless post office shootings, the Luby cafeteria shooting, etc. As a nation, we are in denial about the problem of gun-related violence. Think about it...each one of us has a much greater odd of being killed by a gun than any terrorist. See a problem?

Jason Kirkland, NY NY (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 7:28 PM)

What scares me far more is what happens when a well-trained, heavily-armed team of 10 to 12 militants starts shooting. This was one kid with a handgun, a seal-like team could pretty much shut down a small city. For what it's worth, as the author of Preparing for a Super-Disaster (Law Enforcement Technology magazine 8/04), I believe the only way we have to counter such random terrorist-like attacks is to have small National Guard outposts (about 35m in diameter for about 30 troops) near each and every city. Too often, we hear about heavily armed gunmen holding off the police like two bank robbers did in LA several years ago. In such times, we need units that have “armored vehicles” and that are far more heavily armed with weapons and body armor than the average police. These bases could have rooftop mortars and anti-aircraft abilities to take down a stray aircraft or call in light artillery support if needed. Trust me, the head of the Union of Atomic Scientists (the keepers of the Doomsday Clock) said that society only had a 50% chance of making it thought this century. He felt that terrorist and biological attacks will be as common as computer viruses as your average wing-nut gets a hold of more and more technology. Stationing National Guard troops in this way is also better for disaster response and is what is called a "Dispersal Strategy." It means that we can no longer afford to keep troops in central barracks locations. We must spread them out for fear of a mass attack. Such a basing strategy is the right thing to do for many reasons. In my area there is a nuclear power plant, an international airport, key road and rail junctions, and chemical storage facilities, yet the nearest National Guard base is 20 miles away. Such hardened outposts would have been key to keeping law and order after Katrina and would have been “pre-positioned.” This is not a call for a police state. It is just a more active way to station existing troops to be more effective when needed.

Chris Eldridge, Harrisburg PA (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 7:58 PM)

What can an extremely distraught person do to quickly end the life of someone else if they do not have a gun? Let's see: they could run over them with a car, throw them off a cliff, drop a piano on their head, force feed poison to them, go after them with an axe....you know, I think it would save lives to make as sure as possible that distraught folks do not have the possibility to run amuck in a populated area with a loaded gun. except

Jean Wood, Corvallis, Oregon (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 7:59 PM)

I was wondering where the people who WANT martial law live. I guess it is Pennsylvania.

Todd, New Orleans, LA (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 8:21 PM)

This is undoubtedly a heartbreaking and horrific event. Before being too critical of the response by the campus police department, we should ask ourselves how they could have ever imagined this tradegy if there was infact no proof in the first shooting of a coming second shooting (provided they are linked). The question may need to be, what clues did exist, and could they have been recognized? How do we learn from them? This is a horrible terrible event.

Julie Thick Clio, MI (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 8:26 PM)

I've read a lot of stupidy but the comments on this are beyond stupid. GUNS? NRA? Bible? Democrates? stupid people try to blame anything and everyone, but the person responsible, as if he had no choice. So Chris and Michael it must be your fault.

Susan, WI (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 8:29 PM)

The shooter appears to be an ALIEN, a guest in the country so all that anti NRA garbage is just THAT ! He's not ALLOWED to own or even to possess a gun of ANY kind !Please shut up so we can REALLY prevent things like this in the future. George J. Dagis

George J. Dagis, Saugerties, NY (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 9:08 PM)

Our dear precious students and families. We pray for you all. May God continue to grant a peace that passeth understanding in the days, weeks ahead.

Msry Thompson alan.son, Michigan (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 9:08 PM)

Hmm, let me see if I get this or not. I must be stupid because I dislike the gun culture promoted by the NRA. I must be stupid because I am blaming(?) the Bible if I choose to prefer courses that expand a child's capability to deal with adversity. I must be stupid because I read no-where in my blog or anyone elses' the word "Democrates" And this is all Chris & Mike's fault because....? Okay, me be really "f"ing stupid here one more time as I re-iterate; this is a tragedy. this is not something to be made light of. It concerns my abdication of deeply entrenched traditionalism, preferring instead some sort of enlightened self interest regarding kids, guns, learning, problem solving, conflict resolution and a society overwhelmed by the "If I can't get what I want from who I want when I want it, I'll sue or shoot someone" mentality. Yes, I blame the shooter, but even the most neophyte of observers knows that behind the shooter is a litany of excess, covered in instant gratification, compounded by money'd interests, and spurred on by the greed, arrogance and apathy of those who control what we the people are supposed to control yet don't. Namely, how our children learn to deal with not getting their way without destroying themselves or others in the process. Yep, I must be stupid to think that by changing the environment that breeds this deadly narcissism, we could avert other tragedies. The sad fact of the matter is this. No matter how many laws you write, prisons you build, judges you appoint, churches you attend, you cannot guarantee safety. You can only make your best effort to stem the tide through involvement and education. Stupid me.

stupid rodney, dumb lake charles, idiotic la (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 9:28 PM)

The lesson may be less broad than we think. Gun laws will be broken, terrorists will overcome security, a seriously psychotic person will surprise. Unfortunately, psychotic, lovesick, or politically charged individuals present threats in a variety of settings. No one knows the when, where or whom of the next homicidal catastrophe. Densely populated entities such as schools and universities pose greater risks of attack. Their confines provide easy killing zones. Administrators of educational, business and governmental campuses should be trained to deal with extreme crisis management. Protocols requiring quick communication and response could contain or frustrate a mass homicidal event. Perhaps such crisis training and protocols could have saved thirty lives today. Maybe that is our lesson.

Bruce Galloway (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 9:50 PM)

How could the campus police have ever 'imagined this tragedy'? The campus police did not need a crystal ball, ouija board or tarot cards to divine that a SECOND shooting was going to occur: as of approximately 8am this morning they apparently had two dead bodies, killed by some calibre of firearm(s), and no one in custody. These facts and circumstances would, I believe, cause most reasonable people to be alarmed and, in so being alarmed, they might want to "alarm" others who might possibly cross the path of the unknown assailant with lethal weaponry. For the campus police to say that they didn't notify anyone of the initial homcides because they didn't know where the assailant was (on the campus? off the campus? out of the state? in the school library?)is absolutely ludicrous--it is the fact that you DON'T know where the killer(s) is/are that, since the beginning of an organized police force, has caused the immediate issuance of BOLO (Be On the Look Out for) announcements in situations such as these. I will pray for the Virginia Tech Chief of Campus Police; I could not imagine having to look into the eyes of the parents of the innocents slaughtered and try to explain why their children had no idea it was coming, and no way to protect themselves.

Ronald Hazzard, Columbia, South Carolina (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 10:05 PM)

Lake Charles''gun culture'for those as young as these college students is not 'promoted'by the NRA.Teens who have never even heard of the organization can tell you every single level to beat in GRAND THEFT AUTO,where gangbanging gunslinging is the order of the day.Never mind 'gin and juice'['juice',coming from the power of the gun],which is blasted in every bar in every city and in every college on Spring Break and beyond.Blaming the NRA is an ineffective exercise in an environment where violence is routinely celebrated in a mass-consumption form.Forget 'Super Mario Brothers'.It is now ''City Streets''where the object is to kill every gangster you see with a huge array of cyber-weaponry.Forget the old phonyness of 'Big Time Wrestling'complete with Gorgeous Georges and Haystack Calhouns.It is now 'cage fighting',bloody,ugly,brutish and short.Manners disappear more rapidly than a puddle in Death Valley in this graceless age,and behaviors,even in small infractions by the citizenry one upon the other,these are becoming increasingly violent.Sports and entertainment superstars are routinely involved in shootings and allowed to get off with small penalty.None of this can be laid at the feet of the NRA.As Pogo may have observed,''we have seen the enemy,and it is us''.

Lee Holmes (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 10:20 PM)

And now for something really beyond stupity. "Guns don't kill people, people kill people." Somewhere tonight are hundreds of family members who could really be comforted by the "truth" of that premise.

rodney, profoundly saddened, la (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 10:32 PM)

In time, all the facts will arrive, but I suspect they won't do much to explain WHY this happenned. His exact thoughts and intentions may always be a mystery, even to the assailant. But we do know HOW. And you would think that would be enough for those who think it's cool to own automatic weapons without any kind of regular sanity check. But of course, they'll blame the intentions. Not the means. Not the ability. Not the guns. They'll be bemused by how someone who loves to own and covet lethal weapons could possibly be moved to used them. Videogames will probably become involved. But all that is for the future. For the moment, all we should do is add our mourning voices. This was beyond wrong. It was insanity. Children died today. And it doesn't matter what we do next, how we react to 'prevent another one', because It's already too late.

Jeremy Lee (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 10:36 PM)

TWO hours? TWO hours it took them to shut down the campus. On 9/11, that horrifying day, we, in NYC, got nearly 50,000 evacuated - moved - within 2 hours. To even entertain the notion that you can't prevent a whole bunch of college kids @ SEVEN am (when most are still sleeping, probably) to not leave their dorms is just unbelievable and unacceptable. My heart, sympathies, and deepest thoughts are with those @ VT and those who have lost a loved one.

Amit SB, New York, NY (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 10:51 PM)

Although tragic, this story is getting far too much air time. Stop for a second and think of the preventable deaths each year attributable to tobacco (about 400,000) or obesity (about 300,000). What about the 100 or so people killed in Iraq each day? All of these deaths can be prevented. Tragic mass killings, are an essential capacity of the human species. Like the common cold, its specter will probably always be with us. Sadly, humans are capable of great evil and on a far larger scale then what happened today. Let's not get distracted from the great issues of the day. Let's accept what has happened, plan for a better police response in the future, counsel the victims and their families, and apply ourselves to fixing the numerous other more pressing problems facing our nation and our world. Besides, there's nothing more likely to cause a repeat of this phenomenon than twenty-four hour coverage of the event. After all, like a terrorist, the gunman clearly wanted his voice to be heard. Let's not do him that honor.

Andrew Fitanides (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 11:03 PM)

Yes, George, you're right of course. Any coherent statement on my part, any interest in promoting a healthy approach to conflict resolution, any inkling of disgust with the status quo regarding gun proliferation, any dissatisfaction with the unencumbered commercialism of chaos and mayhem on a gameboy, any sadness on my part of the impatience and selfishness of our children and their children, any and all of these comments, my rude intrusion into the domain of your beloved pistolero packing pachyderms must be an impediment to further prevention of these tragedies. So therefore, I of course, must shut up because you say so. You can step in it, you can smell it, you can feel it, but you don't have to taste it to know bullsh*t when you hear it, and George, you have not furthered anything with your vehemance except to prove my contention regarding the sour side of your traditionalism. Next thing you'll no doubt want to do is to wave your liscenced rifle at a Mexican somewhere 'cuz that's what erstwhile patriots do, right? Well just how many deaths each year will it take for ostrich-minded, trigger happy, gun totin' tough guys to quit blaming the immigrant, the democrat, the moderate, the atheist, the gay, or women for ya'lls' lack of self esteem? Geez, where's Pam B when I need her, this blog thread is getting too heavy to handle alone. Quick! Somebody give me a gun, my manhood and patriotism and intelligence are all under attack and I feel compelled to shoot something! (that's called sarcasm, in case you were too busy skipping english classes for target practice.)

rodney lake charles la (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 11:03 PM)

Bonnie, Madison, Wisconsin - Excellent point. I remember the horrible Oklahoma bombing, and initially most news networks reported it was an "act of terrorism". One poor man of Middle Eastern decent was transported back from Italy and initially held and interrogated for hours. We were never told why; however, within several hours we learned the horror that yes, it was terrorism, but domestic terrorism. The media was irresponsible in my opinion with its initial reporting, and I hope we can learn an important lesson from that. It was also reported today that both a semi-automatic pistol and a handgun were used in the murders today, and they are both weapons very easy to purchase in Virginia. Also reported is that Virginia’s current is grade is a C- for gun control legislation enforcement. My prayers go out to every family member suffering today, and will continue for quite some time. May God Bless you and keep you strong during this horrible time.

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 11:04 PM)

The shooter was a Chinese immigrant here since Aug 2006 on a student "visa". It is unknown whether or not this was a phoney visa or not. There is no way that he could have obtained the weapontry by legal means. Existing laws are not being enforced. As an expert on guns and terrorism, I can say that if some of the victums had been armed, they could have shot down the terrorist, thus avoiding further deaths."When only the Chinese Communists have guns, everyone willl bow to the Chinese."- Dr Duke

Dr Duke Hartford CT (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 11:36 PM)

Irrational acts cannot be understood in rational terms...What makes, causes someone to snap? Are we all capable of losing control and just lashing out at the world? I hope the answer is no, but I also believe we all have a breaking point. No explanation can make sense of someone killing so many innocent people at Virginia Tech...No explanation will ever give comfort to the families, to Blacksburg, to me...the sun will rise tomorrow, and I hope people close to the edge, with guns in hand, who have a plan in mind to lash out and kill, find meaning somewhere...realize how delicate life is...cling to life and not death...I am all for gun control...but I also know all the laws in the world will not stop someone from imploding and exploding, acquiring a gun, and setting out on a reign of terror, murder, and suicide...How can someone find life so meaningless?...How can someone feel so detached?...I just hope the tragedy at Virginia Tech doesn't further divide the country...Imus did...Bushworld does...Republicans and Democrats do…We don't need more reasons to further divide our country...We need something to unite us...not cause us to drift further apart...Can we create a world were people don't feel marginalized, hopeless, and desensitized? The gunmen does need to be held accountable for his actions and motives...But let's not indict everyone who owns a gun...We all don't snap...We somehow find a way to cope...We find a creative way to vent...Whatever reasons the murderer had for his rampage are not reasons to indict the music or film industry...as much as I hate to admit it, the NRA too...We all want to assign blame...Assigning blame will only create more of a schism in America...One person snapped for reasons we won't understand...maybe we just cannot...Let’s hold him accountable, for there is no need for everyone to point fingers anywhere else and create a bigger wedge...I want to believe humor and love are stronger than pain and hatred...A tragedy can unite or divide...

George, Hammonton, NJ (Sent Monday, April 16, 2007 11:59 PM)

I politely refuse to shut up. Dispite the team taking a break and losing my last two posts, (it's ok) I will continue to respond to this issue by reminding everyone that gun proliferation, coupled with the inablility to resolve conflict, and enhanced by impatience will only leave another dead kid on soome street in this landl. Of all the inane, assinine, and truly full of it remarks I've ever heard, the one about guns not killing people is the saddest of all. For with it comes the inevitable reality that while in a simplistic and self serving way, the statement is true. So do we outlaw people? do we regulate people? Do we bind the hands of people and prevent them from leaving the house in the hands of nuts or children? Or do we let supposed sacrosanct traditionalism rule our lives instead of using some progressive approach to stemming these terrible events? George, I won't tell you to shut up, but I will say that you are wrong, you and the whole gun loving crowd. I don't have anything against guns, hunting, or people who own them. But for the love of Christ isn't there one simple way to alieviate tragedies like this without you NRA dolts going spazoid over it? Quit breathing the cordite and take a look at the result of what happens when you don't try to control who gets guns, how they get them, why they use them, and where. DEAD KIDS. DEAD KIDS. DEAD KIDS. If this guy committed an act of mass sexual perversion, you would be the first to scream your head off about prevention and retribution. anyone who could be considered an enabler would fallinto your sights. So what's the difference, physically abused and emotionally tormented from rape, or DEAD BY GUNFIRE. D E A D B Y G U N F I R E.

RODNEY MANTIA LAKE CHARLES LA (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 12:01 AM)

When Martin Bryant went beserk at Port Arthur in Tasmania killing 35 people, the only feeling was how close we all are to taking the last breath. Australia stopped in its tracks and said "What-in Australia? Surely these things can only happen in America?" Most Australians have walked through Port Arthur at some stage and like many Americans who are linked both physically and mentally to Virginia State, we can only wish you peace as you try to recovery from the horror. It will sit in the consciousness of the toughest and come back with no warning forever. The writers here today who seem callous are not - they care enough that they will never forget this day and it is their way of dealing with the reality that they too, could have been there. Those that died have painted their faces on the hearts of millions of people they will never know. God bless those left behind.

Ian Campbell, Sydney Australia (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 12:18 AM)

rodney lake charles la - WOW!! When you "hand someone their lunch", you don't fool around. Kudos to you my friend. Obviously guns kill people, and one of the types of weapons used in this horrible tragedy was banned until two years ago; when George W. Bush and his GOP led Congress let the law elapse!! No, I won't blame Bush and the GOP solely for this, as that would be idiotic. I’m not into “it’s all their fault” game as we see on this blog over and over again from those off the “right-wing” radar scale. However, we need to revive the gun control debate, and subsequent passing of legislation, and now. I don't care if this man was from Planet Mars, (as I see “immigration” coming on this one) it was reported today that both types of weapons used are very easy to purchase in Virgina. I have seen gun laws both broken and circumvented in California by gun-loving zealots who find it perfectly acceptable to own dozens of guns. The NRA teaches and preaches how to break and/or circumvent laws, and its' members think it's just fine. Well I don't!! I find it incomprehensible and irresponsible that an organization such as the NRA can and does encourage gun owners to violate laws. Further infuriating me is that the NRA continues with their multi-million dollar campaign to use "attraction" for additional “no reason” gun purchases in their irresponsible advertising and literature. Yes Rodney, guns do kill people. In addition, when our Constitution was written, I certainly do not believe the Second Amendment was designed for the intent of owning dozens of guns for no reason other that "I like them". Nor was it designed to walk into “Big 5 Sporting Goods” and purchase a gun just for the hell of it!! That's what it boils down to period. Why don't people that own multiple weapons, obviously not intended for protection or hunting and the like, just step up to the plate and admit "I love guns"!! And if not, why not? Somewhere inside their brain and conscience they know damn well their reasoning defies logic and therefore resort to comments like a.) My guns (located hundreds of miles away) are for the sole purpose of protecting my home and family or b.) It's my Second Amendment right period. Either response is unacceptable and they know damn well they are!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 1:11 AM)

please,in such a horrible moment in so so many lives.reason begs,not to blame but to ask why.why was there not a young cadet or junior law enforcement student. licenced,trained&posistioned to effectivly eliminate the threat.there is one country these acts never happen.WHY because every male between the ages 16-60 by law qualify at expert level,with a automatic weapon,by law own&maintain one in good opperating condition.Switzerland with their system of astanding milita has very,very littel violent crime,yet practly everybody owns a machiene gun. connect the dots.

Brian Mc det. mi. (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 2:20 AM)

A question for you Dr. Duke. Where I live all school zones, including college campuses, are weapon-free areas. I don't know if this is specific to Washington or even just Seattle, but I doubt it. I have a concealed weapon permit and a handgun which I carry most times. However I leave it home when I go to class because of these laws. So even I, who believes strongly in the Second Amendment, would not have been armed in this situation. Personally, I believe the "gun control means using both hands" crowd and the "guns are the root of all evil" people need to shut up with the rhetoric and sit down for a reasonable discussion of firearms and their place in our country. That this happened is a tragedy, and prayers should be said for all the victims and their families. This should not be used by anyone to justify their beliefs.

Mike C., Seattle, WA (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 2:28 AM)

Still in shock. The Univ. Fire Inspectors & Buildings Maintenance should have revealed and ordered doors unchained (escape hazard) and put in emergency exit bars on doors. Local detectives and news media should have immediately notified the public and all students of violence, so even if they didn't cancel classes the first 30 minutes, surely students would be more cautious - possibly skip a class. Univ. Pres. should resign immediately. My heart goes out to the families of the victims, who saw their children excel in school, get admitted to Virg. Tech, and blossom on campus before this tragedy struck. The nation feels your pain.

Speechless, New York, NY (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 2:52 AM)

It's amazing to me all the "experts" that have popped up and this thing isn't even 24 hours old. Let's wait till a proper investigation has occurred before we all jump to conclusions. I do believe that the relegation of God to the back burner - or even worse - Him being dismissed altogether - has impacted our world in terrible ways. And it will only get worse as time goes along. I believe this tragic event is a reflection of our need to bring God back into our culture.

Linda, Matthews, NC (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 4:06 AM)

Personally, I always thought al-Quaeda was wasting its time and energy. Left alone, we Americans will kill ourselves with the kind of relentless efficiency they can only dream of. When will we have had enough of this?

Christi, Houston, Texas (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 4:49 AM)

I just want to repeat a particularly poignant point by someone: There are a lot of ways to react violently when you are very angry, but few that mean you can kill 22 people within a few minutes. That way should not be legal. There is no sensible reason on earth why anyone should want any weapon that automatically self-reloads like the weapon used in VA. The only purpose is the thrill of kill-kill-kill-kill when, if one had to stop and reload, there might be moment to pause, realize what you've done, and stop. Time to put the next quarter in.

Natasha, Brooklyn, NY (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 5:18 AM)

You people who say "if everyone had been armed, this wouldn't have happened" remind me of the scene in the movie "A Christmas Story" where Ralphie is daydreaming about protecting the family with his new BB gun. You're revealing the cherished fantasies of your inner child.

Stuart E Thiel, Chicago, Illinois (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 6:13 AM)

As a college professor for 18 years, I am horrified by the tragedy at Virginia Tech. 2 hours went by between the first 2 killings and the mass killing of all those defenseless students in the classroom. I wonder if the university was engaged in damage control in those 2 hours when it should have closed down the school, notified the media and the students of a loose gunman on campus, and acted with common sense. If I were the University President or the police chief, I could not live with myself for such irresponsible decision making that led directly to the deaths of all those students. But I know all too well how university officials operate: Deny responsibility, obfuscate, and engage in damage control at the expense of protecting students from harm. A bothersome aspect of this case is the dismissive labeling of the first 2 killings at the dorm as a "domestic dispute." This may have been one key factor in the decision by police and university officials to assume that an armed gunman loose on campus presented no danger to other people if he had already shot the person who may have rejected him. An armed and dangerous gunman becomes no less dangerous after he has killed his estranged girlfriend, if that is indeed what happened at the dorm. Is it not sad that the school was not shut down immediately after what was perceived as a domestic dispute? Doesn't that minimize the tragedy of the first two killings? The fact that the first 2 killings may have involved an estranged and vindictive boyfriend is the question of what police and school officials knew about the woman student being stalked and threatened by this gunman prior to the shootings and any precautions thay may have taken, if any. A woman being stalked by an estranged boyfriend often knows one sure place he can find her and kill her: at work and at school. This generally represents a danger not only to the woman but to anyone who happens to be present when the estranged boyfriend shows up to confront and kill her. The trail of email notifications are a sad commentary on the univesity administration's poor judgment. In a state of emergency and crisis, how many people have access to their email? Moreover, the emails fail to communicate the highly dangerous aspect of the day's events and fail to state any facts that would be useful for students to make their own decisions such as the fact that 2 students had been killed at the dormitory. I would suggest placing the University President and the police chief on a leave of absence pending an investigation into their conduct or absence of responsible actions in this case that resulted in so many deaths of the very students they are supposed to protect from harm.

Rosie Lamma, Vancouver, Washington (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 7:28 AM)

Rodney, Lake Charles, and Pam, San Pedro -- Exactly right. When a 5-year-old kills a 3-year-old, it's tough to say the parent's gun had nothing to do with it. When a child sitting in her own living room is killed randomly in a drive-by shooting, it's tough to say guns had nothing to do with it. When 30 people are killed by a crazed gunman, it's tough to say that guns had nothing to do with it. Tucker Carlson said this morning that maybe you just can't control crazy people. All the more reason not to give everyone easy access to guns. Legal or illegal, makes no difference.

Bonnie, Madison, Wisconsin (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 8:12 AM)

I come from Europe. Could anyone please explain to me how on earth a kid can have or buy a gun??? It is beyond my understanding. And why this things always happen in the great USA????

ana martinez, Ramales, cantabria,spain (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 9:48 AM)

How many of these campus shootings have we had in the last 40 years? And how many foreigners have committed them? America's gun laws are fine, for "AMERICANS". But when we open the door to allow these foreigners into this country and give them "OUR RIGHTS". Somethings wrong. But Oh, If we don't allow them our rights, thats "PROFILING or OFFENSIVE". Well, I hate to tell you this, But if we would have "Looked" or "Profiled", maybe even "Offended this foreigner. 32 people would be alive today.

Dan, St. Louis, Mo. (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 10:22 AM)

To the students at Virginia Tech College. It would be easy for me to say that i understand how you feel, but then that'd be an understatement. It would be just as easy to say i send you my condolences, (which i do), but it'd be another email from someone you don't know. But, i would like to say this, i am sorry that this has happened upon you all. I think tragedy is never anything easy nor is it something that takes a day to get over. I feel for all those affected and family and friends who've have had their opportunity to bid farewell and long lasting love and peace to these students who were killed. Rest assured, no one, and i mean no one expects you all to wake up each morning with a smile on your face. Im sure the rest of the country would join me in saying to take your time, utilize every service provided to aid you in your most recent worst of times. Pray and pray hard. And God be with you.

Janine (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 10:23 AM)

While I actually agree with his position on CCW, Dr Duke from Hartford does seem a bit on the xenophobic side since the shooter, rather than the "person of interest" in this instance is from South Korea. Or do we all look alike, since the cops did cuff and detain several such persons during the event? Maybe the shooter had some toothpaste on him so Dr Duk(e) perhaps thinks that a communist plot to fluoridate water was part of the plan? Perhaps English majors should be put on the watch list and their toothpaste licensed? Seriously, college campuses of that size are essentially small cities and "locking-down" applies to prisons and K-12 schools. Or is it like when I was in high school where community colleges were referred to as "high-schools with ashtrays"? You don't lock down a city because of one murder in one neighborhood, but perhaps we should have loudspeakers on the corners and surveillance on everybod and maybe imbed RF locator chips in students upon matriculation. Dr Duke wants us to perhaps adopt those aspects of communist society of which we were afraid during the Cold War. It is sad how prison "doc-block" jargon only applies to K-12 schools which sends an interesting penal message to the student-inmates.

John Doe Seattle Wash (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 10:46 AM)

We have licensing and laws for things that can do damage BY ACCIDENT -- e.g., cars. You can't driive a Formula One rocket car to work, you can't drive a gold cart on the interstate - there may be an accident, something MIGHT get damaged. A gun has no purpose except to damage something. Even if it's just target practice, the purpose of the gun is to put a hole in the target. But we can't regulate guns in any meaningful and comprehensive way?

Patti Gee (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 11:03 AM)

When will Americans wake up to the fact that we need gun control in this country! No one is mentioning the fact that this young man had no problem getting weapons that he should not have been allowed to purchase. We are so afraid of "terrorists" when we should be cleaning up our own act and then maybe we would have more respect in the world and not be the target of terrorism, foreign or domestic.

Marvine Stamatakis (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 11:20 AM)

Dan, St. Louis, Mo - As I stated earlier, I just knew immigration would come into this. Dan, please tell me where your ancestors came from, or are you Native American? It is my understanding, not that "it matters", that the murderer was here legally, as a "resident alien". P stop with your hate speech against immigrants, it's unfair and unjustified!! More Americans deaths result from people owning caches of weapons, owned by American citizens born here, who are irresponsible when safeguarding them. So please stop with the "immigration rhetoric". Bonnie, you are absolutely correct!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 11:20 AM)

ana martinez, Ramales, cantabria,spain - Sadly, our gun control laws in this country are either hampered by the far right and the NRA, and in some places, non-existent. There are no gun control laws against assault weapons or machine clips in Virginia period. When someone can walk into a "Big 5 Sporting Goods" and purchase any weapon just for the hell of it to add to their existing collection of dozens of the like, oh and wait a very short time for a background check, it's wrong. The NRA is so irresponsible with its "attraction" literature and millions of dollars on promoting or either violating or circumventing gun control laws, I find it incomprehensible. This is NOT what the Second Amendment to the Constitution was designed for. And anyone who says otherwise prove it!! Owning dozens of hand guns, pistols, semi-automatic hand guns, assault rifles, etc. are in no way shape or form what our founding fathers had in mind when granting us the right to bear arms!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 11:33 AM)

Statement from the NRA today regarding this horrific tragedy: "Consider the person not the gun". Period, end of statement, end of discussion. This is the mindset of the NRA, in conjunction with their irresponsible promoting of breaking and/or circumventing existing gun control laws. In addition to spending millions in their attempts to "attract" millions of new multi-gun owners. The complete lack of sympathy from the NRA further proves they could care less about this horrific mass murder, or any other one for that matter!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 11:36 AM)

I'm sitting here in Italy, an American, watching the tube in disbelief...but not disbelief. Why is everyone so shocked that it happened...something this big on a campus finally happened? All I can add is that wherever I went today in the city I live in, my Italian friends and acquaintances expressed concern. This does touch everyone, because it is an expression of the dark side of the human condition, not because the shooter was a student, or Asian, or on a visa, or any other stupid reason to blame outsiders. Can anyone say 'Timothy McVeigh'? Or have we forgotten him?

Edi D, Verona Italy (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 11:56 AM)

I was just wondering, how effective was it sending warnings throughout campuis via email? Not all ar in front of a PC during the time of the shooting, why wasn't a public address system used instead. In my opinion, if the PA system was utilized people could have responded quicker in terms of barricading themselves in classrooms, dorms or what have you. People can't receive these email warnings when their walking from one classroom to another or from one building to another. Just my two cents worth.

Eric Lara (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 12:11 PM)

Next >>

SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

Your name, city and state (John Doe, Seattle, Wash.):

Your e-mail address (jdoe@msnbc.com):

Your website (it's okay if you don't have one):

Remember me? (We'll keep it private) Remember me?

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=152326

More News Hole

Recent Posts:

Archives:

Categories:

The Essentials

Syndicate This Site

Add The News Hole to your news reader:

ABOUT THE NEWS HOLE