'Please Stay Put'

Posted: Monday, April 16, 2007 3:45 PM by Countdown

BLACKSBURG, Va. (AP) -- Virginia Tech students and an employee say the first e-mail warning they got from the university about the shooting rampage came more than two hours after the first shots were fired -- by which time the gunman had struck again.

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The ~~five~~ six emails sent to students today at Virginia Tech, in sequential order...

----- Forwarded message from Unirel@vt.edu -----
     Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 09:26:24 -0400
    From: Unirel@vt.edu
Reply-To: Unirel@vt.edu
Subject: Shooting on campus.
       To: Multiple recipients <LISTSERV@LISTSERV.VT.EDU>

A shooting incident occurred at West Amber Johnston earlier this morning.
Police are on the scene and are investigating.

The university community is urged to be cautious and are asked to contact Virginia Tech Police if you observe anything suspicious or with information on the case. Contact Virginia Tech Police at 231-6411

Stay attuned to the www.vt.edu. We will post as soon as we have more
information.

----- Forwarded message from Unirel@vt.edu -----
    Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 09:50:07 -0400
    From: Unirel@vt.edu
Reply-To: Unirel@vt.edu
Subject: PLease stay put
      To: Multiple recipients <LISTSERV@LISTSERV.VT.EDU>

A gunman is loose on campus. Stay in buildings until further notice. Stay away from all windows

----- Forwarded message from Unirel@vt.edu -----
    Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 10:16:40 -0400
    From: Unirel@vt.edu
Reply-To: Unirel@vt.edu
Subject: All Classes Canceled; Stay where you are
      To: Multiple recipients <LISTSERV@LISTSERV.VT.EDU>

Virginia Tech has canceled all classes. Those on campus are asked to remain where there are, lock their doors and stay away from windows. Persons off campus are asked not to come to campus.

----- Forwarded message from Unirel@vt.edu -----
    Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 10:52:45 -0400
    From: Unirel@vt.edu
Reply-To: Unirel@vt.edu
Subject: Second Shooting Reported; Police have one gunman in custody
      To: Multiple recipients <LISTSERV@LISTSERV.VT.EDU>

In addition to an earlier shooting today in West Ambler Johnston, there has been a multiple shooting with multiple victims in Norris Hall.

Police and EMS are on the scene.

Police have one shooter in custody and as part of routine police procedure, they continue to search for a second shooter.

All people in university buildings are required to stay inside until further notice.

All entrances to campus are closed.

----- Forwarded message from Unirel@vt.edu -----
    Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2007 12:41:44 -0400
    From: Unirel@vt.edu
Reply-To: Unirel@vt.edu
Subject: Statement by President Charles W. Steger
      To: Multiple recipients <LISTSERV@LISTSERV.VT.EDU>

Shooting at Virginia Tech / Statement by President Charles W. Steger

The university was struck today with a tragedy of monumental proportions. There were two shootings on campus. In each case, there were fatalities. The university is shocked and horrified that this would befall our campus. I want to extend my deepest, sincerest and most profound sympathies to the families of these victims which include students There are 22 confirmed deaths.

We currently are in the process of notifying families of victims. The Virginia Tech Police are being assisted by numerous other jurisdictions. Crime scenes are being investigated by the FBI, University Police, and State Police. We continue to work to identify the victims impacted by this tragedy. I cannot begin to covey my own personal sense of loss over this senselessness of such an incomprehensible and heinous act The university will immediately set up counseling centers. So far centers have been identified in Ambler Johnson and the Cook Counseling Center to work with our campus community and families.

Here are some of the facts we know:

At about 7:15 a.m. this morning a 911 call came to the University Police Department concerning an event in West Amber Johnston Hall. There were multiple shooting victims. While in the process of investigating, about two hours later
the university received reports of a shooting in Norris Hall. The police immediately responded. Victims have been transported to various hospitals in the immediate area in the region to receive emergency treatment.

We will proceed to contact the families of victims as identities are available.

All classes are cancelled and the university is closed for the remainder for the today. The university will open tomorrow at 8 a.m. but classes will be cancelled on Tuesday. The police are currently staging the release of people from campus buildings.

Families wishing to reunite with the students are suggested to meet at the Inn at Virginia Tech. We are making plans for a convocation tomorrow (Tuesday) at noon at Cassell Coliseum for the university community to come together to begin to deal with the tragedy.

------

TEXT OF LATEST EMAIL SENT OUT TO ALL VIRGINIA TECH STUDENTS FROM UNIVERSITY OFFICIALS:

Virginia Tech remains closed on Monday, April 16, 2007. Vehicular entrances to campus are severely restricted to essential personnel only. Additional security remains on campus as the investigation continues.

Counseling assistance for students in available at West Ambler Johnston and McComas Hall until 9 p.m. tonight. Students are encouraged to utilize these services. Counseling for faculty and staff is available at the Bowman Room in the Merriman Center (athletic complex). Student may also be together at the Old Dominion Ballroom at Squires Student Center.

The university will also close on Tuesday, April 17. Essential personal are to report for work. Classes will be canceled.

A public gathering will be held Tuesday, April 17 at Cassell Coliseum at 2 p.m. (a time change from the originally scheduled 10 a.m. gathering).

All students are urged to contact their parents as soon as possible to let them know individuals are safe.

Students, faculty, and staff who may have any information related to the incident at West Amber Johnston Hall and Norris Hall are encouraged to go to the Blacksburg Police Department to make statements, or call 540-231-TIPP (8477), or 231-6411

Parents with concerns are asked to call the Dean of Students Office at 540-231-3787.

Individuals injured in the two shootings have been taken to area hospitals.

EMAIL THIS

Comments

Rodney Mantia...Where did I say keep quiet? You did read where I am for gun control...I always have been for gun control...I have never owned a gun...I have never fired a gun...I detest the NRA...I detest that gun control is a forgotten issue...But can you really blame the NRA for a 23 year old student snapping? It's not that easy Rodney. I wish it was solely the NRA's fault...I wish no one had guns...If you want to secure your home, get a security system...Rodney, Vent...Lash out...Be angry...Petition the government...Use your anger in a positive way...My post said that...But blame the student...that was my point...I agree with everything you said, but the murderer is the one to be held accountable...The argument if he didn't have access to guns, he couldn't have killed anyone, doesn't hold up anymore. Yes, our country is obsessed with the idea that only criminals have guns...Arm yourself...I live in a country town full of hunters...Most have small arsenals at home...but they haven't snapped...Will they? My other point is can you or anyone else predict when someone will implode? Most gun owners respect their guns and owning them...Do I agree with them? No...But the founders of this country, for better or worse, were gun owners...the Revolution was fought with guns...Washington and the Boys all had guns, right or wrong...the Anti-Gun movement after the Revolution hated the second amendment...The Constitution barely passed...I agree with the anti-gun movement. I am a member...But over 200 hundred years later, the country is still obsessed with guns...I hate that fact...My point, which you missed, is only a small fraction of people kill...I believe the USA is one of the top five countries in the world in death by guns, but it isn't the majority of gun owners...I have written to the government in support of the Brady Bill, to ban assault weapons...But laws and bans will not eliminate gun violence. Did anyone force that student to buy a gun?...The person snapped...Did Jeffrey Dahmer kill anyone with a gun? Timothy McVeigh?....Who can predict who is insane? People who snap will find a means to kill besides guns...Again, you missed my point...Will laws really stop a 23 year old student from killing? If so, lets start passing laws every day. I will never own a gun...I will never shoot a gun. I will keep campaigning for stronger gun control laws...but guns are only one part of the problem...how can a student feel life is meaningless? Does a gun culture cause that? Gun culture creates a world where violence is way to solve problems, no doubt...That needs to change. But laws will not keep damaged people from killing in one form or another...Rage on Rodney...my post wasn't about silence...my post was about blaming the person responsible...I will always detest the NRA...the gun culture...but both are only parts of a much larger problem...

George, Hammonton, New Jersey (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 12:28 PM)

This is false.None of the guns used in the massacre that we can so far see was ever covered by the 'Assault Weapons Ban'Act.They are handguns.They would not have been impacted with or without a ban.It is as illogical to blame 'NRAs' and 'Republicans'as it is 'Bush'.Again,how many gangs now operating in the US,who have murdered thousands of Americans in just the last year are ''Republicans''or members of the NRA? All during the term of the Assault-weapons ban,in a period extending from 1999-2006 in a singular area of South Central Los Angeles,33 people in a given month[to more closely match the victims of the VT tragedy]were killed by automatic weapons.The victims were nearly universally innocent and not members of rival gangs.Americans are in no mood to surrender gun rights[and yes,this goes for Democrats as well.Bear in mind that Virginias own senator,Webb,was recently involved in a gun mess of his own], that they fully know that police will allow criminals to retain,if for no other reason that they are outnumbered by these criminals,who can easily get their weapons and ammo through illegal means.Again,if one seeks to have any sort of impact on the illegal arms trade,then they must turn to the borders in an effort to reduce the sheer numbers of illegal arms entering the country every day.So far,none of the frontrunners for president has shown the stomach to lead the way in this direction.

Lee Holmes (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 12:42 PM)

Rosie Lamma, Vancouver, Washington - Wow, and thank you so much for taking such time and putting such thought in your writing. Your insight is obviously tremendous based on your experience. Thank you so much for sharing this, as it has left me speechless, and with so much to think about.....God Bless....

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 1:02 PM)

Natasha, Brooklyn, NY - Brilliantly stated, now try telling that to the multi-owner gun-loving zealots; in addition to the NRA who teaches this through its "Avoid Gun Control Laws 101" and its irresponsible literature. Thousands of people purchase guns not for protection or hunting, but simply because they love guns!! These people absolutely refuse to step up to the plate and admit yes, "I love guns"!! Again, our Constitution’s Second Amendment was in no way, shape or form designed for irresponsible gun TYPE purchases such as those used in yesterday's horrific mass murder, nor the irresponsible ownership demonstrated by a vast number of people in our society today.

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 1:48 PM)

Talk about 20/20 hindsight. How on earth could any reasonable authority have guessed that there was going to be a second rampage hours after the first? Most domestic violence murders, workplace shootings and school shootings are single, isolated incidents, they don't usually, ( isn't it horrible that we have enough of these incidents to be able to trend them and say 'usually'?), continue to another site over a gap in time. There were undoubtedly any number of interventions at any number of points that could have prevented this, all of which we will be able to see now, looking back. But at the time, with sketchy reports and available information, I don't think it was an unreasonable assumption that what turned out to be the first shootings were the end of it. Yeah, a crystal ball would have helped a lot. Short of that, do we really want to become such a militarist/police state that even our educators have to live with a siege mentality? We're running way behind the curve in prevention of this sort of thing. Police/military intervention is back-end, crisis management, it shouldn't have gotten to that point.--A couple of points that could have been bottlenecks and prevented this: This behavior doesn't just pop out of nowhere, he had referrals to mental health professionals, that should have been addressed and followed up on. He had a high risk profile- young, male, socially isolated. He was a resident alien, he wasn't legally able to purchase a gun at all and wouldn't have been able to if all sales were tracked. The fact that the serial numbers were filed off shows that it would have been an illegal purchase even for someone who was legally able to buy them and whoever sold them to him was shady and had things to hide, again, not an issue if waiting periods, private purchases and background checks were tracked. Hindsight should show us to invest in preventing these tragedys on a personal level, not react on an institutional level by throwing more money at having more gunmen and SWAT teams on standby to shoot them after it's started.

Shandy Western Oregon (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 2:45 PM)

One major problem that is overlooked in any of these discussions is how crazy people are allowed to roam our society at will. Time and time again seriously disturbed individuals are ignored and left to their own devices and tragedy ensues. (I blame Thomas Szasz and Ronald Reagan for encouraging this trend, but that's another topic.) This kid was clearly disturbed and not a normal functioning member of the university, but other than someone recommending he get counseling what was done?

Jack, Scottsdale, AZ (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 3:17 PM)

My heart goes out to all the family members who, like myself, a mother of 3 teenage boys aged 13-18, wish a safe and happy future for my children. I'm one of those people that tragedies like this make me sick. I could care less about the NRA and their rights to possess guns. I'm sorry that you feel your rights are being violated, but the fact remains that, like this shooter, there will always be people who misuse and abuse rights and laws. There are no perfect people anywhere. So, all the blamers can blame all they want. People will be people. All I know is,fact,I could go a few miles from my house as well as any kid, and buy a handgun within minutes,even though they are outlawed in this city. I've walked down the street in gang infested neighborhoods and had bullets fly so close past my head I heard the swoosh. Several years back the police locked down a project and raided every unit. You rights activist shot off your mouths so much that it made a lot of front pages for a long time. Obviously you missed the part about the 300+ confiscated guns. Shutup, there is no gun control. If you believe there is, then you should live were I live. You should see what I've seen. There are 12 year old kids on our streets with guns. Every time I walk into a game store or video store, the walls are littered with 80% blood bordellos and serial killer movies. All of us parents try to protect our kids from these things,it's to the point where I find it hard to establish and maintain control over what my kids are kids exposed to. Like one of millions of single mothers in this country, it is just too much and too far exposed to our kids for me to handle. By the way, the murder rate surrounding the gang, drug and violence infested project and this city did go way down because shortly after that the no handgun law was put in place. If people can't get guns, then people can't kill with them. It's as simple as that. My kids have a right to feel safe and know that we, the adults, are taking actions to protect them. 80% of the schools here have metal detectors at the entrances. My kids have a right to feel safe knowing that some adult is not crying about their right to own a gun. My kids are exposed to so much violence in their daily lives, and I've worked extremely hard to raise them to appreciate the preciousness of our lives, that I know they would laugh at you and spit in your NRA eyes. What about mine and there rights? They have the right to go to school knowing some loony on a suicidal or gang revenge mission is not going to walk in out of the blue and blow them all away. Your 2nd amendment rights are extremely outdated. That was before gangs, videogames and serial killer movies littered our daily lives. I agree with the person who said we should be teaching our children about cultures, traditions, and more spiritual (I'm don't have one god, but know spiritual and cultural understanding and appreciation is one key that our kids are subject to minimal exposure on). Maybe you could spend more of your NRA time and all that money on something more productive, cultural, and educational. Ways to teach our kids more efficient non-violent ways of handling tough situations. I highly doubt the solution is crying over the right to own a gun. Walked into a video or game store lately? Gone to a movie lately? Watched the news lately? We have just as much a right to a safe and happy environment as you do to owning a gun. but the guns that you feel you have so much right to are, by far, are outweighted in usage for violent acts, then the purpose you NRA folks intended. So, just stop it, because, you may think your losing your rights, but they fact is we all lose by your ignorance. Tragedies like these are just plain scary. We have the right to never imagine or experience the hurt of losing our children as victims.

Scared Sick, Chicago, IL (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 3:37 PM)

Lee Holmes - Your statement, "This is false.None of the guns used in the massacre that we can so far see was ever covered by the 'Assault Weapons Ban'Act" is FALSE!! One of the guns used in the mass murder yesterday was covered under the anti-assault weapons ban until two years ago; when Bush and the GOP led Congress let the ban lapse!! Wake up Lee and smell the BS Lee!! The vast majority of Americans have smelt George W. Bush’s BS for years now!! As I stated earlier, is this solely his fault or that of the GOP led Congress? No and that statement would be as idiotic and similar to those off the “right-wing radar scale” who post here, i.e. “it’s ALL Bill Clinton’s fault – although none of what they post “IS” Bill Clinton’s fault, no matter what the definition of “is” “is”!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 4:00 PM)

Pam, Rodney, George all of you have stolen my thunder.I really can't add anything of substance here. It's a damn shame. Remember as bad as it was in Blacksburg yesterday that would be a good day in Baghdad. BTW Pam feel free to use any of my zingers anytime you desire my friend. Have you noticed that Larry doesn't return any of my posts directed at him?

Bill Rochester NY (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 5:11 PM)

PAM:The 9MM pistol IS NOT covered by the Assault Weapons Ban.It is a legal handgun in Virginia and many states where the shooter could have purchased such a weapon.Indeed,it was Virginia Senator Webbs staffer who had Webbs pistol which was a 9MM!Very possibly the same make as the VT shooters.Neither is the .22 automatic on the AWB list.Since the 1980s,when the European 9MM appeared regularly in US gunstores,you have been legally allowed to own this weapon up to and including the 1990s-present-day.These two weapons are cited[NBC,CNN,FOX,] as the main handguns used in the VT rampage.Get your facts straight.And for the rest: Wikipedia:The Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994-The 'Assault Weapons Ban'' or AWB complete with list of banned weapons,none of which has been determined to have been used in the VT shootings.

Lee Holmes (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 5:11 PM)

PS: Lee Holmes - These types of weapons, which you state are not banned, (but one was until two years ago) most certainly should be banned. They serve no purpose but to cause death and mass murder as we saw yesterday. They are not used to "protect one's home and family", nor for hunting. Again, when our Constitution was written, the Second Amendment was not designed for people to own caches of weapons in no way needed or required, and in particular, weapons like these. In addition, a "Big 5 Sporting Goods" was certainly not envisioned; and when I took my daughters there to buy sports equipment and toys as young girls, I was appalled to discover guns were sold there. As children ran around the store; including mine, looking for toys, shoes and other innocent things they wanted, they certainly should not have had to be greeted by a "cabinet of death", i.e. a large variety of guns!! I stopped shopping there immediately when they stumbled across such a "cabinet of death" and asked me what “they” were. These weapons must be banned nationwide; and if not, why not? The NRA should back responsible gun control laws, in lieu of teaching "How to Avoid Gun Control Laws 101"; in addition to immediately stop spending millions of dollars in irresponsible advertising, which advocates the purchase of weapons for "no reason other than the hell of owing them". Additionally, the NRA spends millions in funding anti-gun control legislation of ALL types. The NRA is as stubborn as George W. Bush!! In addition to being as arrogant, incoherent and irresponsible in their approach to guns. I find this both incomprehensible!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 5:19 PM)

PAM is again being dishonest.An increasingly dubious trait.The 'mindset'of the NRA regarding this tragedy may be more accurately found here at the offices of the NRAs DC legislative headquarters itself.[www.nraila.org],which carries the following on their websites masthead: From The President of the National Rifle Association: ''The NRA joins the entire country in expressing our deepest sympathies to the families of Virginia Tech University and everyone else affected by this horrible tragedy.Our thoughts and prayers are with the families'' A somewhat differant take than PAMS,but then it is because it is more honest.

Lee Holmes (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 6:00 PM)

PAM-Neither of the weapons cited by the FBI as belonging to the VT shooter has ever been banned.They most certainly are used to 'protect home and family'and media articles and reports from every state in America prove it.Define 'cache'.Perhaps a 'Big 5'was not 'envisioned'but there was a time I remember clearly when high-powered rifles such as the Mannlicher-Carcano used to kill JFK could be mail- purchased from an ad on the back of a comic book for 12.95$ producing no ID.I could walk into any surplus store no questions asked and purchase a German-made machine gun complete with ammo.The only time that the USSC has ever stepped into the gun debate was in the 1935 MILLER decision where it was silent on whether or not the 2nd applied to 'individual'gun ownership.It only adressed the types of guns one could own that were 'minimally consistant'with the prevailing technology of the age.That means no Rev-War muskets or muzzle-loaders.Revolvers and bolt-action rifles,later expanded to clip-loading pistols and rifles were allowed until the 1994 act which did not address automatic pistols,going after not simply the actual mechanics of the 'assault rifle' types but their cosmetic appearence which cost the Democrats both houses of Congress in the 1994 election and Gore the presidency in 2000.[Gore could have had his own Tennessee and WVA in a trice which would have cemented his victory even with Florida.But he chose in a moderated CNN debate to go after 'all handguns',which drove southern voters and union gun-owners away].The Democrats congresses shaky majority includes solid Democrat pro-gun legislators including Schuler,Tester,Webb,Casey,Conrad,and Reid.Any amount of further constriction on the portion of Democrats regarding lawful gun ownership and they will lose the presidency and at least one house of Congress.In a perfect world,there would be no-one with guns.However,as the criminals have even more than their share[or'caches'if you prefer],I will most certainly keep mine,observing each and every safety rule learned in the military and law enforcement-sanctioned training,hope it will collect dust except for safe practice at a range,but use it should need arise that will be for the very specific purpose of protecting me and mine.

Lee Holmes (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 6:42 PM)

I am a Hokie. Got the t-shirts. And the ballcaps. And the pennants, ticket stubs, pocket schedules, sweatshirts, license plate, bumper stickers, magazine covers and framed diploma to prove it. Now, don't get me wrong -- I'm not one of those superfans with vehicles and domiciles drenched in maroon and orange, VT logos pointing every which way, plastic-wrapped programs from the 1966 Sun Bowl, vats of maroon face-paint, et cetera, et cetera. I've seen those cars, those houses, those faces. Those people aren't well. Me, I'm a simple alumnus, a Hokie citizen in the Hokie Nation, and a patriotic one at that. I didn't know much about Virginia Tech -- and absolutely nothing about football -- before I went to Virginia Tech. My first choice was a small but well-regarded technical college on the coast of Florida -- they even gave me a scholarship! Sun and science was a lot for me to forego, so the plan was to go to Tech for a couple of years and transfer down to my choice school. The best laid plans are usually interrupted. During my first semester, I went to a football game. I was introduced to rafting on the New River. I started hiking around Dragontooth, high up in the Alleghenies. I successfully completed the first of many Spanish courses, with some Physics and Math and Lit. A freshman became a sophomore, then a junior, and I found myself still lodging on the idyllic campus spread across the verdant valley in Southwest Virginia, issuing hellos to familiar professors. I was falling in love. Virginia Tech is a beautiful place, an inspiring place, a place of hallowed Hokie Stone on every edifice and wildly fervent fandom on every autumn Saturday. It is a beloved and special place, not just a sprawling university but a home, a comfort zone, a favorite chair. As a naive freshman with Florida dreams, I had no idea what I was in for. As a marginally wiser adult, I now see how fortunate I have been. I get to be a Hokie. I can claim that beautiful, beautiful place, a venerable institution which is an inseparable part of my identity. And now the infamy. One man, a disturbed young man, with two guns, too much ammo and too little something has taken the name of Virginia Tech and added the word "Massacre." He will present an image to the world of Virginia Tech that is strikingly far from reality. But the truth will out. What Virginia Tech truly is will out. To be a Hokie is more than jumping up and down while "Enter Sandman" rocks Lane Stadium. It is more than studying against a tree by the Duck Pond, or rafting the New River, or acing the Astrophysics test, or knowing all the derogatorily cute names for the various dining halls, or playing pool in Squires or Friday nights imbibing at the Hokie House. It is more than wearing the VT hat or caravaning to another bowl game or knowing the words to "Tech Triumph." It's about being in Wisconsin or Key West or Jamaica and noticing a shred of maroon and that familiar square-root-of-one and having an instant friend. It's about the pride of the diploma, about the pride of being part of the growth, about the pride of walking the same halls as present and future CEOs and patent-holders and Dr. Nikki Giovanni and Frank Beamer. It's about community and goodness and excellence, about representing the university in all things, about acknowledging the unspeakable horrors of 16 April 2007 and helping Hokies heal. We are the Hokie Nation. We are Virginia Tech. Ut Prosim; That I May Serve.

Jason S Rufner, Reston, VA (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 7:44 PM)

Lee Holmes - WRONG!! You state, "A somewhat differant take than PAMS"!! Not just Pam's Lee, the majority of every other person on this blog!! I should have continued to abstain from responding to you. Your posts are incoherent. Do you scan multiple documents at once, transfer them to Microsoft Word, then copy and paste them in no order whatsoever. It's the only scenario that makes any sense from reading your incoherent and factually incorrect statements!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 9:25 PM)

Lee Holmes - Again Lee, I should not even have begun to enter into dialogue with you. It has been reported over and over again that the assault weapon he used was banned until two years ago, when Bush and the GOP led Congress allowed the ban to lapse. Just like your President Carter scenario, which I proved you wrong over and over again with historical quotes from "historians" and back up, you still refused to see the truth. Just like then, you can state the weapon was "never banned" until you are blue in the face; however, it is factually incorrect and you are wrong.

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 9:31 PM)

Lee Holmes - Nice try Lee!! The statement you quote by the NRA came hours after their initial statement and after MUCH criticism. Study up, and again NICE TRY!! I guess their highly paid public relations team finally got their act together and promptly realized they were being nationally slammed!! I am not dishonest, nor do I lie about the records of past presidents simply because "I do no like them" as you have and continue to do. Again, nice try!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Tuesday, April 17, 2007 10:49 PM)

Bill of Rochester.. loved your zinger. I did respond but I guess the countdown police were protecting your feelings. Pammmie, feel free to use this zinger, if Charleston is where the tube is inserted for the US enema, then Rochester is what comes out when the tube is removed. Touche

Larry Charleston, SC (Sent Wednesday, April 18, 2007 8:45 AM)

Yes, yes, the answer is to take all the guns from U.S. CITIZENS, and then, like England, we can experience unprecedented increases in crime. Let's not address these rediculous gun free VICTIM zones. face it, that's what they are. Anyone that wants a human shooting gallery, has access to state sponsored facilities all over the country. This tradgedy is yet another example that you CANNOT depend on someone else to protect you. Not the police, or the government. YOU and your contitutional right to bear arms are your only protection.

Claton Pearl Palm Bay, FL (Sent Wednesday, April 18, 2007 12:05 PM)

Mr. Lee Holmes - As I have repeatedly stated, one of the weapons used in the mass murder at Virginia Tech was previously banned under the "Federal Assault-Weapons Ban", enacted in 1994, AND that ban was allowed to expire in 2004, which I have also previously and repeatedly stated. Under this "ban" that was allowed to lapse, "magazines were limited to ten (10) rounds". You have called me a liar, dishonest and stated my dishonesty is an "increasingly dubious trait". Ok Mr. Holmes, following describes the weapons used in the tragedy at Virginia Tech. WEAPON 1: Glock 19, Caliber: 9x19mm (9mm luger), Magazine Capacity: 15 rounds; WEAPON 2: Walther P22, Caliber: .22 Long Rifle (.22LR), Magazine Capacity: 10 rounds. Well Mr. Holmes, now that we have determined it is "YOU" who has been dishonest; I anxiously await your apology. Weapon #1 used has a magazine capacity of fifteen (15) rounds and the second weapon used has a capacity of ten (10) rounds. Now that the "facts" are laid out for you, and are crystal clear, it is apparent I was in no way dishonest. "Weapon #1's "magazine capacity is 15 rounds” or five more than the lapsed “Federal Assault-Weapons Ban”. I once again repeat my factual claim. One of the weapons used in this horrific mass murder WAS previously covered under the "Federal Assault-Weapons Ban”, which Bush and his GOP-led Congress allowed to lapse. I anxiously await your apology for calling me dishonest and a liar. I never once stated either weapon was "currently banned”; but consistently and repeatedly stated one of the weapons was previously banned and the ban was allowed to lapse. This is unmistakably summarized for you here.

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Wednesday, April 18, 2007 2:32 PM)

Why can't we put some blame where it is due, squarely on the college administration. They were repeatedly warned of this nutcase, new he was on anti depressants and was sent to a mental institution, but because of political correctness or afrair of hurting his feelings, or afraid to do anything because they might be called a racist or bigot, they did nothing. It appears professors and fellow students complained numerous times with no response from the school. Like I said many times before, bad people do bad things. If these people are left unchecked there will be repeat events like this in the future.

Larry Charleston, SC (Sent Wednesday, April 18, 2007 4:19 PM)

Not neccesarily being called racist or bigoted larry. This does reflect poorly on the state of mental health care here in this country. I don't know the laws in S.C. but here in N.Y. a person can only be held in a psych ward for 72 hrs. Anything more requires a court order. Many (most?) homeless people have mental health issues. Yet the institutions where they used to live either no longer exist or will not take them back because there is a) no room or b)the person in question is not considerd a threat as long as they are on they're "meds". Problem being of course un-supervised mental health patients very often don't take their "meds" like they should. How about psychological screening for ALL who want to purchase guns? Especially handguns One more thing the ambulance chasers are going to have a field day with this.

Bill Rochester NY (Sent Wednesday, April 18, 2007 4:57 PM)

Larry a few more things. Don't trash liberals. Remember it was liberals who brought us the weekend! If not for liberals you would not have any students to teach. They would all be working 16 hour days at the textile mill or most likely the poultry plant. Don't worry about hurting my feelings countdown police I can take it. Larry at least proof read your posts before you send them. It is knew not new as in the past tense of to know. Buy a dictionary or use a spell checker if you must. You must be another product of southern schools. Where they refuse to spend money on education and where Intelligent Design or more accurately hocus pocus is the preferred science curriculum.

Bill Rochester NY (Sent Wednesday, April 18, 2007 5:12 PM)

Ok Bill, sorry all schools are not like inner city NY schools, where the drop out rate is nearing 50%. And another thing , if NY is so wonderful ,why does it seem that the entire population of NY is moving to SC. I can't go anywhere without running into some rude , obnoxious New Yorker. And wouldn't you know it, our minor league baseball team is affiliated with the Yankees !

Larry Charleston, SC (Sent Thursday, April 19, 2007 10:32 AM)

And Bill , one more thing. All of the hate on this site is really amazing. Look at what most of these people are saying. Talikg about killing the president, wouldn't be surprised if the next CHO comes from a keithie. People need to lighten up and take their anger to the ballot box and vote for Hillary. I'm sure the smartest woman in the world already has it figured out, just doesn't want to show her plan too early. Simply ask her, she'll tell you what you want to hear.

Larry Charleston, SC (Sent Thursday, April 19, 2007 10:38 AM)

Wow, Pam. I was under the impression that you were a debater of responsibility and rationality. I see from the vast majority of comments here that my prediction has come to fruition, and that the NRA, its' members, and all law-abiding gun owners are being vociferously and vehemently vilified by the "judge all by one" credo. Well. I posted a comment the other day about the total lack of prosecution of firearms law violators, and not one person has responded in any way, pro or con. Has anyone read it? Doubtful, at best. It is my contention that, if public prosecutors would have been actively seeking convictions on these violations, we might not be having these volatile discussions, with all the name-calling, race-baiting, and immigration-bashing. Sigh........if only these laws had been enforced, the distinct possibility that many, if not most, of the gun-wielding criminals of this country would be behind bars for the lengthy, mandatory prison sentences contained within the laws. That said, I leave you foaming-at-the-mouth posters to scream and shout at and berate each other in the name of responsible discussion.....

Darrel In Edinboro, PA (Sent Thursday, April 19, 2007 10:45 AM)

Bill: Ouch. Man I don't agree with Larry on 99 % of what he says but I consider myself very literate and sometimes when I get to typing to fast and want to get a response out forgetting to spell check I misspell some words as quite a few in these blogs do. So when I misspell something please don't get after me. And Bill. I have attended schools in both the North and the South and can tell you, neither has the edge over the other. It all comes down to the individual teacher and the individual student. Some are good and some are bad in all parts of the country.

C A, Tuscaloosa, Al (Sent Thursday, April 19, 2007 3:16 PM)

CA No offense meant to you. You certainly are literate. Your posts show that you are an intelligent , thoughtful person. It was intended for the benefit of "Lawrence" of South Carolina.

Bill Rochester NY (Sent Thursday, April 19, 2007 5:21 PM)

CA No offense meant to you. You certainly are literate. Your posts show that you are an intelligent , thoughtful person. It was intended for the benefit of "Lawrence" of South Carolina.

Bill Rochester NY (Sent Thursday, April 19, 2007 5:23 PM)

I wanted to tell all of the staff and students at v-Tech how proud we are of all you for your Heroisim and Bravery the day Cho turned to terrorisium!Celebrate the lives of the fallen and draw strength from each other and lein on each other!That day you showed the world that you will not stand down and that the future generations that will be running our country is the strongest ever! Please allways respect your fellow students and there different back-rounds that is what being a free American is all about ! One last thing! I know these next days will be very hard Honor each person and allways treat people the way you want to be treated! GODSPEED YOUR IN OUR THOUGHTS AND PRAYERS!

colleen swanson westminister MD (Sent Friday, April 20, 2007 2:07 PM)

"You caused me to do this." I think this statement means alot to me. My name is Karvin Liang. I am a girl. I am Chinese and I was born in New York City. Throughout my entire life, I had suffered racial discrimination and prejudice from these 2 races: the African Americans and the Hispanics.
No, there weren' t any white people that picked on me. I think that is strange.
I just don't know what is wrong with most black people and a few Hispanics that I have met. I mostly have problems with black people. They just wanna start stuff with me for no reason at all. And then they're gonna get really loud with it and start cursing and try to make a big deal out of it, and then, eventually, they're gonna blame it on me like I'm the one that started it. The way how they treated me: they would torture and yell at me with the most offensive racial slurs (about the Chinese race). I would just ignore them. And as much as I try to ignore them, they keep coming after me. And some of them had physically hit me. I really want all this racial discrimination to end. All this racial pain that I had to suffer, I had been ignoring it for more than 5 years from now, I dont know how I was able to bear, the way how I didn't show care. I had gotten picked on and pushed around so bad that I felt like I wanna deal with it and take care of matters in my own hands and do something horrible to solve it. "YOU CAUSED ME TO DO THIS."

I can continue typing, but I wanna stop, because my story may last 10 days for you to finish reading this. Even with a thousand words, I still don’t have enough words to explain how much racial pain I have suffered mentally and emotionally. I had almost suffered too much for a normal person to handle. And I had almost committed suicide because I couldn’t bear too much pain.
I WISH FOR THIS ESSAY TO BE POSTED EVERYWHERE FOR EVERYONE TO SEE.
I could have been the Asian to perform a shootout “before” Seung Hui Cho. Believe me, I have a lot of similarities with this shooter. I am also a loner.

Liang from Chamblee GA (Sent Monday, July 16, 2007 8:38 PM)

Liang from Chamblee GA (Sent Monday, July 16, 2007 8:39 PM)

The period of constantly digging up definite estimates relating to this theme are over.

Free Criminal Background Check (Sent Saturday, December 08, 2007 3:02 PM)

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