ABOUT THE NEWS HOLE

It's the new award-winning blog* from the cast and crew of the award-winning television news hour** "Countdown with Keith Olbermann."

We heard about this whole "blogosphere" business from Tom DeLay, and came to the immediate realization that we too, "needed to become involved" in it.

So here it is. Covering the big news, the small news, medium-sized and irregular, The News Hole strives to bring everything you love or hate about Countdown to the internets.

Your feedback and hate mail is encouraged.

*Countdown's "Best of the Web Awards" 2007
**The News Hole's "Best of the TV Awards" 2006



Live Debate Video / Discussion Thread

Posted: Thursday, April 26, 2007 6:45 PM by Countdown


Click for LIVE VIDEO

Refresh for updates...

7:05 - If you're tracking American Flag lapel pins, it's 3 with, 5 without. Clinton, Obama, and Gravel and Richardson & Dodd are "flagless."

7:10 - Hillary Clinton has answered (for the 400th time, but the first time tonight) the question about her vote for the war. We'll see how many more times it comes up.

7:15 - Kucinich's bill -- HR 1234 - you think he named it so he could finish with the rallying cry "1234, we don't want no stinkin' war"?

7:22 - Sen. Edwards just tried to talk his way out of the $400 haircut with an old anecdote. Gonna take more than that.

7:23 - Note to Sen. Clinton: You just won re-election to the senate by a landslide in a very blue state that voted for John Kerry in the last election. That shoutout to your constituency was wasted airtime.

7:25 - Lot's of "ooh's"  in this control room when Richardson took the "blow-dried candidates" shot at Edwards there, though it seemed like piling on after Edwards had already (sorta) addressed the issue.

7:26 - Dennis Kucinich in response to question about being anti-war before anti-war was cool, claiming that 650,000 Iraqi civilians have died in Iraq - what sounds to be a much higher number than anyone has claimed thus far.

7:28 - Biden gets the first big laugh with a one word answer - can he reassure us he won't be a human "gaffe" machine and restrict his "verbosity" if elected?  "yes."

7:30 - Second big laugh comes from Senator Gravel -- "well how the hell did any of these

7:31 - Never thought the day would come when Senator Clinton would trumpet her time trying to create a universal health care system in this country. Then again, what if, on the night of the first Democratic presidential debate of 2004, we'd told you that Al Gore would win an Oscar for his movie about global warming?

7:40 - That whole "Your model Supreme Court Justice" thing didn't work out the way brian had planned. Probably meant someone the candidate would nominate, not their "fave"

7:42 - We missed it - did that 'show of hands' of candidates who've had guns in the house match up perfectly with the American Flag lapel pin count?
people get here?!"  A lot of people are going to know Mike Gravel's name tomorrow. (Question: how did this guy ever get elected in ALASKA?) He then went on a rant about pre-emptive war with nuclear weapons and we all got a little uncomfortable.

7:50 - We're into the viewer questions now -- countdown to "have you smoked pot?" and "boxers or briefs?"

7:53 - That Gravel is the wackiest potted plant we've ever seen.

7:59 - Those leaving on TV at 8 are probably pretty disappointed in what they got for the first hour. Not much real debate thus far, a whole lot of agreement, and not nearly enough criticism of the administration for the target audience here.

8:01 - Then again, we did learn that Dennis Kucinich lives in a house he bought for $22,500

8:04 - Gravel again on our "important enemies: "We have no important enemies, what we need to do is begin to deal with the rest of the world as equals."

8:07 -- Brian tee's up Rudy Giuliani for his fear-mongering that the Republicans will protect America better than ther Democrats...  Clinton: "this administration has tried to hype the fear."  Dodd: "It's a myth."

8:10 -- Four of eight on the latest 'show of hands' "Is there a Global War on Terror?" That was a test of courage, Kucinich definitely had it.

8:15 - Hillary addresses the war vote for the 2nd time

8:16 - Not a single candidate in the latest 'show of hands' : Do you support Dennis Kucinich's measure to impeach Vice President Dick Cheney. That probably won't go over too well with the base.

8:18 - We're learning more about Kucinich. Lives in a modest house, carries a "pocket constitution". If he says he rides a bicycle to work then it's official... he's "Dave."

8:22 - Mike Gravel says "Terrorism has been with us since the beginning and it will be with us to the end. We're going to be as effective fighting 'terrorism' as we have been fighting drugs."

8:24 - Kucinich takes on Obama, the closest thing to fireworks all night. He's making Obama look like a war-hawk over Iran. Gravel joins in the smackdown.

8:26 - Can't help thinking Gravel stood out tonight in a way that Joe Biden should have.

8:30 - So that's that. It's what you get with eight politicians and 90 minutes, too many people and not enough time.

sigh... stay tuned for the 'spin room' interviews, maybe we'll get some action there.

8: 37 - Joe Biden coming up in a minute

8:40 - Governor Richardson coming up after Biden

8:45 - Chris Dodd coming up next

8:48 - Hillary Clinton is actually out on a stage speaking to supporters already -  after Dodd we'll jump into that

8:51 - Speaking of Hillary, for what it's worth, there were a lot of spouses on that stage after the debate - hers was not.

9:00 - Here come Mike Gravel

9:04 - If this guy challenges Chris to a duel, this will really have come full circle.

(and yes, we're keeping track of the "HA's")

9:11 - Obama's on the same stage Hillary was a while ago, they must have cleared out the Clinton crowd and brought in Obama's.  That lattice-work sure is spiffy.

9:12 - Dennis Kucinich with Joe Scarborough after this.

9:15 -  Wondering what that long awkard pause was all about? Keith's mic died in the middle of Tucker's report - if we had gone to his camera you would have seen him being manhandled by a tech person. Oh well, nice job Tucker.

9:20 -- It was not long ago (early '04 we think) that there was a "find a bride for Dennis Kucinich" thing his campaign was running.  We hooked him up live on Countdown, but apparently it didn't work out. In the meantime, he appears to have done just fine on his own.

9:31 -- ok, the blog team had to run out and smoke - did we miss anything?

9:32 -- Yikes!!  We got back in time to hear Chris say "dickin' around", so I guess we couldn't have missed anything better than that.

9:35 - A live booking war going on between Chris, Keith & Joe for Obama!  It's all in good fun (or is it?)


ok, enough already. Talk amongst yourselves...

MAIN PAGE

Email this EMAIL THIS

Comments

The first questions posed to the candidates, about Reid's speech: none of them gave the most honest answer: The difference between saying "the war is lost" and "And as long as we follow the President's path in Iraq, the war is lost" is incredibly, unignorably, substantially important. Any commentary on the Reid speech, or indeed, any question about it, that excludes not only the point of his speech, but takes from it only four words, excluding a pivotal part of the *very same sentence* is shamefully dishonest.
I agree, Gravel is the only one who's distinguished himself so far
Let's not forget as Edwards just reminded me those men sitting on the Supreme Court are very responsible for G W Bush sitting where he is today. So they should get some of the credit for this mess we are in. Great debate finally the discussion that has been needed for 6 years....
The polls say that 55% of Americans agree with Ried that the war has been lost. Making that statementt will not cause political damage to him as long as there is a scapegoat to hang. bush, cheney, rumdum, ashcroft, ridge, bremer, chertoff, gonzalez, bolton, frist, hastert, mcconnell, cornyn, feith, rice, mccain, wolfowitz, lamebag, coulter, orally, savage, (he's ashamed of his real name) - hey, Ried has scapegoats enough to hang until every lampost is decorated with a retardlican chicken-hawk.
Can no one conceive of taking the money we pay to insurance and pay it to a Univ H.C. instead? B. Richardson seems to drift closest to this.
DUSTIN:So is highlighting the one[''follow the Presidents path'']to the exclusion of the original Reid statement that did not mention ''following the presidents path''.This neat bit of revisionism was performed to distance Reid from the words he actually said which are here,courtesy of not the ''vile''[COUNTDOWN] MediaMatters,but the Associated Press.''I believe myself,that the Secretary of State,the Secretary of Defense and....you..have to make your own decision as to what the president know[knows]...this war is lost''.There is no and I mean zero mention of ''following '', ''the presidents path''or any other such word present in Reids original remarks.We will observe here that one of Reids early supports for his position come from al Qaeda[''The Base''] in a letter released yesterday through AL-FAJR MEDIA[Riyadh,Mecca,Kuwait City et al.Apr.25,2007]The question begs.Instead of the usually liberal question ''Why do they hate America?'' when referring to conservtaives,these might ask,''Why do terrorists like Democrats''?
What a shoddy line of questions this pathetic Williams asks! He attacks the candidates not on issues that distinguish each from the other but on what they think of Republican hot issues like guns, abortion and taxes. So as a Dem I see nothing but a unified front in their answers, and as a Rep my husband ses also a unified front of opposition. How insulting to the viewers and how boring! Where is the DEBATE!?
Brian specificaly stated that the majority of americans agree with the supreme court decision, yet those who answered don't agree. Why is the opposite true when it comes to the majority feeling about the war? It's only "what the american people want" when they agree with it.
Heh, the "show of hands" gun owners was everyone but the three running over 10%. Interesting. I suppose technically Hillary should have raised her hand too since the question was about "having a gun in her home during her adult life", what with living in the White House and all.
I've long thought that Obama was too young, Clinton was to maliable and Edwards was too 'western'. I'm going to look seriously at Gravel from now on.
Ding, Ding, Ding!!! Kucinich nailed it. GWoT is a BOGUS cover story!!!
Why hasn't the question of restoring the the Writ of Habeas Corpus been asked yet? The Military Commison Act of 2006, has given the President a blank check to remove this fundamental civil liberty from citizens. Do they agree that a single branch of our government should have the right remove a fundmental civil liberty? Do they not believe that this is a constitutional problem facing our nation?
It's no wonder these candidates choose MSNBC for this so called debate. Nothing but softballs, i just want one of these people to answer the question asked of the. I wish this country could come up with a viable third party.
Is the "pocket copy of the Constitution" a 'radio flow chart' moment?
Hillary would "QUICKLY" respond to being "ATTACKED" Impulsive, shoot first ask questions later. Sounds like spilled milk could result in NUCLEAR WINTER under Pres. Clinton II. Why ask why? Where's the football and the launch codes?
Kucinich scores! Auditioning for pres and making the right choice comment.
Lee, I was quoting in full Reid's statement on the Senate floor, on the senate.gov website from the 19th. The AP quote was cited from the same day, in his news confrence about his comments, and it's terribly important to quote the full sentence from either (and indeed both, in this case, since one is an explanation/ elaboration on the other), which you notably failed to do as well: "I believe myself that the secretary of state, secretary of defense, and — you have to make your own decisions as to what the president knows — this war is lost and the surge is not accomplishing anything as indicated by the extreme violence in Iraq yesterday." Giving the full context of each statement, and certainly at the very least the full content of each *sentence*, is important for any commentator, including of course a debate moderator. As for your question "why do terrorists like Democrats?" I'll let that question stand on its own unassailable dignity and merit. Heh.
Goodness gracious, great balls of fire. Edwards moral leader is his "Lord". Doesn't he own his own property? In a feudal system if you disobey the Lord you end up homeless. Sounds like he's targeting his base of serfs.
Why do otherwise educated, intelligent men such as John Edwards (and for that matter all of the candidates) feel the need to cite God as some sort of moral guide. Do they mean that they could not learn right from wrong without the use of an acient work of fiction?
The floor mike is drowining out Olbermann and Matthews ...
I'm afraid Obama's numbers will go down after tonight. Seems like he's being handled. Did gore's people find new jobs with Obama's campaign?
Ried's comments came more than a year after a similar comment by donald rumdum. lee holmes should be as nit-picky when parsing out Defeat Secretary rumdum's comment at a 2005 press conference: "We cannot win in Iraq; only the Iraqi people can do that." The independent clause is, "We cannot win in Iraq." Unfortunately, retardlicans never get nit-picky when fellow retardlicans are defeatists. holmes would have us all believe al Qaida propaganda. Just like retardlicans demanded that we believe chalabi (until they finally discovered that he was really working for the Ayatollah). Good advice: never believe a retardlican. Not ever.
Biden gets included in Gravel's top tier slam... LMAO Funny too his one word response to the verbosity question. LOL
Why are the post game interviews going to the weakest performers?
Will anyone running for office side with Keith Olberman and work toward removing the political talking heads such as Rush, Beck, Carlson and their ilk from consistantly misreporting or in some cases outright lying to cover their political agenda, perhaps some sort of government oversight that requires "news" to actually be informed, unbiased or have some sort of scroll across the screen (or a warning for radio) that announces the speaker is issuing pure opinion rather than facts? (Keith, for his part never tries to disquise his commentary as news). I would also like to add that if we must endure Fox News as a network without any real balance, why do more news-oriented stations (CNN, MSNBC, Headline News) insist on hiring conservative blowhards? Ratings should be important, but so should actual reporting.
DHESS GAME... The question; "Is the war lost?" can't be answered. If two men are playing chess, I can walk up and wipe off the board, destroying the game, I can advise one or the other and assist them in winning, I can give one bad advice in hopes destroying his game. But, all that said, I can not win, I can only interfere.
On Iraq: It would be nice if EITHER side would have the guts to admit that any chance of "success" in Iraq that has to do with military force would require MUCH more that a baby surge and either go all in or reinstate a draft that includes NO EXCEPTIONS based on gender, economic status and then see how the American public feels about sending their children off to fight for any reason other than in self-defense.
Hey Gail! Tell it to the former Secretary of Defeat. He was the first person to say that WE cannot win in Iraq. If you don't like his opinion, I suggest that you work to get the guy that hired him out of office.
Grunwald, cool name. Is she from Monsey in Rockland? Is that were they do it the OLD FASHIONED WAY? Is she traveling by TRAIN?
It's comments like the one Scarbrough just made "You're not really concerned about Kucinich are you" that unfairly influence opinion polls. It is a blatant misuse of the media.
And he STARTS with a bodyblow to Chris Matthews. Go For It MIKE!
The press has to stop badgering the democrats about why they voted for the war and when and why they turned against the war. At least they've gotten that far. Most of the republican candidates still support the war, despite all the evidence proving it to be an unmitigated disaster. Any village idiot would have gotten the point by now, but apparently not McCain, Giuliani, Romney, or the other republican candidates. It's time the press made them face up to that.
DUSTIN:Where did the AP say anything regarding ''following the presidents path''in Reid original remarks?It is because they were not there.My stance is indeed one of at least minimal merit.al Qaeda actually did remark positively on the Reid comments,as did AL AQSAS,ISLAMIC JIHAD,HAMAS and HEZBOLLAH whose leaders and spokespersons all praised the Pelosi visit to the Middle East in March.I do not find this a laughing matter.To what end would murdering terrorists seek in praising the two highest legislative branch leaders in America?Reid comments were cowardly,so much so that even as the debate drags on,none of those questioned by Brian Williams on the Reid comments would even give a straight answer.
If I had to vote for someone based on their performance tonight I would have to vote for Biden with a close second to Richardson and a even closer third to Clinton. And going into tonight I would have voted for Obama. I think we need about ten more of these debates
Andrea Mitchell just called Mike Gravel a "radical, a bombthrower." I'm tired of hearing the press summarily dismiss candidates like Kucinich and Gravel in those kinds of disparaging terms. Four years ago the radical bombthrowers were those folks who were against the Iraq war. What do you suppose Andrea Mitchell would call those folks now? Visionaries?
Is Kucinich's wife 30 years younger then him
I agree Obama looked uncomfortable, Hillary looked uptight, Richardson was good,except for the 1-2-3, but I agree it would be very refreshing for any one to just answer the question. I thought Richarson and Edwards were very good.
Hey, sgoldbarg! What about publican majority leader, senator bill frist. When he was coming back from his 'fact-finding' junket in Afghanistan in August of last year he gave an interview to al Jazeera in which he said we should let the Taliban back into the Afghan government! Now there is a traitor who ought to be given the Lindh treatment - maybe even renditioned, waterboarded, and made to have sex with publican representative mark "page-boy pervert" Hey, sgoldbarg! What about publican majority leader, senator bill frist. When he was coming back from his 'fact-finding' junket in Afghanistan in AQugust of last year he gave an interview to al Jazeera in which he said we should let the Taliban back into the Afghan government! Now there is a traitor who ought to be given the Lindh treatment - maybe even renditioned, waterboarded, and made to have sex with publican representative mark "page-boy pervert" foley.
And, just to bring down the level of discussion: Mrs. Kucinich is.. distracting. I'm sure there's a good Bill/Hillary analogy in there somewhere.
Why do we always have to have democratic candidates and opinions vetted by the analysis of the likes of Chris Mathews, Tucker Carlson and Joe Scarborough. Any the dabate mederated by Brian Williams??? I doubt that any Republican candidates would submit to ANY debate moderated of analysed by Keith Oberman.
Dennis Kucinich was absolutely awesome! As an anti-war democrat I cant say enough about his profound take on the situation. He is one of VERY few that DID NOT vote for the war! Those are the people who should be running! The rest had political aspirations and were literally bullied to stand in line or be seen as unpatriotic. Dodd did very well and Edwards to me was the worst. Barak fell flat and Hillary was as scripted as coul be. Hillary especially scares me when it comes to a future war against Iran just to show how tough she is.
Gravel wins!
The point about the lack of support for impeachment, and laying down the LAW by demanding Murtha-Feingold-Kucinich-Richardson redeployment ASAP to beat the inevitable John Kerry line "LAST MAN TO DIE IN IRAQ" for the FAILED attempt at 80% EXXON owned Iraqi OIL, was driven home by GRAVEL. He noted that the candidates are more concerned with their own hide, being left with the farce that DEMS CAUSED THE MESS-IN-POTAMIA DEFEAT, than they are with saving lives or the liquidity of the US DOLLAR. The fact nobody mentioned the link between the deficit and domestic strife, including crime and the suicide rate is another dot that they refuse to connect, like the myriad of unanswered questions that Kean Commission lists as "LOOSE ENDS". Accountability must be off the table when it comes to campaign rhetoric. What a country, as Yakov Smirnoff would say.
Richard:At least the Republicans would show up,which is more than I can say for the Dem cowards who backed out of the FOX-moderated debates.Whether or not you guys believe it,a conservative voice has every damned much right of being heard in this nation as one from a liberal,or even a Kusinich-leftist.Dismiss it if one will,that is their right.So is that of the O'Reillys,Hannitys,Carlsons and others to say what is on their minds.They do represent privately-owned concerns,after all.It is not for the government[see:Erics post],to impose thought control on what is read,heard or is seen.This is anathema to all that the Founders stood for.
Bonnie's right about the unintended consequences of pundits glib use of words like "RADICAL", however they are what gets them rated on par with FOXnoise personalities. That's really were they belong. They're just waiting for an offer they cant refuse. Unfortunately there is no penalty for slander, or treason when geriatrics like Mitchell and Novak do it as long as it favors the GOP. They know which side their bread is buttered on. Carlson and Scarborough are still incubating, stand by for them to fully morph into Tony Snow "TAR BABY" baby types.
<< DUSTIN:Where did the AP say anything regarding ''following the presidents path''in Reid original remarks?It is because they were not there.My stance is indeed one of at least minimal merit.>> The AP didn't write an article on his original remarks in the Senate (at least that I read) just his press conference *about* his remarks thereafter. It was a matter of parts of the media not paying attention to the point he was making, nor the full context of his statements. Basically, you're not alone in the narrow framing of this attack on Reid, and I certainly wouldn't blame you for tentatively holding your position before becoming aware of the complete statements. <> Oh, I'm sorry - I'll explain. You're implying an illogical argument: "bad" guy says he likes something, therefore something is "bad". I'm sure Hitler may've liked chocolate chip cookies. How dare you eat them? The point *is* laughable when using such a logical fallacy to posit extremely unfair and untrue positions - "Democrats don't get terrorism, Democrats are cowardly" etc. I would never make such a specious argument about Republicans, personally. I prefer to argue the merit of their actions and words with full understanding, and, yes, context. <> I wasn't happy with their answers, myself, as I originally noted, but I assume not for the same reason as yours. I would argue that Reid's position is quite opposite of cowardly, for example. It's becoming more and more rare to hear a politician speak openly, strongly, and honestly while knowing that people are anxious to take incomplete excerpts of your statements out of context and use them as a weapon against you. And, back on topic, all of what I just said should make not so surprising that I'd vote Gore/Feingold if given the chance, over the orators tonight. Stinks to be me. :)
my last words on imus as well.i am new to the world of bloging.please excuse my capps on some messages i dont type well and i just forget.back to imus lets cut to the facts,imus did say things he should not have said but this is not about race.he felt bad for what he said and non of us imus folks agree the words he said and he should have gone to the girls and said he was sorry as he did.they forgave him,this could have changed shock radio by moving the bar and change the standards of whats ok,,,,,i am sorry this has gotten so out of control,,,,,,i miss the imus show and the man. thank you glenn brandon
You ignore the fact that his Senate remarks were 'clarifications''[i.e.''following the presidents path''] after he made the verbatim remarks to reporters immediately before taking to the Senate floor which did not include his later remarks.Why would Reid seek ''clarification''for remarks made ''honestly''?Be this as it may,Reid is tanking in Nevada.Who knows,perhaps you can talk algore into installing him as a Postmaster General or some such.Actions like those of Reid and others in tonights debate,prove that Democrats really do not ''get terrorism''or Pelosi would have already commented on the fact that Assad was shipping arms to the terrorist HEZBOLLAH in violation of UN Resolution 1701 at the very moment she was carving her ''road to peace''in Damsacus.Ye gods,they do not ''get''the terrorists, themselves....
"Ending war for all time is NAIVE"? AJC.com's Cynthia Tucker is either ignorant of the NEW WORLD ORDER single global government where nation states mutually assured destruction is the ultimate deterrent, or she's talking about wars like the WAR ON DRUGS, which is a government project to assure full employment for mercenaries and black male negotiators that is deliberately open-ended. My respect for the Pulitzer has now on par with the Freedom Medal since Wolfowitz's appointment to the World Bank.
Shrum and Buchanan were in top form Matthews at 11:25. The skill of their political inside the Beltway manipulation tactics was stellar. Shrum using the GWoT GOP party line terms and Buchanan complementing Hillary's hawkishness toward Iran on Israel's behalf perfect illustrates Naders point that there is only ONE party. The DEMS and the GOP are two sides of the same coin. That coin doesn't fit the populous core values slot machine, but the public really doesn't matter. IT'S ABOUT OLIGARCHY AND THE IRON TRIANGLE. Thanks for playing. There's not a dimes worth of difference ... BINGO!!!!


SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=170075

Syndicate This Site

Add The News Hole to your news reader:
live.com xml
myyahoo msn
bloglines newsgator
google