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George Tenet Discussion Thread

Posted: Monday, April 30, 2007 12:30 AM by Countdown

Well, that was some interview with Vince McMahon George Tenet on 60 Minutes tonight. Lots of revelations, accusations and agitated gesticulation.

If you missed it, the CBS page sums it all up nicely, but for purposes of starting the discussion here, we kinda like how 'Todd from New Orleans' kicks it off, with his comment post in the 'puppies' thread below...


"After watching the 60 Minutes interview etc. this weekend with George Tenet, it made me slightly nauseous. It struck me that Tenet so clearly pulling a semi-Gonzales in an effort not to get scapegoated on the decision to go to invasion, er, war, must be a good sign for We The People.

"Here is a man in the center of things saying things like he does "not know what the Vice President was thinking" on several key intelligence issues, quibbling on the term torture versus "enhanced interrogation", that he did not do his job of reviewing the SOTU speech for intelligence laws but instead delegated it, and the excuse that when he said "slam dunk", he was referring to the ability to make a case for WMD's and not the argument and evidence the case was based upon...

"Well soon it will just be Bush and Cheney pointing fingers at each other ("Dick told me to do it! I really love the Bill of Constitution!", "Don't look at me. The monkey is President and CIC, not me. I am just a demented old man who shoots his friends in the face and then makes THEM apologize."). My money is on Dick and his superior shotgun prowess.

"It also occurred to me upon seeing the general responses to Tenet across the Internets today that as each scandal of incompetence or corruption unfolds for this administration, the "cover up and spin" half-life has fallen from months and weeks to mere hours and days. I am betting George Tenet by next weekend will be wishing he had a puppy instead of that that Medal of Freedom. I am betting the puppy is glad to have an alternative home in a better ethical environment than a politician can provide. Why? Because dog's have better sense and general behavior than the Bush administration. And they have been known to eat poop. You decide if I mean the dogs or the politicians."

Todd, New Orleans, LA (Sent Sunday, April 29, 2007 10:42 PM)

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After sitting here watching one of my favorite programs-Cold Case on CBS-and crying because of the frailties of life, no matter that it is a fictional program, I come on to this. This. This person, who along with so many others, have sent more than 3,300 Americans to their deaths. Why? Why is it almost humorous to some that George Tenet lied? Why is it okay to make fun of this whole situation? I can't understand this. These SOB's will go on and live their lives, while thousands of American families will visit grave sites, or help heal their gravely wounded loved ones. Screw them all, and screw all of you self righteous idiots that want to persevere in this lie of a war. You stupid bastards need to go and sign up-go ahead-please, take the place of my brother. Better yet, go take a trip to your state's National Cemetary-do you like what you see? If in San Diego, go to Ft Rosecrans and you will find, on the south side of the cemetery, the one over-looking NAS North Island, the headstones of many young Americans that gave their lives for people like Tenet. They gave their all, and the two Georges, Dick, Don, Condi, et. al., gave nothing. Now George T is making money on the courage of those dead Americans-how grand. How grand this all is while most Americans sit in their comfy homes watching Cold Case, the race at Talladega, the local ball game. Great.
Jamie - you're right, this isn't a laughing matter, but sometimes people HAVE to laugh to avoid tearing their eyes out or becoming so depressed and/or cynical about everything that they're rendered nearly non-functional. The deaths of our soldiers and of the innocent Iraqi civilians who have been thrust into the middle of this farce are nothing short of murder, and were it possible, I would love to see the whole lot of them brought up on murder charges - be we know that won't happen. I know that a bill has been introduced to impeach Dick Cheney, but I also know that it's unlikely to go anywhere baring some miracle of social conscious amongst politicians, a scandal that simply CAN'T be overlooked, or hell freezing over in mid-August. Me, I'm betting on the last one. I cried for days when I learned Bush had been elected, knowing that by the time he was out of office - whether it was in 4 or 8 years - my country would be barely recognizable to me. The only way I've avoided spending the last 6 years crying is by laughing at the absurdity of it all. I hope your brother - and everyone's brothers, sisters, mothers, fathers and other loved ones - come home safe and come home soon. I can't even begin to understand what you are going through.
The behavior of G. Tenet, Sen. Duran and the other 17 Senators of the Senate Intelligence Committee is akin to the same enabling behavior that allowed Hitler to get as far as he did. These men's brains seemed to go on auto-pilot. Their inability to understand and act on the fact that certain moral principles take precedence in given situations, like life and death makes me feel so angry. What do we pay them to do? They represent us and protect the Constitution. And look they allowed lies to go unchecked, when they knew better and failed to exercise thei duty to provide oversight. If all 18 Senators stood up and said the intelligence doesn't back up the lies the Administration is telling the American people point by point, no court would have convicted them and the chaos, death, maiming, and the destruction would have been averted. At least I want to believe that the American people would have woke up from the hynoptic trance Bush, Cheney, and Rice were casting. He is so pathetic, even now he gives Bush a pass. George Tenet is not a victim, but a war criminal just like the others he writes about in his book.
The only thing worse than what this man has done is the media helping him sell his book by listening to his dribble. Point out that he was reccommended by bush one to clinton and retained only because bush two is president. he would not dare to cross bush because he would be out of the parties. Ask him How can he sleep at night with 35000 dead and wounded and many more to come. Where was this yellow bastard when he could have helped. He needs to be interviewed by jon stewert and a comment by oberman not by the press who is part of our ruling class
Thank you, Countdown. Normally I am not a "credit" driven guy. I care nothing for awards or idyll praise. However, to have a commentary elevated and used by your news group has both merit and meaning to me if no one else. I take it as a high compliment. The only praise of my writing that would matter as much would have been a blessing from the late Kurt Vonnegut although selling a couple of million books would not be unacceptable. Keep up the good fight Countdowners and again, thank you. As ever, your loyal viewer and willing to relocate. This was as good as getting a puppy. Almost.
What a shameless, money-grubbing shill this sorry excuse for a human is. He was instrumental in the run-up to the disaster otherwise known as the GWOT. Now that the entire thing has gone to hell in a handbasket, he is embarking on a book tour trying to explain away his culpability. I have some questions for Mr. Tenet. Why did you not utilize some of the honor you spoke of last night and resign in protest when you first realized that the entire fiasco in Iraq was based on a pile of BS? Why did you accept the Medal of Honor, when it is clear to anyone that you have no honor? Like many enablers of this disaster, you did not speak up when it mattered, and lives and treasure could have been saved. Now your sorry and pathetic book shilling is only shameful. Along with Bush, Cheney, Rice and others, the blood of our fighting men and women, along with untold numbers of Iraqi's, is on your hands.
The real story has yet to be determined. Secretary Rice's comments were often vague and indirect. In addition in the first interview I saw Secretary Rice did not seem to be confident / committed to the responses she chose to present. (In fairness there may have been security issues limiting her responses.) On the other side Mr Tenet's presentation included greater detail and both successes and failures in his personal and departmental conduct. While I do not accept Mr Tenet's assertions without question, I inclined to accept his statements as his views of the incidents. Again repeating, this story is still incomplete and in need of further investigation.
How lovely. In my state California, our dear Dem. Sen. Feinstein, she of the "I am woman hear me roar" generation, sat on that committee and read the news in plain black and white that the administration's intelligence (what an oxymoron!) was built around their decision to invade and occupy, and she voted in favor of the Iraq War Resolution anyway. So did John Edwards, Dem. Presidential Candidate, who not only voted for the resolution as he so generously apologizes for now, but was on that very same Senate Intelligence Committee - he had even more [official legitimately-obtained] info than Hillary! I want Feinstein recalled and replaced pronto, and Edwards should hang his $400-haircut-head and go home and take care of his wife and kids. Both these parties deserve a swift kick in the rear and every member of that Senate Intelligence Comm. of 2002 should get a Medal of Cowardice and have to wear it every day while they serve the maimed veterans and the dead soldiers' families hand and foot for the rest of all those punk senators' pathetic lives. Grrrrrr.
if there is any good news in all of this, the bush crime family machine seems to be imploding, and if the media will take more than just the baby steps it is taking, neither the dems, nor any other party will have to do anything but sit back and watch as they implode. to wait 4 years, while people died, that is simply reprehensible. they are pond scum.
As the Bush Administration begins to wind down, there is one constant going on. Reputations are rightfully being ruined all over the place. The downside to this is a slam dunk - it makes for a lot of book sales. You can't save your backside, Tenet. Look at the news. Too bad you didn't have the courage to speak up. You and everybody else. Enjoy your medal.
I urge people across America to boycott Tenet’s book (or if you’ve already bought it to return it) and take the progressive action of sending $30 to one of the following organizations (or another human rights group of your choice): The World Organization Against Torture Human Rights Watch Human Rights Monitor Human Rights Campaign Youth Human Rights Group International League for Human Rights Hearing Tenet repeat the Bush and Cheney “We do not torture” mantra last night in his interview on 60 Minutes was chilling. He is still in a state of denial over the Bush administration’s repeated violations of international treaty obligations under the Geneva Conventions and the UN Charter regarding torture and our treatment of prisoners of war. Like Barbara Bush, who has said she doesn’t want her “pretty mind messed up” by the sight of flag-draped coffins carrying home her fellow citizens, Tenet also apparently cannot bring himself to face the hideous truth of this administration’s actions (or the role he played within it). Also, the opportunity for clarifying the meaning of “slam dunk” is four years and 3,330 (+) lives too late. If he truly believes Bush and Cheney misinterpreted and misused that phrase as a pretext for going to war that makes his “Medal of Freedom” meaningless. Why hasn’t he returned it?
We all know that no matter how many of these snakes that got us into this mess in Iraq now "confess" what really happened, none will have to say their penance of Hail Mary's or Our Father's. No. Like Tenant they will point fingers and then slink off to count their cash as they promote their books and work the speech circuit. Same goes for Cheney and Bush. As the families of the fallen are still grieving for lost loved ones, Bush will be clearing brush and working on what to put in his presidential library (in which in my opinion a copy of "My Pet Goat" should be prominently displayed), which I'm sure will not be complete without a dedication speech by Rush and Hannity. Cheney will be a consultant for an oil company until is black heart finally gives out. Just as today, WE are the ones paying the price for this war and will be for years to come.
All of the above...And...Dubya still gets to keep his war going on! Is this country paralyzed or what?
Mr. Tenet, you are a disgrace!! There are no words in any language to describe your despicable actions. You are a liar!! You lied to America, the community of nations, world leaders, and Iraqi citizens. You are responsible for the destruction of America's global moral leadership. Your lie by convenient “omission” is the most callous, cruel, corrupt, dishonest, fraudulent and evil act any person could commit. You are responsible for more than three thousand Americans lives cut short. You are responsible for inflicting death, destruction and wholesale social suffering against some of the weakest people in the world. You are a beast, a coward, a monster and a swine!! How dare you knowingly and willingly withhold information from the aforementioned!! How dare you allow the greatest military disaster in this country’s history to be done in “our” name!! How dare you allow Iraqi children to be killed, maimed and left broken, homeless and orphans!! How dare you remain silent, while preparations were being made for the premeditated, unprovoked, unjustifiable mass murder of hundreds of thousands of Iraqis!! How dare you sit in silence when over one hundred thousand of our brave Americans were on route to “preempt” something you knew damn well needed no “preempting”!! How dare you accept and allow a Medal of Freedom to be hung around your neck by George W. Bush in December 2004? Your omission not only makes you just as culpable as George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Condaleeza Rice and Donald Rumsfeld, your actions can only be described as wicked!! Instead of being a “Woodward” or “Bernstein”, or a “Deep Throat” if need be, you took on the role of Judas. You willingly and knowingly betrayed the world. You personally anointed yourself Divine Master. Now, after five years, you dare attempt to create the illusion of personal exculpability? How dare you accept millions of dollars based on your sick and twisted efforts to promote this illusion!! If you are a believer in God, you better hope and pray every second of every minute of every day for the remainder of your depraved life for forgiveness Mr. Tenet!! For if you continue on your cowardly path of eradicating personal blame, may you burn in Hell along with George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Condaleeza Rice and Donald Rumsfeld!!
V4Vendetta: "How lovely. In my state California, our dear Dem. Sen. Feinstein, she of the "I am woman hear me roar" generation, sat on that committee and read the news in plain black and white that the administration's intelligence (what an oxymoron!) was built around their decision to invade and occupy, and she voted in favor of the Iraq War Resolution anyway." Yes, when I saw her vote and that she knew, more things made sense. I have written to her, Sen Boxer and congressman Filner on many occasions, twice regarding an impeachment. Feinstein was the ONLY one to write back and say that there was no cause for impeachment-hmmm, maybe she was scared for herself. She has a pretty decent history in this state, but rest assured, if she runs again I will do my best to get the word out against her. I do laugh a lot about things, because if not I would break down. I have a pretty great life-and it would be even better if our government was full of idiots. I just get very angry sometimes at the almost blase attitude that people have. PEACE!
Sheesh, I meant 'wasn't' full of idiots. :)
Todd, New Orleans, LA - KUDOS Todd!! You are ever so deserving. I'm glad Countdown has seen your extraordinary talent, which I have enjoyed for a while now!! Keep up the great work and congratulations my friend!!
Tenet should be indicted for crimes against humanity. And, he can take Dick Durbin with him as well, who, in my humble opinion, should resign. Instead of either of them having the kahona's to be this generation's "Deep Throat", they have proudly shown the American people that these "honorable gentlemen" have chosen to cover their a**es for four years instead of SAVING LIVES four years ago. I bet this is real comfort to the thousands of soldier's families as well as the thousands upon thousands of innocent Iraqi civilians who have died in this farce of a war. How can these two tools sleep at night is beyond me ... their behavior is astonishingly disgusting.
I appreciate and agree with the comments being made here about George Tenet. But no matter what lies ahead for Tenet (and let's hope there is some form of serious consequence for his role as an enabler of this war in Iraq) I will be greatly disappointed if the two main actors in this catastrophe are not held fully responsible, Bush and Cheney. We can refuse to buy those books authored by the the likes of Tenent. We can criticize and ostracize the little guys until they perish in their own defecating misery. But unless we hold Bush and Cheney fully responsible by way of impeachment, criminal charges against humanity, or at a miniumum full accounting in the annuals of American history, the satisfaction of getting the little guys as Tenet will be bitter sweet and will not fulfill the justice demanded for the lies, deceit and crimes against this country, its young military personnel, and the law-abiding citizens of Iraq.
Who is the publisher of Mr.Tenet's book?. Would possibly the CBS group anything to do with his book. All I have to say, God Help us, there are many more George Tenet's in Washington, as we already see with the pathetic Secretary of State, as Woopi Goldberg said, "what's Condilessa Rice , is that sort of disease?
Everyone on the senate intellegence committiee should be tried for treason and the ones who were on the committee AND voted for the war should be excecuted along with George Tennant!
George T's book is the latest in the series of events which contributes to my epiphany on why GWB and his gang wanted us out of the ICC. They knew long before our invasion of Iraq (every bit as bad as Polk's invasion of Mexico, which Thoreau's Civil Disobedience protested) that the way they carried out the invasion was a war crime - and Cheney and W would be and should be indictable as war criminals. You read me right, W-A-R C-R-I-M-I-N-A-L-S!! You know, we Americans are suffering every bit as much under this criminal administration as the German people suffered under Hitler's perfidy. The genius of both W and Hitler is that neither people knew how bad the suffering was until it was too late, far too late. The only thing reprehensible about George T's book is the "why didn't he say anything when it was time, really?" So far, it was only the Medal of Freedom profaned, fortunately not the Medal of Honor. Anyway, the punch line is about as bad as it gets. Please, Mr. Olbermann, call for Cheney's and W's impeachments - if you, as well as the other "press flunkies" of our ruling class, have any shred of decency and integrity left. War crimes are far and above the "high crimes and misdemeanors" set forth in our Constitution. Yes, it's true, I'm writing this from deep within Bush Country ++. Cape Coral, FL, another American city where the Chamber of Commerce runs amok with its stranglehold on local politics. But that's another story in itself.
Although Tenet may be able to supply more information regarding the corruption of the Bush and Cheney administration, let's focus on those still in Office. I see that Rice is criticizing congress (the troop funding bill with timetables and benchmarks for the Iraqis). According to Rice - " to begin now to tie our own hands - and to say "we must do this if they don't do that - doesn't allow us the flexibility and creativity that we need to move forward". Do my eyes deceive me? Is she saying that this administraton needs more time to come up with enough creativity to move forward in this conflict. Rice needs to resign. Regarding the Iraqi benchmarks, I can see where this is heading. Both sides are preparing to blame the Iraqis if neither this administration and/or congress will end this mess. We invade a country, terminate it's leader, take part in the killing of its citizens, destroy its government, military and infrastructure, create homelessness open a fissure for on-going religious hatred that has resulted in an on-going civil war, then say get your shit together or we are leaving. No wonder most Iraqis hate us. Congress should forget placing benchmarks on the Iraqis and focus placing benchmarks on Bush. You have six months to begin getting our troops out of Iraq or we cut your funding of this conflict, period. And if congress is unwilling to take that step then it is time the American people place some benchmarks on congress.
Along with all of the contributors today I watched the interview on 60 minutes. I can only say that he gives me the appetite to puck, cuss, and scream all at the same time. Talk about self-serving! The Bush administration should be impeached the sooner the better. I wish more of the good people in Utah would listen to what the Rocky Anderson, Mayor of Salt Lake City is trying to tell them. As a lawyer he has laid out the evidence that support the appropriateness of impeachment proceedings.
Tenet (aka George III), admits to lying and deception and wants us to buy his book and read all about it. Flash for G-3, MILLIONS of solid Americans knew the Iraq story was a scam - but we were labeled traitors by you, G-1, G-2, Firearm Dick, and Congress who voted for it. Tenet has nothing new to tell - he's trying to save his own butt and make a few bucks off suckers.
As I sat and watched George Tenet’s interview on 60 Minutes last night, I became further enraged as I watched this self-absorbed liar proceed to answer question after question with self-justified arrogance. He could not answer “why” he co-signed on a war that he is now claiming was based on manipulated intelligence? He could answer “why” he remained silent? He could not answer “why” he has protected and sheltered George W. Bush? He could not answer “why” he didn’t review the SOTU speech with the now infamous “sixteen words”, which he stated he demanded be taken out of two prior addresses. He could not answer “what” was discussed during his “admitted” conversations between Colin Powell and himself since the Iraq Invasion, or “why” they had discussions. His answer with respect to his acceptance of the Presidential Medal of Freedom was ludicrous. His anger and belligerence consumed both him and the interview. The only time he seemed genuinely angry was in discussing the outing of Valerie Plame, but that “sincerity” passed quickly. He refused to reveal who he believed leaked her name, although his smirk gave him away as to “who” he believes the guilty party is. His appalling, disgraceful, self-serving interview just further proves that he is equally culpable in the illegal war waged against Iraq; along with George W. Bush, Dick Cheney, Condaleeza Rice and Donald Rumsfeld. After watching this egotistical and narcissistic man attempt to not only exculpate himself from the remainder of the criminal Administration clan, this was truly one of the lowest points I can remember since I was a child, and began actively following politics.
Repeating myself from other posts re the Iraq situation: Yes - all these people are to blame. I can't think of punishment strong enough for them. BUT - where was the PRESS?? I am absolutely disgusted that our, supposedly, "free" press had not investigated and reported on all this from the beginning. Even a nobody in rural Texas like me knew the WMD assertion against Iraq was false. I mean, Clinton had raised the issue, been concerned about it, and, then, revealed that intelligence didn't support it. The United Nations wasn't supportive even though they were the ones driving the inspections in Iraq. If I remember correctly, the chief inspector (an American) discounted the WMD assertion even though at the time he was seriously angry at the noncooperation of Sadamm. At the beginning of the Bush debacle, I watched and waited for the press to raise and address this point. At the time, I was perfectly willing to believe, if the press had addressed it, that further supporting evidence had been found. I never saw any media reports that addressed this point other than parroting that one "finding" that has since been dismissed by our intelligence agencies. I kept waiting for the press to tell me what had happened to change our policy. Another point was very confusing: Why on earth did we invade Iraq when we should have been going full throttle to find and punish the 9/11 criminals and those goverments that supported them? At the time I made reference that we were like a small boy who didn't have the muscle to hit the bully so we hit the next closest unpleasant person who was more our size. Now what does THAT tell you about the US military policy? I simply cannot watch broadcast television news coverage anymore. I'm starting to feel that way about print journalism as well. I want those guys to do some work!! I want to know that Halberstam's successors are worthy of the title "journalist" as he definitely was. I credit him almost exclusively with changing my mind about supporting Viet Nam. It really seems to me that news reporters (I can't call them journalists) are reporting more the "he said/she said" level of information rather than "here is what we found when investigating what he said/she said". An example was the Congressional Page Abuse scandal. I spent 10 years in DC, some of that time working political functions. I KNOW that the press organizations there are really tight with goverment. I KNOW that those persons frequently know more about what is going on than the elected officials. My first thought after the Page story broke was: "Where the hell was the press all these years?" Why do I insert this into this discussion now? If this problem isn't corrected, our ability to judge our government's behavior is severely compromised. Regardless of the political party in favor, we need this oversight!! Just changing to a democratic presidency will not solve this problem. It appears to me that the press is, again, following AFTER public outrage rather than leading it. The Free Press is the MOST important feature of our society. Without it all our other civil rights are useless. Is it at all possible that the "true" news organizations can form a mission that will state "entertainment information" (Britney, Baldwin, Paris, and (OMG) Anna Nicole) belongs only in the sections and publications dedicated to that kind of drivel? In fact, I fear that the "juicy" DC Madam story will become the lead because it appeals to the low base of our humanity. It might become the "Lewinsky" story which dominated the media so much that we had almost no idea what else was going on in government at the time. Meanwhile, people die. Countdown - Do you think it is possible that you could lead the way in asking and answering why the American Press is no longer the absolute demonstration and proof that we are living under a free, Constitution-led, form of government? I assure you that, regardless of political affiliation, the American Citizen would much appreciate this kind of introspection. Sorry for the length of the post. As you can tell, I'm kinda passionate about this.
C A - Rice is in way over her head and has been since day one. She was an incompetent National Security Advisor, which promptly got her a promotion to Secretary of State in Bush's second term. She can't handle this position, just as she could not handle her past position. She should have remained at Stanford teaching. Her performance in both positions is nothing short of incompetent and disgraceful!!
Jamie - Regarding Senator Feinstein, my sister and I have always said "she is the only republican we have ever voted for". Senator Boxer is the true voice of the Democratic Party in this state. I was living in San Francisco when she assumed the role of mayor, after multiple failed attempts at running, when Mayor George Moscone was assassinated. She was the Senior City Supervisor, this assumed the role of Mayor for the remainder of that term. She is where she is because of that dreadful day, when San Francisco lost a truly great man and Mayor. I have always believed based on her voting record and positions on various things, she is leans much more to the right than even "moderate" democrats. PEACE and I'll be out there with you working against her re-election friend!! What a disgraceful revelation!!
Looks like the snakes a beginning to eat one another. Tenet trying to redeem himself this far into the war is like Michael Brown trying to redeem himself after Katri-oh wait. Nevermind.
Independent, Texas - WOW!! Great job friend!! As an American who also knew I was being fed a bunch of crap and lies about WMD leading up to the Iraq Invasion (I refuse to call it a war, it has ALWAYS been an "Invasion"), I'm with you!! Where was the press and where is it now? I already posted I just don't give a damn about the DC Madam either! There are more important crises facing our nation and the world. George W. Bush and his Administration must be "micro-managed", to use "their term" by the media every second of every minute of every day PERIOD!! And I want responsible reporting about the "important" issues. I believe COUNTDOWN does the best job of any news progam, cable or network. KUDOS to you "Independent" and COUNTDOWN, keep up and turn up the heat!!
Judging by Tenent's comments, it seems to me Bush should have replaced him the minute Bush took office. He was a Clinton appointee for christ's sake no doubt incompetent. One of Bush's major failings is his seeming inability to recognize incompetence in his administration.
Speaking of Condi...if you haven't yet seen Bill Moyers' Journal special on PBS "Buying the War" shek it out. In Chapter 3 at at almost eight minutes in, Condi's true nature comes out while describing the "mushroom cloud" theory. Be sure to pause it right at 7:58. Anyone see the resemblance to Michael Jackson in Thriller? She's out of this world. ;)
The question is what will it take to get the majority of Americans so outraged that they will demand action against this administration thereby inciting congress to take appropriate steps in a timely fashion. Frankly, if you asked many Americans on the street who George Tenent was they would probably guess he was some professional athlete or some up-and-coming movie star. This administration has come very close to forever changing the relationship between the federal government and the American people. In time, if nothing is done, the freedoms once held dear to all Americans will be destroyed by a few individuals because they have become unaccountable and unanswerable to no one. The days of a government for and by the people will slip away into the night while the Amercian people sleep beyond the witching hour. Americans have become so numb to anything that happens outside their own self-centered world another 100 young Amercians can lose their lives in Iraq this past month without the slightest outrage beyond that printed or reported by some in the media. For that matter, most Americans likley could not tell you how many American lives were lost in Iraq last month, the month before, or over the length of this conflict. Do they really care. I mean really care. Oh, the American people's interests can be raised out of the sand along with their heads now and then, if Tom Cruise has another couch jumping fit, or Brittney enters another rehab program, or someone in Washington rents a hooker for the night. But all in all the majority just keep their head in the sand half the time and clueless as to how their self-centered worlds just may one day come crashing down on them. And when and if they do react, one day, it just may be too late.
Today I went and had my dependent military ID card changed to USN/RET, and my husband got his lovely blue Retired ID card. At midnight tonight he will be Andy, USN, Retired-I can't wait. Because of Individual Augmentations (IA's), we've been worried that he'd be called upon to go somewhere else to do a job, say in Kuwait or Iraq. These IA's have pulled so many people from their regular military jobs and put them in very non-traditional jobs within their military scope. I am so proud of my husband, but I can't deny that I'm glad that it is almost over. My husband is a model of what it means to take the oath to serve his country, and the committment that goes along with it-the Georges, Dick, Condi, etc., have no idea what that means. So to my husband 'Fair Winds and Following Seas.' You've your country proud!
C A and Pam: My take on Rice is that she's toeing the line for her handlers. I think that she no longer believes the lies she speaks. Next time she makes a public spew-fest, look at her eyes - they're dead, listless, glazed over. My SO and I have talked about this many times, and the only reason we can see for her not having run for the hills is that (and I know this is perhaps giving her more character credit than she's due) she's still got a small shred of *something* left in her and she knows that whomever would replace her would be even more arrogant, pig-headed and war-hungry and would further exacerbate the conflict in the Middle East. Back to the point of the thread... GT is just another in a long list of disgruntled former cronies who's now trying to CYA. (Use The Google for "former Bush cronies" and it comes up with over 800,000 results). HA!
You can boycott and gripe and laugh all you want if it relieves your stress. Fact remains, NOTHING will get done until we ALL get VERY ANGRY. Why should we suppress these emotions? To make our own individual lives better? More stress free? Or as some on here say..."to keep us from scratching our own eyes out in frustration?" If you do this you are no better than any of them. We should all be SCREAMING from atop the mountain, alerting our families and neighbors to what these crooks have done. Here in the Bible Belt I am awed at how the majority of the people around me are unaware of these issues. I didn't believe it either at first but us in the blog world need to realize that the MAJORITY of Americans DO NOT EVEN HAVE CABLE. Let alone internet. And those that do DO NOT spend much time watching news, reading blogs etc. They learn about the world through what they see on our local hillbilly news or hear from their friends in church on Sunday. WE THE PEOPLE IN THE KNOW need to stand up and USE OUR ANGER to EDUCATE EVERYONE AROUND US. Even if we are ridiculed on a daily basis for it. The greater majority are more ignorant to the facts than we can imagine. To sit here and type about laughing at this is just as great an offense as those committeed by our spineless press corps.
Keith & Countdown, I sincerely thank you for the crucial issues you discuss and bring into my home each evening. In addition, I thank you for making the American public aware of such significant revelations such as those of George Tenet and Senator Richard Durbin. In comparison to Countdown's great reporting on Tenet and Durbin Friday night, O'Reilly had Geraldo Rivera on to discuss "how Geraldo disciplines his children" in comparison to Alec Baldwin!! Fox News, other than being the most hypocritical station regarding covering real issues and in a "fair and balanced" (HAH!) manner, the FCC should really do something to remove "News" from Fox News Channel. I'm dead serious!! I watch in amazement each night, but O’Reilly really outdid himself Friday night. As typical of the hypocrite, every issue negatively impacting George W. Bush (at infinitum!!) or anyone associated with his horrid Administration is never covered. Friday night was really it for me, as I sat and watched in amazement that neither George Tenet nor Senator Dick Durbin were not mentioned at all. Rosie O’Donnell leaving “The View” just HAD to be covered; in addition to Geraldo’s “Great Parenting Advice and Insight” segment with Bill-O. It was not only ludicrous that this would be covered in lieu of Tenet and Durbin, the advice came from Geraldo Rivera, a man with five marriages and four divorces to his credit!! What a disgrace and how equally appalling Fox is!! FCC, where are you?
Independant Texas, The question you posed is being repeated more and more as this travesty goes on. As I recall there were a few brave voices out there Phil Donahue, Chris Matthews and Pat Buchanan, they were drowned out by the super patriots. Every one hated Saddam Hussein, so who out there was willing to listen to a voice of reason? May God forgive us, I doubt that the Iraqis ever will. I have to add that I did not recall seeing Keith until after we invaded Iraq. I'm sure he would have been one of the brave voices also.
JAM, Pittsburgh, PA - I have noticed her dark eyes and robotic manner and broken records statements also; however, I don't believe she has a shred of decency in her. She continues to defend Bush, the war, the decisions made, etc. No, she is "blinded" by George W. Bush, a man I personally believe she has "feelings" for. I remember the time she mistakenly referred to George W. Bush has her "husb...", then quickly said, "the president". If she had one shred of decency, she would resign. I believe, like C A said last week, we "can" forgive Colin Powell, but never Condaleeza Rice. She's as evil as the rest, and equally as incompetent!!
Hey Independent, I totally agree about the Press. I say the Press ain't gonna save us this time. Nearly every one is working for the $$ not for truth, justice, nor the American way. I'm an old lady, I remember when the press was our guardians against the tyranny of the state. Now they guard their wallets (who's in your wallet?). This whole Bush Empire is frightening. If their mouth is open they're lying. I've been a political junkie since JFK was nominated at the democratic convention to run for president. I watch C-span, all the debates,etc. Have for years. What scares me the most is the way this administration acts like they will be there forever. Like they are above the Constitution, the will of the people, Polls, like they know something we don't know. Their total arrogance has some reason for manifesting itself. I just wished I knew, even more I hope I'm wrong.
I like watching CSPAN-this way I get to hear directly from the horses mouth what is happening in politics. I go to the White House website to get transcripts from the speeches the President makes-and I verify them through other sources (I can't listen to him). I pretty much only watch MSNBC anymore-but slowed down considerably after the whole Anna-Nicole Smith debacle-didn't any of these stations realize that court t.v. was covering it and they didn't need to? I can't stomach an all day event 'leading up to' the presidential 'debate' which was really not much of a debate after all, and then the next days disection-good grief. The next election is 18 months away and it's already non-stop coverage. I remember after hurricane Katrina and Miles O'Brien & Anderson Cooper basically being verbally attacked because they kept asking anybody and everybody: WHY? WHAT HAPPENED? WHAT SHOULD HAVE BEEN DONE DIFFERENTLY? Everybody said that wasn't the time, as the gulf region needed to be helped. I thought they were great-they put people on the spot. Those days are few and far between. How would the average American know anything about Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI) and numbers of TBI if Bob Woodruff hadn't suffered from it? Nobody. The media wouldn't have reported it but did because it happened to one of their own (not discounting Mr. Woodruff at all here-I'm pleased that he brought it to the forefront). I've wondered since coming home to the US in 2003, what the Bush administration had on all the networks-cable and otherwise. It must be something, because so many 'anchors' and or 'journalist' walk on egg shells and refuse to ask the hard questions-they basically wait to be told what to say.
Whew - thanks guys for following up with some great observations about what is, laughingly, called News Coverage. To Gordon - IL: I don't have cable or satellite. I use dial-up for internet connection. (My phone company told me I should be glad I don't have to use smoke signals.) There are reasons that some people don't keep closely in touch that I address below. The reasons that I keep so in touch are several : 1) I have to admit that I am a news and politics junkie. I have been since living in Mississippi during the "Summer of Blood." 2) I have participated directly via campaigns (please don't hate me but I worked for Dole when he ran against Reagan the first time but that was not my only participation in subsquent years.) and, therefore, I kinda want to keep in touch with that world. 3) That participation is what opened my eyes to how trusting the general populace is about our federal government and how important it is for us to avoid the appearance of complacency. That old saw? All politics is local? That is really true. A person wil more likely to get involved or passionate when there is a detectable and immediate difference in his/her daily life based on the outcome of a specific issue. Whereas a person's opinion of his/her ability to acutally affect something at a national or global level is very low. Look at the voter turnouts. Compare that to other countries where people will WALK miles to be able to cast a vote. I don't believe it is merely complacency. My own family is far more "conservative" than I. After a lot of discussion, I've come to the conclusion that they really just want to feel protected and if they have to fight and feel passionate about Washington politics it makes them feel very VERY uncertain about the future. Therefore those blinders are really comforting. Another thing that is a kinda positive spin on that last point is one that I fall into myself sometime. I have SUCH faith and SUCH pride in this country and,especially, in that most magnificient document, the Constitution of the United States, that I really do feel that things will balance out over time. I have to fight that faith to help me keep active by realizing that the reason the constitution works is because it is not only "for" the people, it is truly "by" the people. That's me. That means I can't just sit by and wait for things to balance out. I have to work to make that happen. However, others are not necessarily being indifferent or complacent, they simply "trust" that our system will prevail. Ok - sermon over. I'll go sit in the corner for a while.
Gordon, there is anger, and it's everywhere. People are no longer coming up with excuses. Unfortunately, the majority of the people are expressing their anger through the internet, instead of out in the streets. Can you imagine if any other country in the world invaded Iraq for no reason? We need this Administration to be put on trial. Is anyone in DC going to do that? Highly unlikely. If they did, perhaps the rest of the world would have a little respect for us; perhaps we'd be able to regain some of the trust we have lost, along with everything else.
Jamie, Many thanks to your husband and you and your family for their service. I am happy to hear that he can now be referred to as "Mr." My husband is set to retire in '09 and like you and your family, we are holding our breath until that day comes. He will be going overseas a couple of times before then so we are not only holding our breath but keeping the lucky rabbit's foot, 4-leaf clover and lucky horseshoe handy just in case. This month was an especially bad month for our fellow military and their families with the death toll in Iraq over 100. Thank you again for service to your country. No matter what this administration tries to spin, those of us who are against this war and were from the beginning are very, very proud of our brave soldiers. Instead of the media pushing Tenant in our faces this week so he can sell more books, they should be showing the names of those lost so we never forget.
Tenet seems to have a problem.... Either he was duplicitous back in 2002 when, he was busy telling Incurious George that selling the lie (what he didn't think was a "slam dunk" could be sold as a "slam dunk") or he's being duplicitous claiming that's what he was saying back in 2002 and he was misquoted. The real losers? The professionals at the CIA -- who try their damnedest to get it correct -- and, of course, the American soldiers and Iraqi citizens who died, in no small part, because Tenet, as part of his fundamental nature, is duplicitous.
Scott, you pathetic troll. I am astounded it took nearly 40 posts for your predictible "but, but Clinton" BS. What's wrong, did mommy lock you out of the basement today?
Tomorrow is May 1st, 2007...four years after King George announced mission accomplished on the USS Abraham Lincoln...four years after major combat operations in Iraq had ended according to King George all decked out his military gear on the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln...if the mission was accomplished, what have the troops been doing for the last four years? Four years later, April 2007 will have one of the highest monthly death totals for US soldiers since the mission was accomplished back in April 2003...just another reminder of the incompetence of Bush, Chaney, Wolfowitz, Dumsfeld, Rice, etc...and to Jamie and your husband...thanks for serving our country and I am glad you are both alive...
I would really really like to meet all you guys (yes -even or especially you Scott in NV) for coffee. I have an idea that I am trying to implement myself. One on one, I am talking to people. By that I mean that I am NOT trying to push my thinking on them. I ask very carefully questions such as: What is your most pressing concern about national issues? (You'd be surprised by some of the answers.) What do you think we as individuals can do about that issue? How do you feel about (some other issue)? How did you come to that position? ----What I am trying to do, here, is simply to get people to think. To step back from the real stress of life to realize that each of us is very very important to this country and that even if we don't wear a uniform we have the responsibility and the honor of serving our country by participating in the process. I really, truly, sincerely, do not care about a person's opinion (although I could passionately disagree with it). What I care about is if that person is PARTICIPATING!! Who was it who said something along the lines that for evil to prosper requires only that the good do nothing? I know, I know. I'm a pollyanna. But, dammit, that is the way this "great experiment" was designed to work. I was supposed to stay in my corner but didn't. I promise. I'm going back there now. Boy am I in a preaching mood today.
Jamie - A big thank you to your husband, your family and yourself for your service. Congratulations and PEACE friend!!


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