Live Debate Video / Discussion Thread

Posted: Thursday, May 03, 2007 7:20 PM by Countdown

~~Click for LIVE VIDEO~~

Live from Simi Valley, California, it's the longest named event in MSNBC history:

"The MSNBC, Politico.com, Reagan Library GOP Presidential Candidates Debate"

Let's get it on!

refresh for updates

7:20 -- The ten candidates doing the walkover together certainly was something new and different, it sorta reminded us of "Meet the Legends of the Boston Celtics Night". If you're keeping score at home, we counted just three American Flag lapel pins.

7:36 -- Governor Arnold Schwarzenegger escorts Nacy Reagan into the room to a standing ovation. The Governor was invited to deliver a welcoming speech to the crowd tonight, but turned the offer down and will be sitting with the former First Lady. "The governor believes this is a great opportunity to listen and learn," said his spokesman, Adam Mendelsohn. "This is the first in what could be a lot of debates in California."

7:45 -- The candidates take the stage, ten men in dark suits. Keith: "The choice of clothing seems remarkably consistant."

7:56 -- "Like heifers at the county fair."

8:02 -- Certainly the first major debate held in the same room as a big airplane

8:05 -- Looks like John McCain's debate plan is "go angry early"

8:10 -- It's interesting how the criticism of the war in Iraq so far has been discussed in the passive voice. "Mistakes have been made" -- no one has yet named "The Mistaker"

8:19 -- Jim Gilmore: We need to keep after Osama bin Laden because "he is a symbol". Actually, he's the guy who attacked us and got away with with, but we get the point. Romney follows us "He will pay and he will die."

8:22 -- McCain just smiled at the end the sentence: "and I will follow (Osama) into the gates of Hell!" as if he actually said "and I will follow him into the gates of Sea World."

8:25 -- "What about the ferrets Rudy?! What about the ferrets?!" -- Sorry just fantasizing that guy was in the crowd tonight.

8:27 -- Hmm, a question about 'organs' -- Didn't really see that coming.

8:30 -- That will be a glorious day of human liberty and freedom." -- it was the answer to a 'repealing Roe v Wade' question - but really, it could work for anything tonight.

8:33 -- Not sure we're buying Mitt Romney's explantion of his pro-life flip flop, but damn he looks good in that suit.

8:37 -- Tommy Thompson believes a company should be able to fire an employee over his/her sexual preference.

8:42 -- Worse than any of that, Duncan Hunter mentions CNN on our live MSNBC/Politico.com/Reagan Library/GOP Presidential Candidates Debate?! How dare you sir!

8:46 -- Tommy Thompson "I vetoed like 1900 things"... many of them bills.

8:48 -- Ok, somebody on that panel IS SNIFFLING INTO THEIR MICROPHONE! CUT IT OUT!

8:51 - from the comments section below: Ken Tallahassee FL "Every time tehyve said ronald Reagan I took ashot....if this keeps up, someonecall 911..........."

8:53 -- We miss Mike Gravel

8:55 -- Did you see "An Inconvenient Truth"?

8:57 -- "Mothers Behind Bars, and the Children Left Behind" -- we think that's coming up on MSNBC later tonight.

8:59 -- Stem Cell Federal Funds - 6 No's, 1 Yes (McCain), and 3 Maybe-Sorta's

9:06 -- Tommy Thompson: "The biggest problem we have in America is the alternative minimum income tax." ... um... really?

No... seriously?

9:12 -- Well that show of hands on "Who here does NOT believe in evolution?" needed a followup. It was so fast we're not even really sure who raised their hand, but it was three or four of the candidates. We'll be reviewing that tape, count on it.

9:17 -- for the record, it's over 25,000 American soldiers wounded in Iraq, according to the AP this week

9:20 -- With all precincts reporting TheNewsHole is ready to report the following results:

Mitt Romney: winner, extremely smooth, and the most handsome man in the debate.

Rudy Giuliani: 'much improved', stuck to his stance on abortion which took guts in that room

John McCain: 'stiff' and "slightly scary", seemed to answer every question with a series of campaign speeches, filled with the same rhetoric we've all grown tired of.

Tommy Thompson: kinda wacky and 'pretty much wrong on everything'

Ron Paul 'the closest thing to Mike Gravel we had"

Huckabee: 'seems really friendly'

The Unknown Sniffler: Sir, you made this whole thing creepy and uncomfortable to any one listening on headphones. Whoever you are, we hope you lose.

Too many other guys to rate... please feel free to do so in the comments. We're going home!

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Comments

As per the GOP tonight where you are bound to hear all sorts of cries about "patriotism", has every one seen this article by Newsweek's Christopher Dickey on how Nationalism is not Patriotism? "He [Orwell] said nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism, which Orwell defined as “devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force upon other people.” "But American nationalism, unlike American patriotism, is different-and dangerous." "The second part of Orwell’s definition tells you why. Nationalism is the habit of identifying oneself with a single nation or an idea, “placing it beyond good and evil and recognizing no other duty than that of advancing its interests.” Patriotism is essentially about ideas and pride. Nationalism is about emotion and blood. The nationalist’s thoughts “always turn on victories, defeats, triumphs and humiliations. … Nationalism is power-hunger tempered by self-deception.” The article goes on and on about the comparison between the US and Germany circa 1939. MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13721928/site/newsweek/

Chris Eldridge, Harrisburg PA (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 8:04 PM)

This From Politico's Blog David Mark in The Spin Room Five nights a week MSNBC host Keith Olbermann hosts a Bush-bashing, liberal-tinted show that can say little (or nothing at all) good about Republicans. Tonight, however, Olbermann is in the belly of the beast, a presidential candidates’ debate where he must straddle the line between opinionated talk show host and impartial analyst. It will be interesting to see how many White House hopefuls he can snag to interview during the post-debate spinfest. Nothing about all the Rebublicans Covering The Democratic Debate about 98 percent of the coverage was from Republicans

Ron Mills, Ft. Lauderdale, FL (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 8:07 PM)

McCain cannot decide if Iraq is fixed or needs to be fixed. -- has tried it both ways.

David (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 8:08 PM)

The 800 Pound Gurrila "Ronald Reagan" is in the room They All Want to be Ronald Reagan, problem is: That will work well with the Conservitive Activist, and may even get the their Party's Nod. the rest of America, beleives if it was not for BUSH 43 Reagan would be the WORST president in American History. as a Side note all the Neo-Cons who have destroyed our County along with Bush 43, all came from the Reaagan Admin, ie Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz Poindexter the whole gang

Ron Mills, Ft. Lauderdale, FL (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 8:13 PM)

We are not guarding the borders in Iraq. We did not send enough people to do so. Yet we blame others for the traffic across the border. Is this one of those unidentified mistakes? Are we really sure whether it is the government or a rogue faction?

David (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 8:32 PM)

Huckabee says we should be good stewards and leave things better than we found it..........too bad he meant only the environment, not the executive branch.

Sherri, Charleston WV (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 8:33 PM)

What is with these guys? Ronald Reagan was a great American, but do we really have to evoke his name every other breath? Let the man rest in peace......

Sherri, Charleston WV (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 8:35 PM)

Is McCain taking the same juice Barry Bonds is taking?

Sherri, Charleston WV (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 8:36 PM)

Looks like Chris is bringing out his little tin can of whoopass on Huckabee

Sherri, Charleston WV (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 8:41 PM)

Every time tehyve said ronald Reagan I took ashot....if this keeps up, someonecall 911...........

Ken Tallahassee FL (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 8:50 PM)

Very poor questions by Chris Mathews. Let discuss real issues like social security and taxes.

Steve McCloskey (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 8:51 PM)

Tommy Thompson just said that it would be all right for a private employer to fire a "homosexual" employee if he objected to homosexuality on moral grounds. Thompson, of all people, should know that discrimination based on sexual orientation has been illegal in Wisconsin since 1982, and Wisconsin was the first state to ban it. Is Thompson now ashamed of being from Wisconsin, or did he just forget that he presided over that immorality for 14 years? I, for one, never heard him take that position when he was governor, and when he had a republican legislature behind him with the means to change the law. I guess the fact that he would say such a thing tonight just makes him the ultimate panderer. And now he just said he would govern based on "principles and ideas," but don't forget that although he claims to be "pro-life," he is also very much pro stem cell research. To put the most positive spin on that, I guess it makes him a pragmatist, along the lines of Richard Nixon, although that's not saying very much, is it? But at least he had some concrete idea about what to do in Iraq, which no one else was able to articulate. This entire debate is a farce. John McCain said a couple of times that spending is out of control. He forgets that Republicans have controlled Congress for almost all of the last 13 years, and apparently, they aren't able to get a grip on themselves. Thompson said that he made all kinds of vetoes during his term, but he fails to mention that he left Wisconsin drowning in deficits. Now Huckabee says that it is too early to give Bush a grade on Iraq "in the middle of the exam." Wha????? Enough of this nonsense. I've got to catch a taxi and get out of the valley of Death.

Bonnie, Madison (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 8:55 PM)

As a small businessman I am deeply concerned with the continued decline inm the ability to actually build products here is the U.S. and being able to sell them at cost competitive with those products built overseas.

Gene Bayer (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:05 PM)

I couldn,t agree more Bonnie. They are all talking in abstract, like some Phantom Government was responsible for the past decade. Some of them also went beyond pitiful as to try to add "some Democrats" to the long list of Repubs caught in scandals, indictments, lies, supaenas, and every other skull cracking disaster that's come down the Kathryn Harris Turnpike.

Sherri, Charleston WV (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:06 PM)

Why can we not stop penalizing productive citizens by having a tax code that takes more and more of their hard earned income to support the irresponsible spending of Congress.

Gene Bayer (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:07 PM)

Here we go children.......Rude had trouble telling the difference between Sunni and SHia. I think they should have had to answer that one ahead of time in writing....Dems too.

Sherri, Charleston WV (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:13 PM)

Does anyone have a numerical count on the Ronald Reagan?

Sherri, Charleston WV (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:16 PM)

Has anyone heard a big idea tonight? Just one?

David (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:18 PM)

How funny it is that these people believe the American people are so unsophisticated, naive and ignorant. The wealthy fall into the Alternative Minimm Tax, the wealthy people who have more 2 million dollars or more pay death taxes. Most of us will never get a tax cut by what these people are saying. How do you know when a republican is lying, his lips are moving. Mr. Paul seems to be the most honest, real and knowledgable candidate amoung the pannel. Wow he just said he would not try and regulate the internet he's my guy. My goodness Rudy is just like Hillary. They must be using the same coach. I will never vote for Hillary Clinton or any of these people

Laurie Pederson (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:19 PM)

ID cards -- there is a big brother idea!!

David (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:20 PM)

I just turned the TV off so the kids could play wii Why do they need the Regan stuff? Different time. Different problems. They still seem to be kissing up to the religious zelots. All life is beutiful.....unless your an Iraci, our a young american who's only option to the military is a 'would you like fries with that?" job. I geuss full birth abortion is ok in the repblican party. Tommy plzzzzz! Go away already!

Barb Dawson Racine, Wisconsin (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:23 PM)

Are you kidding me!!!! It is amazing that not one Republican canidate has a clue of what is actually going on or for that matter in touch with reality. This has got to be the absolute bottom of the barrel for this party.

Chris Casey, Steubenville, OH (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:24 PM)

MSNBC is doing a poor job of having the candidates names up enough when they are speaking. The name comes up for about a second, only occasionally. The public doesn't know all of these candidates by name and the best service MSNBC could be doing as a journalistic institution is allowing citizens to at least know who is speaking in the debate. Have the name up all the time or at least more than it is up now

Frank Meegan, Chicago IL (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:24 PM)

This drinking game really, really hurts. Mentioning 9/11 in the first 10 seconds? Jesus.

Ashley, Baton Rouge, LA (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:25 PM)

If this is the party of ideas, they are in a lot of trouble

Chris Casey, Steubenville, OH (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:25 PM)

As long as we are on the subject of the national ID card, I thought it would be useful to note that Wisconsin was also the first state to prohibit the required implantation of microchips. Interestingly enough, this goes directly to Tommy Thompson's current relevance, as he is on the Board of VeriChip, which manufactures the first FDA-approved RFID chip for implantation in humans. If anyone wants to better understand the scary importance of the national ID issue, I suggest you read Ira Levin's 1970 novel "This Perfect Day." Now I really have to go, as the big balloon is waiting to carry me safely out of Oz. There's no place like home, there's no place like home, there's no place like home. By the way, Tommy, after this, I don't think you should come home.

Bonnie, Madison (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:27 PM)

If you ain't havin any more Clinton, you sure as hedoublehockysticks ain't havin no Bush.

Sherri, Charleston WV (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:27 PM)

I find that I have had to change the channel. After watching my country's Constitution being raped by Bush-Cheney for the last 6 years that my tolerance for blatant bullshit, especially Republican flavored, is just not what it used to be. I do not know who will be the next President, but I can guarantee you that he will not be any of these twisted men.

Todd, New Orleans, LA (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:33 PM)

National ID card is a little to much like George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty Four for me.

Chris Casey, Steubenville, OH (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:35 PM)

Sheri; In the beginning I was wondering of Chris was going to say Ronald Reagan more than the candidates combined?

David (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:35 PM)

Ron Paul is the only qualified candidate, and is the reason that other republicans hate him. Too bad he didn't get to talk more.

Scott, Tucson (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:37 PM)

Sherri--Let's dare them to repeal the 22d amendment and see whether Bill or George wins in 2008. My money is on Bill.

Bonnie, Madison (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:37 PM)

The sniffling into the mike was really annoying. Don't know if the offender was an interviewer or a candidate, but it really detracted from the debate.

Darleen Medford, Oregon (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:44 PM)

Please enlighten us as to who the Republican candidates were who raised their hands indicating that they do not believe in evolution.

Paula Newcomb (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:45 PM)

why can't Gravel switch sides at whim? The levels of conformity in that hangar scared me. Those candidates "frighten me. They frighten me." Somebody said something about how our country can do better. I agree. The entire field on either side is pretty much crap. Honestly, in 08? If Hagel doesn't run, I might either vote for Nader or "Other." Other being...I dunno. Myself...Trey Parker...Chuck Norris. As long as they're not as hack-y as everybody else we've seen. Maybe Stewart/Colbert? At least watching a debate with those two wouldn't make me feel like I've wasted 90 minutes of my life...

Brandon, Mississippi (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:51 PM)

Ron Paul had a position I could handle and even support. His non-interference foreign policy, he'd respect and protect for public privacy, and his last and best comment about protecting habeas corpus was fundamentally the best! Goldwater republicans like him are certainly tolerable and have the nation's best interest at heart. We are all in this together. The others quiet frankly are quite scary suggesting a NEW war with Iran as if that wouldn't be far FAR worse than Iraq is now. Iran has no such internal divisions nor has it been suffering from a 15-year arms embargo. As paul pointed out, we survived an era with 40,000 Soviet nuclear weapons pointed at us and here we are threatening to go into ANOTHER preemptive war over a third-world nation that doesn't even have any. This fear mongering has become the standard trademark of the far right republicans quite unfortunately and this is EXTREMELY disturbing. According to John Dean's book, about 25% of the human race are known to be just such "authoritarians." We actually see this play out in the blind support for the war as there is always about 25% who support it no matter what. Authoritarians (according to EXTENSIVE psychological studies conducted since WWII) are almost always likely to be the far right conservatives. Only 1% are likely to be liberal. Using this tactic of fear and hate places the far right neo-conservatives right on par with fascists and nationalists, which brings to mind how much the Nazis hated homosexuals as well. We must remember that authoritarians are NOT restricted to history or any particular borders. IT IS IN US AS A RACE! It is these people who are hungry for power at any cost (as per Orwell’s book 1984) and who deliberately provoke hate and fear as a means of galvanizing their movement.

Chris Eldridge, Harrisburg PA (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 9:58 PM)

All the candidates (rich, white men) clearly believe in the sanctity of life... just like Geo. W.... So, were do they stand on executions, on sending our men/women off to be killed on foreign soil, on not saving lives by refusing proven research tactics? They believe that the BEGINNING of life is sacred, but once born, it's everyone for him/herself! Somehow, life isn't so precious after we leave the womb, is it?

Linda Johnson, Sun City West, AZ (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 10:01 PM)

Most of them, except for Ron Paul, sound like they are ready to invade Iran in the morning. Good Lord....the shameless fear mongering of these guys !!!

Cindy, Texas (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 10:03 PM)

Oh, my God, the balloon took off without me and left me stranded in Oz. How ironic it seems that 10 men, all dressed as pallbearers, should find nothing inconsistent between their uniform advocacy (except for Congressman Paul) of endless killing in Iraq, Iran, and anywhere else they can think of, and their presumption in telling American women that they have no right to make their own decisions about their bodies and their lives. Where's Glinda when you need her? I so want to go home.

Bonnie, Madison (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 10:03 PM)

Frank Meegan, Chicago IL: I completely agree about showing (or NOT showing, rather) the names; I only know three of these men by sight. MSNBC, listen up! Chris M was sort of bullying the candidates down the line. (HA!) Mitt Romney came accross as the most pompous windbag on the stage. McCain seemed more coherent than in the past few months, but he's still nowhere near the level he was four years ago (I groaned after the added the bit about the Grand Canyon after answering the "Do you believe in evolution?" Q). Paul was the most passionate, but looks like he's about to wither into dust. Giuliani seemed to be out of his league. A lot of tap-dancing around questions ("Would you employ Karl Rove, yes or no?" never was answered. A few times, especially when Romney was speaking, I had to flip the channel - I'd rather watch the Pirates lose to the Brewers than listen to this garbage. Oh, and I'm glad I'm not playing the "Reagan/9-11/Iran" shot games. My liver would be crawling out for air.

JAM, Pittsburgh PA (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 10:10 PM)

I was curious why no one pressed the GOP candidates on their nearly unanimous hard tack on Iran. “Iran cannot be allowed to get nukes” seemed to be an agreed upon (with the notable exception of Dr. Paul) position. Why and how is Iran different that North Korea (the DPRK)? Clearly, the DPRK has been allowed to get them. I don’t ask with the view of casting blame inasmuch as the DPRK’s acquisition clearly came under both the Clinton and Bush (43) administrations. Are the Republicans suggesting the Kim Jong Il may be assumed to be more rational than the “mullahs” of Iran? How is it that Kim Jong Il has been allowed to acquire nukes and yet the leaders of Iran may not? It’s difficult to see how the DPRK can be assumed to be more “rational” than the leaders of Iran. Are they not both to be assumed to be acting “strategically crazy” (i.e., the “logic of craziness”)? Can it really be that geography only—the Middle East due to oil and/or Israel or some other criterion/criteria—is the only demarcation? Will someone explain it to me? (Please assume I’m a “six-year old” as Denzel kept saying in the movie Philadelphia.

curious george, carlsbad, ca (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 10:44 PM)

Could have been better moderated as the three manchurian candidates got most of the questions and time. Ron Paul is clearly what this country needs, not more of the same. He's the voice of the people and the media should take off their earmuffs and blinders. Paul's popularity shows in the live votes here on MSNBC and in the alternative media. This is where the alternative media meets the mainstream media - it's expression vs. suppression.

Chris M. West Virginia (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 10:48 PM)

Somebody please go over the tape and identify who raised their hands when asked if they did not believe in evolution. I thought I saw at least 3 hands. I really need to know.

Leigh Bielenberg, Atlanta Georgia (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 11:05 PM)

The issue I find most frustrating is the issue of immigration, and how in these debates there was hardly any discussion (from Dems or Republicans) about our own businesses in this country who hire literally boatloads of these people--whether knowingly or not. Granted, the jobs they typically occupy are the kinds that most Americans today don't want to do; they pay less than dirt, have crappy working conditions, and some are extremely dangerous (such as meatpacking). If we are serious about the immigration issue then I think the question really becomes if we are ALSO willing to face this dark underbelly of American industry that gives incentive for (or in some cases criminally imports) illegal immigrants to live and work here in combination with tighter border control and document checks.

Amy C., NC (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 11:10 PM)

Yay! for Ron Paul! You did GREAT!

James Cole (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 11:14 PM)

I think the debates should be run like American Idol...Since more people turn out to vote for American Idol "singers" every week than people turn out to vote for political candidates in most elections, presidential included, why not have the candidates debate, and then let the country vote?...Whoever is in the bottom three, can sing, or dance, or debate, and then the country votes again, and the candidate with the least amount of votes is voted off and is out of the race...By early to mid-2008, the Dems and Repubs will have one candidate left each and more people will be involved than in the normal election process...I really don't care who people vote for as long as they are informed and participate and vote in larger numbers than American Idol gets...Since more people vote and participate in American Idol than in most political elections, lets start voting people off the debates...just an idea...

George, Hammonton, NJ (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 11:22 PM)

================ Could have been better moderated as the three manchurian candidates got most of the questions and time. Ron Paul is clearly what this country needs, not more of the same. He's the voice of the people and the media should take off their earmuffs and blinders. Paul's popularity shows in the live votes here on MSNBC and in the alternative media. This is where the alternative media meets the mainstream media - it's expression vs. suppression. Chris M. West Virginia (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 10:48 PM) ========================= Well said Chris. I agree. I wonder what Olbermann thinks of Ron Paul. Did you notice that even after he has clearly won the most support on all the MSNBC polls and real people posting, they still didnt want to talk about him?

Cindy, Texas (Sent Friday, May 04, 2007 12:16 AM)

Linda Johnson "They believe that the BEGINNING of life is sacred, but once born, it's everyone for him/herself! Somehow, life isn't so precious after we leave the womb, is it?" That was a most EXCELLENT COMMENT! If they believed that however, they wouldn't be able to use hate and fear into scaring us to vote for them. I especially took acception with their pro-war statement that Iran is supplying so many weapons to Iraq. They are trying to PROVOKE a war by argue that Iranian weapons are killing U.S. troops when they fail to also tell you that there are also “U.S. weapons” in the hands of insurgents killing U.S. troops, as there are black market weapons from all over the world. Finding Iranian weapons in Iraq is about as surprising as finding a U.S. car in Mexico, especially since they were helping the Shiitti fight Saddam long before we even got there. Even their use of the term insurgents was specifically intended to try and implicate countries like Syria and Iran when in fact, 99.99% of the people fighting in Iraq are disgruntled Iraqis. KEEP THEM HONEST KEITH!

Chris Eldridge, Harrisburg PA (Sent Friday, May 04, 2007 12:18 AM)

Dear Countdown, I find myself posting here as everytime I try to email you I get a fatal error, and know someday my computer will blow up. I havefound Mr Olbermann's comentary to be the best I have heard since the 60's and look forward to his observations when I nightly view Countdown. Though some might say this is horrible brown nosing it is't and that's my story and I am stickin to it (someone pasthe Kleenex please). Now to the point of this post. Perhaps it is tie Mr. Olberma and redes that we reber a few things about the debate tonight, and the Democratic debate a week ago...you are free to use any of these thoughts in your next comentary. All othe participants have talked abou their "years of experiance and service in goverment". We see routinly reminded by the media and politicians of "the Reagan or Clinton eras" as if refering to a dynasty, which in light of the current resident of the White House and yes, a future hopeful, it seems this is the direction this country is headed. Consider how many of today's Senator's and Congressmen are the sons/daughters of Senator's and Congressmen. If this is our view of what thisemocracy was to be,then perhaps we need to reassess our divorce from the Crown and rejoin our patrons in England. Today's party leaders seem bent on careful planning on how to maintain a control of a majority of "the seats". Afraid to be daring, original, or trying to follow the CURRENT will of the American people, instead trying to relive "Camelot" or "the Reagan 80's". If this group were in charge in te 1700's and 1800's there would never have been a Declaration of ndependence or Emancipation Proclaimation. I grow weary of career politicians sputing off about how they follow the "ideals of our Founding Fathers" when they have forgotten the Foundng Father's ideas for political leaders....hat political office was a duty (ok this is archaic) of successful landowners at retirment to give back the bounty afforded to them. In return the counry would move forward because it was led by those who knew how to prosper develope. Polotics was neverr seen as a career. As for religion it had no place in goverment, hence the seperation of church and state. Don't believe me?....go read the personal letters of Jefferson, Washington, Madison etc. available to the public in Virginia's museams and I am sure others around this country. Then read Orwell's Animal Farm, and 1984. Prior to 2004 the rest of the world was willing to forgive us 43 due to Florida. Afterwards though that forgivness wained. If we are to recapture the spirit this country was born from it is time to demand decisive results from OUR representatives, and hold them accountable for their failure to care out the will of the MAJORITY, rather then split hairs over benchmarks verses timetables verses your definition of having sex as opposed to mine. They say history repeats itself, and so it has as our goverment continues muddle itself in medocraty, domino theories, speculation about possible terrorist scenarios that are then ignored only to hype a new fear so that career polaticians can justify their "careers" paying off the voters in their districs with bridges to nowhere, or a flag flown over the Capital. Let us hope soon history repeats itself with leaders who are not afraid to do what is right rather then worry about a chaos that is already in progress thousands of miles away, while ignoring the chaos of Katrina and decimation of our military. A proposal something to appeal to everyone.....withdraw from Iraq after telling the UN we are turning it over to them to handle, and we will no longer be involved. That will please the conservatives who feel we should ignor the UN and also please the liberals who feel the rest of the world has better insights into dealing with problamatic issues, and better able to solve this things.

Richard Mayfield, Woodbridge, Virginia (Sent Friday, May 04, 2007 12:50 AM)

I'm hearing Mitt Romney "won" the debate. I disagree. He is just too religious to be electable. It colors his judgment in a way I don't think most Americans are comfortable with. According to MSNBC's poll, Ron Paul is the winner. Yeah, that's good.

R. Northern California (Sent Friday, May 04, 2007 1:17 AM)

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