The News Hole seems to be having a lot of fun with headlines using Mr. Cheney's first name. The one I want to see is when he is beaten.

Linda:  Great list, but let me add:

-- Preventing your daddies presidential papers from going public by classifying them (one of the first things you did when you were appointed President)

-- The massive hiring of political cronies and supporters in all areas of the Federal Fovernment, not just in the Injustice Department

-- The disappearance or deletion of records and communications starting with any of King George's damaging "military service" (draft dodging) records.

-- Outing not only a CIA agent, but her entire brass plate company as well so there is absolutely no intelligence on the Iran nuclear program (nice way to start a brand new shiny way with no actual intelligence requiring cover-up)

-- The privatization of entire areas of the Federal Government so taxpayer money goes into the hands of you campaign donors and corporate sponsors

-- The failure to respond to the worst national disaster in this country because the people affected were mostly black and mostly democratic as were their local and state leaders

-- Staying in a school classroom for a photo op while the nation was under attack and then hiding out nearly all day before assuming a leadership role in the government

-- Attacking the patriotism of anyone with a different point of view or facts contradicting your lies

-- Using signing statements to nullify laws

-- Demanding "up or down votes" in speeches, thru talking heads, and media ads for congressional action you want and then using legal technicalities to obstruct "up or down votes" for legislation you don't want

-- Stealing 2 presidential elections (let us not forget Florida and Ohio)

And those are the ones that come to mind immediately.  There's plenty more.

Linda and Sue...don't forget all the Reps in jail...Duke Cunningham...all the Abramoff players in including Jack himself, Robert Ney, Michael Scanlon, David Safavian, and J. Steven Griles all in the big house for basically funneling money to the RNC...DeLay and his redistricting in Texas to ensure no Dems win in the House or Senate..Delay will be in court soon...don't forget Scooter Libby's lies...and the list grows and grows...plus, violating the fourth amendment with the warrantless wiretaps, which are illegal because they are issued without probable cause which the fourth amendment requires...Dick's creation of the fourth branch of government which doesn't exist in the constitution...etc, etc...we will be running out of blog space soon...

lol George - those too.  For shame how much scandal there is.  

I want all these criminals in the Big House.

Much thanks for the comments by Independent, Linda and C A!!  

To CA first, You make very good points about how we would be perceived by Iranian people and the need for some understanding of what NOT to do especially but my take on it is that this is not in any way directed at the Iranian people and I think they would be thrilled to see the moral obligation of Americans trying to prevent yet another travesty.  Our invasion of Iraq crosses over into war crimes against humanity and anyone silent on this issue has some questions to answer.  Not wanting a repeat of that we need to be more pro-active especially when considering the divisiveness of this admin.

Linda, I really think that it is important for the American people to revisit the hostage!  It may have been an embarrasement but it did end peacefully and given that it was the end result of our own coup to control their oil who can blame them.  If we start with the false premises that a single hostage crisis damns a nation to Amarican’s “eternal hate” then what about Pearl Harbor?  What about the Baton Death March?  Why are France and Germany Now allies after two world wars not more than a century ago?  You see, the gigantic American ego NEEDS to be challenged with more sound reason to break the hate.  Heck, we are even becoming friends with Vietnam recently so understanding that it does not take a war to eventually normalize relations will either be a healthy thing for America or we will go on starting wars and bombing counties into the stone age like Israel did to ALL OF LEBANON last year just because of a single border attack.  We need to wake up, or we will continue down this path where it is not just the administration, but the American people who bought the who Iraqi war thinking THEY (AMERICA) could do no wrong.  That is the premise we much decisively challenge!  

Independent, Much thanks for the feedback and civil rebuttal!  

“My assumption is that you wish to change the viewpoint of the American public toward Iran. Is that right?”  Yes!

“What would this demonstration involve? Speeches? Signs? Music?”  I think just being their showing our support would be enough.  Carry a few signs… March down a public street… Speeches I’m sure would follow even if non were planned.

“You will not be able to hold a public forum in Iran. Iranians are not allowed to hold public forums.” Then we don’t go… I think and would hope an exception would be made.  I’m sure it would have to be under some government umbrella and fully approved.  I have no intention of posing as some tourist and then bringing out my banner.

“How do you plan to measure success of such an event should you be actually able to carry it out?”  I would measure success if the media in America picked it up.  We need to spark a debate … draw a line in the sand against American tyranny/imperialism/colonialism/oil glutteny…

“That being said, I would still completely oppose your plan for an event to show opposition to any American policy, be it ever so evil, if that event is held on foreign soil.”  I think it makes it more poineint and is much needed as it helps to show that they are not our enemies.  I honestly don’t see what the hang up is about speaking out against american elsewhere regardless of what the topic is.  Complacent Americans cant even get their but out from watching the American Idol to go vote or to march against the Iraq war.   At least in other countries you have people that see how wrong America is and thus you have more people that listen to you and you reach an awdiance outside of America with your message.  Bush and Cheney have no problem knocking Dems while visiting Iraq or Isreael or wherever world stage they happen to be on…

“I will not support any movement that uses the phrase "American Imperialism". Changing it to "this administration's policy of imperialism" would help.” I suppose the people of Germany in 1939 felt the same way… that their country could do no wrong but where are the protesters or the soldiers refusing to fight or the soldiers who would vehimently say they would report war crimes when 60% say they would not.  Who are all these people torturing Arabs and Americans in secret prisons???  I know Cheney and Bush get around a lot but surely it is more than just they… Any who are these wonderous 25% who support bush even now?  The Nazi party averaged only 32% of the vote in three elections leading up to their dictatorship.  So to say it is just a scant few or JUST THE ADMINISTRATION is entirely wrong.  It reflects an overall arrogant disposition by the American people to even be in this position and our leaders (both dem and ALL the republicans) who I believe knew fully well that this was a sham just to get us over their to confront Iran and pump the whole place dry.  

“Imagine the backlash if such efforts as you propose actually gets media play. There goes any hope we have of not being labeled as terrorists-supporters”  Dems are already considered terrorist supporters.  Much like America needed to challeng back the whole “communist” label in the 50s to put an end to the rediculous witch hunt, so to we need to stand up to their most fearmongering bullets they have “TERROR”.  WE have become the terrorists to take over another country like we did.  

You also seem to be dead set to pin your hopes on just getting rid of Bush… The neocon party is just a little bit more deep than that and I think Hillary is even one of them as she WAS a republican before she married bill.  Your hope only changes the name plate, my hope is to get the american people to stand up and say NO MORE FREEKEN WAR…. NOT IN IRAQ, NOT IN IRAN…

“I not only strongly disagree with your proposal, I would prefer it not even be discussed on the blog.”  Blogs are an amazing tool to bring out opinions from a vast repository of experience and perception.  

Thanks for the list of transgressions Linda!  I think you forgot the use of Native American money by Abromoff I think it was... There was the scandle in the world bank, the rigging of elections, the total even negilgent botch of Katrina, and probably a few others still!  

P.S. The heat is really picking up against the administration... maybe we can expect them to raise the terror alert of report some news about terror cells to drum up the base!

Thanks Chris!  I'm of the mind that I really don't give a flying fig about how people in THIS country perceive ME because of my opposition to the war, this administration and its' policies-even if I were to go and do protest my government in a foreign nation.

People slammed the Dixie Chicks because they spoke out against Bush while they were in the UK.  Oh my, that was such a naughty thing to do (insert eyeroll here).  For whatever reason, Americans have this idea that it's perfectly okay to express our superiority while living or touring in foreign countries, but it's inappropriate for us to speak out against a man, his policies, and wanting to go to war for NO reason.  

Overseas we have a reputation of being arrogant assholes, and I can assure you it isn't from people like the Dixie Chicks, it is from people that really think everybody and everything should be like it is in this country, and have absolutely no problem expressing that-WHILE THEY ARE OVERSEAS!

Before anyone tries to knock me down a few pegs in regard to how people feel overseas, don't bother.  I've lived in two other countries, and have visited many, many others in the past 21 years-the last being four years ago in the UK!  

So yeah, let's worry about what other people think about us elsewhere because we decry the hell our president has brought upon thousands of people.  Let's continue to let them think that were all evil like this administration.  As far as I'm concerned, that's just one more way of giving Bush approval for what he has done!

PEACE!

Chris: I am in total agreement that we need to be more pro-active so that Bush and his cronies don't rush us into another war (or mess I should say) in Iran. But a peace rally in Iran won't do it. It will give this administration ammunition to say look how we have to protect the American people. We even have traitors among us holding rallies in Iran. Pelosi had the right idea when she visited Iran. Her vsiit should have been followd up with other visits from other prmominent Dems. And no one could say anything about usurping a President's right to spearhead foreign policy without being undermined by others because this President (GW) needs undermining. But many of those other prominent Dems are too busy campaigning. Peace rallies are all in good, but how about we have some pretty big rallies here in support of ending our conflict in Iraq and using diplomatic approaches with Iran before we travel to Iran to hold them. But also let me say this. If Iran does not in some way or form back down from building nuclear weapons and continue to threaten Israel (even after we use all the diplomatic appraoches we can) we do need to take out their facilities, not by invasion, but by air. Then it will be back to the drawing board as to what to do about N. Korea. These recent negotiations are superficial. If we think N. Korea is going to back down from possesssing addition nuclear weapons we are fooling ourselves. Both Iran and N. Korea want to be armed to the teeth. And it would not surprise me if N. Korea started something in the near future knowing the US military is strecthed really thin in the middle east. If they invaded S. Korea whoi is going to stop them. We are not prepared to fight on two or three fronts regardless of our military power unless we were willing to use nukes.      

The heat is really picking up against the administration... maybe we can expect them to raise the terror alert of report some news about terror cells to drum up the base!
Chris Eldridge, Harrisburg PA (Sent Thursday, June 28, 2007 3:58 PM)

Yeah, Chris, I agree!! I think they will most likely add a color too, i.e. "The New & Improved Fear-Mongering Color"!! They make me sick and I pray nightly justice is handed down to the entire group of fear-mongering criminals!!

PEACE!!

Jamie:  One of Michael Moore's stories is about people in foreign countries who are impressed with him asking:  "Are there any more like you over there."  He responds by telling them that there are millions like him.  And he's right.  

I don’t believe in a pre-emptive war C A.  As Ron Paul aptly pointed out, if we can live through an era with the Soviet president banging his shoe on the podium swearing “they will bury us” while actually possessing tens of thousands of nuclear weapons, we can EASILY live through an era where a country makes a lot of noise but neither has a navy, air force, a strategic missile force, or even just a few small bombs.  Do you see the false delema here?  

Furthermore, I happened to be walking through the room when the president of Iran gave his speech at the United Nations last fall.  It was jaw-dropping!!  Not one word of hate and a CONSTANT / CONSTANT reiteration of peace, world justice and love for EVERY nation and Every person.  Thus, when given the ultimate opportunity to threaten the world as the soviets did, he brought a solid and heartfelt message of peace.  Considering what the bush administration would have us believe I thought that a very welcomed message as I too was very worried about his past threats to Israel.  I have no hate at all for the Israeli people and respect them every bit as I do every other race.  But I for one think President Ahmadinejad’s words were just rhetoric.  If we handle the situation fairly without such threats – OFFERING IRAN A GUARENTEE THAT WE WOULD NOT ATTACK THEM – I think they would come to the table like Libya did.  To me – If I was Iran -  Bush’s Axis of Evil speech would certainly be encouraging me to build as many nuclear weapons as I could.  That is how the cycle works yet we seem to be utterly oblivious to how much we ourselves spur countries to look for such weapons to defend themselves from the “rogue superpower” we’ve become.

ALL nations have a right to nuclear energy and reprocessing.  Argentina alone has enough nuclear materials to make over a thousand atomic bombs yet I don’t hear very much complaints about that and that isn’t even an all that stable part of the world.  

North Korea is not going to attack South Korea.  Those countries were normalizing relations and there were even initial talks about unification when Clinton was president.  We can not just go around attacking people we fear.  That is tyranny and will spark far more terrorism and hate towards us and rightfully so.

P.S. If you never heard Ahmadinejad’s speech at the UN, you should give it a listen.  He did not just mention peace once or twice – it was over and over!

Jamie, Thanks also for your comments!  I too see no problem with raising one’s voice in a different land.  Isn’t that basically what Michael More just did with his new movie… showed how broken and corrupt the US medical system is (yeah… with doctors getting paid up to 100K a year to prescribe strong psychiatric drugs to kids as reported on CNN just today) by using the Cuban medical system as a perfect example?   Sure it was!

The New & Improved Fear-Mongering Terror Alert Color, eh?  Ha-ha!  We just have to be careful... the other side of the coin (the political coin of pandering) are false promices... LIKE GETTING US THE HELL out of Iraq which was the dem implied promice yet undelivered! They will try to play on us as well!  They all do.  If it isn't fear, it's promices.  Finding a Kennedy or a Carter isn't exactly easy in an era of such utter political theater.

Sue & Jamie - PERFECTION!!

You know. I've been on this blog for a very long time. In fact, the only persons that I'm certain were here before me are Pam, CA, Todd NO, Steve - Iowa, and Scott NV.

There used to be long discussions filled with passion but never with attacks or sarcasm toward dissenting bloggers. Except for Scott NV, of course but he filled his role in the family as he saw fit.

I've tried to never backhand a blogger much less attack one directly. I've failed in that effort on occasion. Most notably not too long ago when I had to apologize for my behavior.

The tone of the blog has changed so much. It can be fun to be sarcastic and I find myself tempted to fall into that habit.

re the Irani Protest Proposal: I stated as clearly as I was able that I was stating my opinions. I did not ask that anyone share those opinions. I did not denounce anyone who thought differently from me. I did not make sarcastic remarks about anyone whose opinion might differ from mine. I wished and do wish Chris the best in his work.

Because I simply can't see myself adding value to the blog anymore, I'm going to say good bye.

It's, frankly, like leaving old friends. However, as much as a lot of us agree on our goals, I do not wish to become guilty of the negative behavior of the neo-cons we have judged so guilty. I think we are sliding into that behavior. I know I'm very tempted to do so.

Keep the faith and we'll all celebrate a new day in Jan 2009. If God is listening, we might even get a celebration of impeachment before then.

Thanks a lot guys. Best of luck.

Well Independent, it's unfortunate that you are choosing to say good-bye.  Yes, there is sarcasm on here, and yes, there has been name calling.  However, this is also a blog for Countdown, which quite frankly can be called vulgar with Musto, in the least, and immature with some of our rants, at best-Paris Hilton and the Coulter not withstanding.

The people that post on here are people from all walks of life from around the country-not unlike our military.  As much as we'd all like to be 'one,' it's not going to happen.  

Again I think it's a shame that you are choosing to leave because things have 'changed,' but the reality is that sometimes our frustrations with what is going on in our world have to come out somewhere.  Maybe it's not always the most mature way, or the way you in particular may like it, but that's life.  Isn't that what this is all about?

As we say in the Navy:  Fair Winds and Following Seas.

PEACE!  And I really do mean it!

It is the Congress responsibility to start impeachment hearings on the V.P. Cheney and as soon as possible. He is not above the law. I don't care if they don't have enough votes in the Senate. They have popular opion with the American Citizen's and that is all they need. What in the hell is wrong with this Congress? They better get out there and do their job or they will be gone like the once before them.
Cheney doesn't care anyway. He know's he is a shield for the President and has set himself up for the fall long ago, so lets take him out.

Jamie, Chula Vista, CA (Sent Thursday, June 28, 2007 10:40 PM)

This is my very last post. My "resignation" hadn't shown up for me before and I wanted to check to see if it posted. It evidently had because there is your response.

You are the reason I've decided to leave. You are the very last straw for me. I find you to be superior in tone and backhanded in your posts. You are certainly not unique in this regard but I've always agreed with your positions. I have never slammed you or even been sarcastic with you. However, you certainly did aim at me via a note to Chris. BTW  you are not the only person who visits this blog to have had the pleasure of visiting and living in other countries.

I know it is the countdown blog. Remember - I've been here a long time. But just as you are theoretically saying you are sorry to see me go - you lecture me. I expect that behavior from blog fleas. I find it insupportable from you. Go back through the archives. Look at some of your posts. If you are happy with yourself that is all that matters. I wish you the best. I cannot be my best when those I happen to support on political and cultural views are not respectful of my views or show respect toward others. So I leave.

Again - you were the last straw, not the first straw, and therefore not the only straw in my increasing frustration with the discussions on this blog.

CA tried his best a few weeks back to bring up the issue of incivility, intolerance, and hypocrisy we liberals tend to use when exclaiming against the incivility, intolerance, and hypocrisy of the neocons. I may be mistaken but I think you mowed him down pretty well too. I really can't remember that specifically.

You talk about your own personal investment in Iraq. I have 3 nephews I'm worried about too. I've just suffered a terrible family death. There is a medical situation in my family caused by the United State Military Medical system. That was investigated by Congress and the result of that sterling investigation, was  "oh well, we couldn't find anything specific, so sorry".

So don't lecture me about "what its  all about". I never said that the blog had to stay the same, I said I didn't see myself adding value to the blog anymore. But you would rather get in your last little speech to make certain that we all recognize how much you are superior.

There - I've broken every rule I have about my own behavior. If I stayed I would keep breaking my own rules.

Fair wind my ass.

"It is the Congress responsibility to start impeachment hearings on the V.P. Cheney and as soon as possible." Is is and HAS BEEN time, but I almost hit the floor when--during the first debate--non of candidates supported Kucinich.  Perhaps they are affraid to find out how much power these guys really have???  I think on this very day you could probably make the claim that democracy died.  What keith so plolitely refered to as having the deck stacked in the favor of the whitehouse essentially amounts to a complete coup!  

HA HA HA
"Ad homonym
From Langmaker
ad homonym adj. ad homophone [Note: on analogy with "ad hominem".] Appealing to feelings and appreciation of puns, jokes, word-play, and jargon rather than intellect: witty.

Coined By: Nick Kalivoda

Retrieved from "http://www.langmaker.com/db/Ad_homonym"
"
I knew I'd heard or, rather read, the term Ad Homonym before. Ad Homonym is a Homophone of Ad Hominem.

Looks like Scott got one over on Todd without really trying.
This is too Rich.

A military dictatorship is what these boys are shooting for.  All the signs are there: absolute power with no system of checks and balances, homeland security clauses that give this president indefinite power and leadership in the event of a national emergency (we're gonna get it again folks - kiss 2008 goodbye), corporate owned but taxpayer funded religious mercenary armies, funding for internment camp upkeep, continual use of language to instill fear in the people (especially in consideration of a 'regime' change).  They are the true terrorists.  Impeach Bush and his parasitic twin.

I agree with others that the Wash Post is doing a great job of bringing the evils of Cheney to light.  The Klamath river is very telling, but I can see how it is difficult from a farmer's standpoint.  The final argument for me is that the fishing industry is now affected, which causes a plethora of other problems in the region.  Who knows what other lasting effects that has on the ecosystem.  To my knowledge, no drought has ever caused the farming not to come back strong the next year (I grew up in Iowa).  The government could have found other ways to help the farmers in those areas, such as declaring a state of disaster, and isn't there farmer's insurance or something?  Instead of taking water from the Klamath river, they could have provided for the farmers for that year.  Time and again, science has learned not to mess with nature's delicate balance.  We need a leader who knows science, listens to science, etc.  Al, Barack, anyone...???

Inde.  Rules are like eggs, you have to break them to make an omelet. No wait...Wise rules to be guided by..or is that wise guys to be ruled by?  Rules are like eggs but they're not broken, if they're hatched?  How about Never say Never?  Just take the weekend off.  Get away from us and Paris and Cheney and the Burrs constantly trying to get under your saddle.  Pick up a jug of Blue Agave Tequila and say "Viva Terlingua"! out in the scrub.  Kiss a Horned Frog.  Be the Frog!  Not the Blog!  See ya next week, Inde! The more things change...yahda yahda yahda...

Independent:  I have no doubt that you are lurking and will read this.  I had a bit of a posting to you, but changed it to this.  I was being sincere in using a very traditional Navy saying to you, however, you have serious issues that you obviously can't get over.  

I'm sure you'll find some place else to try and be superior to everybody and everything.  Sorry I don't like people to instruct me on how to behave on and OPEN and PUBLIC blog.

Fair winds my ass, indeed.

Your favorite blog 'flea.'

Jamie - you're not a flea - the fleas are those pesky Kool Aid Drinkers that can only spew out loyal GOP talking points.  I suggest that people not scratch at them because they multiply when scratched.

I hope you weren't taking my flea or circus clown posts to include you.  They don't and never have been.

Wayne - That website is incorrect.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ad_hominem
http://www.nizkor.org/features/fallacies/ad-hominem.html
http://www.fallacyfiles.org/adhomine.html
http://www.sjsu.edu/depts/itl/graphics/adhom/adhom.html

Incorrect.  Just like you.

Sue, perhaps you should consider the recent escalating in Kool-Aid Krew posters in a different light.  Have you considered there is an increase of their sort posting here because they fear the dialog here and know that their time is running out?  They attack en masse out of desperation and fear.  For instance, notice the timing of the zealotry fit.  Convenient ATTEMPT to distract from the issue at hand regarding Cheney, no?  That is why I kept that question in play.  I wasn't just smacking down the bigots and the hammerheads as much fun as that can be.  I wanted to illustrate that they were deliberately avoiding that subject as well.  Distraction is a key tactic of the Neocons.  Example: the Clinton Did It line of reasoning, name calling instead of addressing a point, etc.  They don't want people to talk about what a bunch of obvious criminals they have backed.  And isn't it odd that NOT ONE of the KAK has spoken in Sick Dick's defense yet, now have they?  Will they?  They have had plenty of opportunities but I doubt you will hear much.  Why?  To DISCUSS it, not rail like children, would only draw attention to it.  Just a thought.

Todd - yeah, I know, but all that reponding to those bozos does is attract more bozos.  

Sometimes I break my own rule and respond to the bait they throw, but usually I just pass by the crapola posted by those attention seeking fleas.

We all enjoy bashing this administration for it's lies and failures, but we are forgetting there is a primary season coming. Almost to the man each GOP hopeful is committed to staying the course in Iraq. One has walked the streets of Bagdad declaring it as safe as a walk in the park with markets open and people shopping. Americans need to wake up to the fact that unless we get these candidates to change their views we'll be in for at least four more years of waste to our Nation. This administration is like the mafia with the secrecy and loyality of it's members and will continue to promote it's polocies thru the next election. They are like blood sucking leaches that won't let go of this change the world mentality. Dick Cheney is a powerful presence that his party listens to and for the most part they have a great respect for. When you listen to interviews of GOP congressmen they all speak with high regard for what Cheney has done. The point of this is that this is an enormous challange for the Democratic Party to prove to the Nation they can protect,lead, and unite the People. They also must know that the mud has begun to flow and every little slip of the tongue will become a booming statement to their disgrace.

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