Ms. Plame deserves more than an apology. Where is her thank you for her service to our great nation? Where is her medal of freedom? I REALLY HATE this guy bush.

Pam & CA, you guys will get a kick out of my new web page: http://www.cafepress.com/mrobvious/

Complex issues- like the fact no covert CIA agent has ever been outed by her president before.  Or that scooter lied to protect cheney and bush.  Or that all of them are making so much money off this war no one else in the country matters to them.

The republican candidates for pres. lining up behind these guys are showing they have no loyalty to thier country, only a loyalty to thier party.  But that's not really anything new either.  

I love this feature! Bush and Cheney owe the American people an explanation. What was Scooter covering up, for whom, and why. Just tell the American people. Give us a chance to understand.

JW: Great web page, smile.

I see the heat and truth and lack of any further ability to excuse Bush's behavior has left Tony Snow. So what about the 3,000 other petitions Mr. Bush? What about the 3,000 other petitions Bush supporters? You say he has the right to commute sentences without breaking any laws. So how about it? Is he going to review these other 3,000 petitions as well and do it now like he did for Libby? Or was this really just a political favor given to a pal he was afraid would spill the entire beans about his administration? Any Bush supporter want to answer that.

Tell you what Bush believers. I bet I can get every single person that posts on this Blog to agree to stop bashing Bush about commuting Libby's jail time if Bush will review and commute just 1/2 of those other 3,000 who have petitioned for a Presidential commutation of sentence by the end of the week. Fair is fair. What do you say bloggers?  

Hi, everyone. First, a brief comment totally off subject. To Tru M. in Cleveland...don't bother listening to todays BIG SHOW podcast. No Dan - no Keith - sub host - no big announcement from Dan. NOT NICE TO TEASE, BOYS! ;)

OK...back to the subject at hand, kind of. In my efforts to stay open-minded and actually heeding the suggestion offered by Craig Crawford in ATTACK THE MESSENGER (a great read for these times!), I try to listen to and/or read news from sources that I KNOW I'm going to disagree with. This helps me figure out if I believe what I THINK I believe and lets me know what the "other side" is thinking. So, in that regard, I decided to listen to comedian Rush Limbaugh today of all days. For nearly 45 minutes, and I should get a medal for sticking with him for 45 minutes, guess how many times he brought up Scooter's sentence being commuted? NONE - NADA - ZIP-ABSOLUTELY POSITIVELY IX-NAY ON THE OOTER-SCAY (my attempt at pig Latin). WTF? Unless he talked about it earlier, I was freakin' amazed. He talked about him giving away 10 IPhones, which he kept calling IPods, he took credit for the immigration bill being defeated, and talked about some amnesia bill that's supposed to get rid of bad memories. Must have been what our AG was taking when testifying in front of the committees. He might think our "fearless decider" still hasn't gone far enough as far as Mr. Libby's concerned.

Count me in, C A!

I second CA's motion in spirit if not in form.  I would say let all 3,000 have it.  Don't let anger over Scooter make you take your eye off the unconstitutional ball Cheney tossed last week.  What happens to Scooter is of no consequence beyond further illustrating the contempt for the rule of law that is Bush and Cheney.  We the People need to put his bosses in prison.  Scooter's little fish.

I saw that pathetic excuse of a press conference with fumbling, stumbling Tony SnowJob.  He was at a loss of words to avoid saying "double standard".

I'm just wondering when "Anchors Away" Bush and Fourth Branch Darth Veeper are going to send their subordinates out to "take out" their political opponents.  The pardons could be filled out and ready for signature if any of them are caught.

Yesterday, July 2, 1007 is another day that will be remembered with infamy.

CA Tuscaloosa, I'm with you.
Set all of the petioners free, assuming the idiot can read every name.

Plame owes the apology for using her position in the CIA for domestic, partisan, political purposes.  And what the hell I guess using the logic of the questioner if one is pardoned all should be pardoned.  Lets just open the prison gates and let everybody go.  

Outraged American (Sent Tuesday, July 03, 2007 5:52 PM)

Althought I am so angry I could spit about Mr. Snow I cannot support your post. This is wrong. This is the kind of thing that Ann Coulter would say. Keep in mind that as angry as we get, if we wallow in the mud with those kind of pigs - all we get is dirty and the pigs have fun.

I understand and share your rage. I let loose last week with some really bad stuff. I don't want you to go through the same thing that I did.

'Mr.Snow,the first time we caught you in a lie,the trust was broken.' Be a man and speak no more.

Outraged American (Sent Tuesday, July 03, 2007 5:52 PM)

I can be vicious.  I've seen me do it.  The blog is littered with the bloodied I have left in my wake.  I am no fan of Snow's.  I believe the words I used were "disingenuous prick" and I have been much meaner to others.  So take this advice from that perspective: I am not a nice man to my enemies.  

To wish a man cancer is just bad juju.  You are begging karma to slap you down.  I agree, Tony Snow is a scumbag and if he doesn't have a job with Rupert, he'll never be employed in media again.  But you may have gone a little far.  How about wishing he get a nice ass kicking instead?  Herpes?  You know, not fatal, but like bad luggage you can't get rid of?  But cancer?  I have to agree with Independent on that one . . . it's just plain wrong.  Feel free to tempt fate all you like though.

Outraged American (Sent Tuesday, July 03, 2007 5:52 PM)

I can be vicious.  I've seen me do it.  The blog is littered with the bloodied I have left in my wake.  I am no fan of Snow's.  I believe the words I used were "disingenuous prick" and I have been much meaner to others.  So take this advice from that perspective: I am not a nice man to my enemies.  

To wish a man cancer is just bad juju.  You are begging karma to slap you down.  I agree, Tony Snow is a scumbag and if he doesn't have a job with Rupert, he'll never be employed in media again.  You may have gone a little far.  How about wishing he get a nice ass kicking instead?  An uncontrollable facial tic?  Herpes?  You know, not fatal, but like bad luggage you can't get rid of?  But cancer?  I have to agree with Independent on that one . . . it's just plain wrong.  Feel free to tempt fate all you like though.

I ditto Independent, TX comments, Outraged American. I KNOW you're angry and frustrated; most bloggers here are. But, don't sink to CoulterGeist level. NO ONE "deserves" cancer. Although President Reagan's administration did plenty of damage to many in this country, he did not "deserve" Alzheimer's Disease; my grandfather had Alzheimer's, so I know what the Reagan family went through, and I wouldn't wish that on ANYONE.

It's easy to get angry these days, but just keep thinking. Getting personal, emotional, and cruel will just keep pi###ng everyone off, and that will accomplish nothing. Hang in there, Outraged American; I know - easier said than done now.

HERE! HERE! Independent I agree!!!!!
Althought I am so angry I could spit about Mr. Snow I cannot support your post. This is wrong. This is the kind of thing that Ann Coulter would say. Keep in mind that as angry as we get, if we wallow in the mud with those kind of pigs - all we get is dirty and the pigs have fun.

I understand and share your rage. I let loose last week with some really bad stuff. I don't want you to go through the same thing that I did.

Outraged:  I'm outraged too, but to wish anything like that on anybody, well, is digusting and quite frankly makes you no better than the Bush administration.  Don't shoot the messenger, no matter how screwed up he is!

Krista:  Thank you.  I laughed so much.  I tell you, between you, BA & Steve, I get my laugh in everyday.

PEACE!

First of all, Krista--thanks for trying to spare me from listening to the ESPN podcast, but no such luck, I listen to it live and I was as shocked as you. What IS this?? When are we going to hear Dan's news already?

Second, gotta echo what Krista, Todd and Independent said to Outraged American. Let's leave cancer out of this. I say that as a person who has had it--and who didn't go through near as much hell as people like Tony Snow and Elizabeth Edwards have. And you know what one of the worst things about having it is? You sit there and you think "I bet the people who don't like me are thrilled right now, and are thinking I deserve it."

Take it from me, your worst enemy doesn't deserve it. Nobody does. And it's like the rain: it falls on the just and the unjust. I'd like to see it gone for good, for everyone.

Find another way to express your displeasure for Tony Snow. Considering all the possibilities, it shouldn't be hard.

I'm just curious that not a single person has mentioned the GWB never, ever pardoned a prisoner on death row during his tenure as TX Govenor.  Did he not think these souls or their families had suffered enough?  Did he never think a death sentence was too harsh?

I can hardly hold my rage against this administration.

to answer cynthias question. no one one death row had dirt on georgie jr and was a loyal employee who kept his mouth shut. i guess it "sucked to be them " but then again. i think a lot of americans are feeling that way these days .

President Bush didn't break a law.  Didn't follow guidelines or policies.  President is morally and ethically bankrupt.  Vice President too.

Where does that leave America?  This is a defining moment of character.  Congress and the Senate should take control of the investigations into the Executive Department.  And push!  Push for resolution.  Push for
release of ALL the information.

Then we need to make sure the laws in place prevent this travesty of presidential power.  

In 2008, vote!  Be informed and get your news from different sources.  

Good luck!

J McMahan
I so agree with you.  But I worry that most citizens are so far removed from the understanding that each individual act has an impact.

Now now, Outraged American. I feel your rage, but Tony's just a pawn and not a particularly good liar. Let the other side make the death wishes.

And J McMahan...right on.

Show of hands... Who really believed Iraq could possibly drop a bomb on the United States?
Ha ha ha ha ha!
Okay, okay... Who really believed ANY country or leader would be stupid enough to accept Saddam's WMD, knowing the world's mightiest, angriest armies were looking for them?
HA ha ha ha ha!
One more... Who here really understands Scooter Libby's crime is obstruction of justice, and lying to a grand jury to protect elected officials from prosecution, which might lead directly to charges and convictions for treason?

Oh.

Tru – Thank you and my thanks to Independent, Todd and Krista as well.  This comment was not only disgraceful, as I have lost several family members to cancer, one being an 18-year-old first cousin, it was cruel.

Please, leave Tony Snow's horrible disease out of this.  Show some decency and compassion.

Thanks Tru, Inde, Krista and Todd!!

First, I agree with CA.  And the sentence commutations should begin with people who are clearly in jail because they were wrongly convicted but the system would recognize it.  Let the innocent out of prison before we start working on mercy for the guilty.

Second, speaking of Tony Snow, the Daily Show re-ran the episode where Jon Stewart has "Tony talking to Tony" about the firing of the US attorneys.  In March, he says they were fired for performance reasons;  three months later, he states that  he never SAID anyone was fired for performance.  Then Steward drives home the connection by playing the sound bites back to back and uses the word "lying."  Too bad that such moments are only found on the Daily Show and Countdown (and a few other cable and radio outlets that think the truth matters.

"Okay, okay... Who really believed ANY country or leader would be stupid enough to accept Saddam's WMD, knowing the world's mightiest, angriest armies were looking for them?
"
Iran was Iraq's worst Enemy on the Planet, yet During Dessert Storm they allowed Saddam to ferry a large contingent of MIG Fighter planes to Iranian airfields in order to prevent those planes from being destroyed on the ground by US Airstrikes.
They later renegged on their agreement and confiscated those aircraft for there own use.

Syrian Disedents have given our Intelligence agencies the location of numerous WMD sites inside Syria. These sites are know to harbor Syrian Chemical Weapons. Like Iran the world already knows and has known for decades that Syria has Chemical Weapons stores. Unlike the case of Iraq, which was still subject to resumption of hostilities due to provable violations of the conditions of the ceasefire agreement, there is at this time no significant  leverage for forcing Syria or Iran to destroy their own stockpiles of Chemical Weapons.

Despite lack of significant Stockpiles of recently produced Chemical Weapons, there are numerous violations of the ceasefire agreement and UNSCRs that have been proven.
Long Range Missile Programs
Missiles exceeding the mandated range limitations.
The refusal to release or account for 600 Kuwaiti POWS.
Iraqi Intelligence Services undeclared experimentation into transfering the contents of old stock Mustard Gas shells to Russian designed Chemical Munition Rifle grenades, for use in Asasinations and Covert operations. This contining until two weeks before the Invasion.

Possible violations, not yet eliminated.
Traces of Ricin manufacture at a State owned and operated Brake Fluid factory.
500+ Old Stock Chemical Warheads an unknown number of which were still viable as weapons and some containing Proscribed gases that could be transfered to devices suitable for Terrorist attacks.

Besides the fact that Saddam helped to Bankroll Suicide Bombings in Israel which endangers citizens of many nations including US Citizens, US Air Bases and Shipping were within Range of the proscribed Iraqi Missiles and UAVs.

Saddam was provably a host, protector, and supporter of many Terrorist Organizations and Individuals sought for attacks against US Citizens, including the first attack on the WTC.

Saddam's Sons were a threat as well, perhaps more so than Saddam himself.
One of his sons had attempted to trandfer WMD technology and technicians to Terrorist Organizations based in Syria.
When one or the other of Saddam's sons rose to power in an Iraq free of UN Sanctions the situation would rapidly escalate. One son being a cold blooded killer, the other being an out of control murderer  and rapist.

PS
Get past the quoted talking points about the Duelfer Report and actually wade through the entire report and you'll find that Saddam's regime was far from being defanged and still posed a serious threat to both US Security and the region.

"I'm just curious that not a single person has mentioned the GWB never, ever pardoned a prisoner on death row during his tenure as TX Govenor.  Did he not think these souls or their families had suffered enough?  Did he never think a death sentence was too harsh?

I can hardly hold my rage against this administration.
Cynthia, MA
"
Cynthia
In part due to the fact that the State of Texas was a Sovereign Nation before becoming a State, its branches of State Government differ in a number of respects from those of most other US States.

The Governor of Texas can not commute or Pardon on his own accord. That power is reserved to a special  board that must agree on each application on a case by case basis.

"Unlike governors in many states, the Texas Governor cannot independently issue a pardon or sentence commutation. In death penalty cases, the Governor can issue one thirty-day reprieve. He or she can also make recommendations to the Board of Pardons and Paroles and can either approve or reject the board's recommendations on pardons or sentence reductions.
"
http://texaspolitics.laits.utexas.edu/html/exec/0700.html

C A - You have my FULL support as long as the 1/2 is not guilty of some very heinous crime.  Some people are just too dangerous for their sentence to be commuted.

Yes, the "Idiot-In-Chief" should spend his next vacation, which will be this week I'm sure, reviewing each and every petition!!

Happy 4th my good friend!!

Will someone out there tell me if I'm alone in this, or if anyone else agrees with me========in blaming Gerald Ford for most of this?  If Nixon had faced a trial(and the inevitable) conviction for Watergate, we could have avoided everything including Iran-Contra, because Presidents would Not have felt "entitled" to break the law.  

Cynthia (4:24 am post) , I did a post last night that didn't "make it" that makes a similar point--but that goes on to put Clinton in that last.  A poster on one thread last night as well as what J.Turley said about Clinton's pardons got me to thinking that we are where we are because we have "avoided" presidential disgrace--through a pardon for Nixon, nothing for Reagan, and avoiding removal for Clinton. While I never thought what Clinton did rose to impeachment levels, and I think the whole Whiterwater/sexual pecadillo investigation existed for the purpose of wrecking his presidency, people who defended him have also helped create this mess.  Including me. I am tired of presidents who lie, evade the truth and cover up their shady dealings of every kinds.  And while "the underlying crime" Clinton lied about doesn't in my mind rise to impeachment levels. both parties are responsible for cheapening that Constitutional remedy and creating conditions that make it politically difficult to remove this rogue president or his sociopathic vice president.

Cynthia - actually no.

I was around at that time and after all the investigations and the horrors, I was glad to see him go. Considering who Mr. Nixon was, this public disgrace was, in fact, a hugh punishment. He was not like the current office holder who will NEVER understand why we don't "like" him. I was supportive of the pardon at the time and continue to think it was the best way to start our healing as a nation. Also - Ford paid for it. There was never a doubt that he would lose the election. He accepted that and did what he thought best. Won't find any of the current cabal doing something not in thier best interest.

The current office holders don't believe they are "entitled" to break the law. They don't think the law exists for them at all. Just my opinion.

The chief villain, Cheney, just never got from Watergate, etc. that the problem was the concept of the unitary presidency - he, evidently, thought that that it was "simply" the break-in coverup for which Nixon paid. Conviction of Nixon wouldn't have changed that. Again - just my opinion.

tony your just a lapdog for pres.& vp so keep kissing
there behind

tony your just a lapdog for pres.& vp so keep kissing
there behind

tony your just a lapdog for pres.& vp so keep kissing
there behind

Hi, everyone! Chula Vista Jamie (7:35 pm post), thank you so much for your kind words. From someone in whose words I hold such high esteem here, that is truly praise. Wish I knew what I said that was so funny...oh well... :)

Cynthia, my problems with Gerald Ford goes way back before he became Vice President, he was extreme scum! Since he took Nixons place I don't think he would have ever won an election.. OH WAIT HE DIDN'T!!!!!! You think it might have been because of his pardon to Nixon? :D The Man was still a p!$$ and waited to have a release of how he felt about Bushy Jr. AFTER HE DIED!
I'm sorry to inform you though that this stuff has been going on for a very long time, that has led us to what we are seeing today. There is a quote from Ike that pretty much says it all! http://coursesa.matrix.msu.edu/~hst306/documents/indust.html

This is some of it but it would be a good idea to read the whole thing:
This conjunction of an immense military establishment and a large arms industry is new in the American experience. The total influence -- economic, political, even spiritual -- is felt in every city, every State house, every office of the Federal government. We recognize the imperative need for this development. Yet we must not fail to comprehend its grave implications. Our toil, resources and livelihood are all involved; so is the very structure of our society.

In the councils of government, we must guard against the acquisition of unwarranted influence, whether sought or unsought, by the militaryindustrial complex. The potential for the disastrous rise of misplaced power exists and will persist.

We must never let the weight of this combination endanger our liberties or democratic processes. We should take nothing for granted. Only an alert and knowledgeable citizenry can compel the proper meshing of the huge industrial and military machinery of defense with our peaceful methods and goals, so that security and liberty may prosper together.

Akin to, and largely responsible for the sweeping changes in our industrial-military posture, has been the technological revolution during recent decades.

In this revolution, research has become central; it also becomes more formalized, complex, and costly. A steadily increasing share is conducted for, by, or at the direction of, the Federal government.

"I'm just curious that not a single person has mentioned the GWB never, ever pardoned a prisoner on death row during his tenure as TX Govenor.  Did he not think these souls or their families had suffered enough?  Did he never think a death sentence was too harsh?

I can hardly hold my rage against this administration.
Cynthia, MA
"
Unlike other states The State of Texas has barred its Governors from granting either Commutations or Pardons since 1934.
A Governor of Texas can grant a short reprieve but has no power to comute a death Sentence.

You know it's bad for bush when negative comments are coming from Indinana lol way to go Krista

Tony Snow frequently mentions how much he loves his job and how great the people he works for are.  There is just no way I can relate to the man on any level.  It is as though we were different species.  I can't see agreeing with a crocodile or a goldfish about what might be good for lunch and I can't imagine agreeing with Tony Snow about the Bush administration.  By the same token, I don't think ol' Crony McSnowjob has a clue what the reporters who question him are talking about.  I believe he really does not understand the outrage or where we are coming from.

Dick Cheney feels entitled to whatever he can grab and it has nothing to do with history.  Bush is mentally ill and has no clue about history.  Just an opinion...

ANOTHER "HOOSIER"! YIPPEE! Hi, Ed Turner. Thanks for the kind words in your 7:52 post. There's lots of great dialogue from all over the WORLD in this forum, so stick around!

I remember cia operatives` names,who were operating in the middle east, were disclosed by the media.This resulted in the murders of some of them and seriously affected our intelligence gathering abilities in the region.I believe this was a factor in bringing about our current situation..I don`t recall the outrage over this.

OK, Wayne- I will agree with you.  Saddam was a bad guy.  A real bastid.  We got him.  He's dead.  Mission Accomplished, right?  OK King George- "Bring The Boys Home"- (Frieda Payne, 1971)

Ed Turner- any relation to the Turner Security folks?
And yes- your comment to Krista says much!

Cynthia - You may be on to something.  The shaming of Nixon wasn't enough.  Look at how they tried to rehabilitate the Nixon record in the 10 years or so before he died.  In the news coverage after his death, Watergate was glossed over and all his accomplishments were praised.

The pardon was wrong and it was Ford, not Nixon, who paid the price for that.  

A trial and jail time would have been better.  Remember all the Nixon Aides went to prison.  Even Ford didn't pardon them.

It got worse under Reagan with Iran Contra and Bush I issuing all those pardons.  Perhaps if they thought they might go to The Big House themselves, those pardons would never have been issued.  And lookie lookie at how Reagan's record has been sanitized to make him look like a saint rather than a crook who did business with other crooks.

But this absolutely stinks.  A President pardoning an employee for obstructing an investigation that never made it to the real culprits (President Stupid and Darth Veeper).

The Bush Crime Family makes the Nixon administration look like a bunch of wussie boys in terms of lawbreaking and cover-up.

Wayne. M'town TN (Sent Wednesday, July 04, 2007 1:24 AM)

and

Wayne, M'town TN (Sent Wednesday, July 04, 2007 3:34 PM)



Factually true - missing point: Bush didn't REQUEST any

Tony Snow has to be the laughing stock of the news industry.  As usual, Bush/Cheney took a pretty decent man and turned him into a lying, incredible, dribbling idiot.  How Snow can actually say the things he does without choking is beyond me.

Heres what Collins a juror on the Libby case had to say.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17479718/
"“I will say there was a tremendous amount of sympathy for Mr. Libby on the jury. It was said a number of times, ‘What are we doing with this guy here? Where’s Rove? Where are these other guys?”’ Collins said. “I’m not saying we didn’t think Mr. Libby was guilty of the things we found him guilty of. It seemed like he was, as Mr. Wells put it, he was the fall guy.”

"
It's obvious that many perhaps all of the jurors had been convinced by media accounts that there was an underlying crime. Since none of that could be proven by anything presented in court they based their understanding of the order of events on facts not in evidence.
"It Seemed Like He Was". Thats hardly a declaration of proved beyond reasonable doubt now is it?

The Jury was prejudiced in favor of the Prosecution, to the same extent and for the same reason as the Liberal Democrats that post here. Libby was tried by Media, the weak and often contradictory evidence against him was carefully edited and exculpitory evidence disallowed.

"Factually true - missing point: Bush didn't REQUEST any
Independent, Texas
"
Bush did in fact ask the Clememcy board to review a case in which the subject, though a proven multiple murderer, had been convicted of a murder in Texas which later evidence proved that he could not have commited.
In Texas its the job of the condemned person's legal representive to apply for pardons or commutations. Only in those rare cases when evidence proving innocence is available does the Governor ask the Clemency board to take action. If the board declines the Governor has power to grant only a one shot 30 day reprieve.

"It wouldn't be entertaining if it were true" A quote referring to Mr. Olbermann's regular commentary. Understanding the need to over exaggerate and "fill in the blanks" with personal opinion is the hall mark of current commentaries. With the internet as your weapon, and without credible people to correct him, Gives Mr.
Olberman the freedom to say whatever he wants. Journalistic guild lines and without fear of liability or slander, allow this, has been ESPN sports announcer, the freedom to walk over anybody he chooses. Lets forget for a moment that national opinion polls him below Jerry Springer as far as honesty in the arena of talk show entertainment, and like the Jerry Springer show his only purpose is to give viable ratings to his current network broadcasting. Like Rosie O'Donnell (who sometimes even believed her own lies) the bubble can burst and like his short lived ESPN career, eventually the public will just view him as another could have been American idol wanna be. Your composure is elementary in a first to second grade type mentality. If this is by accident or on purpose make little difference, it still defines your character to be immature. A little advice: have a definate point in your discussions. Don't just ramble. Mediacrity is the #1 downfall of commentation these days.

Anyway post this if you feel brave,  but I wouldn't. some people People might read it!!!!!!!!!!!!

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