Pam , Clinton and Carter had no more Foreign Policy expertise than "W". Withdrawing from South Korea, giving away the Panama Canal, Letting the Iranians have their way which began the terrorist planning against the US. Give me a break, the worst by far in US history, Carter needs to continue hammering nails and leave Foreign Policy to Nancy Pelosi !

Wayne, M'town TN what the hell is M Town,Larry (now known as the Pussy from) Charleston, SC ,and John phila,

We seem to be running just a little short of troops but not long on Dumya,Dick, Rover,and your little head bobbling yes man mouths,the favorite breeding ground of al-Quida and Fear,lies,sex crimes,immorality,executive privileges to hide the truth,bloggle away the truth as you may,but their there is a train called the Truth coming down the tracks and you can lie to yourselves till hell freezes over and screw with folks on this blog,whether your paid by the RNC,Rove, or not,but here is a news flash old sooth sayers,we don't see you over there and never have we heard you mention any military experience.
We can only assume like those you support you are cowards and make up fear to fight for to get votes for your selves in elections,stir shit, and don't know shit about war and never grew out of that phase little boys.Run along with your Ann Coulter Barbie Dolls and
and go play.
Larry (now known as Pussy Galore from Charleston)
For some reason I hear that Clinton recording fixing to be played.
Well here is the song,I'll take a little head under the executive desk any day of the week,
then no head with no brain full of lies over it any day of the week at all.

Todd, thanks for that. I'm contemplating which is worse: the spawn of Bush Sr or the spawn of Billy Cyrus, Hannah Montana.

Even though I can smoke anytime and anywhere, they're forcing us to wear white. Johnny Cash is pissed!

And I've met every deity up here. and every single one is a liberal. imagine that!  btw, the wireless up here is lightning fast. ;)

How can someone be pro-war and pro-life at the same time?

A DAY IN THE LIFE OF LARRY-SC, WAYNE-TN, JOHN-PHILA-SCOTT-NV

They all get up at 6 a.m. and fill their coffeepots with water to prepare his morning coffee. The water is clean and good because some “tree-hugging liberal” fought for minimum water-quality standards. With their first swallow of coffee, they take their daily medication.

Their medications are safe to take because some stupid "commie liberal" (most likely from San Francisco) fought to insure their safety and that they work as advertised. All but $10 of their medications are paid for by their employer's medical plan because some liberal union workers fought their employers for paid medical insurance -- now THEY gets it, too.

They prepare their morning breakfast, bacon and eggs. Their bacon is safe to eat because some “girly-man liberal” fought for laws to regulate the meat packing industry.

In the morning shower, they reach for their shampoo. Their bottles are properly labeled with each ingredient and its amount in the total contents because some “crybaby liberal” fought for their rights to know what they were putting on their bodies and how much it contained.

They dress, walk outside and take deep breaths. The air they breathe is clean because some environmentalist "wacko liberal" fought for laws to stop industries from polluting our air. They walk to the subway station for their government-subsidized ride to work. It saves them considerable money in parking and transportation fees because some "fancy-pants liberal" fought for affordable public transportation, which gives everyone the opportunity to be a contributor.

They begin their work day. They have decent jobs with excellent pay, medical benefits, retirement, paid holidays and vacation because some "lazy liberal union members" fought and died for these working standards. Their employers pay these standards because their employers don't want them to call the union. if THEY were hurt on the job or become unemployed, they'll get a worker compensation or unemployment check because some "stupid liberal" didn't think they should lose their homes because of their temporary misfortune.

It's noontime and they need to make a bank deposit so they can pay some bills. Their deposits are federally insured by the FSLIC because some "godless liberal" wanted to protect their money from unscrupulous bankers who ruined the banking system before the Great Depression.

They have to pay their Fannie Mae-underwritten mortgage and their below-market federal student loan because some "elitist liberal" decided that they and the government would be better off if they were educated and earned more money over his lifetime.

They come home from work. They plan to visit their fathers this evening at their farm homes in the country. They get in their cars for the drive. Their car is among the safest in the world because some "America-hating liberal" fought for car safety standards. They arrive at their boyhood homes. They were the third generation to live in these houses financed by Farmers' Home Administration because bankers didn't want to make rural loans. The houses didn't have electricity until some "big-government liberal" stuck his nose where it didn't belong and demanded rural electrification.

They are happy to see their fathers, who are now retired. Their fathers live on Social Security and a union pension because some "wine-drinking, cheese-eating liberal" made sure he could take care of himself so they wouldn't have to.

They get back in their cars for the ride home, and turn on a radio talk show. The radio host keeps saying that liberals are bad and conservatives are good. They never mention that the beloved Republicans have fought AGAINST every protection and benefit THEY have enjoyed throughout their day.

THEY agree: "We don't need those big-government liberals ruining our lives! After all, I'm a self-made man who believes everyone should take care of themselves, just like I have."

BACK DOWN FACSICTS - YOU, LARRY, WAYNE, JOHN, SCOTT ARE DESTROYING THIS COUNTRY!!

We true Americans will remain united and WE WILL PREVAIL against your EVIL!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Tuesday, July 17, 2007 5:01 PM)

Pam - that is the best post I've ever read from you.

you go girl!!

Very well done indeed.

This just in...

Three right wingers have just been viciously pwned on the N-hole following their attempts to defend those who deserve no defense. Our hearts go out to their families and loved ones. They won't be missed.

We now return you to the regularly awesome Countdown.

Independent, Texas (Sent Tuesday, July 17, 2007 5:23 PM)

Thank you, as they just deserved it.  The TRUTH does hurt!! Peace my friend!!


Lumen, Lurking the N-hole, Keeping tabs ^.~ (Sent Tuesday, July 17, 2007 5:39 PM)

LOL!!

Wow, Pam!  Your 5:01 post was brilliantly said, my dear!

You actually made me think of a SIMPSONS episode where Bart & Lisa begin writing "Itchy & Scratchy" cartoons and putting Grandpa Simpsons' name on the script. Of course, when he started getting checks for "his" work, and Bart & Lisa asked him if he didn't wonder why he was getting money for not doing anything, he replied, "I thought the Democrats were back in power." ;) I love satire!

Once again, nicely done, but be on the lookout for...ummm...how to put this politely...gee...this is hard...OK...how 'bout "dissenters", even though they don't have a leg to stand on with this argument.

YOU ROCK!

DCohn, At least Vitters didn't come out like Mcgreevey of NJ, a sexual affair with another man and all of the liberals rejoiced. Then Mc Greevey had the nerve to take hids wife and kids off of his insurance, and the liberals rejoiced. You see , there is a big difference between liberlas and conservatives , we don't rejoice in another mans failure ( except Bill Clintons )  LOL

A DAY IN THE LIFE OF LARRY-SC, WAYNE-TN, JOHN-PHILA-SCOTT-NV Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Tuesday, July 17, 2007 5:01 PM)

Thank you Pam too funny I can here the music from Coo Coo's Nest playing in the background. Medication time America.
Can we go fishing too R.P. Sure take Dick,Dubya,and Condi with ya. I am laughing my ass off. I had a friend who was in that OR State Mental Facility as a patient.I'll ask him if I see him if he knew any of these guys.
And cut now to the World Series with Pam and her fans.  

Pam, Great post. You have a great command of history.
Keep it up. You remember what most of us forget.
Your family must be very proud of you.

Oh, B A, how right you were!! They’re playing that Bill Clinton record again.  I have a question to the neo con nuts that cannot defend George W. Bush without EVER using Bill Clinton.

If Bill Clinton's definition of "is" matters, surely Iraq matters. If a president's sex life matters, surely a president’s use of global force against some of the weakest people in the world matters.

If a president’s word in a court of law about a private indiscretion matters, surely a president's word to the community of nations and the security of millions of people matters.

And if not, why not?  (Larry, Wayne, John-Phila, Scott-NV)

If not, surely there is something as wrong with these neo cons as citizens and as thinkers as there certainly is with George W Bush.

If a “war” that more than 70% of the public and the majority of the world says is wrong, how do these neo con thinkers come to believe it is "right" the minute the first bombs drop? How do they continue to justify it being “right” after the lies, death and destruction?

What kind of national morality is that?

Of what are we really capable as a nation if the considered judgment of politicians and people around the world means nothing to us as a people? What is the depth of the American soul if we can allow destruction to be done in our name and the name of  
"liberation" and never even demand an accounting of its costs, both personal and public, when it is over?

We have always taken comfort in the notion that people make a distinction between our government and ourselves. We have always said that the people of the world love Americans,  they simply mistrust our government. But excoriating a distant and anonymous "government" for wreaking  rubble on a nation in pretence of good requires very little  of either character or intelligence.

The time has long come for us to realize that in a country that  prides itself on being democratic, we are our government.  The rest of the world has begun to figure this out!!

From where I stand Larry, Wayne, John-Phila and Scott-NV – IT MATTERS!!

IMPEACH NOW!!!!

Larry, I personally rejoice in pointing out religious hypocrisy...the Repubs are the party of values and morals and family...NOT...Vitter railing against adultery while he is out porking hookers...Haggard ring a bell...Foley ring a bell...the Repubs claim to be the only moral force in the universe when they are really morally bankrupt; the hypocrisy signs just hang around your necks...see Scanlon, Ney, Safavain, Cunningham, Abramoff etc...all in jail...and Larry, why the homophobia???...explain why your god is homophobic??? just curious...

P

Your points on N- Korea are based upon the 50 yr dictatorship of Kim Il Sung. He died just after Carter's visit and his son Kim jong Il took over the nation. He dismissed all agreements his father made and pledged to continue his ballistic missile and nuclear ambitions (back in 94-95). I remember because I was deployed to Korea at that time in case of possible N-Korean aggression. Kim is no more than a gangster and should be treated as such. He withholds and counterfeits millions of US currency for his own private use. He manipulates his country's poverty as a political international tool (even though he has the financial resources the fix some of the North's problems).He pursues a millitay buildup second in Asia only to China. Like his father, he prefers isolation, and receiving handouts from his only allies, Russia and China. Political and economic pressure I believe, played a major role in Reversing N-Korea's nuclear stance. With China finally applying enough political pressure (which they should have been doing a long time ago). Without political aid from China, and economic aid from the US, JPN, and S-Korea. The North would have finally collapsed in upon itself, and I believe that Kim was finally feeling the pinch. He had three options. Give in to international pressure (which is what he did) Face an internal uprising from within (which is what he was hiding), or attack S-Korea, and Japan, (Which is what he was threading).
By shutting down the reactor, puts the North on less volatile terms with the rest of the world, but unlike Iraq he needs to continue to allow them in his nation to monitor inspections. This is something that Iran should be paying attention too, and what Iraq should have done a decade ago.

"I know I can't afford to pay attention to them all, but can we afford to ignore them all either? How many of them are merely stupid, vs. how many are downright dangerous? "
Tru M., Cleveland, Ohio
It is only a matter of time until you understand : we will have a permanent military presence in Iraq , Iran will be neutralized and an (WMD) islamofascist terrorist  attack on New York City or Boston will put many   islamists    and their left wing defenders behind bars and in anti-terrorist prevention detention  camps . Our civil liberties  will need to be curtailed  in order to defeat Islamofascism . We need new laws ( Federal Judge Posner understands this...). There is no alternative .

Nanalinda, San Antonio, TX (Sent Tuesday, July 17, 2007 7:00 PM)

Thank you so much!! You say the kindest things to me and really help me keep perspective (and my anger in check - I try) - God Bless, and I think my family is proud of me now.

I've worked hard over the course of my late twenties and thirties to ensure the education and love my parents gave me did not go to waste.  It was not always an easy path, nor did I always make the right decisions; however, I've been on a good path for a while now and am very grateful to my family, friends and God!!

PEACE FRIEND!!

Sorry I was unable to respond to Wayne & Larry's response to my earlier post. I can't post from work and I was taking care of my daughter before.

Anyway, Wayne's accusation that the liberal Guardian is anti-American and jihadist pretty much proves the point of the article and my post - so thanks for that. Also, his amazing 'new math' of saying a 70% disapproval rating of President Bush is actually closer than it seems is delusional - somehow, the 26% who approve of the President is the only part of the populace that count.

Larry, keeps acting as if it's only liberals and slanted media coverage that is causing these problems. If you had read my post, among those opposing / criticizing the Bush strategy, I listed generals, Republicans, Iraq Study Group members (which includes one of Reagan's 'troika' James Baker, Sandra Day O'Connor, Ed Meese, also of the Reagan administration), soldiers - these don't sound like liberals.

You don't have to be a liberal to be outraged at Bush's initiation of this war and his conduct of it. It is quite a feat of logic to believe everything on propagandist radio talk shows while saying that any other objective information is simply 'liberal bias'. I suppose it is the same logic that denies the nearly unanimous conclusion of non-partisan, objective scientists from all over the world regarding global warming while believing every word an Exxon-Mobil representative says.

K-

With all due respect sir, you are incorrect. Former President Clinton has stated MANY times during the course of this Administration (George W. Bush) that Kim was only using his "weapons program" to get monetary compensation.  Clinton knew this and handled him accordingly based on this accurate assessment.  Bill Clinton was correct.

In addition, it was Clinton who sent former President Jimmy Carter to North Korea in June of 1994.  You state, “He manipulates his country's poverty as a political international tool (even though he has the financial resources the fix some of the North's problems).” That is exactly what Bill Clinton has TRIED in vain to tell this Administration.  George W. Bush, as usual, has NOT listened to Bill Clinton.

You also state, “He dismissed all agreements his father made and pledged to continue his ballistic missile and nuclear ambitions (back in 94-95).” Okay, I’ll assume you are correct, and the point? Carter was successful and he either honored his father’s agreement or decided to meet with Carter on his own.  Again, your point? Even if the "agreements were dismissed" as they pertained to Jimmy Carter, Carter prevailed!!

You also state, “political and economic pressure I believe, played a major role in Reversing N-Korea's nuclear stance.” Your point being? I covered this and Clinton understood this and acted accordingly.  Again, Clinton has tried in vain to “explain” this to George W. Bush and his Administration.

Clinton utilizing Jimmy Carter, a valuable resource who prevailed, was brilliant. Again, Clinton was not so full of himself to not take advantage of Carter, a powerful weapon at that time, in dealing with North Korea. George W. Bush IS full of himself and has not only ignored Clinton’s advice; it would have been a good idea to ask Bill Clinton to go there.

In closing, you state, “by shutting down the reactor, puts the North on less volatile terms with the rest of the world, but unlike Iraq he needs to continue to allow them in his nation to monitor inspections.” Again, this is exactly what Carter achieved on his mission and it is also what Clinton insisted upon.  Inspections were done under the Clinton Administration.

The weapons program was shut down, inspectors were allowed in and he NEVER launched one test missile.  Clinton handled him brilliantly.

Clinton also wasn't so full of himself to state he "would not talk to N. Korea alone, under any circumstances" as George W. Bush has said many, many times.

Bill Clinton also understood the “role” of Secretary of State and sent Madeleine Albright, the first woman to serve as Secretary of State, to North Korea in the late 1990’s. George W. Bush has not only refused to speak with North Korea, Condaleeza Rice has NEVER been sent there.  George W. Bush has zero clue with regards to the functions of a “Secretary of State”.  

In closing, I have proven all my points sir. My final point being, former President Bill Clinton handled North Korea's threat masterfully based on the choices he had. George W. Bush has not only bungled every possible thing he could have regarding North Korea, he is responsible for allowing North Korea to re-start its weapons program, to include nuclear capabilities.

PEACE!!

K -

PS: While I understand Kim Jon-Il is not "his father", and he "dismissed agreements", George W. Bush should have handled Kim Jon-Il in the same wa Clinton handled his father.  

George W. Bush has done nothing and has listened to know one!! Bill Clinton has tried to offer advice as Kim Jon-Il IS exactly like his father and what worked for Clinton most likely would have worked for George W. Bush.

He NEVER picked up the ball!!

Sorin Iancu , Milwaukee , Wisconsin (Sent Monday, July 16, 2007 10:17 PM)

The United States of America is at war . The external enemies are Islamofascism and the states sponsoring it . The internal enemies of the state are more dangerous : Islamists , left wing fascists , anarchists , communists and right wing fascists . All of them are allied against the democratic capitalism and our way of life . Keith Olbermann  ( and Chris M ) are only two of them .The country needs new laws to deal with them and another islamoterrorist attack will give those necessary powers to our leaders.

— Posted by sorin I.

How long you been outta Romania?? Was it still full blown communistic when you were there? I know how alot of Romanians feel about the Turks and all.. I also know that Foreign companies are in Romania building.. The US company Bechtel (I am sure that name will sound familiar to many!) is building new highways there.. I know a person that works for them in Romania.. which he got an ear full from me after he told me! Since they let Bushy in to fight against Iraq, because Turkey wouldn't let them fly over this time as they did when Old Man Bush was in Office!
Romania wouldn't be where it is right now if they would have denied Bushy Boy the right to set up shop with his war there!

You may want to start doing some research and reading about the truth and what is really going on.. Right now the USA is not what it is suppose to be because of the tyrants in the government!

Buna Dimineatza!

PAM! I just read your post KICK BUTT GIRLY!!!! That is the most correct statement I have ever heard! This is why I am A PROUD LIBERAL!
THANK YOU!!!!

Bob W, Chicago, IL  wrote
"Anyway, Wayne's accusation that the liberal Guardian is anti-American and jihadist pretty much proves the point of the article and my post - so thanks for that."
You exagerate
I wrote
"The Guardian is very left oriented and often prints blatantly anti-american articles, some no better than jihadist propaganda.
"
The same can be said of many US Journalists and most if not all Democrat blogsites like this one. Thanks for proving that exageration is a major Liberal/Democrat tactic.

The Gaurdian printed the truncated quotations from the Wolfowitz interview in which he explained that we could not wait Saddam out because of his access to Iraqi's Oil renvenues. By truncating a sentence taken out of context they started the "blood of oil" mantra which has recently gone through such convoluted restructering by the left.
The Guardian printed a retraction of the spurious article but few ever read the retraction.

The Guardian has also printed many anti-US articles written by UK Marxists.
Like CBS the Guardian has a long history of "Fake but accurate" claims which have been proven to be unsupportable as fact.

The News Week poll counted a little more than one thousad respondents out of a population of around 300,000,000 or so, Results are not scientific scarcely covers that.

As I've pointed out no Democrat will ever recognize any positive aspect of the War in Iraq or the War on Terror, for one thing the Liberal Newsfilter will never allow them to see the facts, and they are likely to ignore the facts in any case.
Those who lowered themselves so far as to vote for John Kerry will never raise their eyes from the ground.
Among non Democrats of every political affiliation the News Filter has had a lesser though visible effect. An aproval rating of around 30+% in more reliable though still limited polls shows that despite massive propaganda campaigns of the left, which mimic the occasional statements of Bin Laden, Zawahiri, and the now dead and unlamented Zarqawi, confidence of those who are not limited to blatantly anti-administration news sources remains at 60-70% or better.

At worst if the Polls could be relied upon Bush's ratings are higher than Truman's ratings during the Korean War.

PS
Remember, magazine polls do not decide elections or the outcome of military campaigns.

Also rember that Newsweek started round the world rioting with a fake news article about a Koran being flushed, the Koran in question turned out to have been torn up and flushed by the detainee that owned it, probably because he realized just what his beliefs had brought him to.
Perhaps you folks should flush the Guardian and Newsweek, they seem to have become the Koran of the Liberal Democrats.

Wayne: Nope. You're wrong, and Larry deploying and pulling troops does not necessarily mean defeat. Why people connect pulling the troops out to defeat is beyond me. Sometimes withdrawing is the thing to do because it saves lives. That is not a defeat to me. That is a victory for humanity. And besides, someone has to be involved in a war to either be victorious or defeated. We are not in a war. We are in a policing action. There is no victory or defeat under the current conflict.    

Larry, you related to Baghdad Bob? Wake up and smell the humus.This country will never win a war without the support of the majority on Americans, and we've listened to 4 years of half-truths and spin. Our guys over there are used up. And answer this, why should one GI die in the month of August when the Iraqi government is on holiday because it's "too hot" in Baghdad? Keep drinking that Kool-Aid, and thank President Bar-stool and V.P. Deferement(5 times) for this mess, which all our kids, their kids and their grand kids will be paying for 50 years from now.

P- North Korea first tested it's long range balistic missle program in 1998

"North Korea is developing a family of long-range missiles called the Taepodong. Taepodong 1 was test-fired over Japan in 1998. It caused consternation, not least because of the determination of the North Korean leader, Kim Jong-il, to pursue a nuclear weapons programme."

"North Korea has tested an intercontinental ballistic missile engine capable of hitting the United States, according to a South Korean report.

The potential range of the missile was established by American intelligence from scorch marks and other traces of the engine test, the newspaper Joongang Ilbo said, citing diplomatic sources.

It could reach up to 3,700 miles, enough to hit Alaska."

North Korea missile test 'brings US within range'
By Richard Spencer in Beijing


You stated: "The weapons program was shut down, inspectors were allowed in and he NEVER launched one test missile.  Clinton handled him brilliantly. "

N Korea stated that they were testing a new satalite launch system which the administaration stated was harmless. Lets face it Kim Jong Il was just stringing the US along until they were ready for aditional testing which they followed up on in 2007. North Korea does not trust anybody. Never has and never will. They still believe that they are at war and their entire economy is based upon that fact.

Bottom line Mrs Madeleine Albright's mission was a failure, because it had no teeth. Much the same that Hitler promissed the world that he would not continue hais acts of agreesion after he anexed Austria and Czech.

OK Larry. Pulling them out. Thanks

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