Pat, One of our soldiers who was abducted in Bagdad is married to an "illegal alien".  She was set to be deported because her husband could not testify on her behalf.  Do you have any idea what happened to her?  The story disappeared after a day.

Re Cheney:  About time that Countdown got back to the basics of the energy "industry" meetings.  Even beyond the fact that no environmental groups were involved in these meetings, how can Cheney claim "executive privilege" as to these meetings when (1) private citizens were involved and (2) Cheney himself is evidently not a part of the "executive" branch (these two things taken together meaning apparently that no one who attended those meetings is even covered by the privilege).  The answers to who attended these meetings and what they talked about are still important keys to understanding what is going on in the Middle East today.  Keep it up, Countdown.  Don't let this rest.
Re Fitzgerald:  Am I missing something or does this just confirm Gonzales' total obliviousness, incompetence, malfeasance, and/or non-involvement in the administration of the Justice Department (any of these meaning he should be removed)?  
Re the "Money":  I could speculate that Obama's spending habits may be driven by (1) the fact that he is so far behind in the polls in some key states, and (2) the fact that he has so much more money to spend than other candidates.  In addition, it may relate to how his contributions have been designated between primary and general elections.  I'm not necessarily for Obama, but if he has to spend it now, then he should, especially when he is behind.  It won't do him any good in the general elections if he loses the nomination.  
Finally:  Good job recently at keeping up the blogsite with interesting stuff.  But more frequent postings could avoid so much repetition of the same basic ideas and make the threads a little easier to follow (this latter concept being more important than the former).  This used to be such an easy blogsite because of the clear organization, quick postings, and easy readability.  More recently, however, the threads have become almost unintelligible for a sporadic visitor like me because I have no idea exactly what the messages are responding to and no time or interest in going back to reconstruct peoples' private conversations.  Just a comment, though.    

Sigh!  Okay, here is a Liberal Democrat that indeed did serve her country for 20 years.  I also know a lot of 'liberals' that have served or are serving now.

That being said:  Are you people talking what they are 'registered' as, or just in general?  I certainly know a lot of people that are registered Republicans-and it really does go with the territory in the military-however, they didn't vote for Bush in 2004, and they feel their party has been taken over and given a bad name.  They may have been for the initial invasion, but they are against it now and want to come home or have our troops come home.

Okay, I don't know everybody in the military, and I also know that any polling done hasn't every polled single person in the military.  I also know that depending on where you are and who's asking the question, you may not get a direct answer (like taking a survey in the military where they can narrow you down just by demographics-zap-you don't really answer the way you feel).

When you're in the military, there is no form that you sign stating your political affiliation-religion yes-politics, NO!

Anywho, it doesn't matter anymore what party military personnel are registered with, what matters is that A LOT of them are sick and tired of being at war or worrying about going back to war.  

PEACE!

jen,il (3:10pm):
She got her green card.

This is the same administration/defense department who, according to a USA TODAY report refused to supply our troops with the MRAPs (Mine Resistant Ambush Protected) vehicles proven to deflect IEDs and save lives.(IEDs are responsible for 55% of all combat deaths.)  Better yet, our soldiers were given  armored Humvees (cheaper but not nearly as effective) but we supplied some of these better, much safer vehicles to the Iraqui forces.  
So tell me again how those of you who support this war can defend not protecting our soldiers?
Sixteen (long) months and counting.

From Military Times

"The 2003 Military Times Poll reveals a military more conservative, more Republican, and one that considers itself to be morally superior to the nation its serves.

The figures add fuel to a debate, ongoing since at least the end of the Vietnam War, over whether there is a gap in attitudes between America and its military and whether that is a cause for concern. Especially troubling, some observers say, are indications that military members do not believe the nation's civilian leadership has their best interests at heart.

The poll found:

• About half described their political views as conservative or very conservative; four in 10 called themselves moderate; and only 7 percent called themselves liberal.

• More than half called themselves Republicans, and just 13 percent said they are Democrats. Recent polls of the general public show the nation evenly split, with Democrats, Republicans and independents making up about a third of the population each.

• Two-thirds said they think military members have higher moral standards than the nation they serve. More than 60 percent called the country's moral standards only fair or poor
"
I'll look for later Polls.

From the NIE report
"We assess that greatly increased worldwide counterterrorism efforts over the past five years
have constrained the ability of al-Qa’ida to attack the US Homeland again and have led
terrorist groups to perceive the Homeland as a harder target to strike than on 9/11. These
measures have helped disrupt known plots against the United States since 9/11.
• We are concerned, however, that this level of international cooperation may wane as
9/11 becomes a more distant memory and perceptions of the threat diverge."

Did you eventually end up just copying and pasteing "did not serve" during the Republican/NeoCon list? ;) - Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 2:40 PM)

LOL!! Darn though!! Great suggestion, now why didn't I think of that?  NO, I typed it each time, though it certainly went faster with each name, as evidenced by how many times it was appropriate to use!!

PEACE FRIEND!!

Can our conservative friends actually look someone in the eye and say that this Adminstration has done a good job? I like the different point of views on the blog, but c'mon guys, you can't let your blind hatred of "liberals" make you think that this country has been run well the last 6 years. Domestically or internationally, and Larry, I think the fact that North Korea is starving to death has a lot to do with why they're willing to shut down the nukes.

PS
That would be 20% rather than "205" Independent the shift button of this keyboard is stiff.

Of the Veterans that the Democrats are so proud of at least two have publically confessed to having committed War Crimes including murder of civilians.
Democrats seem most proud of the murderous thugs who try to shift responsibility for their crimes onto others and smear the entire Military.

PS
Remember, the Military vote went overwhelmingly for Bush.

Army Times Poll of Army Men: Wonder what the Poll results would be for Army WIVES!! Considering a lot of them are using FOOD STAMPS to feed their kids while their Army Man is serving our brave Commander In Chief in the Hellhole of Iraq or Afghanistan, I'd venture a LOT of Army Wives are DEMOCRATS or totally disgusted, fed-up Republicans or Independents who are sick of how their loved ones have been ill treated & mistreated by the Bush Administration!

TV Guide's July 23rd issue, Rochell Thomas' "Is It Just Me" page has a piece about the Lifetime TV series "Army Times" -- which has the wife of a Colonel hanging out with spouse of a private. Yeah, right!  Is the Army Colonel's wife having to use Food Stamps?  Is Condoleeza Rice having to use Food Stamps?  She has plenty of money to go shopping for expensive Shoes in New York, when she should be doing her Job!
I'd sure like to see such a separate Poll, just of the Wives of our Troops serving in Iraq.

Wayne, TN (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 3:18 PM)

Copy and paste all you want; however YOU ARE WRONG!! I am comparing those who served their country vs. those who didn't or refused to when called upon.  The stats you copy and paste mean ZERO, NIL, NOTHING – GET IT??

The majority of those who refused to serve, i.e. Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, etc. sent our brave men and women to fight a pre-emptive war when NOTHING was needed pre-empting!!

Get over it Wayne - YOU LOST - AS USUAL!!

Wonderful job, Pam.  Someone should put out a list showing which political party contains the most "me-first" bastards and A**-HOLES.  No, wait- I think we already know, don't we?

Uh, Larry the shrub is following Clinton's plan from the late 90's that he ignored for 6 years and allowed the North to get nukes.  I would say the shrub is a day late and a dollar short, but better late then never.  Try again on anything the shrub was right on.  I can't come up with one thing.  

Can someone tell me why one night the terrorist threat to the country is a joke to Keith and weeks later it is now a real threat. How can keith have his cake and eat it too. He cant seem to make up his mind and that fact is glaring. I have little hope of thais being posted as almost none of my comments do. I just felt that as a Veteren and retired fire officer I may have some valid points to make.

Re: the capture of the terrorist (Khaled Abdul)earlier this month. Isn't this what the war on terror was supposed to be about? Hunt down and capturing these terrorists? Do hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi's need to be killed in order to fight our war on terror?

Do we invade our own states when searching for criminals? No. We use intelligence and resources. We don't blow up the whole gd state.

Am I wrong?

Heres a link to the most recent Army Times Poll I can find at this time.
This Poll would predate the Surge.
http://www.militarycity.com/polls/2006poll_iraq.php

More than half of serving US Military believe we should be in Iraq.
Confidence varies on each issue. Less than half disaprove of Bush's handling of the war, even before the surge.
More than half approve of Bush as President.

Also apparently far fewer US troops have had multiple deployments to Iraq than the Press would have you believe.

Linda, the Boondocks, rural Kentucky (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 3:27 PM)

My prayers, form this point on, will also include you and your family.

God Bless!!

"The 2003 Military Times Poll reveals a military more conservative, more Republican, and one that considers itself to be morally superior to the nation its serves."

That was then and this is now.  I know how many of my military friends and family members (my husband & brothers included), are still 'registered' Republicans, however, party affiliation doesn't mean party approval, and I know for a fact that they are digusted with what a majority of Republican polititians have done since 2003.

This is 2007-over four long years of war, and you might take another poll that military folks say they are still registered as a Republican, but I can almost guarantee you that they don't approve of Bush nor his policies in Iraq.

Michael, Philadelphia, PA (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 3:38 PM)

Thank you Michael, as you are 100% correct!!

Thank you former President Bill Clinton - YOU ROCKED!! (and still do today)

Hey Wayne of TN:

Your Army Times Poll is not very valid and also does not include all branches of the military. -

http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/005663.php

So, when you say

Remember that the Democrats make up the smallest minority of our armed forces, and Liberal Democrats are almost non existent in uniform. -
Wayne, M'town TN (Sent Tuesday, July 17, 2007 10:23 PM)

It's an opinion not based on facts and, frankly, is plain stupidity.

Please cite a valid poll for this view instead of an invalid one taken three years ago because I would love to see it.  Secondly, it is very typical for Armed Forces personnel to keep their political opinion to themselves as they do not have the same freedom of speech protection that the rest of the US population has (I do come from a military family, brother & father served in Navy with niece in the Army who is in Iraq, and if she dies, I will never ever vote Republican again).  And before you become critical of me, the military will not take me as I am Type 1 diabetic.  

The reason being is that they are not allowed to be critical of the "Commander-in-Chief".

So Wayne, just like FOX noise you report something as fact that is quite frankly, your opinion.

I also feel, having met many persons in the military, that they tend to reflect the nation as a whole (my opinion).  

Please Wayne, although you are Conservative, we are all Americans and this Administration and persons like you have polarized this nation to its own detriment.

And when I see ignorant posts like the Larry Charleston SC post, it makes me laugh how incredibly clueless people take very complicated situations like this "War on Terror" and make very ignorant, stupid simplistic comments with personal attacks against people who feel differently.  Again, we are all Americans and America has had both liberal and conservative elements throughout our nation's history.

Finally, when I hear politicians claim that those opposed to this war are for "losing the war in Iraq," they are being very disingenuous as all Americans want to defeat terrorism and want to again, like we used to, have more allies than enemies and lead our allies to create a more democratic world.  
No one is for losing except those that are for a policy that has proven to create more terrorists & more enemies, and make our military less effective and probably as weak as it has been since it was created.

Finally, to those that say Bill Clinton "didn't try" let me remind everyone of a fact, Clinton was being impeached while at the same time attempting to kill Osama, you know, the one who actually did attack this country.  Mr. Clinton was accused of "wagging the dog" because Conservatives accused then-President Clinton of trying to create a conflict to take the country's attention away from his legal problems.  When, in actuality, he was attempting to avoid a "9/11" based on the intelligence at the time.  Ironically, President Bush did not attempt to, at any time before 9/11, stop Osama in any way.  

By the way, Osama is still out there, this war was a disaster and has made us less safe, and most people with any intelligence understand that.

Don

Sorry Pam, your list means nothing. WEBB might be the only qualified one to speak on behalf of the liberals, but Lindsey Graham handed him his lunch on Sunday. Give a complete list of every member of Congress for a comparison, don't pick and choose. The numbers will speak for themselves. A little more research please. If you post a complete list of every member of both the house and senate and whether or not they served then we can discuss. PS General Clark is a member of neither House nor Senate. If you want to include people who say they are lib / Republican and put them on the list , I'm sure you lose. Nice try.  And once again, research how North Korea came to last weekend without the wonderful Albright. Bush policy wins again , get over it.

Hey Pam - re your research about who served in the Armed Forces.

Maybe you would know something. How exactly does one know "the Military VOTED overwhelmingly for Bush".

What data is available for that since all votes go to local districts and are not counted separately? Since you are the research maven maybe you'd know how to find that information?

Jamie, going crazy in CV, CA (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 3:15 PM)

Great post friend, you ROCK!! Also, take it easy down there and get some rest from packing.  I will miss you and also envy you!!

PEACE!!

Alright, the United States can't attack a disputed border region in Pakistan due to Sovereignty, you know where I'm going with this.  This is cowardice on the part of this administration, to not go after an enemy that is so hostile, so vile, so ridiculous, and say he's not important, what was Iraq for?  I don't even think they (William Kristol, Cheney, Yoo, and so many others from AEI) could even consider the after effects, there was no reason, just to "flex" American muscle and get their (remember this is Cheney's country) oil reserves.  Look where this has gotten our country, and for the democrats to say, impeachment is off the table, they must collectively take a step back and look at this.  The United States attempted quite possibly the stupidest military action in its history at a turning point in history with thugs and morons at it's helm.  We invaded an Arab Country (with more than one Islamic sect vying for control), with two clear factions, and we expected no resistance, how stupid could Rumsfeld, Cheney, Feith, Kagan, all be?  
Did no one bother to do any research?  Americans paid for the stupidity of members of this administration with their lives, and will continue to do so.  Why is all the attention off the real threat?  Why did the media shift to Iraq with the White House?  Oh, Bush will be vindicated, will he?  Who went down with Vietnam?  He's not a leader, no Truman (as much as he likes to think of himself in those terms), he's not competent and he's not surrounded by staff that is competent enough to deliver fair information to him.
This era will be remembered but not for good works, but for terrorism and ignorance in the face of it.

Jen, When he called Kerry an asshole ! LOL

Actually, "W" has been right alot - stock market over 14000 and I'm making money. Employment high, still got my job. And when he declared liberalism dead. RIP

The US occupation in Iraq has killed and maimed thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis.  It has destroyed an ancient country.  It has allowed the theft of billions of US resources.

Why is this a good thing?

It's an opinion not based on facts and, frankly, is plain stupidity. - Don, Denver, CO (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 4:05 PM)

Don, Welcome to "Wayne's World"!! He's really a piece of work!! I usually have my scroll bar on "ORANGE ALERT" and never read his stupidity anymore; however, that line about the military was at the bottom of a post yesterday!!

I had to call him on his bullshit and thank you for doing the same!!

PEACE!!

Ok Countdown Moderators and Editors thanks for not publishing the unedited version of this early this am that jumped like and old record and made no sense like most of my posts.

It is  Dubya,Dick,Collin Powell,Rumsfeld,Tenet,Condi and you known now as the Decider' and his Executioners that Lead this Country into and Illegal War Killed Innocent WOMEN AND CHILDREN for a multitudes of made up reasons,killed American Troops for a multitude of made up reasons,lay the guilt and pain on all parties involved of their OIL Whore War under the guise of WMD,Saddam the bad guy,of course you Sodomized the United States of America,with your Congressional Republican buddies,and Oil Lobby Contrbutions to grease your reasoning,McCain,Mitch McConnell,Lindsy Graham,Libermann and the whole bunch of BABY and WOMEN KILLERS,gutless bastards,who set into motion a Civil War now name it a- Quida to divert the blame and ease their conscientiuos.
Those 8 Marines that are being tried for following the ROE at Haditha while their COS covered it up,cheered them on and watched are no different then you.
Oh call it collateral damage.But the fact is its murder and the REAL folks guilty are at the TOP.
Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame Wilson tried to stop the insanity.
You can rationalize this till hell freezes over but ya killed Innocent, Men, Women and CHILDREN,"MR SHOCK and AWE for OIL" and LIES.MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.DADDY HAPPY NOW!

Worse yet you killed Our Own Troops for reasons in a war you made up as you went along.YOU STUPID ASSES!
General Walker was right you didn't try to use diplomacy and always,ALWAYS the MILTARY should be the last CARD PLAYED.
You played a deck of CARDS CALLED THE BIG LIE.

Not for the defense of the Country as Outline by the Constitution which you piss on,on a daily basis,with things like executive privilege and lies,then have your Republican Cronies in Congress use the rule book to justify your actions.I haven't found this 60 vote bullshit in the Constitution.
Robert Rules of Parliamentary Murder By DICK AND DUBYA'S Illegal War.
Yes you are the Decider and Your and your Dick the Vice Decider,and your Pal Rove Vader the Klingon LIAR.
Wonder how many WOMEN AND CHILDREN you nailed in that first round of SHOCK and AWE,Dubya and Dick.
Bet ya never even thought of em just laughed oooo awwwe like a fire works show we got em now Daddy.
No sir,don't Try those 8 Marines at Haditha for following orders while following their ROE or their commanders covered it up because they ordered more than likely, or those that shot five prisoners to come to the Aid of their Brothers in Arms in another incident.
You have killed way more for far worse reasons and your Republican buddies accessories to those killing under the guise of a war on terror.
A war for Republican Oil Money.
The Marines were there for all your damn illegal reasons.You can't even protect while they are there or take care of em when they are hurt and come home.
Your Republican Cronies Continue to Support the Made Up Reasons for Fear al-Quida or whatever you are using to wash your hands for having killed so many WOMEN and CHILDREN in that first Salvo and those that followed.And now that Civil War you inially denied.

Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame Wilson,tried to warn you about going in the first place and so did some of the other commanders regarding and Army of Occupation.
But that's right you busy out there talking to you all moral and family values God.Line out a couple of those old Commandments eh DOC as needed or when the Family Values Call Girl Motel is Open.
You My Man and those that Support you in this Congress,yes that would be you "Republican Mitch MCConnell Twerps" that have let this Murder and Insanity Go On Every Time a Suicide bomb goes off over there and kills Women,Children,Old men and Our Troops.That's on you.Every time and IED goes off that's on you.Every time you sneak someone Son,Father,Mother,Daughter in the back door of DOVER that would be on YOU OLD OIL and GREED WHORES.You can't win it's your mind your running from and guilt your you make worse by killing more.

You Have done Far Worse and Call it Collateral Damage to ease your conscience,WMD one week,Saddam the next,insurgents,the next,al-quida the next,they'll follow us here the next,no civil war,a civil war, and excuse after excuse like Lady McBeth washing Duncan's blood form her hands.Sorry it will be your history and legacy and it won't be proud.

The Marines they were following their Orders from the Decider and his Generals.Shouldn't have been there in the First Place.

Now you may stay up tonight and and use some damn rule to bitch your way into a stalemate.Well you did that was an easy bet.
Sleep tight knowing all the TROOPS that have died and been wounded and all the WOMEN,CHILDREN,OLD MEN,OLD WOMEN,and EVERY ONE who has died no matter how you try and Rationalize.Join Lady McBeth,and Pontious Pilot in cleansing your hands.
The blood on your hands coming off bro and you keep letting it go on!
You ALL go home on your WELL DESERVED RECESSES,SENATOR WEBB tried to give the Troops some R&R.
Yes lay around in your nice air conditioned homes and try to rationalize as you may the death and destruction you have caused but it's going away.

Yes sleep tight try to see the faces of the dead Troops as you dream,the horror of their wifes,husbands,mothers,fathers,families face parade by in your dreams,the dead Iraqi women and children,the dead Iraqis.Yes you Mitch McConnell,Lindsy Graham,John McCain of questionable fame,look up Swede Larson on McCain,and all you other Republicans who were against the War.Liver lips Libermann.
The horror and pain of the families here when they found out their loved ones had been killed or injured.The wounded with faces burned beyond recognition,the vegetables in the back wards of hospitals,and of course,no PTSD  you deny at will,and now we find out multiple discharges for personality disorders.I think every member of Congress need to have a physological assement that has supported this war and be tested on his knowledge of the Constitution.
No Congressman Left Behind!Idiots don't even know what it says  regarding defense of the nation.

Play politics with their lives and our and Sweet Dreams.

May God Undamn and Forgive your cruel and ignorant souls.

I have to say I served in Iraq and Afghanistan and still support the President. I am capable of realizing the mistakes that was made during the initial invasion and as for finding Bin Laden there was a little line we could not cross to go get him. It was called the Pakistani border.

Independent, Texas (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 4:10 PM)

Very good question and I'm on it. I don't know if or how the information could even be 100% accurate as those stationed overseas vote absentee and those ballots are usually counted in close races.  I remember it being a big issue in Florida in 2000.

Jamie, I think I am correct on that one; however, please correct me if I am wrong.

I'll start researching Inde!!

Larry,  george bush has done more to revive liberalism in this country than I could have ever hoped for.  While his employment numbers are getting better they are still no where near the Clinton administration.  I'm glad your making money but if Clinton wassn't allowed to take credit for the stock market neither can bush.  I'll give you the kerry thing but for a completly differant reason.  

"thank you pam. that list should be published every day, in every newspaper and on the web.
barbinalbanyny (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 1:52 PM)

You're welcome and I agree!! It just might shut up the TV pundits, i.e. Hannity, the Comedian Rush and O'Reilly who have ruthlessly supported this war AND George W. Bush!!

They all SMACK of hypocrisy!!

PEACE!!



Pam Bignardi, San Pedro
"

Pam's list has been on the web for years.
It is a list of Politicians and jurists not serving military.

You may note that Air National Guard service for a democrat is considered honorable while Air National Guard Service for a Republican is considered despicable. Bill Clinton avoiding service by taking advantage of student deferment is given a free pass while Cheny taking advantage of student deferments is considered despicable.
Also two of the Democrats on that list have publically admitted to warcrimes including murder of civilians.
Democrats most respect murderous thugs who try to shift responsibility for their crimes onto their fellow soldiers.  

B.A. Buddusky (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 4:47 PM)

Your most passionate yet. Well done.

Brian CT (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 4:47 PM)

Thank you for your service. I had family there as well.

I do have a question. Why, in your opinion, is "a little line we could not cross to go get him. It was called the Pakistani border" different from that little line called the Iraqi border?

I'm not being sarcastic.

If, as we were told, we went into Iraq to destroy WMDs that threatened us (yes, I know that was a lie but at that time that is what we were told), they why can't we cross the Pakistani border to get to those who threaten us?

I'm curious to hear what you've been told about this.

thanks,

When exactly did Graham the cracker hand Webb his lunch on Sunday?  Webb called it, the cracker attended dog & pony shows. Hell, if winning a debate only requires the ability to talk over the other guys, then alright folks, let's run for office!

Wayne, TN (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 5:01 PM)

You're A LIAR WAYNE - PERIOD!! I put that together and how dare you!!

You lost and now you're going to LIE in some twisted last ditch effort??

Go to Hell MR. BAD HAND - another FAT LIE!! You truly are a pig and a COWARD!!

There is no way to know how anyone in the country votes, we have to believe what they tell us which is usually pretty accurate.  Absentee and provisional votes are generally not counted unless the vote is really close but that varies from state to state.  We do know that in 2004 the republicans used caging lists of military personel to challenge thier votes making sure they did not get counted.  This is complicated but I am going to try to explain it.

Caging is a direct mail tactict.  What they do is pay more to send mail to an address and if that person is not there it gets returned to the sender. Direct mail people use it to shorten thier mailing lists so they are not mailing to people who no longer live at the same address.

Republicans sent mail to military personel in the south. (You can see the lists in Greg Palasts last book I have forgotten the name.)  When the mail was returned to the republicans because the military personnel were in Iraq and not the address on thier voter registration the republican party made a list of whose votes to challenge.  So when the military person showed up to vote, the republican at the ID table challenged thier vote on the basis that they did not live at the address at which they were registered.  It is a crime to lie about where you live on your voter registration.  

So if the soldier was lucky they got a provisional ballot that was probably never counted.  If they voted absentee the republicans challenged their vote and they never knew it.  They also did this in black neighborhoods to people guilty of voting while black. As well as making sure thier were not enough voting machines in poor areas. They can only do this where there is a republican secratary of state.  Which is why there were 8 hour lines in Ohio.  And then there are the machines that count backwards.  But thats for another day.

So if republicans are so loved by the military why don't they want them to vote?
                     

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 4:51 PM)

(Jamie, tell me if this has changed since my own TDY.)

You see, Pam, my experience was that you didn't have to be "overseas". Unless you had established residency at your duty posting, you always voted absentee ballot back to your state of residence. That may have changed since the late 70s but that is the way it was for us.

Therefore, those "residents" voted in the local polling places and those votes were indistinguishable from the rest of that voting public.

Those "non-residents" voted via absentee ballot which is indistinguishable from an absentee ballot cast by any other person.

Those TDY in foreigh countries, however, I believe did have a service to collect those absentee ballots for delivery back to the states but, again, those ballots went to the local districts. Possible I suppose, due to the typically late counting of them, to infer a voting pattern due to before and after tallies. However, I'm not even certain that they were counted unless, as in the 2000 election, they were needed to make a decision.

I just don't know how someone can assert that "the Military VOTED overwhelmingly for Bush".

I don't understand where data to support such a claim could be found. Of course, it could be based on polling data but, again, there is that old fogey about revealing this information within the ranks that would make that suspect to me.

Very curious, wouldn't you say?

Course - I could be all wet here and things could have really changed over the last 30 years. Looking forward to your findings.

jen,il & Jamie - Thank you.  I don't believe we can get an accurate number, sorry Inde.  I also don't believe anyone CAN OR SHOULD spout that the majority of the military voted for George W. Bush, or vote republican.

Again, it's just more of Mr. Bad Hand Wayne's LIES!! Still waiting for him to answer C A about his Vietnam service, or LACK THERE OF, which is more like it.

Mr. Copy & Paste with the bad hand needs to SHUT UP!!

I don't think any research will provide the accurate answer to your question Inde.

PEACE!!

I thought when the shrub stole, I mean, took office 20 years ago (I know it hasn't been that long, it just feels like it), he swore to uphold the constitution, but I think he meant to say he would hold up the constitution so Dick Cheney could shoot holes in this priceless document. It must make for a happy Dick when he sees how there is more outcry over shooting someone than taking away our civil liberties, I know I wouldn't go hunting with this killer

From list posted by Pam Bignard
"George W. Bush: six-year National Guard commitment (in FOUR years); questions about his service remain!!;  RONALD REAGAN: made war propaganda movies;  Gerald Ford: Navy, WWII;  Phil Gramm: did not serve;  John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross;  Bob Dole: Army officer WWII;  Chuck Hagel: two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, Vietnam;  Disgraced and now in prison Congressman Duke Cunningham: nominated for Medal of Honor, Navy Cross, Silver Stars, Air Medals, Purple Hearts;  Jeff Sessions: Army Reserves, 1973-1986;  JC Watts: did not serve;  Lindsey Graham: National Guard LAWYER;  George Herbert Walker Bush: Pilot in WWII. Shot down by the Japanese; Tom Ridge: Bronze Star for Valor in Vietnam.

"

As I mentioned earlier National Guard Service for a Democrat is considered honorable.
Reagan was a Democrat during WW2 so his being in the service at all is unusual, but of course they had the draft both then and during Korea and Vietnam conflicts so Democrats had to serve whether they wanted to or not.
John McCain is regularly villified by the Democrats despite his honorable service.

Duke Cunningham is an example of just why honorable service does not mean that one is above temptation, John Murtha barely escaped being indicted along with his fellow Democrats involved in the ABSCAM sting, otherwise he would also be in the slammer, another example of homorable service being no gaurantee of morality and respect for the law in later years.

Larry re Bush being right about N. Korea --

What you fail to note is that North Korea was responding to South Korea's delivery of a large supply of fuel oil -- against the wishes of the United States.

Larry: If you think the North Koreans are taking themselves out of the Nuclear Arms game and doing so because GW has asked them to, or threathened them to do so, or fashioned some grand agreement to get them to do so, you need to think again, real hard. The North Koreans are playing Bush like a flute and will be back building more nuclear warheads before you can sneeze.  

Pam remember wayne isn't the only person out there forming opinions without any facts or thought.  The entire bush administration does it.  Your research and responses help educate.  Republicans can't have that.  So know that wayne will continue to lie but it is always important to correct him as it is always important to speak truth to power.  And when he gets on your last nerve just picture him in his dark dank life desparatly trying to cling to a fantasy. While the rest of the country has left him behind.    

'I have to say I served in Iraq and Afghanistan and still support the President. I am capable of realizing the mistakes that was made during the initial invasion and as for finding Bin Laden there was a little line we could not cross to go get him. It was called the Pakistani border.
Brian CT (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 4:47 PM)'

Thank you for your service, and I'm glad you made it home alive.  More power to you for supporting Bush-he needs it.

That being said, you're trying to make it so cut and dry about bin Laden, also, your doing a disservice to Bush.  He wants him 'dead or alive', then couldn't care less where he is.  'They' don't know where he is, but you do-how is that?

I suggest that you see what has happened on the border there, and what Bush has allowed to happen.

Also, there were mistakes made, and they are still being made today.  Had Bush listened to his military folks and not a bunch of wankers that have never served, a lot of those mistakes might not have been made to begin with.  What about now?  Over four years later?  

Again, I thank you for your service, but don't blame the Pakistan border for bin Laden still MIA after all of these years.  Put it where it squarely belongs-on the shoulders of George W. Bush.  He should have 'stayed the course' in Afghanistan, instead of screwing it up in Iraq.

PEACE!

And when he gets on your last nerve just picture him in his dark dank life desparatly trying to cling to a fantasy. While the rest of the country has left him behind.    
jen,il (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 6:14 PM)

LOL!! Can I picture him clinging to a building, say 2,000 feet high instead? That might work!!

Thanks!!

Wayne, TN wrote: "According to an Army Times Poll of Professional military men 60% are Republican, 205 are Independent and 13% are Democrats with the remainder listed as other. Liberal Democrats are almost absent from the serving military."

Isn't this from the same guy who tells us that polls don't mean anything?

", but don't blame the Pakistan border for bin Laden still MIA after all of these years."
Would you like a birdseye view of the Tribal region?

http://www.maplandia.com/pakistan/f-a-t-a/n-waziristan/

"Isn't this from the same guy who tells us that polls don't mean anything? "
News week polls with answers from one out of every  300,000 US citizens can hardly be considered accurate now can they.

"Sorry Pam, your list means nothing. WEBB might be the only qualified one to speak on behalf of the liberals, but Lindsey Graham handed him his lunch on Sunday."

Larry, whatever you're stirring into that Kool-Aid, I'd cut it with something. Webb wiped the floor with Graham, who's bitter now that he isn't going to get a gig in the McCain administration.

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 12:45 PM)

Yeah Pam!  Thanks for doing your research and showing who the real cowards are!

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