ABOUT THE NEWS HOLE

It's the new award-winning blog* from the cast and crew of the award-winning television news hour** "Countdown with Keith Olbermann."

We heard about this whole "blogosphere" business from Tom DeLay, and came to the immediate realization that we too, "needed to become involved" in it.

So here it is. Covering the big news, the small news, medium-sized and irregular, The News Hole strives to bring everything you love or hate about Countdown to the internets.

Your feedback and hate mail is encouraged.

*Countdown's "Best of the Web Awards" 2007
**The News Hole's "Best of the TV Awards" 2006



What a Difference a Decade makes

Posted: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 1:39 PM by Countdown
Filed Under:

MAIN PAGE

Email this EMAIL THIS

Comments

Didn't one of our great NEWSHOLE bloggers already post this?! I already watched it and fought the urge to upchuck.

As I said, even if you showed this to our Dictator-Wanna-Be, he would say that 9/11 changed everything and if you disagree with what's going on now, you're "soft on terror." Besides, the current occupants at the White House believe they've been called to these actions by the good Lord himself, so NO ONE can EVER tell them they might - just might - be wrong. "They" are the good guys, so whatever actions are deemed necessary by them are not subject to negotiation, "quaint" conventions, or debate.

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 1:47 PM)

If Mr. Cheney had this philosophy at this juncture in time, why did he switch to a more war-like stance to take out Saddam Hussein ten years later? Were these the words of a pro-Bush 41 as opposed to a Pro-Bush 43 and what transpired to change 180 degrees since 41. Cheney did not have to be a signatory on PNAC unless Cheney was lying in 1994 but telling his truth in 2002. Judging from his fascial expression, it apperas that Cheney is abiding by his own sense of rationale in '94. Could it be that the Neocons got to this man as well and perchance convinced this guy that Iraq would be a walk in the park or did Mr. Cheney's religion change since leaving that of a religionist to that of a war-igionist, war being the guidelines of this Bush 43 administration. I wonder who was duped in this matter?

Simpliticus (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 1:55 PM)

Watch "The Power Of Nightmares" it is a 3 part series by the bbc. It can be watched on line for free.  It explains why these guys will say anything that is momentarily useful to get what they want in the long run. It also explains how incredibly dillusional there thinking is and how they rely on the 20% who likes to be told what to think.  During the first gulf war the soviet union could still be used as a boogieman albeit a weaking one, now we need new boogiemen to save us from ourselves.      

Is this just a slow news day, do we get to see rumsfeld shaking hands with saddam next.  

jen,il (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 2:20 PM)

Hey!! Check this out!! It's not QUITE on subject but has to do with one of DICK's mentors, Don Rumsfeld.

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20070815/ts_nm/usa_rumsfeld_resignation_dc

If I was a Republican that lost in 2006, I would be PI$$ED OFF and asking Donny for unemployment checks!!!

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 2:23 PM)

Just like every teacher tells you when taking a test.  When you have a gut instinct about the correct answer, don't change your mind -- your first instinct is usually correct.

Carol, Long Valley NJ (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 2:25 PM)

what a hypocritical jerk...

ranks, seattle (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 2:29 PM)

>>If Mr. Cheney had this philosophy at this juncture in time, why did he switch to a more war-like stance to take out Saddam Hussein ten years later?<<


Because Dubbya was willing to let Cheneys "former" company dominate the rebuilding contracts. Lining their wallets with American blood.

Keith (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 2:33 PM)

Everybody needs to shout out "Flipflopper". Why are the Democrats not jumping on this? If the tables were turned & a Democrat had made these comments, he or she would have been pilloried by now. The Democrats should use every chance that is handed to them.
Sorry, I forgot-they're on vacation.

Nanalinda, San Antonio, TX (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 2:34 PM)

A war was part of a cynical political strategy to hold onto Republican rule. The sad part is that it worked.

Russell in Maryland (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 2:34 PM)

Hey folks 9/11 changed everything....for the worse.
Deadeye Deferment Dick flip-flop? I'm shocked I tell you shocked! What a difference a decade does make indeed! Of course back then Deadeye Deferment Dick didn't realize the ENORMOUS AMOUNTS OF MONEY TO BE STOLEN (er)MADE IN IRAQ.

Bill Rochester NY (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 2:39 PM)

9/11 did not change the situation in Iraq, nor did Iraq create the tragedy of 9/11. What, then, is the rationale for Richard Bruce Cheney's complete about-face on the insanity of such a war as he and George W. Bush instigated?

Niels, down on Bayou DeGradeabelle, Post-Katrina MS (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 2:44 PM)

Spin is Everything

Judith Lane Gregory (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 2:45 PM)

Do you think Deferrment Dick sees the faces of dead children in his dreams?

naked Lynn, D.C. (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:16 PM)

Krista Swisher, you are correct, I also watched that video yesterday and could taste the bile in my stomach, yuck!  Somebody already posted this but I feel their assessment is spot on.  "It's only a bad idea if Clinton invaded Iraq."  The neocons have been doing this for years, it doesn't matter what a Democrat or a progressive or a liberal says, just shout 'em down and yell to everyone within earshot what a stupid idea it is.  No the 'cons don't have to worry about being hypocrites because 9/11 "changed everything" so quit pointing out our hypocrocies because that's unpatriotic and only aids the terrorists.  I used to wonder how these neocons could stand to look at themselves in the mirror and then I remembered.  Vampires don't have souls and cast no reflection!    

Rocky Mountain Guy, Colorado (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:17 PM)

The Newshole?  Oh, my bad!  I thought this was Ann Coulter's blog.

Mike, Austin, TX (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:22 PM)

Simpliticus:  I think Cheney speaks with his (Halliburton-filled) pocketbook.  Plus, he was talking here after-the-fact that 41 DIDN'T invade Iraq, and had to support that (correct) decision.  Sigh.

Res Ipsa Loquitor (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:30 PM)

What changed?  911.

Question:  Knowing that Saddam used WMD repeatedly in the past.  And knowing how cranky and unpredictable and anti-USA Saddam was, would you have trusted Saddam to never ever ever give WMD to terrorists for use in the US?

Brian, Los Angeles (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:30 PM)

According to most of the comments, it would appear most of the readers who have commented on this story believe no one is allowed to change their opinion.  Especially after ten years.  I suppose none of the readers have ever changed their opinion.  They view this as "lying" or "mistrust", when in actuality Mr. Cheney is merely expressing his opinion at that time.  Then he changed that opinion years later.  Big deal.  Their own Mr. Kerry waffled back and forth from week to week, and they give him a free pass.  Give me a break!

Brandon, Johnson City, TN (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:35 PM)

His statement above is conventional wisdom of statehood.  His stance now is after time at Haliburton and the dark side w/rove.  Not that he wasnt always reactionary.

keith g coatesville pa (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:36 PM)

Where was this tape in 2004? John Kerry should have used this then and he could have become President.

Martin Smith, Rolla, Missouri (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:38 PM)

...and John Kerry is a flip flopper?

Doug Alston, Trabuco Canyon, CA (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:40 PM)

Krista,, you are ignoring all the evidence that 9/11 was just the excuse the adminasstration needed to justify the invasion of Iraq.  Much has been documented about their (Cheney, Wolfowitz, Bush and Rummy's)desire to engage Iraq before 9/11.  The mythical Iraq-9/11 link was just smokescreen so that they could get all the lemmings to follow along.

Doug (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:41 PM)

These shameless a$$holes will say anything at any time to support whatever is in their own personal or political interests.

The only thing interesting here is that it over 4 years to get this tape out of the vault.  Where was this when it would have really mattered - like prior to the invasion of Iraq?

Our media is complicit in this war.

Sue, West Allis, Wisconsin (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:42 PM)

These comments were made by Dick Cheney <before> we committed to taking out Saddam Hussein.  I am not defending the man.  He was obviously the CEO of one of the nation's largest oilfield service companies for a good reason (as far as his corporate proprietary skills were concerned, that is).  Oilfield companies are known for (among other things) their stubborn, hard-headed approach to business and Bush and Cheney have definitely carried <that> into their political careers.
  The United States of America is a 230+ year-old representative democracy that deserves and depends upon an adequately and sufficiently informed electorate for its survival.  This administration's "corporate proprietary" lock on information has denied this country's electorate the access to the information they deserve and require to make informed choices at the ballot box. As a taxpaying voting citizen, if I am refused the information I need to make a quality informed decision, I am going to be highly disinclined to support ANY administration or government entity that denies me information I feel is necessary to make the kinds of decisions that I need to make.  Period.

Bill McFarlin, Jr. Upland, California (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:44 PM)

Our problem is not Bush or Cheney for long anymore...the real problem is that NO GOP 2008 candidate is very much different from these traitors...and almost all Democratic candidates will not serve America either. Our democracy has perverted into a slavery to Israel. No president to come will give our country back to us.

John Wash, Seattle, (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:49 PM)

Cheney's philosophy is to kill all of them before they kill us. An impossible task, and one that has brought down many civilizations in the past. He hoped that out of chaos would come order, as in New World Order. One party. One power. And, it's working. They're getting rid of the Kurds to protect Turkey, getting American control of the Middle East at the expense of thousands of lives on both sides, who they could care less about. Absolute power corrupts absolutely.

Janet Walsh (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:49 PM)

How do cameramen keep Dick Cheney in focus? He spins faster than a Dremel Moto-Tool.

AB Campbell (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:50 PM)

That is naive. Cheney was made CEO of Halliburton because of his POLITICAL CONNECTIONS. They own him, and have made him a multi-millionairre. He is just a shill for them, telling them who to pay off, and how to make billions of dollars.

Janet Walsh (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:51 PM)

This video show clear that the war in Iraq was only caused for the 50 billions contract to months before the war  with Haliburton, if some body need more proof, that somebody will denied that our light come from the sun.

Alberto Burgos (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:52 PM)

On a different note:  Looks like someone at Faux Made-Up News has been spending a lot of time editing Wikipedia (most of the edits have been done to entries on Keith Olbermann).  The IP address of the editing computer has been traced to a block of IP addresses owned by Faux.  

While this story is covered in a lot of places on the web, the most comprehensive can be found here:

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2007/8/14/212516/918

I suppose if you can't do anything right the first time, you can always try changing the information later (lookie lookie how they've scrubbed the Reagan legacy).

Enjoy!

Sue, West Allis, Wisconsin (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:57 PM)

What a hypocritical jerk, and his buddy Bush is just as bad and I hope they remember that all the blood from the soldier who died is on their hands.

Carmen Colorado (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 3:58 PM)

Bill, I must point out to you that the "representative" part of our government only means that we get to vote on who becomes a senator or representative, NOT on the president!  According to the rules of the Electoral College procedures, the people in the Electoral College only have to be "guided" by the majority of the state opinion.  If they disagree with the majority, they are free to vote however they want.  Whoever the president is, is clearly not up to us.  Of course, one must consider the fact that the Congress members are a majority vote, which usually leaves a sizeable minority without representation.  Part of the problem with an "all or nothing" sort of electoral system.

Cat, Scottsdale, AZ (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:05 PM)

Thanks for your support, Rocky Mountain (3:17 post). And, Doug (3:41 post) my post said that "...he would say...". I was attempting to think like our Dictator-Wanna-Be, and my brain cells and soul need a good cleansing because of it. I know this current crop at the White House had been salivating to get into Iraq before 9/11 because Sadam was still in Iraq, and GW's dad looked humilated because Clinton beat him, AND Sadam tried to kill GW's dad. But, thanks for keeping me on my toes, Doug!

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:11 PM)

Brandon, Cheney will have a free pass in being allowed to change his mind, when you & others stop caling a Democrat who has a change in thinking a flip flopper. Did you afford John Kerry the same courtesy?

Nanalinda, San Antonio, TX (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:12 PM)

Cheney changed his tune when Born-Again-Bush asked him to select a Vice-Presidental candidate to run with him and help him restore his Daddy's honor, the way BAB's mom, Babs, told him to!

George Lester, Salem, VA (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:14 PM)

WHY is MSNBC the only network broadcasting this?  I hope Brian Williams airs this tonight on NBC nightly news!  What do these people in charge really believe?!

Cameron Fure, Marquette, Michigan (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:16 PM)

Everybody quit your whining and get back to work instead of playing around on the internet.

Your Boss (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:20 PM)

"how many dead Americans is Saddam worth?" INDEED!

Pete Bogs, Suncoast, FL (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:27 PM)

I hope we see this in every Democratic campaign advertisement

M. Suza (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:35 PM)

Cheney is a horrible leader and should not be allowed to serve the public again.  After watching that, how can you not say he has some serious mental deficiencies?  The situation in the Middle East in the past 13 years is  the SAME if not WORSE.  The Syrians and Iranians would love to carve up the country.  The Kurds are still troubling Turkey.  Sick, sick, sick.  Can you say 'War Crimes Tribunal'?

Keith, Raleigh, NC (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:42 PM)

Well, even though Hindsight is Golden, all Cheney saw in the mirror when he looked at his 'Hindsight', was a blank check from Halliburton.

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:45 PM)

The President's Dick is only saying why we couldn't do it, because we didn't do it.  Now, we do it, and he says why we did do it.

Talvenada, Phila., PA (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:48 PM)

Do all of the Republicans have early Alzheimer's disease?

Kally Baron (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:49 PM)

Can we please impeach this idiot now???

voter mcvoterson (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:50 PM)

If that shoe was on a democrats foot wouldn't Cheney call that being "flip flop" a term the republicans love to use. There's only two things I hate about Cheney and thats his face.

judy workman (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:53 PM)

Each of you that have written negative comments about Vice President Cheney are still alive. No terrorist have hit your shopping mall, your restaurant, your homes...as they have been doing in Israel since 1948. Your current government...like it or not...has done a very good job of ensuring that we have not been hit since 9/11.

Having said this, we will be hit and hard...the terrorist in the Middle East and the cells currently in the United States want to kill as many of us as they can. Once that happens....and it will...the FBI, the CIA and other intelligence agencies have told us that we will be hit and hit hard. What will you have to say about your neocons' then?

We have become very soft since 9/11 and complacent....we shouldn't be. We should be working very hard to ensure that the next government we put in place is very strong on our national security...unfortunately the current of 19 candidates running for President don't impress me...I pray that a strong leader will step forward....for all of our wives and children and grandchildren.

Padre (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:54 PM)

"What changed?  911.

Question:  Knowing that Saddam used WMD repeatedly in the past.  And knowing how cranky and unpredictable and anti-USA Saddam was, would you have trusted Saddam to never ever ever give WMD to terrorists for use in the US?"

Somebody hasn't been listening to the news or reading government reports.  Our invasion of Iraq had nothing whatsoever to do with 9/11, the intelligence used to make the case for Saddam having an active WMD program was "inappropriately manipulated" by Douglas Feith and the events of 9/11 were used as a "Pearl Harbor-like event" to prosecute a war that had been discussed and planned for years prior to Mr. Bush being elected and to 9/11.

The same reasons for not taking out Saddam that existed in 1994 existed in 2003.  Cheney stated them quite well.

junebug (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:56 PM)

The assumption that Cheney lied in 1994 and is calling it like he sees it now covers a broad spectrum for a pathological liar. Which I believe Cheney is, so if we give him enough rope maybe just maybe he'll hang himself.

Richard Hood Panamaq City Beach , Florida (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 4:56 PM)

Padre, you aren't listening to your President or to real news.  Iraq had nothing to do with 9/11.  The people who funded the attacks, who planned the attacks and who carried them out were SAUDI ARABIANS who belong to a specific radical Islamic sect called Wahhabi Sunni.  They HATED Saddam as much as he HATED them.  They considered him an infidel.   Over 50% of the small number of foreign fighters in Iraq are SAUDI ARABIANS.  

We haven't been attacked again because they haven't wanted to . . . they will attack again, if and when they want.  If you believe Mr. Bush and Mr. Cheney are responsible for us not being attacked since 9/11, then, conversely, you have to believe that Bill Clinton kept us safe after the first WTC attack in 1993 (3 weeks or so after he was inaugurated) until September 2001.  Are you willing to admit that?

junebug (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:00 PM)

When are people going to realize that we live in a capitalist society. Blah , blah blah democrates and republicans. Its all about money and greed !!

Dee, Chicago IL. (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:03 PM)



SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

Your name, city and state (John Doe, Seattle, Wash.): 

 Your e-mail address (jdoe@msnbc.com):

Your website (it's okay if you don't have one):

Remember me? (We'll keep it private)

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=318212