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What a Difference a Decade makes

Posted: Wednesday, August 15, 2007 1:39 PM by Countdown
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On a different note - even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Sue, West Allis, Wisconsin (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:07 PM)

Padre- since 9/11 we have invaded a muslim nation, stomped on the civil liberties of our people and let Osama bin Laden live unmolested in Pakistan. We haven't become "Soft". We have given terrorist what they want.  Being hard on them would involve capturing and prosecuting them for the thugs they are and stop pretending they are some sort of supernatural evil that has the power to end civilization as we know it.  

jen,il (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:08 PM)

Shamful, tragic. Embarrassing. In China, a man commits suicide because of children's toys are loaded with toxic paint and magnets. At the very least Bush and Cheney should resign, and be impeached, both.

Pete Elliot, West Hills, CA. (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:08 PM)

This should prove once and for all that this was not a mistake, or oversight on the part of the Bush administration. They simply did not care about the American's, whose lives would be sacrificed in the name of corporate profit. This was not a mistaken war. This was Treason!!!!!

Tellis, Chicago, IL (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:08 PM)

Bill Clinton had Osama bin laden in his sites (on video) and he and his advisor Berger (who had intelligence papers in his trousers) decided not to take him out. Had he done this 9/11 probably would not have happened...Osama is a Saudi.

I believe if we all would lower our political voices and support our current leaders, we will be safer and hopefully we will elect both a Congress and new President who will be very strong on national defense? Take care

Padre (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:08 PM)

Cat scottsdale- It is time to end the electoral collage.  If there had been no electoral college in 2000 and the president had beed chosen by who got the most votes we would now be in the second successful term of President Gore.

jen,il (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:12 PM)

Dee,  Capitalism and democracy are not ncessarily enemies.  In fact, I do not believe capitalism can long exist except in the presence of a democracy.  That many capitalists seem unable to appreciate this only says that many capitalists are terribly short-sighted.  For my nickle, democracy comes first.  Free markets and entrepreneurship will surely follow.  Just now, America seems to have it backwards.

Mike, Quanah, TX (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:13 PM)

When I'm waiting for Santa, a year seems long but ten years in a row is not that much. Chaney is stupid and changes his mind a lot. I think bombing the World Trade Center was a bad idea, don't you?

Ray Smith Lihue. Hi. (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:16 PM)

Well, after these idiots are out of power, hopefully the new administration will have the balls to prosecute both of them and lock them up and throw away the keys. These are the worst kinds of criminals. They're above the law.

Ron Paul is the only guy that can give us our country back.

NeoLibCon, Bozeman, MT (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:17 PM)

Well, after these idiots are out of power, hopefully the new administration will have the fortitude to prosecute both of them and lock them up and throw away the keys. These are the worst kinds of criminals. They're above the law.

Ron Paul is the only guy that can give us our country back.

NeoLibCon, Bozeman, MT (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:23 PM)

Can't people change their minds, every liberal that voted for the war did

Larry Charleston (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:24 PM)

'Bill Clinton had Osama bin laden in his sites (on video) and he and his advisor Berger (who had intelligence papers in his trousers) decided not to take him out. Had he done this 9/11 probably would not have happened...Osama is a Saudi.

I believe if we all would lower our political voices and support our current leaders, we will be safer and hopefully we will elect both a Congress and new President who will be very strong on national defense? Take care"

Somebody has been listening to way too much propaganda . . . the things you stated above about Bill Clinton had nothing to do with 9/11 and had NOTHING to do with Iraq.  Iraq never had a thing to do with Islamic terrorism, WMDs or anything else this White House has spewed.  It was a pre-planned, experimental war to test a theory by a bunch of self-described "intellectuals," the majority of whom were in the first Bush cabinet:  Wolfowitz, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Perle, Feith, Bolton, Frum (coined the phrase, "Axis of Evil" at least a year prior to 9/11) . . . many more.  

I'm all for unity, but supporting the illicit activities of this administration will not bring unity, it will bring further destruction of our way of life which was the stated goal of the terrorists who attacked us on 9/11.  It's not our freedoms they hate and it's not the American people, it is the policies of our government.

junebug (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:31 PM)

Let's add a bit of sanity to this conversation.  At face value this does look like a flip flop but situations change and the same people who want to castigate Cheney have most certainly flip flopped on their positions on issues in the past when situations changed.

The big change in this case was 911, a recognition (possibly for the first time) that terrorists can do damage to this country, and a concern about the development of WMDs in Iraq.  Everyone now recognizes that we didn't find any WMDs - but the reality is that the reason we didn't know that was due to the dismantling off our intelligence capability years before when Democrats decided that the world was such a nice place that we didn't need to have "spys" working for us.  As a result our intelligence gathering was severely diminished and now, even though we are working to rebuild it, it will take years to do.

There were a lot of politicians in America and other countries who fully believed Iraq had WMD capability.  Unfortunately, instead of recognizing that so we can correct a dangerous and severe weakness in our defense capability, any politician who opposes Bush has decided that discretion is not the better part of valor.  They lie about what they knew, what they believed after 911 and go hide like the rats they are so they can avoid any responsibility and win their next election.

Our government would be far better off with fewer cowards and more honest politicians who have important goals other than to win the next term.  If our forefathers saw what is going on now they would be rolling over in their graves.

Our government, particularly the legislative branch, has become a giant "Gong Show".

Craig, Port St. Lucie, Florida (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:31 PM)

Rather than debate about the hypocracy of Cheney's comments, look at what he realized years ago about Iraq and failed to address in the planning for the war. Dispite the "changed circumstances" of 9/11, this tape suggests that the failure to plan for the aftermath of the invasion of Iraq was either intentional or the grossest display of incompetence in the history of the United States. It shows Cheney knew what the results of the invasion would be, but failed (refused?) to plan for them. This tape is the smoking gun to an indictment of this administration's mismanagement of the Iraq war. The parents, relatives and friends of every soldier wounded or killed in Iraq ought to be outraged.    

Paul Coval (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:32 PM)

I remember something about Sadaam having plans to start demanding payment for oil in Euro s' and no longer accepting dollars.Could this have been a(the)reason to convince dubya he had to go?After all,"WE" did overthrow the Iranian Monarch in "53" for trying to nationalize their oil.Present day Iran has plans to demand Euro s' for oil.Hmmmmmm very interesting in light of all the saber rattling towards them.

Rick,Albuquerque,N.M. (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:46 PM)

Dee, right. A corporate fascist 'venture capitalist' system.

Steve (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:49 PM)

WAKE UP!!!! The New Order Order is unfolding right in front of you. Bush Sr. gave a speech about the new world order on SEPT 11, 1990!!!! The same people advising Bush Sr. are the ones in office right now. Our presidents change, but the advisors like Cheney are still in control. The elephants and donkeys are working together to scare us and take our liberties! Hitler did this in the past by burning down the german parliment and blaming it on others! PLEASE RESEARCH ON YOUR OWN!!

For FREEDOM (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:53 PM)

I'm going to guess that what happened to make the change in Cheney's attitude was an offer from his "former" company to cut him in for some points of their war profits if we invaded and they were made the no-bid major supplier of goods and services to our troops. And let us not forget the big block of cash- what, 8 billion was it? that just disappeared. Gee...where did it go? That is enough cash to subvert an entire government...and ours, not theirs.  

Dave Ebert cape coral, Florida (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:53 PM)

Everyone should Google "strategy of tension" read about italy.  Do you see any comparrison to what is going on here?

Dave, Sunnyvale, Ca (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 5:59 PM)

conversely, you have to believe that Bill Clinton kept us safe after the first WTC attack in 1993 (3 weeks or so after he was inaugurated) until September 2001.  Are you willing to admit that?

Weren't our embassies attacked?  What about the USS Cole?????

Kneejerk, Jacksonville, IL (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:00 PM)

All of this stuff was in a Frontline episode that has run repeatedly on PBS. My question is where was the media when Cheney and Co. were beating the drums for war? Oh thats right, writing puff pieces on Laura Bush. This stuff should have been front and center in the war debate BEFORE we went to war.

Marc, Chico, CA (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:02 PM)

Save that tape and use it at his trial at the Hague.  

R. Mantano, Largo, Florida (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:09 PM)

Padre: While we've spent half a trillion dollars in Iraq to "keep the terrorists from hitting us here," people are dying from crime that we don't have the dollars to hire police to fight, bridges collapsing that we don't have the dollars to repair and retrofit, and from failed levees that we didn't have the dollars to strengthen.

Our homes, shopping malls, restaurants, and bridges may not feel safe...but I don't think it's primarily because of al Qaida. If you do...I feel for you. But I don't agree with you.

Loren, SF Bay Area, CA (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:13 PM)

These folks are criminals.  We should be ashamed of them.  They should be impeached and imprisoned.  They have done so much damage to our country it is shocking.  I cannot believe that 1/3 of the country still supports them.  

Ken Watts, O Fallon, MO (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:18 PM)

really important for you to show. thank you. saw it last week on the blogs. MSM is a step behind the MSB's

Thanks again because Cheney is in on it. big time.

mike (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:30 PM)

Could earning millions more Halliburton dollars have anything to do with Cheney's change of view in an extended war in Iraq? You know, the non-bidding Halliburton that has ripped our government off for millions in $80,000 "throw-away filterless tanker trucks, over-charging everything in the way of services to include undelivered meals. Same Halliburton that just moved to Dubar to avoid U.S. taxes. Cheney worked for them before he worked for us!

Bob Minnoch, Ashtabula, Ohio (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:33 PM)

It makes me feel ill to watch that.  Seriously, really sick.

Kobe Berg (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:48 PM)

Please forward this to every and anyone you know.  The democrates are affraid to make a stand against these idiots (complaining about the "dictator" then voting to allow his criminal tactics to continue) than we, the people, have to get the message out..

Sean (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:51 PM)

Bob Minnoch, I believe Halliburton is relocating to Dubai in order to escape prosecution as much as to avoid taxes. This sorry government has to end & I doubt that there will be another like it in my lifetime.
Never before have so many money-grubbing companies & their susidiaries been give free-rein.

Nanalinda, San Antonio, TX (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:52 PM)

lots of complaining, lots of finger-pointing, lots of bipartisan bickering...not much substance, not much creative problem solving

but hey, the slogans fit on a bumper sticker, the answers probably won't

heath, dallas, tx (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:53 PM)

It's simply another example of the hypocracy that exists in the very core of this man.

Steven Warcholak, Staten Island , New York (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:53 PM)

The mere mention of the words campaign advertisement make me want to hurl. The use of the word "advertisement" is absolutely correct. Politics is purely business and nothing more. Either party is capable of equal moral and ethical atrocities. The people are the real losers. Dick Cheney is nothing more than a cog in the political machine. Putting either one of the “status quo” parties in power will always have the same result. Demand change.

Craig Lynes, Dallas, Texas (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:55 PM)

Yes, we were attacked, and yes, it was horrible. BUT, does it give us the right to storm all around the world causing havoc? World opinion DOES matter, and the World Court will judge our reckless leaders.
The corporation-owned media cannot brainwash the whole world.

Oma, Phoenix, AZ (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:57 PM)

IF you are still believing 91 was a terrorist attack...or that Iraq is related...take look.

www.zeitgeistmovie.com

You will NEVER look at it the same way ever again.

Mark, Anna, Tx (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 6:58 PM)

Yes, Cheney is a pure liar!!!! Rumsfeld and Cheney = pure evil.... Also Iraq has nothing to do with 9\11 .
9\11 made alot of money for a few people. Remember Casino Royal. What did the villian know.

ciabill (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:01 PM)

Put a tail on Dick Cheney and we can see what hell on earth really looks like.

Keith Glen Allen V A (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:06 PM)

I guess Cheney was not going to get paid when he said this, but when him and Bush and a chance to get money.......things change.. he is a trader to our country, soldiers and what America stands for.

Christian, Lexington KY (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:13 PM)

With Rove leaving, red flags should go up.
All this in the wake of Italia-Iraqi scandal.
Also looks like more double talk about Iran.
http://www.squidoo.com/double_speak/

lou,englewood,fl (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:40 PM)

A society that gives up Liberty for security, deserves neither.(Ben Franklin)
http://www.squidoo.com/double_speak/

lou,englewood,fl (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:42 PM)

Most intelligent thing I have ever heard come out of VP's mouth on US Foriegn policy. Too bad his opinion was 10 years too early.

St.Louis, MO (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 7:50 PM)

I can't prove whether going to war in Iraq has or has not kept terrorists from attacking America again -- but it sure as Hell resulted in an exonential increase in the number of them who want to do so! And no doubt will. Thanks W and Dick!

Jack Humphrey (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 8:13 PM)

What did anyone expect?  Part of the contract that all Neocons signed with Satan in return for power mandates that they maintain a flagrant disregard for the truth...any truth.  What I really want to know is what they're going to do now that Satan has resigned to spend more time with his family?

M. Mallory, Glendale, California (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 8:14 PM)

It seems like Jr. is finlly listening to his real daddy. Unfortunately 5 years too late. So the last neo-con standing in the administration (Cheney) is being shown the door. i take that back, he's not really a neo-con, just a crook.The new WH spin is about the great relationship between 41 and 43. Jr's place in history will be right next to Nero.

The Truth, New Jersey (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 8:18 PM)

Why wasn't this clip brought out in 2003 when it could have done some good?  Or would MSNBC have been called unpatriotic for showing the truth!

Derek, Centerburg Ohio (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 8:28 PM)

The thought of elections next year is refreshing.  To think that we just MIGHT have someone in power that isn't a complete jackass gives me some ounce of hope for the future of this country.  

Cory, Phoenix, AZ (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 8:48 PM)

Things are never as clear they appear.  Cheney could have been mouthing "George the 1st's" talking points and not beleived what he was saying or he could have considered the post 9/11 danger great enough to warrant the risk of messing up IRAQ. But in a way this actually made me feel better.  I'm against the war and not a Bush supporter, but at least Cheney knew the issues and then made decisions on that. The way things have gone, I thought Cheney was completely ignorant of the situation in the region (as I truly believe Bush was).  This actually makes Cheney more responsible for the result.  It also means the administration didn't let us know of the possible ramifications before WE went in.

mark, san diego, CALIF (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 8:50 PM)

Impeach President Cheney, er, I mean Bush!

Knoxville, TN (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 8:55 PM)

For those of you who expressed negativity regarding Cheney's stance, realize that a great deal has changed between then and now.

Among these are revelation (after the 1991 war) of how far Hussein's weapons programs had progressed (especially his nuclear program), the support Hussein began providing for terrorist activities, the massacres of many of the Iraqi people when they revolted, the numerous UN resolutions which had been passed, the obstructionism Hussein was engaging in to efforts to disarm him, the constant firing on US aircraft by Hussein's forces, the creation of and subsequent breakdown of the oil-for-food program, and the sanctions placed on Hussein and his subversion of them not to mention his engagement in blackmarketing, bribery of various government officials and other influential personnel, and many other subvertive actions he engaged in.

Further changes occurred with the creation and rise of the Al'Quaeda terrorist organization, multiple attacks by that same organization against US interests, and the murder of 3,000 of our civilians - which forced this nation to open its eyes to the dangers throughout the world.

Other changes occurred on the political scene with the changes in leadership of several of our allies' nations, the shift in our own administration, and even changes in the organization and makeup of the United Nations. More fundamentally, changes in which nations would support the removal of Hussein also occurred, with nearly every nation in the world being opposed to it in 1991 while several decided to join us in 2003 in going after that man.

Those of you who pretend nothing changed are so disconnected from reality it isn't funny.

the Nightthief (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 8:59 PM)

Does this mean Cheney was right BEFORE he was wrong??

Pam Bignardi (for John Kerry), San Pedro, California (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 9:19 PM)

Junebug, you could talk to a neocon until you are blue in the face, but it would do no good. Truth has a "liberal" bias with these ignorant sheep who get their news and daily instruction from Sean Hannity and Rush Limbaugh instead of thinking for themselves.

diane (Sent Wednesday, August 15, 2007 9:23 PM)



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