Outlook Not So Good

Posted: Thursday, August 23, 2007 10:20 AM by Countdown

The Maliki plot thickens. The New York Times has learned the White House is getting ready to release parts of a new intelligence report today titled "Prospects for Iraq Stability" that will say it's unlikely the Iraqi prime minister will ever be able to unite sectarian factions and meet political benchmarks that have been set. So all the extra American troops are buying him time to do what exactly...? We've put all eggs in Maliki's basket because...?

EMAIL THIS

Comments

I wish we could help the Iraqi's. Afterall, we did invade them. But for the life of me, I don't remember President Bush, Vice President Cheney, Condi Rice, Donald Rumsfeld, Colin Powell, George Tenent or Fox Propaganda telling me that the reason we were invading Iraq was because we wanted to give them a democracy. I could be wrong.

Didn't we invade them because we thought they had WMD's? Didn't we invade them because we thought they would have nuclear weapons soon? Did not President Bush and Condi Rice talk of a mushroom cloud?

Like I said, I would be wrong. But I can't help but thinking. How do you give a country a democracy by bombing and killing hundreds of thousands of their civilians?

How do you give a country a democracy when we ourselves don't have one. Didn't Ted Kennedy stand up in Congress and say there was no proof that Iraq had WMD's? Yes he did. So did others.

But they were considered unpatriotic and unAmerican for disagreeing with the officials in this Administration. And no one listened. And thousands are dead.

You call us a democracy? I don't think this Administration or their supporters even know what the word "democracy" means anymore.

Pat, Boston, MA (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 10:56 AM)

You gotta love this double-triple-quadruple talking administration. According to GW yesterday, Maliki is "a good guy doing a tough job," but it sounds like GW's got no qualms about throwing him under the proverbial bus.

If I changed directions as often as GW seems to do lately, my brain would burst.

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 11:02 AM)

We've put all eggs in Maliki's basket because...?
we like omelets?

This administration has no clue.

Carol, Long Valley NJ (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 11:05 AM)

This Administration is completely incompetent, so how are they supposed to recognize that the Maliki gov't is incompetent?

If any of you caught The Daily Show last night, Jon Stewart hit the nail on the head. I always heard that the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different outcome. Case in point (from the Daily Show):

We gave weapons to Osama to fight the Russians, which gave him more power, which he used against us.

We gave weapons to Saddam to fight against Iran, which gave him more power when invading Kuwait, and of course we had to go in and help get him out.

We are now giving weapons to Saudi Arabia, where 80% of the hijackers on 9/11 came from. Anyone recognize a pattern here? Aren't we supposed to learn from the mistakes of the past????

Another point Jon Stewart that you would think that we would be using that money in OUR country to perhaps help victims of hurricanes, help rebuild and refurbish aging bridges and roads, help those without healthcare, returning wounded vets... and on and on.

In the dictionary right next to the definition of "Incompetence" (along with Stupidity, inept, souless...) there is a picture of GWB and his administration...and anyone on this blog that still supports him.

LA, Seattle (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 11:18 AM)

Maybe had Mr. Bush actually fought in Vietnam instead of using his daddy's name to let kids with less money go and fight, he would have a different outlook. “We stand with the Iraqis at this difficult hour.” That sums it up. Now he is trying to make the Republicans seems as though they care about the lives they are affecting, implicitly accusing liberals and democrats of not caring for the Iraqi people. This article was answered by another article in the nytimes. http://www.nytimes.com/2007/08/23/washington/23history.html The revisionist history demonstrated by this administration is appalling and strikingly Orwelian. He is right about one comparison between the Iraq war and Vietnam; both were predicated on lies and propoganda to support corporate interests. Fear Communists!!! and now Fear Terrorists!!! I wonder what we will be told to fear 30 years from now?

Brett, NY (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 11:27 AM)

Because I looked him in the eye and saw that he was a good man, just like Putin. Also Chertoff had a gut feeling and Rummy shook his hand and it was firm. Condi did shopping with his wife. Best of all Rover said it fit into his long range plans whatever they are. Also I might have thought about it some but I don't remember. Who reads reports anyway.

dubya (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 11:29 AM)

We put all the eggs in Malikis basket because in chaos they can steal. I am beyond believing that this administration doesn't know what it's doing. They see success as perpetual war, that way everyone they know gets stinking rich and they don't really care about anyone else.

jen,il (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 11:46 AM)

The actual report says, "The Iraqi government will become more precarious over the next six to 12 months and its security forces have not improved enough to operate without outside help, intelligence analysts conclude in a new National Intelligence Estimate released Friday."

So it seems the NIE suggests Iraqi security forces need support in order to keep the radical elements at bay and Al Qaeda from resurging. This seems to suggest that American withdrawl would only make matters worse.

Ken, SC (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 11:47 AM)

Well, Krista, perhaps "If I changed directions as often as GW seems to do lately, my brain would burst" may explain a few things about president twig.

dw, hershey, pa (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 11:57 AM)

Larry Charleston, SC (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 12:14 PM)

Must be bad if the White House is copping to the fact that it ain't gonna' work with this guy.

Or, they're setting us up for the idea of a fragmented Iraq... Will there be an East and West Baghdad, like they did in the Cold War?

And how will the water-carriers spin this? After all, they've been preaching for weeks that the surge is working and even Hillary agrees with them on that.

So, we'll stop the insurgent attacks just in time for GW to give half of the country to Al Sadr and his Iranian-packed Mekdi army.

Enough of the flag-waving and preaching. Time to go. If we're serious about fighting terrorism, then we don't send EVERYBODY. You send in Special Ops. Blow crap up, cap the guys in the hoods... then you leave.
We should not be in regime-building biz.

WJ

Walter J. Murdock, Cincinnati OH (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 12:25 PM)

There's a very simple answer to this question. Even ole GW can understand this one himself (without the aid of Rove).

George W. Bush is a complete and total idiot. He has no common sense, and entirely too large of an ego to do the job he is doing, in a manner acceptable to a box full of lab rats.

Period. End of statement.

Don Juan, Official home of Comedian Rush Limbaugh (unfortunately), Missouri (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 12:44 PM)

It appears Al-BOO-BOO Al-Maliki is in search of a new best friend. Well thank God; as perhaps HE can send our "FRIENDS" and loved ones - our American troops, home!!

Al-Maliki: "No one has the right to place timetables
on the Iraq government. It was elected by its people." Those who make such statements are bothered by our visit to Syria. We will pay no attention. We care for our people and our constitution and can find friends elsewhere." (We can at least credit the incompetent Al-BOO-BOO for recognizing HIS Constitution)!!

Apparently he received an advance copy of the "Prospects for Iraq Stability", which states that "Iraqi political leaders remain unable to govern effectively".

Al-BOO-BOO Bush stated yesterday, "Prime Minister Maliki's a good guy, a good man with a difficult job and I support him.

Now, here’s the biggy; and quite possibly the long-awaited answer to my prayers; our troops finally getting out of that hell hole in Iraq. Al-boo-boo Bush also stated yesterday, "and it's not up to the politicians in Washington, DC to say whether he will remain in his position. It is up to the Iraqi people who now live in a democracy and not a dictatorship."

Great, George W. Bush agrees with Al-Maliki!! Let Al-Maliki’s pursuit begin; I wish him a speedy success in finding his new "BEST FRIEND"!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 12:46 PM)

Tell you what. Let's swap Leaders. Let Al run the USA until the end of 2008, and let Dubya run Iraq till...well, till he get's it the way he wants it. Of course, it would be nice if he could do it without our Troops. He could just use his not-so-little Blackwater Army.

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 12:47 PM)

The outlook is not so good for this blog if people's comments are not posted. Nothing of mine made it yesterday and I know others are having problems too.

Again, if comments are not posted, an email (you ask us to submit it) is in order to the poster. Keep flooding Countdown with emails - you can't have a decent conversation if there aren't frequent updates and you can't have a conversation at all if your comments aren't posted.

Sue, really clueless, West Allis, Wisconsin (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:02 PM)

The US is not going anywhere anytime soon when it comes to Iraq.... Here's the scenario that will allow solders to come home...Iraq as a nation that can defend its oil, Iran no longer threatens the use of nuclear attacks or the threat has been resolved militarily. Bin Laden has been killed or incarcerated. Hamas, Islamic Jihad, Al Qaida and other Islamic groups stop the bombing and killing. Signs of the tiering of war and peace starts to spread in the middle-east. History tells us this probably will not happen. When bullets and bombs stop flying at US soldier's the war will be over at that very moment.

Average American Anytown USA (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:06 PM)

No, I think they're doing exactly what they want to do. Have troops on the ground to seize the Iraqi oilfields when the Maliki government collapses/is assasinated/falls apart. They know that whatever progress that's being made will not change the hearts and minds of anyone in this country. The neo-cons will stay with him and the majority of the country will disagree with him whatever the Pratreus report says next month.
To all of the people who contribute your ideas and thoughts on this blog, I have to thank you for your passion and intelligence, and whether I agree with the thoughts of any of you or not, at least the exchange of ideas is, I think something healthy. We should be allowed to agree to disagree without the name calling, though.

Frederick Sweeney, Brooklyn (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:22 PM)

"What,me worry?", says W.

Provenance (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:29 PM)

may we please have an update?

Thank you (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:31 PM)

all posts included today, please?

Thank You (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:32 PM)

Caption for the above picture;

"Maliki, you're doing a heck of a job"

Ted from Margaritaville (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:40 PM)

It makes one wonder if this is simply a ploy to get the Iraqi government to tell the U.S. to remove our military forces by a certain date, effectively giving Bush the excuse he needs to remove our forces.

Fred, Iowa City, IA (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:46 PM)

As the comic character Pogo said, "I have met the enemy and he is us!"

Marsha Scottsdale, AZ (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:46 PM)

Thank You -- I find that short stupid comments have a much higher chance of getting posted. My long thoughtful ones don't seem to make as often which is a pain since they took a lot of time to write.

nuanced (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:05 PM)

Larry,
So only the people who agree with your views are allowed to defame the politicians you don't like? But the people who disagree with you are "liberals"? Is that how it works? So if we never get to disagree with our government and what it's doing that would make us what, an Orwellian society? How 1984.

Frederick Sweeney, Brooklyn (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:11 PM)

Point well-made, DW (11:57 am post) - if there was a brain there to burst to begin with. THANK YOU!

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:23 PM)

Just look at their faces.

Deferrment Dick, D.C. (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:29 PM)

Pat, Boston, MA (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 10:56 AM)

Them telling us that we were there to give them a democracy was on of the last lies Bush told to the reason of us not being there when all his other lies were not working anymore.. but he did say that....

Brenda Deltona FL (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:34 PM)

Pat from Boston - Great post.

Ted from Margaritaville (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:37 PM)

Since Bush said one thing one day and another on the next day, tells you that this person HAS NO IDEA WHAT THEY ARE DOING.. or he knows that he is spewing BS just to win those he's lost because of his incompitance!

Brenda Deltona FL (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:41 PM)

Gawd my last post is messed up looking at it.. let me try again...
Pat, Giving the Iraqis Democracy was one of the last lies Bush told the people here after all his other lies were found to be lies as to our reason for invading a sovereign country...

Brenda Deltona FL (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:45 PM)

Sue, re: your post of Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:02 PM. Umm, no offense, but you DO notice the paragraph headed "PLEASE READ" above the comment box, right? Perhaps they think you are sending too many comments and are making room for others to be heard. Again, I don't mean that to offend you, just putting that forward as a possible reason your posts haven't been showing up. (I've noticed you mentioning this on other topics.)

I have to say that I can't imagine MSNBC'd be thrilled with us for bombarding them with e-mails, either, or that they have the resources to send out an email every time a post doesn't appear. I'm pretty sure the reason this, or any other blog, asks for your email address is so that they can track down anyone who becomes threatening.

Peace!

K, NY (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:49 PM)

Cool , Hillary is calling for Maliki"s ouster because he is too divisive ? Let's see, I call for Pelosi, Reid , Waxman, Leahy , Chuckie Schumer, to be ousted because they are too divisive. You gotta love the liberals ! LOL
Larry Charleston, SC (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 12:14 PM)

Another ridiculous post from Scary in Charleston, SC! I guess people are divisive if they actually want on record what our government is doing, don't agree with what they are doing, and what to make sure the interests of the American people (whom they were elected by) are being looked after! How amazingly divisive. Let's see, Cheney forms the Energy Plan behind closed doors with the energy industry attending and the bill comes out in their favor; NO PROBLEM! Gonzo and the DOJ fire 8 US attorneys who have been pressured (in some cases illegally) to prosecute or move prosecution forward on Democrats prior to election, but he and the Administration will only answer questions off the records; NO PROBLEM! On and on this is the case and for some reason the American people and their Representatives/Senators want answers. God, doesn't democracy suck when you aren't in control of the Executive, Legislative, and Judicial (with Republicans in control of the Executive for many of the last elections, let's face it, they've pushed it right)! It was so much easier when the President did what he wanted, Congress bowed to his wishes, the Judicial looked the other way, and the talking heads (like yourself) denounced anyone who asked questions. Pathetic.

Clint Smith - Columbia, MO (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:59 PM)

Al Maliki is the problem of the Iraqi people. He is the product of a constitutionally elected government . . . it's up to the Iraqi people to determine what to do, not the US. He's right . . . we have NO right telling the Iraqi government what it can and cannot do. If we do, any credibility that the US has in the world community (not much, I know) is in the dumper.

junebug (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:10 PM)

One lesson from Vietnam. Without a stable government in place we can send troops in until hell freezes over and it will make no difference. What part of this doesn't Georgieboy understand? What part of this is beyond the comprehension of you 28%ers that post here? One reason Al Anbar province seems to be doing well is that WE MADE A DEAL with the locals. Our military presence in Al Anbar is PRACTICALLY NON EXISTANT! Hence the calm.

Bill Rochester NY (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:16 PM)

Countdown ought to know -- and does know -- that we're "putting all our eggs into Maliki's basket and buying time to serve the administration's interests, whatever they may be. There's no mystery about that. What we have never managed to find out is exactly what those interests are. Oil? Anti-Islamic fanaticism? Hegemony? Lunacy?

Bonnie (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:17 PM)

If al Maliki can't unite the Iraqis and stabilize the government, then how stupid is it for Bush to publicly show support and approval for him as prime minister? (Not, of course, that stupidity has ever stopped him from pursuing his agenda before.) W. might just as well wear a neon sign stating, "yes, I favor endless war and turmoil so that I can continue to exploit it." Plus I imagine that al Maliki is the neocon regime's most likely candidate to be Bushy's new lap dog.

K, NY (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:25 PM)

Clint Smith - Great Post. I would only add that it wasn't the "liberals" sticking their nose in the Terry Schiavo case, and it wasn't a liberal saying we'd be greeted with flowers, nor a liberal saying "you go to war with the Army you have" or "Mission Accomplished." And if it wasn't for a so-called "liberal" leaning newpaper reporting on Walter Reed, all of those soldiers that you right-wing conservatives are so happy to send into combat would never be receiving the care they so well deserve.

Jamie, Elmwood Park, IL (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:43 PM)

I don't know why we keep gasping, "Oh my god, I can't believe Bush is doing "X" while at the same time he is saying "Y"... This is what he does and he's got about 15 months to keep doing his damage. As long as we are only spending time blogging with lots of exclamation points and arguing over the politics, and are not out demonstrating en masse on the White House lawn, his front yard in Texas, or any place we can attract T.V. cameras, Congress isn't going to do a thing. The Democrats will inherit the increased Executive powers if they win in 2008. Civilized Countdowners, give up a day of enjoyable blogging and get yourselves and your friends and neighbors to a friendly political protest rally near you today! Countdown, I dare you to post this. I like Countdown talk the best, but it's still talk.

Wanda Swain Bland, Largo, Florida (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:59 PM)

oddly enough, i think the Iraqi govt. is controlling GW. They say they can find other friends than us and they are right, they have the oil. If GW doesn't play nice then they'll bring in Syria and GW and his Texas oil buddies wont have access to the cash. Iraq is calling the shots folks, GW is gonna end up dancing like a toy monkey keeping them happy, cuz they have the oil/money, and thats what he wants most.

d.o. KC MO (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 4:44 PM)

K NY - so you think I post too much? Okee dokee. I'll share elsewhere. Bye all.

Sue, West Allis, Wisconsin (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 4:58 PM)

K, NY (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 2:49 PM)

K NY - so you think I post too much? Okee dokee. I'll share elsewhere. Bye all.
Sue, West Allis, Wisconsin (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 4:58 PM)

I've all but begged Sue to continue posting here; she has been 1,000% correct about the moderating; the last three weeks 90% of most every “daily” blogger’s comments have NOT been posted. Are you "new" to blogging here? For if not, I cannot understand why you would make the irresponsible and blatantly wrong statement you did to Sue!! HECKUVA JOB K!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 5:13 PM)

Actually folks,Larry,Wayne,and Scott are computer viruses they have quarantined in the Hole so I mean our freinds at Countdown have got our back.The have contained the neo con outbreak.

B.A. Buddusky (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 5:53 PM)

Wouldn't uniting the sectarian factions in Iraq be like herding cats? Could any one besides a really strong dictatorship accomplish that? Oh wait, Iraq had one of those already and '43' didn't like dealing with him. His oil friends couldn't get Iraq's oil cheap enough.

Carol, Long Valley NJ (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 5:54 PM)

Carol, Long Valley NJ (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 5:54 PM)

Spot on Carol!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 6:56 PM)

I'm new here, but I have read enough of Sue's postings to know she is very good at what she does. I don't want to see you leave Sue. I for one enjoy your posts very much, and I wish I knew why they are not getting through and it isn't because "you post too much". Please reconsider and come back.

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 7:04 PM)

K (2:49 post), this forum has been made available to EVERYONE who cares about the "state of the world" today. You have the right to speak your mind, so do I, so do SC Larry and NV Scott, and so does Sue. Your post could be interpreted as trying to limit people's ability to express themselves. I don't think you meant to do that. Sue contributes very thoughtful well-thought-out posts, and she's very passionate about what she believes, and she, like most of us, gets frustrated. Remember, we come here (or should come here) for good dialogue. Thank you.

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 7:48 PM)

Carol, right on!

MK, Indianapolis (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 7:49 PM)

Fred, Iowa City, IA (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 1:46 PM)
Just as Bush changed his tune from one day to the next.. so does Milaki.. he did that when he said that the troops could leave in 6 months, he and Bushy Boy spoke then Milaki said that he needed us there.. they are playing games.. stupid childish games.. good thing alot of people are seeing this...

Brenda Deltona FL (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:04 PM)

Wanda Swain Bland, Largo, Florida (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 3:59 PM)
Are you going to the Demonstration in Washington DC on Sept. 15th??

Brenda Deltona FL (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 9:10 PM)

Next >>

SEND A COMMENT

PLEASE READ: All comments must be approved before appearing in the thread; time and space constraints prevent all comments from appearing. We will only approve comments that are directly related to the blog, use appropriate language and are not attacking the comments of others.

Message (please, no HTML tags. Web addresses will be hyperlinked):

Your name, city and state (John Doe, Seattle, Wash.):

Your e-mail address (jdoe@msnbc.com):

Your website (it's okay if you don't have one):

Remember me? (We'll keep it private) Remember me?

TRACKBACKS

Trackbacks are links to weblogs that reference this post. Like comments, trackbacks do not appear until approved by us. The trackback URL for this post is: http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/trackback.aspx?PostID=329744

More News Hole

Recent Posts:

Archives:

Categories:

The Essentials

Syndicate This Site

Add The News Hole to your news reader:

ABOUT THE NEWS HOLE