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A Picture's Worth 5 Days

Posted: Thursday, August 23, 2007 11:00 PM by Countdown

Why did this pic get a 13-year-old kid 5 days in the hole (i.e. suspended from school?). Find out after the jump.

Click on the link for video....

Student Suspended For Drawing Gun
5-Day Suspension Cut To 3 Days

POSTED: 3:06 pm PDT August 21, 2007

QUEEN CREEK, Ariz. -- A 13-year-old student who drew a picture of a gun on his homework at Payne Junior High School in Queen Creek was initially suspended for at least five days, but his father was able to slash it to three days.

The Mosteller family moved to Chandler from Colorado Springs only four weeks ago, but it's not the kind of greeting Paula Mosteller said she was expecting.

Her 13-year-old son was suspended from school because he drew a picture of a gun on homework.

"My son is a very good boy," Mosteller said.

"He doesn't get into trouble. There was nothing on the paper that would signify that it was a threat of any form," she said.

The principal at Payne Junior High School kept the actual drawing.

The picture was enough to get him suspended, initially, for five days.

"He was just basically doodling and not thinking a lot about it," Mosteller said.

CBS 5 News tried to get more details from the Chandler Unified School District but were told, "Federal privacy law forbids the school or district from discussing student discipline."

"We're not advocates for guns," Mosteller said.

 

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Comments

I read this book shortly after it was published -- I recommend it highly to everyone -- especially the school principal who thought that was a picture of a gun?  It looked like the 'roof people' rescued during Katrina to me.

The Death of Common Sense: How Law is Suffocating America by Philip K. Howard (Paperback - Mar 1, 1996)

The bottom line is -- You can't legislate morality, and can't legislate to prevent stupidity, it can't be done, you shouldn't even try.  Stupidity will figure out how to beat you every single time.  

Carol, Long Valley NJ (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 11:16 PM)

I assume the school has "No Gun Drawings" signs posted throughout the premises.  

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 11:24 PM)

I'm with you Carol. I didn't see a gun in the picture until I read the narrative.The teacher was either hyper-vigilant or paranoid.

Nanalinda, San Antonio, TX (Sent Thursday, August 23, 2007 11:53 PM)

Before I scrolled down and saw the comments, the first thing I thought was that it was a drawing of Katrina victims on the roof of a house with rescuers boat tied with a rope at the bottom. Reminds me of the joke about the psychiatrist and the ink blots all being sex related. It's in the mind of the beholder.

nuanced (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 12:11 AM)

In Florida he would have been required to draw a gun.

nuanced (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 12:13 AM)

Yeah, those "smiley faces" sure look ominous to me!!  

Carol - thanks for the recommendation; I think a book should be written for this principal, "The Audacity of Common Sense" perhaps??

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 12:18 AM)

Remember, boys and girls, drawings of guns don't kill doodled people. Drawings of people kill doodled people.

Niels, down on Bayou DeGradeabelle, Post-Katrina MS (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 12:23 AM)

"especially the school principal who thought that was a picture of a gun?  It looked like the 'roof people' rescued during Katrina to me.  
Carol, Long Valley NJ"
Something we can at least partially agree on. Its obviously not meant to be any sort of accurate representation of a pistol though it might have developed the trigger, and trigger guard like curves subconsciouly. Its looks a great deal more like a building.
As a rorsarch you see katrina, I see a school building with one student looking down on others coming in.
Depending on the kid it might be something a psychologist should look at.

Alternatively, that could also be a playground, or a parking lot.

I just don't see a gun there at all.

Wayne, TN (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 1:19 AM)

I thought it was people jumping out of a building to save themselves from something.  I told my husband to look at it, and he couldn't figure it out either.

Guns on paper (yeah, what a threat), and tasering a kindergartner-what the hell have we come to???????

Maybe if they look close enough, they can find some sort of hidden penis or breast and call it pornography.  Crikey.

Jamie, Chula Vista, CA (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 1:34 AM)

Geez, I used to doodle a lot, I'm glad I am no longer in school - what a mess!

It is certainly expedient to be safe, than sorry - but, really... Was the student then, going to draw up the plans to make such a gun?

Was he angry about moving to Arizona, and thinking about his deep-rooted feelings?  Or, was he simply in a kind of daze, bored as so many students are in school.  Was he actually considering any violent acts toward anyone?

Or, was this drawing actually meaningless to him?
Anyone consider that people have a tendency to either, 1) Not react appropriately to real signs of anger, rage, or hostility? Or, over react, 2) Does this really resemble a gun?  If so, why did he draw it?  If not, what is it?

To me, it does not resemble a gun... some imaginations working overtime, perhaps.

Ro, CA (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 2:20 AM)

It's a gun? With smilies and a little stick figure on the top? I swear, I thought it was an imperial star destroyer with smilies and a stick figure on top.

This school needs to look at its art program seriously.

Paul, in Jeddah Saudi Arabia (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 3:20 AM)

"You can't legislate morality, and can't legislate to prevent stupidity, it can't be done"

It would be nice though. There must be a way to protect our children from Principals and Teachers who inflict their no-think stupidity on them in this manner.

Reminds me of the incident back in 2002 where a grade-schooler was suspended for drawing a picture of a soldier carrying a weapon. He'd drawn a picture of one of his personal heroes, his uncle, serving in the Army. I think he got 2 weeks. Evidently you serve more time if you draw the weapon on "Assault Paper".

Perhaps we should write out a special procedure Principals can use to determine whether or not drawings of guns are loaded. Then kids could get back to real education... like playing hangman.

Fred Coleman, Riverside, Ca. (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 6:48 AM)

Doesn't even look like a gun to me. The nanny statists need to get the hell over themselves.

Amanda, NYC (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 7:14 AM)

Well here we go the Neo Con School,give me Liberty,show me Democracy,teach me all about the Constitution of the United States as One By you and Bozo Gonzo take my Bill of Rights Away and send me to your war.Can you say 1st Amendment Class Room and your right to freedom of expression and art.This dosen't even really look like a gun.I don't mean to hurt the kids feelings,but if it was a picture of the invasion of Iraq with American Troops and planes and missiles and shock and awe,all would be well Goldwater's Neo Con State.
Personally I think the picture of Dubya should not be allowed except in the post office ,along with Cheney,Rover,Wolferwitzer,Condi Grits and the mug shots of that whole cast of criminals.
We got a guy here in Sac that it will be national news soon too folks who is a "Generals Aid " that had a satirical web site something like a skit on SNL.
Yep in the 59th second of the final hour of our Constitutional Freedoms there will be more to come.And subtract your freedom one by one out of fear dear.
Now kid,all you kids,who believe in the Truth,a sure sign your telling it is when you smell the tar a burning and the chickens screaming from their feathers
being plucked.Let that be your cure to hit the exit and your amongst fearful people and probably liars.
Actually Kid Just a Picture of a Horse's Ass and Label it The Attorney General of the United States.He's the
guy we pay to protect your rights under Our and Your Constitution.Posing him as a horses ass poses no problem trust me.There are plenty of ACLU Lawyers out there ready for some Pro Bono all over this CACA.
Keep drawing:)~~~

B.A. Buddusky (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 7:22 AM)

Ummm that doesn't quite look like a gun to me.. but to each his own I guess... looks like a box with windows, possibly hangman.. like we all haven't played that before.. and smiley faces... something I use to do in school too.. did the child say it was a gun??? Dag I doodle with stars all the time.. I am sure if someone wanted to take that with the way I put them on the paper could make someone say it was a gun... I want to know if the child said it was a gun....

Brenda Deltona FL (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 7:51 AM)

wwll, we are so ramped up on fear, security, fear of terr'ists, that we jump on any little thing that falls within a specific purview. sieg heil!

barbinalbany ny (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 9:21 AM)

I can't even really see a gun in that drawing.  I guess it could be a handle and a barrel, but most people with guns don't draw smiley faces and people walking on the top of them.  Maybe it's just me.

But more importantly, this country has worked so hard to insulate children from anything that could possibly be harmful.  Are the hallways padded?  Can they still scrape their knees on the playground without getting counseling?  Are all scissors dulled so they can no longer cut?

How are children ever supposed to learn how to exist in the real world if they are not exposed to some danger, including guns?  I'm not saying give kids guns, and yes, if you see them have violent tendencies then maybe some counseling, but for simply doodling a gun they can get suspended?  Did this child have a history of violence at his previous school?  How much trouble could he have caused in the first 13 days to get suspended?

Stop wasting time coddling children and spend more time educating them (not about Intelligent Design, but math, science, public service, etc)!

Clint - Columbia, MO (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 9:50 AM)

Is it safe to assume this is the result of highly publicized school shootings?  Rather than throw the kid out for five days, wouldn't it be better to talk to him and find out if there is a threat or a problem?  If he were planning something (and that's a pretty big leap), how would sending him home to brood for five days help anybody?

Mike J, Appleton WI (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 10:08 AM)

I'm not surprised. This is the type of parania that our government has helped create. Be affraid of Iraq, be affraid of voting democratic, be affraid of terrorism but go about your lives in a normal fassion. Paranoia rules supreme. Even Guilliani got into the act when he said that republicans can better protect Americans than democrats. We ban the drawing of guns but do nothing about controoling their sales. We are getting dumber by the day.

Mark, Fleetwood, PA (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 10:30 AM)

I thought it was a building.

buttercup, pittsburgh PA (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 10:35 AM)

When I was a kid growing up in the Fifties, I drew landings at Omaha Beach, complete with landing crafts, German pillboxes, and GI's all over the place, and yes, they all had guns. I knew that George Washington and all those other guys with their pictures on the money, had written in the Constitution that we had the right to bear arms and that prety much meant guns.  If I got kicked out of school for every gun I drew, I'd have a first grade (maybe) education. Of course, you have to put it in context. I never drew a picture of me rubbing out Mrs.Whitney, just Hitler.

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 10:48 AM)

Are we that frightened of a society that something that possibly resembles a gun with smiley faces on it is a threat?  Its just funny; gun maker makes and sells gun, earns millions of dollars, 13 year old boy draws a picture of a pseudo-gun, gets suspended.  We always hear from the right wing that the media, rap, and television are the reasons why kids bring guns to school.  Maybe, just maybe, kids see how the most powerful people in the country resolve problems and copy THEM!  Hopefully this actually gets posted this time.

Brett, NY (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 10:51 AM)

I can't believe it, but I'm going to have to agree with you guys on this one. I don't see a gun either.
I see Katrina victims leaving their house, with John Edwards handing them their eviction notice.

You know, these educators are carrying thses things too far. I say we boycott the $ from the teachers unions until they come to their senses. A plea to all liberals, RETURN ALL DONATIONS FROM THE TEACHERS UNION UNTIL FURTHER NOTICE. We can't let them do this to our children !

Larry Charleston, SC (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 11:11 AM)

Niels, good one, you're a pistol!

Frederick Sweeney, Brooklyn (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 11:11 AM)

Here we are again because we continue to refuse to confront the problem of guns, not to mention the problem of troubled children.  The saddest part of this to me is the "head-in-the-sand" response of the child's mother.  Columbine.  Virginia Tech.  Revisited.  Don't punish my child because he's a "good kid."  How was I supposed to know my "good kid" was dreaming of killing people?  And had a cache of weapons in the basement, or the dorm room.  And was purchasing assault weapons on his credit card.  And was always playing violent video games that I bought for him.  And was wearing dark clothing, listening to dark music, and thinking dark thoughts.  After all, I was busy working, buying, and consuming.  The school should have done something about this.  Why didn't the police act more quickly?  Why didn't someone else parent my child for me?  I'm so sorry.  Really.

Bonnie (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 11:13 AM)

Bret, by the most powerful people in the country are you talking about the rappers killing each other ? Or are you talking about Sen Webb of Va and his guns . Please clarify

James, Richmond (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 11:14 AM)

Steve Turner , first grade education... explains alot  !

Larry Charleston, SC (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 11:15 AM)

Gee, I used to draw pictures of B-17s and B-29s.  Got pretty good at it and I used to enjoy those three view black profiles ID sheets of various aircraft.  I should have been expelled, don't you think?  OH, I get it; I was patriotic because my planes were attacking the enemy.  Now, if I were to draw something that "resembles" a weapon, Yikes, I would be in deep do-do.  Bet if the kid drew a picture of a naked woman, he would only get some detention.  

It seems we are beginning to see everyone as a threat.  How sad.  Just musing folks and thank you all for your patience.

J. O'Connor, Las Cruces, New Mexico (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 11:18 AM)

P.S.  I bet if the child drew a picture of a GI shooting a turban covered middle easterner, he would get a citizenship award.  Pardon my cynicism/



J. O'Connor, Las Cruces, New Mexico (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 11:24 AM)

The drawing I saw on the news looked different then this one.  It didn't have happy faces, stick people and the barrel of the gun was much shorter.  I wonder why? In any case, this doesn't seem sinister to me at all, just a doodle by a kid who started out maybe drawing something else and ended up being a gun.  Big deal.

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 11:32 AM)

What nonsense--the kid will get over it-the principal should and we all ought to do the kid a favor and get back to the really important things--like whether we should import cooked chicken from China---Brother!!!!

Alec Clement (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 11:35 AM)

James,
I think it was clear that I was referring to our administration and their quick and ready solutions of sending soldiers to war.  Kids see how adults resolve problems and copy them.  Until we as a society seek resolution through diplomacy first and foremost before considering armed conflict, don't be shocked when students solve their problems with violence.  Nevertheless, right or left wing, we can all agree suspending that student is quite ridiculous.

Brett, NY (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 11:37 AM)

Would it have been okay if it had been registered?  Or if he had drawn a trigger lock?  If we start suspending 13 year old boys for drawing guns, class sizes will be cut in half.  Maybe it's the republican plan to "fix" public education so they don't have to pay for it;)  

jen,il (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 11:42 AM)

Larry Charleston. 11:15 post. Don't start a war of words with Steve, even though I think he's too classy to "fire" at an unarmed man.

Nanalinda, San Antonio, TX (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 11:43 AM)

America is Skitzo! Film is the top American art form, and most PG-13 films include violence, usually with guns. Gun carrying soldiers are touted as heroes by our institutions. How dare a teenager emulate his culture!

For a comical look at America's gun obsession, check out the films at http://ColonelCrush.com

Jon Fair, Camas, WA (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 12:30 PM)

Larry. A first grade education in Iowa, is worth a Doctorate in South Carolina, or so I've heard.

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 12:31 PM)

Sorry Nana, I couldn't resist.

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 12:32 PM)

"w" is not the smartest man in the room -- even when he's alone with "Barney".  

Carol, Long Valley NJ (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 12:55 PM)

Well, in all fairness, this picture does deviate sharply from the pictures of genitalia 13-year-old boys usually doodle, which is what's really shocking to me about all this

Amy C., NC (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 1:00 PM)

"click on the link for video" -- what link? I clicked everything in sight and nothing happened.

nuanced (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 1:28 PM)

Steve Turner. OK if you must. I'll read & laugh at every one you post.Even Cheney could hit a sitting duck. Er, maybe not.

Nanalinda, San Antonio, TX (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 1:42 PM)

Wayne, if that child has to see a psychologist, I suggest that the principal has the following appointment.

Nanalinda, San Antonio, TX (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 1:56 PM)

Well said Steve in Cedar Falls. There really isn't much point in getting into a battle of wits with an unarmed man. You are certainly correct inpoiting out the difference between an Iowa (or even NY) education and a South Carolina one.

Bill Rochester NY (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 3:24 PM)

If that's the best a 13-year-old can do, I guess maybe really is time to bring back art classes in public schools.

MaryS, Poway, Calif. (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 3:24 PM)

To me, based on recent news stories, it was people excaping from the jet that went down in China  - Even after I read that it was a gun, I still can't see it and I make my living as a creative designer. - I guess you see what you're looking for.

gn lars, Denver, CO (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 3:26 PM)

The drawing looks like a building from New Orleans. With Larry coming to the rescue! HAH!
By the way Larry with all your bashing of Edwards and others here did you donate even ONE RED CENT to any of the myriad relief funds for Katrina victims. I didn't think so. You are TWPITW!

Bill Rochester NY (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 3:28 PM)

To me, based on recent news stories, it was people excaping from the jet that went down in China  - Even after I read that it was a gun, I still can't see it and I make my living as a creative designer. - I guess you see what you're looking for.

gn lars, Denver, CO (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 3:28 PM)

The drawing looks like a building from New Orleans. With Larry coming to the rescue! HAH!
By the way Larry with all your bashing of Edwards and others here did you donate even ONE RED CENT to any of the myriad relief funds for Katrina victims. I didn't think so. You are TWPITW!

Bill Rochester NY (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 3:28 PM)

My youngest is wearing his 'Special Forces' shirt today, and all four of my boys have one in honor of their Uncle John.  Although my three oldest wear uniforms to school, I wonder if they'd be allowed to wear their shirts with the Green Beret, swords and arrows the elementary school in Naples.

Hmmm, me thinks that I shall give it the test when we get there.  Oh wait, maybe the last week of school here-see what their crazy beatch of a principal says about it.  HAHAHAHAHA!!

Jamie, CV, CA (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 3:34 PM)

Itsa bird , itsa plane , its doodle gun . OMG , run for your lives . I think a trip to the principal's office should have cleared this up . I guess principals are as clueless now as when I went to school .

Andy Vollmer (Sent Friday, August 24, 2007 3:59 PM)



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