The Big Debate/Court Date/Head, etc

Posted: Wednesday, September 26, 2007 12:41 PM by Countdown

Big debate tonight from Dartmouth College on MSNBC hosted by the one and only Tim Russert. We'll have complete debate preps, with Chris Matthews joining Keith right before the thing kicks off at 9pm ET. If you have a question for one of the Democratic candidates...you can submit them here, and maybe Tim will use it on the air.

Also...we'll have the latest on the most recent case of 9/11 tourettes by the Bush Administration.

We'll bring you all the details from Larry Craig's day in court today (will the judge toss out his guilty plea? Will he buy the 'wide stance' argument?).

Keith will give you all the latest on Bill O'Reilly's non-attempt to redeem himself after his dubious comments about dinner at Sylvia's in Harlem. He went on another defensive diatribe last night.

Plus an update on that Bonds home run ball...big show, hope you'll join us!

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Comments

My question: What exactly does "defunding the war" mean? How does this affect our troops? Does this mean they will no longer get the best equipment, medical care, etc.?

This is what the GOP is telling us if Congress defunds the war. Is this true?

Pat, Boston, MA (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 1:14 PM)

Gosh, poor Billo, it was just mean for MSNBC and CNN to make Bill look like an ignorant racist doofus by playing unaltered broadcast of his own words. A Big Giant Talking Head just can't get a break anymore.

Scott Copeland, Naples Fl (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 1:21 PM)

Pat, depends upon your definition of true. It is as true as their saying we were under imminent danger of attack with WMDs by Saddam Hussein. You be the judge.

nuanced (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 1:30 PM)

How about asking which former president they admire the most and why? I think thier answer would provide a lot of insight as to how they would govern.

jen,il (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 1:34 PM)

Pat - since when does anyone believe a single word that the Repubnikants say? Defunding was the method Congress used to FINALLY get us out of the nightmare in Viet Nam after all other methods failed. It's a last resort to get us out of the nightmare in Iraq.

What defunding will do is allocate funds ONLY for withdrawal of troops.

BushCo and his Repugnikant allies have held our soldiers hostage long enough. Their war-profiteer supporters have stuffed enough money in their pockets. We have created more hatred in the middle east than we could have ever imagined. We have bombed Iraq into the stone age (they have no running water, less than an hour of electricity per day, their industries and jobs have been outsourced to no-bid contractors, and we have killed more than a million Iraqis). We have lost almost 4.000 soldiers.

It is time to free the troops. To allow BushCo to continue to use the troops as hostages for more billions of dollars means more unnecessary death and destruction.

Time for the Dems to stand up and REALLY support the troops by bringing them home. No more blood for oil or war-profiteers. No more money except to bring them home.

Sue, West Allis, Wisconsin (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 1:37 PM)

Pat, Boston, MA (1:14 PM Post): Defunding the war means just what it says. No more money to fund the conflict. If Bush were to leave our troops in Iraq with no funds to continue, yes, it would mean no more money for equipment or any other military needs earmarked for the troops in Iraq. He would have to bring the troops home. On the other hand, knowing Bush, he might tell the troops to stay and defend themselves with rocks. Congress can say we will only give you this much, and provide only that dollar amount that would be required to continue to supply the troops currently in Iraq with whatever they need until all those currently serving in Iraq have left the country, and the monies needed to transport the troops home safely and out of harms way.

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 1:41 PM)

Sue, thanks. You made my point.

I would just like for once, just once, that one of these Democratic candidates clarify exactly what "defunding the war" means. We're getting a great deal of misinformation as to what it means and its intent.

Pat, Boston, MA (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 1:44 PM)

I submitted a question concerning if/when these candidates would begin the address the abuses to the Constitution by this administration on the campaign trail and what they would do to ensure, if they become president, that these abuses won't happen again. I doubt it gets used, but what the heck...

And, how "F"ed up is our justice system if Senator Craig's plea gets tossed out, and he doesn't even attend the hearing?! Just when I thought I wouldn't have to hear about "wide stances" anymore...UGH.

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 1:47 PM)

Note to moderator -- no need to post this, but shouldn't that be "Tourettes" rather than "turrets"

"Oliver Sacks" (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 1:55 PM)

Are contractors good for the military or is it better to have the military do thier own laundry and cooking and interigation?

jen,il (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:15 PM)

we have killed more than a million Iraqis).

Sue, West Allis, Wisconsin (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 1:37 PM)

Oh really, so our great military has killed over a million Iraqis. You mind providing the basis for that accusation. I didn't know that our brave young men and women were strapping bombs on themselves, or rigging their humvees with explosives. You wonder why people say the left of center is against the military.

By the way, you should follow Carol from LV and stop with the name calling. It adds no value to the debate.

Ghost of NJ (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:16 PM)

In just a few minutes Gates will be asking for more war funding. The Democrates claim that from the beginning will not hold back funds for the troops. They threaten to delay the funding maybe until December, but they will not make a big deal about it. There are protesters in the chambers making their objections known. So just what does this crap "defunding" mean?

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:17 PM)

Billo absolutely made an a** of himself. Gosh, he just discovered Blacks. He made all those stupid remarks on his radio show. Where is Al Sharpton? Isn't he going to get all over him for this? Just because he broke bread with him, Sharpton shouldn't let Billo get away with his ignorance. Billo, I found out will be on The View sometime in November. That should be a hoot. With Whoopi Goldberg and Sherri Shepherd already disgusted at Billo's remarks, this should be good.

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:20 PM)

"Gosh, poor Billo, it was just mean for MSNBC and CNN to make Bill look like an ignorant racist doofus by playing unaltered broadcast of his own words. A Big Giant Talking Head just can't get a break anymore."

I guess that is why Juan Williams (NPR employee and an african american)came to his rescue last night! Because, in fact, CNN and NBC distorted the truth and I wonder what Rev. Al Sharpton will say about it tonight on Billo's show, come up for some fresh air and watch it tonight instead KO rantings!

P.S. Like you will ever post this!

Tom, DC (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:21 PM)

How would or wouldn't you encourage Americans to participate in the governace of thier country?

jen,il (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:28 PM)

My question was will you be willing to deny the funds unless the precepts of the Webb/Nagel bill are enacted? Asking them to say yes to a complete draw down is useless, at least this can put the President of the defensive. Have him explain why a soldier that spent 15 months in Iraq doesn't deserve to spend 15 months home. I know we don't have enough troops to do that, that's the point. We don't have enough troops. Can somebody in this debate show some backbone?

Frederick Sweeney, Brooklyn (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:36 PM)

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:20 PM)

Hopefully you aren't waiting for Al Sharpton to add credibility to the issue. He is nothing but a race baiting liar who exploits the miseries of others.

Ghost of NJ (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:36 PM)

I was amazed to see Matt Lauer take Billo's side on this story considering how much Billo blasts NBC/MSNBC on a nightly basis

Matt (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:43 PM)

CA , Didn't I just hear Hillary say she wouldn't bring the troops home immediately, and also say she had no idea how many troops would have to stay after everyone left ?

Please address that and tell me Hillary was just kidding.

Larry Charleston, SC (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:46 PM)

Moderator , please post my questions for sen Clinton. Everyone on this site needs to know the truthful answers since she is going to be your candidate.

Larry Charleston, SC (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:48 PM)

Ghost of NJ- That number comes from the British medical journal "The Lancet" and Johns Hopkins University. They actually interviewed Iraqi families throughout the country and used the same process that is used and has been used to figure out how how many people have died in conflicts all over the world. Like Darfur, Rawanda, Bosnia etc. Not all million people were killed by our soldiers they also include people killed in the sectarian violance and basically anyone who died because of our presence. My question to you is how many people do you think have been killed during a war with the most powerful military in the world? Our soldiers are very good at what they do and have been fighting in Iraq for more than 4 years do you really believe they have only killed 70,000 or what ever number the right wing is currently tossing around.

jen,il (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:48 PM)

One million Iraqis dead is not a figure I've made up (unlike Bill O'Liar's "facts"). It's from the British Medical Journal "The Lancet" based on medical reports from Iraq. They've been the only group keeping the figures on this part of the tragedy. Those doctors, you know, base their figures on those pesky facts and use scientific data collection methods.

Stuff isn't wrong if it doesn't agree with the kool-aid drinking talking points you're given, Ghost. By the way, how about using your real name like the rest of us?

Sue, West Allis, Wisconsin (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:49 PM)

How about asking the candidates how many Iraqis have died because of our occupation? A million is the most reliable estimate but it is also clearly a number Americans cannot stomach and refuse to even consider.

jen,il (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:51 PM)

News Hole:

Why put up a new thread when you cannot maintain the existing ones?

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:55 PM)

Off topic, but I need to point out a guy who just doesn't belong on the Federal Election Commission. His recess appointment by BushCo is up for Senate confirmation.

http://thinkprogress.org/2007/09/26/spakovsky-primer/

Employees of the Justice Department have provided information on voter suppression efforts enabled by Hans von Spakovsky during his time as head of the Civil Rights Division where he did everything BUT promote civil rights.

Well, he IS experienced in elections, just making sure that the "wrong" people don't vote.

Sue, West Allis, Wisconsin (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:58 PM)

Sue West / Ghost of NJ: Some trite biggering about 1 million Iraqis being killed. Naturally, our troops have not killed 1 million Iraqis. Our troops have defended themselves and in the process people have been killed. Thats' it. The fact is that the Iraqi's, Sunni, Shiite and Kurds do not like one another and have not for a long time. They have always been at the brink of cutting loose and to begin killing one another. Yes, there is aggitation and particpation by terrorist groups that is not helping the siutation. But what I believe Sue to have meant is that 1 million Iraqis may not have lost their lives if we had not invaded in the first place. I'm sure Saddam would have continued taking out several thousand Iraqis who opposed his dictatorship, but not in the numbers and short period of time that the US invasion has allowed by opening up the flood gates to what the Iraqis had in mind for each other all along. They lost the person who controled them, regardless of what you felt about Saddam. Now it is a free-for-all where many are losing their lives in the chaos that the US has helped to create by eliminating the person who controled their behavior. Simple as that. Now, what are we going to do about that with 165,000 soldiers in a country populated by millions? That is where the suggestions nd comments should be coming from.

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:03 PM)

I'm afraid allocating monies only for withdrawal may be the only option left. Excederin headache # 43 could give stubborn lessons to mules, so I don't hold any hope he'll have an epiphany and realize the number of incomprehensibly terrible mistakes he's made. He's got his blinders firmly in place and his fingers in his ears and his manipulators in control so he'll just continue to stumble along till the next election. And all the while more Americans and Iraqis will be killed for unscrupulous fat cats to line their pockets even further with no consequences. Unconscionable!

Rocky Mountain Guy, Colorado (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:04 PM)

Ghost of NJ (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:16 PM)

"Opinion Research Business (ORB) poll conducted August 12-19, 2007 estimated 1,220,580 violent deaths due to the Iraq War. A nationally representative sample of 1,499 Iraqi adults answered whether any members of their household (living under their roof) were killed due to the Iraq War. 22% of the respondents had lost one or more household members. ORB reported that "48% died from a gunshot wound, 20% from the impact of a car bomb, 9% from aerial bombardment, 6% as a result of an accident and 6% from another blast/ordnance."

Of course, I doubt very much we'll ever know the true numbers, either way.

And I think that a lot of people could be just a tad more polite when speaking to each other here...but that might be asking for too much.

I'm reminded of the 'Internet Political Debate' gag in Red vs Blue.

Kevin, Lincoln, NE (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:09 PM)

Tom, DC (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:21 PM)

Tom - How do you "distort" the truth when the play the actual audio from his radio show? It wasn't edited to spin the truth like you see on Orally's show. You right wingers are nuts!!!!!!! It's amazing at what length you will go to protect a fellow right winger even when all the evidence points to the contrary.
Billo is a perv and a racist. it's time to face true hard facts.

Mike, AL (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:15 PM)

If this is a REAL Democracy, why can't we let each of them be President for 6 months and if it works, re-elect the whole bunch for another 48, or THEN pick the one who did the best job, huh? Kind of like Temps, which is what I wish we had right now. So you can fire them on Friggaday and have a fresh face on Moonday.

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:23 PM)

jen,il (2:28 PM Post): Not sure I would change a thing about the American people's involvement or particpation in order to govern themselves. But I would change some proceses. The American people's governing tool is the vote. I would eliminate the electoral college and elect a President by popular vote. I would install term limits for Congress. I would do whatever it takes via the legal system to eliminate the involvement and powers of those special interest groups in Washington. I would implement real campaign finance reform allowing for the poor man/woman to seek office. I would adopt the British parlimentary practice of allowing congressional delegates (in turns because of their numbers) to hold weekly or monthly question and answer periods with the President as you have seen with Tony Blair and the House of Lords on PBS. I would seek a law requiring that the President's cabinet be made up of an equal number of republicans and democrats (while the two party system is maintained). I would seek a special government body made up of Congressional members and randomly chosen average Americans whose only purpose was to evaluate, study and recommend improved domestic policy to the President and Congress. I would limit (by law) the amount of recess time Congress was allowed. Those are just a few suggestions for a start.

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:25 PM)

UPDATE BEFORE THE NEXT PRESIDENTIAL ELECTION?

WOW (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:25 PM)

Ghost of NJ (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:16 PM)

It is President Bombsalot that has murdered innocent Iraqis. The military, who reports to the Commander-In-Chief of the United States of America, has betrayed our men and women in a manner that is utterly incomprehensible to me.

Yes, Ghost, George W. Bush is responsible for the deaths of over a million Iraqis, whether you agree with his "plan" or lack of, he is responsible.

I also agree that civility should be used on this blog; I must also state it was YOU who began attacking me and others, using very nasty words. I forgive you!! Please continue on your new path displaying "manners" in your posts!!

PEACE!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:31 PM)

"I guess that is why Juan Williams (NPR employee and an african american)came to his rescue last night! Because, in fact, CNN and NBC distorted the truth and I wonder what Rev. Al Sharpton will say about it tonight on Billo's show, come up for some fresh air and watch it tonight instead KO rantings!"

Yeah, Billo is using the ol' "you gonna believe me or your own ears" defense again. Juan Williams & Billo can talk till the cows come home, but again, it's The Big Giant Head's own words that pretty much speak for themself and reveal a lot more about Billo and his supporters than most would like.

Scott Copeland, Naples Fl (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:35 PM)

P.S. Like you will ever post this!
Tom, DC (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:21 PM)

How does crow taste, anyway?

Timmy, Milwaukee WI (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:36 PM)

It adds no value to the debate.
Ghost of NJ (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:16 PM)

On the other hand, Ghostie, you add tremendous value to the debate.

You and the other trolls continue to show how it sounds when someone bends over a chair and yells at the top of their lungs, "Whatever you say my masters, I refuse to question and will follow along without incident!"

Pitiful.

Timmy, Milwaukee WI (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:38 PM)

INNOCENT until proven guilty

O J (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:48 PM)

Is Dan Rather planning on calling BushCo and DaddyBush as witnesses in his CBS lawsuit?

http://www.examiner.com/blogs/Yeas_and_Nays/2007/9/26/Rather-chokes-up-and-hunkers-down

Also, if you want the REAL story about the REAL story of BushCo's "service" as reported by the BBC:

http://www.gregpalast.com/dan-rather-tased-and-confused/

Enjoy.

Sue, West Allis, Wisconsin (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:54 PM)

jen. Good point. In Vietnam, if you could get to a chow hall, there were GI's doing the 'cooking' which always beat the canned field version by at least a bit. They made the same 87.50 base pay as all the other GI's, not the twenty-grand a month or whatever the contractors get, plus some for their Corporation for being so ...well, Just Wonderful! in a No-Bid kinda way. (I wonder what the difference in Combat Pay is?)

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:57 PM)

PLEASE UPDATE

Thank You (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:01 PM)

I am very surprised that MSNBC has not shared the fact RD Stahl of NECN the New England channel from Boston sharing the spotlight with MSNBC. There has been no mention of being able to watch it. They do say that they are participating with MSNBC on this.

Paulet, Simsbury, CT (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:19 PM)

Steve- Having G.I.'s doing everything also means everyone we send has the same goal, to end the war and come home. By paying contractors to provide these services we have created a large number of people in Iraq whose jobs depend on the war continuing.

jen,il (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:25 PM)

I just had a gander at the Bill-O rant. To be honest, I mostly skimmed. Then I found the section called "Pinheads and Patriots."

Bill-O finally admitted that he's a pinhead. Granted, it was about something related to Barry Bonds, but he admitted it!

It's on the record, and documented!

Brandon Irvine (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:30 PM)

Lisa Dorward, Morgantown, WV

To see how the senate votes on any given issue go here.

http://www.senate.gov/pagelayout/legislative/a_three_sections_with_teasers/votes.htm

To see how the house votes on any given issue go here.
http://clerk.house.gov/legislative/legvotes.html

or for 2007 house votes only
http://clerk.house.gov/evs/2007/index.asp

Carol, Long Valley NJ (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:44 PM)

How does crow taste, anyway?
Timmy, Milwaukee WI (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 3:36 PM)

LOL!! "DC" will never get it, his rants our more bizarre and full of lies than Geoge W. Bush's

Also, his strings are always showing!!

PEACE!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:45 PM)

Steve Turner, Cedar Falls (3:57 PM Post): By golly Steve I want to thank you for clearing that up as to what we ate in Nam. When some of us first arrived home there were those (seriously) who tried to convince some of us that we had lowered ourselves to eating us Vietnamese babies.

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:46 PM)

Ghost of NJ (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 2:16 PM

Ghost--Why do right wingers always try to take a sensible statement and spin it until it fits their need? Please read the entire paragraph before making dumb comments. At no time did Sue say our military has killed anyone, she said "BushCo and the Repubikants". Bush has taken our great country and made us the most hated nation in the muslim world and probably the entire world. Americans spent over 225 years making this country a world leader in all areas and Bush and his cronies made us a mockery in just a couple of years. People that still jump to this administrations defense completely amaze me. I feel like I'm in the twilight zone.
In regards to name-calling: sometimes that's the only way to get right wingers attention. So I'll end by saying this. You are my moron. Go haunt another blog.

Mike, AL (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:48 PM)

A little off the subject but, just to follow up on Slippery Shuster's little lie the other day!! It now turns out that Army Private Jeremy Bohannon had not, contrary to Shuster’s claim, lived in Rep. Blackburn’s congressional district. As blogger Conservative Belle brought to NB’s attention, and as she has written about at her site, Private Bohannon lived in Bon Acqua, TN. Checking his nine-digit zip code reveals that he in fact lived in Tennessee District 8, represented by John Tanner, a Democrat.

Oh well, Olby's whipping boy never did get much right, did he! I think he's STILL waiting for Karl Rove to be indicted!!

Mike, Baltimore, Md (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:50 PM)

Ghost/NJ 2:36 PM..well seein' as Al got his knickers in an uproar over Imus's remarks, which was the same, but in a different way then Billos' remarks..oh well..if Sharpton is Billo's new BFF..that's ok..Billo needs all the friends he can get.

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:52 PM)

C A:

The laws you suggested sound great!! I would add to also seek a law that the American people would have the right/power to seek the firing of any elected officials who have abused the laws of OUR CONSTITUTION.

Kathy, Chicago, IL (Sent Wednesday, September 26, 2007 4:59 PM)

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