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The Levin Revelation

Posted: Monday, November 05, 2007 9:00 PM by Countdown
Filed Under:

The full transcript of Keith's Special Comment after the jump.

Finally tonight, as promised, a Special Comment on the meaning of the story of former U.S. Acting Assistant Attorney General Daniel Levin.

It is a fact startling in its cynical simplicity and it requires cynical and simple words to be properly expressed:

The Presidency of George W. Bush has now devolved into a criminal conspiracy to cover the ass of George W. Bush.

All the petulancy, all the childish threats, all the blank-stare stupidity;

All the invocations of World War Three, all the sophistic questions about which terrorist attacks we wanted him not to stop, all the phony secrets;

All the claims of executive privilege, all the stumbling tap-dancing of his nominees, all the verbal flatulence of his apologists...

All of it is now -- after one revelation last week -- transparently clear for what it is: the pathetic and desperate manipulation of the government, the re-focusing of our entire nation, towards keeping this mock president, and this unstable vice president, and this departed wildly self-over-rating Attorney General -- and the others -- from potential prosecution for having approved or ordered the illegal torture of prisoners being held in the name of this country.

"Waterboarding is torture," Daniel Levin was to write.

Daniel Levin was no theorist and no protestor.

He was no troublemaking politician.

He was no table-pounding commentator.

Daniel Levin was an astonishingly patriotic American, and a brave man.

Brave not just with words or with stances -- even in a dark time when that kind of bravery can usually be scared -- or bought -- off.

Charged -- as you heard in the story from ABC News last Friday -- with assessing the relative legality of the various nightmares in the Pandora's box that is the Orwell-worthy euphemism "Enhanced Interrogation," Mr. Levin decided that the simplest, and the most honest, way to evaluate them... was to have them enacted upon himself.

Daniel Levin took himself to a military base and let himself be water-boarded.

Mr. Bush -- ever done anything that personally courageous?

Perhaps when you've gone to Walter Reed and teared up over the maimed servicemen? And then gone back to the White House and determined that there would be more maimed servicemen?

Has it been that kind of personal courage, Mr. Bush, when you've spoken of American victims and the triumph of freedom and the sacrifice of your own popularity for the sake of our safety? And then permitted others to fire or discredit or destroy anybody who disagreed with you -- whether they were your own Generals, or... Max Cleeland, or... Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame… or Daniel Levin?

Daniel Levin should have a statue in his honor in Washington right now.

Instead, he was forced out as Acting Assistant Attorney General, nearly three years ago, because he had the guts to do what George Bush couldn't do in a million years: actually put himself at risk for the sake of his country, for the sake of what is right.

And they water-boarded him and he wrote that even though he knew those doing it meant him no harm, and he knew they would rescue him at the instant of the slightest distress, and he knew he would not die -- still, with all that reassurance, he could not stop the terror screaming from inside of him, could not quell the horror, could not convince that which is at the core of each of us -- the entity who exists behind all the embellishments we strap to ourselves, like purpose and name and family and love -- he could not convince his being… that he wasn't drowning.

Water-boarding, he said, is torture.

Legally, it is torture!

Practically, it is torture!

Ethically, it is torture!

And he wrote it down.

Wrote it down somewhere, where it could be contrasted with the words of this country's 43rd President: "The United States of America... does not torture."

Made you into a liar, Mr. Bush.

Made you into, if anybody had the guts to pursue it, a criminal, Mr. Bush.

Water-boarding had already been used on Khalid Sheik Mohammed and a couple of other men none of us really care about -- except, Sir, for the one detail you'd forgotten -- that there are rules, and even if we just make up these rules, this country observes them anyway, because we're Americans, Sir, and we're better than that.

We're better than you.

And the man your Justice Department selected to decide whether or not water-boarding was torture, had decided, and not in some phony academic fashion, nor while wearing the Walter Mitty poseur attire of flight-suit and helmet.

He had put his money, Mr. Bush, where your mouth was.

So, your sleazy sycophantic henchman Mr. Gonzales had him append an asterisk suggesting his black-and-white answer wasn't black-and-white, that there might have been a quasi-legal way of torturing people, maybe with an absolute time limit and a physician entitled to stop it, maybe, if your administration had ever bothered to set any rules or any guidelines…

And then when your people realized that even that was too dangerous, Daniel Le Vin was branded "too independent" and "someone who could (not) be counted on."

In other words, Mr. Bush, somebody you couldn't count on to lie for you.

So, Levin was fired.

Because if it ever got out what he'd concluded, and the lengths to which he went, to validate that conclusion, anybody who had sanctioned water-boarding, and who-knows-what-else… anybody -- you yourself, Sir -- you would have been screwed.

And screwed you are.

It can't be coincidence that the story of Daniel Levin should emerge from the black hole of this secret society of a presidency just at the conclusion of the unhappy saga of the newest Attorney General Nominee.

Another patriot somewhere, listened as Judge Mukasey mumbled like he'd never heard of water-boarding, and refuse to answer in words… that which Daniel Levin answered on a water-board somewhere in Maryland or Virginia three years ago.

And this someone also heard George Bush say "The United States of America does not torture"... and realized either he was lying or this wasn't the United States of America any more, and either way, he needed to do something about it.

Not in the way Levin needed to do something about it, but in a brave way nonetheless.

We have United States Senators who need to do something about it, too.

Chairman Leahy of the Judiciary Committee has seen this for what it is and said "enough."

Senator Schumer has seen it, reportedly, as some kind of puzzle piece in the New York political patronage system and he has failed.

What Senator Feinstein has seen, to justify joining Schumer in rubber-stamping Mukasey, I cannot guess.

It is obvious that both those Senators should look to the meaning of the story of Daniel Levin and recant their support for Mukasey's confirmation.

And they should look into their own committee's history and recall that in 1973, their predecessors were able to wring even from Richard Nixon, a guarantee of a Special Prosecutor (ultimately a Special Prosecutor of Richard Nixon!), in exchange for their approval of his new Attorney General, Elliott Richardson.

If they could get that out of Nixon, you -- before you confirm the President's latest human echo tomorrow -- you better be able to get a "yes" or a "no"… out of Michael Mukasey.

Ideally you should lock this government down financially until a special prosecutor is appointed -- or fifty of them -- but I'm not holding my breath. The "yes" or the "no" on water-boarding will have to suffice.

Because, remember... if you can't get it, or you won't... with the time between tonight and the next presidential election likely to be the longest year of our lives, you are leaving this country, and all of us, to the water-boards -- symbolic and otherwise -- of George W. Bush.

Ultimately, Mr. Bush, the real question isn't... who approved the water-boarding of this fiend Khalid Sheik Mohammed and two others.

It is: why were they water-boarded?

Study after study for generation after generation, sir, has confirmed that torture gets people to talk, torture gets people to plead, torture gets people to break, but torture does not get them to tell the truth.

Of course, Mr. Bush, this isn't a problem, if you don't care if the terrorist plots they tell you about, are the truth... or just something to stop the tormentors from drowning them.

If, say, a President simply needed a constant supply of terrorist threats to keep a country scared…

If, say, he needed phony plots to play hero during, and to boast about interrupting, and to use to distract people from the threat he**didn't** interrupt…

If, say, he realized that even terrorized people still need good ghost stories before they will let a President pillage the Constitution…

Well, heck, Mr. Bush, who better to dream them up for you… than an actual terrorist?

He'll tell you every thing he ever fantasized doing, in his most horrific of daydreams -- his equivalent of the day you "flew" onto the deck of the Lincoln to explain you'd won in Iraq.

Now if that's what this is all about -- you tortured not because you're so stupid you think torture produces confession -- but you tortured because you're smart enough to know it produces really authentic-sounding fiction -- well, then… you're going to need all the lawyers you can find… because that crime wouldn't just mean impeachment, would it Sir?

That crime would mean George W. Bush is going to prison.

Thus the master tumblers turn, and the lock yields, and the hidden explanations can all be perceived, in their exact proportions, in their exact progressions.

Daniel Levin's eminently practical, eminently logical, eminently patriotic way of testing the legality of waterboarding… has to vanish -- and him, with it.

Thus Alberto Gonzales has to use that brain that sounds like an old car trying to start on a freezing morning, to undo eight centuries of the forward march of law and government.

Thus Dick Cheney, has to ridiculously assert that confirming we do or do not use any particular interrogation technique, would somehow help the terrorists.

Thus Michael Mukasey, on the eve of the vote that will make him the high priest of the law of this land, cannot and must not answer a question, nor even hint that he has thought about a question, which merely concerns the theoretical definition of water-boarding as torture.

Because, Mr. Bush, in the seven years of your nightmare presidency, this whole string of events has been transformed…

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Comments

I’m speechless.  You slew the Jabberwock.  
Do as I say not as I do
Bravo, Keith! When the history of the Bush presidency is written, you will be remembered as one of the strongest (and most eloquent) voices to speak out against the abuses of this administration.
Amen and bravo.
WE VETERANS WHO FOUGHT IN THE PAST AS FOUND US A TRULY AMERICAN "GOD BLESS AMERICA IT CAN BE SAID HONESTLY "GOD BLESS AMERICA Mr KEITH
Wow. That is what I am talking about, Keith! After a Special Comment like that, how could you ever go back to reporting on celebrity gossip? Your talent, anger, and elloquence should ALWAYS be directed towards issues of tremendous importance, such as our current "debate" on torture.

For the entire length of the Special Comment, it was like I was listening to a genuinely independent, honest, non-corporate controlled voice.

I predict one day that Keith will completely break free from the bondage of false left/right paradigms, silly cable news battles, and conflicts with corporate interests. He'll show up with his own independent show one day (most likely internet based), and I'll throw my FULL support behind that.
Keith,

AWESOME!

Sharing with family and friends.

With compassion,
Mike Sawyer
Www.AmBlessed.com/InMemoryOf.htm
Keith,

AWESOME!

Sharing with family and friends.

With compassion,
Mike Sawyer
Www.AmBlessed.com/InMemoryOf
We are 2 nations tonight. As a student of history, this idea knocked me in the back of my head A LA "having a V8." Just as there was a "North" and a "South" during the Civil War, I believe we are 2 nations, 2 distinct countries tonight. There is the country of those who were wonderfully described by a couple of tonight's guests on COUNTDOWN and Keith Olbermann in his "Special Comment" as "...lazy, stupid, and pseudo-tough...", "...pathetic, ideologically bankrupt, and incompotent,..." and apologists of "...verbal flatulence...". Do these traits sound like anyone we know around here of the troll-like persuasion? And, worse yet, there are Democratic members of the Senate Judiciary Committee, namely Senators Schumer and Feinstein, who are ready to capitulate AGAIN to this ilk in an irrational fear of being portrayed as being "soft on terror" if Mr. Mukasey's nomination is derailed.

More in a bit...
Hot damn!  I hope this helps get people off their butts and call their congressmen, representatives, and anyone else.  These people were elected to represent us, and they keep selling us out.  I have been trying to tell people for seven years what would happen if they gave power to this evil man, but no one would believe me.
It is so heartwarming to know that in the sea of mediocrity that is the media of today, you stand out as a stalwart beacon telling truth to power. Thank you for saying what so many of us feel.
It is so heartwarming to know that in the sea of mediocrity that is the media of today, you stand out as a stalwart beacon telling truth to power. Thank you for saying what so many of us feel.
Thank you, Keith. I only hope that millions heard/read this "special comment" tonight. You expressed my views perfectly.
Keith Olbermann never ceases to amaze me.  Brilliant words from him, as always.
Nov.5:  Outstanding commentary!  Thank you for your insight, your eloquence and your courage.
Monday (11/5) special comment may be most courageous thing I've seen on TV in my 59 years on the planet.  Please post video of this asap so we can alert others who missed it.
Keep throwing the fast, hard stuff. Striking out the side, inning after inning, gets people talking about a perfect game by the 7th. The pitcher begins sitting alone, down at the far end of the bench as his team bats.
No matter how lonely it gets -- keep the heat on and go for the perfecct game.
Bush and Cheney are traitors. It will be established legally, historically, morally.
You must keep it up.
Great special comment, Keith! I truly respect your ability not to use any of George Carlin's "seven words you can't say on TV" when describing George Bush or his actions, God knows it must be difficult.
This transcript seems incomplete. Could you re-post with the whole text? Thanx.
Excellent work, Keith! Once again, a home run! Keep up the good work, and thank you for "keeping it real!"
I'm glad you speak for me, Keith.

I wish my senator, Chuck Schumer, would.
While listening to Keith O. read this tonight, I had a sudden fear someone from the Bush administration would charge into the studio and drag him off to be waterboarded and locked away forever in Gitmo.  The feeling was genuine -- and frightful. That says something about the reality of the way this nation has gone in the past 7 years.  Will we ever find our way back?  The last time I looked, there were no protestors in the streets.  Maybe soon?
Meanwhile, thank you, Keith, for your bravery.
Stunningly brilliant!
You, Keith, are the liar. You conveniently left out the fact tonight that Levin reported after his experience that  waterboarding 'might be' considered torture and illegal IF it were not carefully supervised and controlled. This is not the black/white statement you made it out to be tonight. You seem to want any tactic that causes mental distress but no immediate pain or permanent physical damage to be defined as 'torture'. Under your definition of torture, it would be illegal to tell an enemy combatant that they were going to 'rot in prison for the rest of their lives' because this would be too much of a psychological shock for them to bear. War is hell, Keithy. Is waterboarding torture? Even Levin did not say 'yes, under any circumstance.' Could it be torture under some circumstances? Of course. Is it drastic? Certainly. Is it terrifying? Probably. Does it inflict physical pain or permanent physical damage? No. Neither does sleep deprivation. Therefore, there are circumstances under which these practices do not constitute 'torture' as defined by Webster's or Geneva conventions. Therefore, prospective Attorneys General should not make blanket statements about the legality or illegality of the practice prior to their confirmation. Especially when Congress itself will not take a stance.

You are the kind of scum who is going to insure that we lose this war against terror. If that happens we lose all of our freedoms, which, by the way, includes your freedom to spew the kind of crap you did tonight.  I dare you to post this, but I've seen lately that your web staff only posts 'gratutious' and 'right-minded' comments from your groupies. Talk about Orwellian.
Thank you Keith for another wonderful Special Comment..it gave me goosebumps.
There, near the end, is the reason for torture; to prop up a bogus war on terror by "finding" evidence of that which does not exist.

This is my firm belief, and it's proof that the country and its government has been hijacked.
I saw this on tv as I was passing by.  I had to pinch myself.  To finally hear some truth on cable tv.  I love MSNBC television.  Wow...

##5 and 4– There you go, Countdown. Why on earth should Mr. Bush care what lawyers say about anything?  After all,  President Musharraf doesn’t, and Mr. Bush is much more clever than he is.  While President Musharraf had to expel HIS Supreme Court, Mr. Bush got Congress to help him emasculate OURS in advance.

You know, one of those “preventive measures” intended to eliminate a “threat to future law and order.”  Mr. Bush’s law and Mr. Bush’s order.  Our future.

And thanks for the quick peek at the Pakistani lawyers in their cute little black suits and ties being clubbed and gassed by Pakistani troops.   If it wasn’t so scary, it would have been perfect for Oddball.    

#3 – A solid piece on the environment.  It’s always a treat to see Al Gore.  But you probably don’t know that the “green” shot behind you is eerily, and ironically, similar to the commercial logo used by the evil, polluting, murdering corporation in George Clooney’s new movie (Michael Clayton).  (More on Clooney later.)

WPitW – Say it with me, everybody –  Fibbin.  Fibbin.  Fibbin.  Fibbin.  

Silver tie – good.  Silver hair – better.  (:

Special Comment.  Wow.  No, really.  Wow.  
THANK YOU KEITH, YOU'RE AS PATRIOTIC & BRAVE AS LEVIN FOR YOUR WORDS. YOU'RE A HERO TOO AND PLEASE KEEP IT UP.
"We the People of these United States" have been water-boarded by the Bush Whitehouse and all his "cronies" for the past eight years. They are above the law and hide behind the law. It is disgusting! When will anyone ever learn? As each day goes by I am more astonished by what has been happening to us as a country. I am sometimes rendered speechless..what can I say except "SHAME ON ALL OF THEM"......
As I mentioned in an earlier thread, tomorrow is Election Day. Go out and do your civic duty tomorrow no matter what the weather is (crappy here - check local listings), no matter what mood you're in, etc.; hopefully, most here don't have archaic "Election Day Blue Laws" dictating no alcohol sales before 6:00. Sure there's the not showing up drunk at your polling place concern, but if you need a "good belt" on any day, it's Election Day! I'm beginning my civic duty tonight to send Keith's "Special Comment" to my senators, Senators Schumer and Feinstein, and everyone else I have the energy to send it to. If you feel the same way I do, YOU DO THE SAME; if you disagree with me, let your representatives know, too.

Keith, tonight's "Special Comment" produced another joyous leap and a Whitman-esque "Barbaric Yaup" from yours truly. Unfortunately, only brave and honorable persons will enact your words; brave and honorable persons seem to be in short supply these days. But, thank you always and again. Good night, everyone.
HOORAH,HOORAH,HOORAH For Keith Olbermann as he has exhibited again the courage & integrity to challenge head-on the total deceit and lies of the current Pres. Bush. In an Age of Universal Deceit, telling The Truth is a Revolutionary Act!  There must be a complete return to the US Constitution or America will cease of exist for us and our children's children!  Don't Stop Keith!!
Another direct... to the point...special report. It is a sad comentary that this is what is going on in our great country. President Bush and his tribe, have ramsacked our county and our constitution.

Olbermann please keep poring on the heat and maybe we can save what is left of our democracy.

Sincerely,
Carol Lobato
A stunning commentary on Daniel Levin's bravery.  I guess waterboarding is what it takes to get someone to change their mind.

I just tried to call Dianne Feinstein's office (closed until tomorrow morning), so went to the web site to get the local office number and, low and behold, the website was down!!  Maybe Keith got all the Californians motivated.  We can only hope for action.
Keith and Mr. Levin are two true American heroes in a time when there are far too few heroes.  Thank god for your voice of sanity and reason, Mr. Olbermann.  This is your finest special comment, ever.
It's been a long time since I've seen "that" look and heard "that" voice.  Keith Olbermann's commentary almost defies description given it's passion, exactness and accuracy.  Jefferson argued that we deserve the government we get.  " Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone.  The people themselves are its only safe depositories (trust)."  I am so fed up with this President, and Congress that let him run amok, the election cannot come soon enough.  We deserve and must have better.  Think and Vote!
mr. olbermann

i just had to get something off my chest...

i have just recently started watching your show.  as an american veteran i am appalled at the corruption of this administration.  i have been searching for some time now for the next Bill Hicks.  searching for someone who will inspire with compassion and logic and passion.  someone who will take the responsibility upon them self to speak to the heart of whatever it is that connects all of us.  i have to be honest...i never, ever, ever expected to find that person in the news media (let alone a t.v. commentator)...and i just wanted to thank you for that...i see that you contributed a quote to the book "love all the people", so he obviously inspired you as well...i thank you again for keeping his spirit alive and well...we really need it now!

sincerely

iowa veteran
A great beginning for November--More "Special Comments"

Let' have one on the first Monday of every month until this madness is over!
Another laudable moment for freedom of the press and for Keith's courage.  Perhaps those of us who are persuaded by his argument about the illegality of many administration "strategies" can come together to affect a change . . . an investigation that will lead Mr. Bush toward what he and his administration so richly deserve.
Did you say "The Presidency of George W. Bush has now devolved into a criminal conspiracy to cover the ass of George W. Bush?"

Man Keith, you're really a powerful man who can question authority.
I applaud you...again Mr. Olbermann.
  But in so doing I have a request, a wholehearted wish, if you will, and that is that you continue this line day after day after day.  If you do not then my voice and the millions of others who feel the same way will remain silenced.  We do not have a voice, we cannot command a microphone and even if we could we would be unable to communicate our ideas effectively, intelligbly.

So Mr. Olbermann for your skill, for your intelligent insight, your fate is to be our voice.  Please do not let us down.

Sincerely,
D. Didereaux
Torture is effective in achieving only two things:
1) Terrorizing the opposition.
2) Extracting false confessions for political purposes.

That's why it's being done. Those are the only reasons it's ever been done.

Jail the torturers before it too late.
Kieth THANK YOU! Hopefully you will keep the whole torture business alive each night.

Kaj-Larson also had himself waterboarded. Kaj is a former US Navy SEAL, and an executive board member of the Center for Citizen Leadership, a non-profit dedicated to mentoring wounded veterans into Public Service. He holds a Masters degree in Public Policy from Harvard University’s John F. Kennedy School of Government.

Kaj reached the same conclusion as Mr. Levin. He wrote an article about his experience entitled 'A Lesson For Mukasey: Why I Had Myself Water-Boarded' and the link is here: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/kaj-larson/a-lesson-for-mukasey-why_b_70651.html

He would most likely make an excellent guest.

Again Thanks for being there when your country needs you.

I'm all for getting Bush to spend the rest of his life in a Federal prison, and I don't really care what he is ultimately charged with.

Al Capone, the infamous murderer who went to jail over Income Tax evasion and George W. Bush could go to jail over this, when he has committed so many other more heinous crimes, including Murder and Treason.

And as firmly as I believe that George W. Bush is an Evil, Monopolistic Fascist, I'm still waiting for
Science to figure out a way to build a new line of Democratic leaders who aren't just small-time versions of their Republican peers.

I recall with deep depression this dumbest of Presidential candidates accusing his "Democrat" opponent of fuzzy math and don't remember the opponent going on the attack and questioning George's math skills or any other skills he might have.

I'm still waiting..........................

Ultimately, if we are to continue as a country with a two or more party system, then at least one of them has to be honorable and deserving of our trust and respect.

Otherwise, can you say fascism? Ann Coulter, Karl Rove, Rush Limbaugh, Bill O'Reilly, Ari Fleischer, Dana Perrino, etc. are actually mentoring.

George W. Bush makes me long for Dan Quayle. How pathetic is that? It makes me Mistre. Potatoe Hed.

God this stuff gives me such a headache.








As usual Keith, you are right on target.

Thanks for all the great coverage night after night on Countdown.

Keith, the Washington Post reported on this on Friday, December 31, 2004. Here is the link:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A37687-2004Dec30.html

Can you think of a better day to bury a story?
Keith, I don't know how sensitive an issue this is but I want to put it out there. As you can tell by my name, I am Jewish. It worries me that Schumer, Feinstein, and Lieberman, all Jewish members of the Senate, are supporting Mukasey (thank God for Russ Feingold!). I wonder how long it will take Al Jazeera to editorialize how the Jews, so sensitive about Nazi Torture, do not seem to have a problem supporting a man who would condone the torture of Arabs. This is a frightening prospect as it may be used to condone Arab torture of Jews. I recognize this is a very dicey subject, but if anyone has the guts to take it on, you do. Keep up the fearless work! Sam
After tonight's Special Comment regarding the Levin Revelation, I nominate Keith Olberman as the BEST PERSON In THE WORLD.  No one dares to utter dissent and truth to "power" like Keith.  His special comments should be required viewing by all Americans - especially those representatives and senators who purport to represent us all.  
It's nice to have ONE lonely voice to speak for ALL of us who understand what's going on, and can do nothing about it--other than voting next year.  

The Dems want to contain the WH damage w/o impeachment or criminal charges to spare the country the black eye of our first dictator.

The Neo-Cons are their polar opposite, and would impeach HRC for the slightest infraction--real or perceived. And will do everything they can to see that she has the LEAST power as Pres. ever--the opposite of the most powerful Pres. ever: GWB hisself.  BLAME however won't have the same limitations as what little power she'll be reduced to.  
Brilliantly written, masterfully researched and as always Boldly delivered!  Thank You Keith, your Staff, your Management, your Network Ownership and your Sponsors for another "Special Comment" worthy of the American Republic of old.

Thank you Daniel Levine.  Your individual courage and obvious loyalty and dedication to the values and ideals of the Founding Fathers and Rule of Law is Forever appreciated by this family and will always be remembered.  Thank you especially for officially writing of it (at what must have been great risk to yourself).  Thank you to the Patriot who leaked this story to ABC News.

Thank you also to the Former Navy Seal who also submitted himself to waterboarding to demonstrate for the world to see that it was torture, you too sir have done your part.

Thank you Mrs. and Mr. Wilson for your courage, honor and Love of America.  Please accept my American Family's apology for what this Crimminal Administration has done to you and people you cared about.

It is time for the rest of us to do ours. Congress, follow Senator Leahy now or resign your seat! Shumar and Feinstein RESIGN TODAY.

Signed
30% Taxpayer

P.S  Shame on your colleague Tim Russert for UFO'ing
    Congressman Kucinich during a supposed
    Presidential Debate. Cheapened the whole nite to
    W's level.  Lost this family FOREVER.


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