ABOUT THE NEWS HOLE

It's the new award-winning blog* from the cast and crew of the award-winning television news hour** "Countdown with Keith Olbermann."

We heard about this whole "blogosphere" business from Tom DeLay, and came to the immediate realization that we too, "needed to become involved" in it.

So here it is. Covering the big news, the small news, medium-sized and irregular, The News Hole strives to bring everything you love or hate about Countdown to the internets.

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**The News Hole's "Best of the TV Awards" 2006



Michael Moore Tonight

Posted: Tuesday, November 06, 2007 3:15 PM by Countdown

Big show on tap for this evening...Keith will interview Michael Moore on the day his 'Sicko' DVD is released, and the day some states vote on their own versions of the S-CHIP children's healthcare plan. 

Also, we'll have all the latest on the Mukasey nomination (in case you need a refresher on the stakes we refer you to Keith's special comment from last night), the latest on the new death figures from Iraq that make this year the deadliest for American Troops there, the Rush Limbaugh comments that have everyone talking again, and the news that there's a new planet in another solar system that might be able to sustain life.  Big show...hope you can join us.

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Comments

I've never understood people who attack those who are weaker -- i.e. cowardly bullies

SOMETIMES YOU HAVE TO DOD WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO WHEN YOU ARE A LIBERAL

"DO AS I SAY NOT AS I DO"
               -William J Clinton

True Liberal (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 7:57 PM)

Anamoly:  I, too, admire James NY's ability to ignore the trolls. But, I actually look forward to their posts - the nuttier the better, because I know that you will respond to them.  Your answers are always entertaining.  I just wanted to tell you that I appreciate your wit and outrageousness.  You can make me smile on even (as Krista would call it) a "craptacular" day.  And Krista, thanks for the new adjective.  It's rapidly becoming popular in the venacular of mad world.

mad in Madtown (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 8:01 PM)

Every one who protested "Hillary Care" in the 90s was ranting and raving about those new fangled HMOs that were include and how evil they were and how dare Hillary promote HMOs for every one!!!  Imagine preventive care -- oh the horrors, the inhumanity. (note sarcasm here)

Well guess what, IF you are fortunate enough to still have health care coverage, you are likely to have an HMO.  Only now those HMOs are for profit and could care less if any one is reimbursed if they can find a way to deny coverage.  

I'm looking forward to when I qualify for Medicare so that I can stop playing games with the Health Insurance industry.  This private sector solution is evil.  

Carol, Long Valley NJ (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 8:01 PM)

"...black marketeers of World War III, excisors of telepathic sensitivity, osteopaths of the spirit, investigators of infractions denounced by bland paranoid chess players, servers of fragmentary warrants taken down in hebephrenic shorthand charging unspeakable mutilations of the spirit, bureaucrats of spectral departments, officials of unconstituted police states..." -William S. Burroughs "Naked Lunch"

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 8:06 PM)

Every one who protested "Hillary Care" in the 90s was ranting and raving about those new fangled HMOs that were include and how evil they were and how dare Hillary promote HMOs for every one!!!  Imagine preventive care -- oh the horrors, the inhumanity. (Note sarcasm here)

So are you saying if HMO's become socialized, you believe the customer care will improve??

If Hillary gets elected prepare to be disappointed, or take the easy way out and just blame Bush on it (works for most demoncrats today)

As long as we are at it lets bring back the gas lines of the Carter admin. That was a great cure for any energy crisis

Then again we could always triple taxes to pay for health care (then blame it on Bush)

True Liberal (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 8:19 PM)

A day without OJ is like a night without stars

O J (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 8:23 PM)

It's been a long time since I've seen "that" look and heard "that" voice.  Keith Olbermann's commentary almost defies description given it's passion, exactness and accuracy.  Jefferson argued that we get the government we deserve.  " Every government degenerates when trusted to the rulers of the people alone.  The people themselves are its only safe depositories (trust)."  I am so fed up with this President, and Congress that let him run amok, the election cannot come soon enough.  We deserve and must have better.  Think and Vote!

Ernest Smallis, Temecula, CA (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 8:45 PM)

 Today Dennis Kucinich stood up for Americans and our constitution.Chris Mattews rehashed the same old thread bare political stories,and pushed his book. Thank you Keith for giving this story air time. Go one up, please ask Dennis Kucinich to visit your program and give the guy a break.
     

Keith Nations Leadington Mo. (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 8:46 PM)

The Constitution gurantees the right to pursue happiness...it does not gurantee happiness.  Welcome to America were our fore fathers used sweat and tears to build a country.  They put an effort forth to get a return.  They did not expect something for nothing.

nate deitschman, rapid city, SD (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 8:51 PM)

Carol-
  You still have to pay for medicare (it's not medicaid)-I believe it's up to $93.00/month and it has deductibles and does not cover all billable expenses.  It also forces the providers to take what it deems allowable for the service provided. It will probably be $100/month in 2008.

                  Sorry for the bad news

S.Bolinger,St.Louis,MO (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 8:53 PM)

Yes it would be great to have health care for all citizens, BUT don't compare the US to countries like Germany. The taxes most Europran countries pay would sent the aversge US citizen into a fit. Like when I lived in Germany in the 90's, gas on the economy was almost $5.00 for 4 liters. So please try include important information like this in the interviews, not just pointing out the problems, heck ANYBODY can do that, let's hear some viable solutions Mr. Moore

Rodney Lenotn III Fayetteville NC (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 8:55 PM)

There not showing the 11 PM replay tonight on MSNBC in this market (at least according to the dish guide). The Post-Dispatch has stopped including a TV guide in its Sunday edition.  It will be back tomorrow at 11.  I think I'm gonna cry.  No daily show, no countdown.  At least there was good news from the library-Broken Government is on hold for me.

S.Bolinger,St.Louis,MO (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 8:59 PM)

You are all too angry and it is sad.

John Doe, Seattle, Wash. (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 8:59 PM)

mad in Madtown (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 8:01 PM) Wow, thanks! I'm humbled that a silly little word I made up is, I guess, resonating. If it makes the dictionary, you think I'll get royalties? ;D

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 8:06 PM) And, Mr. Turner, you always know how to get my attention! WSB is spinning in his grave.

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 9:07 PM)

This is less a comment than a mother's plea.  
   Last night, as I watched Keith's fabulously moving (as usual) special comments with my 22 year old son, he turned to me and asked why I was crying.  I told him I was mourning the loss of what I knew as MY country.  I told him that the mere notion that MY country could be debating whether or not torture was acceptable in an "ends justifies the means" argument, was unthinkable to me.  I told him that Keith's comments echoed my staunch belief that this WAS a great country, and that by virtue of the Constitution, it had the possibility of being a great country once again.  
   My son informed me that he did not recall a time when he felt our government could be trusted, and defined himself as an anarchist.  As heartsick as his words made me, I can completely understand his feelings.  I tried to tell him how our fore-fathers intended this country to be better... to be more...
And I felt impotent in my attempts to pursuade him.
  The current regime has destroyed all trust, and while I may be old enough to remember when our country allowed freedoms to protest the wrongs of unjust leaders, he has no such history.  I am afraid for our future, and I am terrified for his.  This IS still America.  I AM an American, and although those in power would silence me, I despise the changes I have seen happening in my lifetime.  
   Please God, let the mothers of this country recognize what is happening to the ideals that created this nation.  
   Please God, let the mothers of this country stand up to the tyranny that has invaded our democracy.
   Please God, let the mothers speak out so the world will know that America is still the strong nation it once was; able and willing to defeat even the enemies within that would trample the principles held so dearly by our founders.  
   Please God... help us restore this democracy to what it once was; to what is should be, to what our children deserve.
   I don't know how to make my son believe that things can be better.  I don't know how to help him work for change any more.  I don't know how to make him believe that the change is possible. The "learned helplessness" that has become the legacy of the Bush administration as been carried out too well.
   Please God, stop these men before they can do more harm.

Margaret Bowser, Omaha, NE (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 10:14 PM)

Yes it would be great to have health care for all citizens, BUT don't compare the US to countries like Germany. The taxes most Europran countries pay would sent the aversge US citizen into a fit. Like when I lived in Germany in the 90's, gas on the economy was almost $5.00 for 4 liters. So please try include important information like this in the interviews, not just pointing out the problems, heck ANYBODY can do that, let's hear some viable solutions Mr. Moore
Rodney Lenotn III Fayetteville NC (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 8:55 PM)
But thats exactly what the demoncrat's strategy is. raising taxes solves everything!!!

True Liberal (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 10:33 PM)

Since I do not have health insurance and I desperately need to go to the doctor for some physical symptoms that are concerning me, I think we need healthcare for all. If I go to the free clinic and am diagnosed with an illness, then it will be a "pre-existing condition".

I know people say that it will over tax us, I say that when I see all the crap going on in Hollywood and corporations giving millions of dollars in bonuses to their CEO's, it is time to tax those S.O.B.s. I have been over to Europe too. I see what their living conditons are like. They are NOT suffering. They have great public transportation, and do not need to drive so much. Plus their economies are stronger then ours. Please stop the hysteria! 42 million of your fellow citizens' lives are at stake. Think of that number next time Shrub wants to spend billions on a war, and exploits "protecting" our lives in order to get it.

KarenS., VA (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 10:37 PM)

OK , here we go again. What purpose does it do to bring an 18 year old up to capital hill to testify on global warming. Scientific experts can't even agree , now this young woman blubbering all over herself is supposed to do what ? We're losing our food, our homes ?  How about losing your dignity. You had the freaking self proclaimed Mr Global Warming already testify, he won the freaking Nobel Prize , and this kid is up there to do what ? I guess the liberals on the committee didn'y buy Gore's bullshit and had to have this kid , who 2 years ago never heard of global warming , confirm it for them . Un freaking believable.

What's next , why not have a 6 year old boy testify that blow jobs are not sex. Would be more convincing than B Clinton  

Larry Charleston, SC (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 11:07 PM)

I thought Michael Moore hit the nail on the head...people will have to keep smoking to pay for children's health care in Oregon.  He and I agree...what a stupid idea.

Kitty (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 11:53 PM)

Thank you Keith for last nights comment, LOVED IT!! Very passionate. I wish there was a way to make the rest of America hear what you have to say just once. Maybe that 23% of morons who still, to spite evidence believe in Bush, will wake up and smell the coffee or the white house BS which ever they prefer before Bush takes us into another war for nothing, killing our kids and raping the treasury, because "he can" has to stop!..Will someone impeach him before he can do more harm?.

L.Lawson---Usher (Sent Wednesday, November 07, 2007 12:42 AM)

Adelaide Tuesday 5:59 PM..Adelaide, just read your story about your son. So sad. I am so sorry for your lose. Thank you for sharing your story so that others can see how very necessary the SCHIP program is not only for the kids who so desperately need it, but for the family that is left behind.

Take care Adelaide..

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:25 AM)

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 5:13 PM)

To be honest, I really don't pay attention to Michael Moore.  I know that he has made alot of money off of Farenheit 9-11, and I never chose to watch it.  He has been generally linked to the far left wing of the democratic party.  My feeling is KO is really starting to cater to that sector of America.  This seems to be a conscious decisions.  Can't really comment on MM.  I tend to agree with you that the timing of having him on, while I know that he has another won of his movies coming out, after the news about Rosie may backfire on MSNBC.

Kevin of NJ (Sent Wednesday, November 07, 2007 7:47 AM)

"WOW!! A brilliant "Special Comment" and now Michael Moore??!! You are spoiling me Keith; as I believe Michael Moore is a genius!!"

Pam, I never really new how sick you were until this! By the way, Kucinich is wasting time with this process just to keep the lunatics excited, it'll never go!  Come up for air people!

Tom, DC (Sent Wednesday, November 07, 2007 8:07 AM)

Pam (6:13 PM Post): I don't know if I can explain in a short enough comment to get posted. But I will try. The reason I asked for junebug's and Kevin, NJ's opinion of Moore has to do with perception versus that of removing this administration, and replacing it with a more progressive yet responsible group of people. junebug I believe is a true conservative and who neither blindly follows one side or the other.  Kevin although on the right can be persuaded to move more to the center if given legitimate and credible reasons by legitimate and credible people. I don't know if this makes sense but in order to move forward in the next election along with thousands of others who fall into these groups, including thousands of independents like myself, we need as many people as possible from the left, independents and the right to get on the band wagon for the futrue. And in order to do that (just my opinion) we need to be careful not to give too much attention to persons (left or right) that are perceived by one side or the other as being extremist. Don't get me wrong, I am not saying that Michael Moore is not an intelligent guy that does not have some good messages to share. But I am saying that of the many people we hope to seek support from  (including those who may lean a little more right or independents, and that we need) many perceive Michael Moore (true or not) as a hollywood fruticake who is slovenly and a divider. Just the mention of his name angers many people. His relationship with the American people is similar to that of Hillarys, a love/hate relationship. I was just suggesting that Keith's messages have a better chance of adding people to the progressive tent if he were to give more attention to those perceived as professional and credible and less to those who are perceived as hollywoodish (for lack of a better word) and divisive. People can agree or disagree. These are just my thoughts. But we have to remember that many, many Americans use perception to determine a person's creibility and Michael Moore, although perhaps being very smart and having much to say, does not present the best of role models for a political cause.

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:33 AM)

As someone of mixed Native and European blood, I am sensitive to the casual way those who are not, throw around a term like 'Eskimo'. While I am from a Plains group, I consider all Originals to be closely related to me. While the Canadian Originals detest that term, the Alaskan Yupik and Inuit have a tenuous relationship with it, the context of the speakers' words determining the reaction. In the case of the young Original woman who reacted emotionally to the deterioration of her tribal lands, the attack on her by so-called 'Conservatives', has placed that context in the realm of Racism. I consider the words of those 'Anticonservationists' to be Racist, and would appreciate that in the future, they be censored, if not barred entirely, from further discussions. This would eliminate the possibilty of this forum turning further into a 'Racist Platform'.

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa (Sent Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:59 AM)

B. A. Buddusky (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 7:27 PM)

Thanks dear friend!! Great video!!

PEACE!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Wednesday, November 07, 2007 11:24 AM)

S.Bolinger,St.Louis,MO (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 8:53 PM)

$93/month would be cheaper than the private sector health care, through my employer, that I'm currently paying for.  

Carol, Long Valley NJ (Sent Wednesday, November 07, 2007 11:49 AM)

Pam:43pm Tesday, Thanks Pam,sorry for all the typos just wrote it quickly before I changed my mind as so personal.ButI wanted to share first hand what health care can do with high premiums,high deductibles,and out of pocket expenses. Ryan is with me every day as I remember as he asked in laughter.

You and your daughter have my emapthy from trolls on this site. Keep fighting, principles above personalities.

Adelaide, CA (Sent Wednesday, November 07, 2007 12:05 PM)

True Liberal (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 8:19 PM)

Then again you could always continue to post ignorant assumptions full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.

Timmy, Milwaukee WI (Sent Wednesday, November 07, 2007 12:12 PM)

Laura Wed 3:25am, Thanks for your empathy Laura.As I wrote in answer to Pam's loving comments, I wrote it not to bum everyone out but to point out first hand my own experience witth the failure of the Health Care system in this country.
But to try and insure children by putting a tax on cigarettes to me is just insane.Okay parents smoke away pollute your kids lungs,and then get health insurance to treat them for asthma, bronchits,COPD, pulmonary disease.  
Laura you know living in ths state how many cities are outlawing smoking.In Belmont one can not smoke in their own condo or apartment, or outside in parks or outside work environments.Oakland is trying to pass a similar law. In Menlo Park one can smoke in their apartment but not on their patio.Isn't there a city down your and Pam's way that banned smoking in the entire city limits?
Many corporations in this state and in the midwest to cut down on health benfits have put in wellness programs for over weight employees and smokers.  They will not hire smokers and have in fact fired people for not suceeding in their non smoking programs.(60 Minutes covered it last year)
As it becomes more apparent the harm of second hand smoke is and how hard it is becoming for smokers to smoke, making so many quit,to put a tax on cigarettes for health care for children is just ludicrous. Perhaps the liberal state of Oregon saw the absurdity of this law.

But I agree with you completely Laura we need S-CHIP

Thanks Laura

Adelaide,Sunnyvale, CA (Sent Wednesday, November 07, 2007 2:35 PM)

Larry (11:07 PM Post): Read the post from Margaret 10:14 PM. Rather than criticize our youth for getting involved or those adults who welcome their involvement we should be celebrating the same. This does not mean that these kids have to be experts or even correct in their positions. But the important thing Larry is that they are involved. Too many of our kids today lack purpose. This results in cynicism that results in apathy, crime, dropping out of school, lack of trust in adults and a high suicide rate among the teens of our nation. Rather than criticzing the involvement of our kids in the issues we all face today we should be encouraging their involvement if not for anything else but to give them purpose in life. And if we do that then one day some of these kids will grow up to actually solve many of the problems they will be facing as their generation reaches adulthood. They are our legacy Larry. So whether it is the issue of global warming, health care, foreign policy, improving worn out bridges, saving social security or perhaps even becoming the greatest of all Presidents, none of this is going to happen in the future unless we begin paying more attention to providing our kids with purpose rather then ignoring them as we the adults continue to argue and bitch at one another. The only thing our kids know is that they damn well do not want to be like us. And I wonder where they came up with that bit of very well chosen knowledge.    

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:09 PM)

Larry Charleston, SC (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 11:07 PM)

...maybe the Democrats do it so the Republicans will dig themselves into their political graves faster by shamelessly attacking them?  Seriously, how do you live with yourself?  Were you raised to believe that all poor people/minorities choose to be that way?  You talk like they're the scum of the earth, with a haughty superiority born from having wealth you've neither earned or deserve.

All people are equal, 'Larry,' and you would do well to show some respect.  You'd be surprised how much you'd get in return.

Kevin, Lincoln, NE (Sent Wednesday, November 07, 2007 3:34 PM)

Michael Moore is taking some time off from the kibbutz to visit the wind mill, eh?  OMG, you people with the coolaid just never stop do you?  Health care needs some help, sure enough -- But you dopes really think that help is coming from people like Michael Moore?   He's your point man on this issue?  lol...dopes

Woody (Sent Wednesday, November 07, 2007 4:15 PM)

Laura, Wed 3:25am I wrote a long post  to you which has not been posted.But thank you for empathy. I did not write it to bum people out but show from my own personal experience the failure of Health Care in this country.Hopefully my post and about the topic of cigarette taxes for healthcare(an absurd idea) will eventually post

Adelaide, Sunnyvale,CA (Sent Wednesday, November 07, 2007 4:25 PM)

Carol-
 A lot of doctors won't accept Medicare because they control the amount allowable for the service provided, and you can get stuck paying thousands of what they will not pay of the allowable amount.  Good Luck.

S.Bolinger,St.Louis,MO (Sent Wednesday, November 07, 2007 4:52 PM)

True Liberal (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 8:19 PM)

Then again you could always continue to post ignorant assumptions full of sound and fury, signifying nothing.
Timmy, Milwaukee WI (Sent Wednesday, November 07, 2007 12:12 PM)

If any of these comments meant truly anything than they would,'t be waisted on the countdown blog right?

True Liberal (Sent Wednesday, November 07, 2007 4:52 PM)

Larry Charleston, SC (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 11:07 PM)

Every time that I think you could not possibly descend any lower into the bowels of inhumanity -- you manage to do it.  You are hands down the most disgusting troll on this site.

You sicken me.  If there really is a moderator, your post would be pulled and this is the first time that I've written that.  

Carol, Long Valley NJ (Sent Wednesday, November 07, 2007 5:27 PM)

To the Moderator. Would you please do something about the Conservative Conceptual Pedophile who has posted on this blog. Don't enable that individual again. Thank you.

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa (Sent Wednesday, November 07, 2007 6:36 PM)

To Laura: you require a huge dose of realism.  The death figures from Iraq bother you? I served in Vietnam in 1969 - 10,000 American servicemen were killed that year. In WWII, over 400,000 of our soldiers died.  So get real and grow up. It's a war in Iraq and that means people are going to die. You "progressives" are a silly bunch of asswipes, saying PEACE to each other (like Pam does). PEACE, LOVE brother! What a bunch of dopes.

Pud (Sent Wednesday, November 07, 2007 6:37 PM)

Adelaide,Sunnyvale, CA (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 5:59 PM)

I am sorry about your loss.  MK

MK, Indianapolis (Sent Wednesday, November 07, 2007 7:30 PM)

You and your daughter have my emapthy from trolls on this site. Keep fighting, principles above personalities.


Adelaide, CA (Sent Wednesday, November 07, 2007 12:05 PM)


WOW,  just read this post as well as your previous post regarding the passing of your dear son.  I do believe I have heard that comment about principles above personalities before, sounds like a good idea.  I needed to be reminded of that,  Thanks!  Sign me ,  a friend of Bill.  

MK, Indianapolis (Sent Wednesday, November 07, 2007 7:40 PM)

You go, Keith!  Give 'em hell!  Bush-Cheney & Company been giving America nothing BUT hell for nearly 7 years now.

Keep up the good work!

Mark B., Los Altos, CA (Sent Wednesday, November 07, 2007 8:11 PM)

News Hole: This post (Larry Charleston, SC Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 11:07 PM) far exceeds anything that should be allowed to be posted on this blog.  

Larry has insulted probably every person on this site (and their children, as he has mine) if he disagrees with their opinions; however, with this comment, he has far surpassed his habitual bigoted, disgusting and immoral verbal assaults!!  This comment should have been blocked!!

This is exceedingly offensive and the News Hole moderator (wherever he/she was most of today, definitely not moderating) should never have allowed this!!


Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Wednesday, November 07, 2007 9:38 PM)

PAM..I forgot to thank you for the great Presidential quotes. They all say so much about what an administration should be and what goals are. Unfortunately, El Presidente will not have any quotes that make sense and certainly the only goal this administration has ever had was to take over the world and the oil.

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Thursday, November 08, 2007 2:51 AM)

Pud Wednesday 6:37 PM..Pud or Crude I should say. Who are you and what do you think you know about me? Any death in war is sad for me. Listen pal, I was around during the Vietnam war, lost many friends and a fiance. Don't tell me about a dose of reality. I've had my share. 1969 is when I got my dose of reality as a young woman having lost my best friend and the man I would have married. You were one of the lucky ones to come back..and you have the nerve to spew crap like this. This war is wrong.. as was Vietnam. 58,000 total dead..a disgrace. So I suggest you go wipe your a** and think about what you say before you say it.

Laura "mad as hell at this guy" in Los Angeles (Sent Thursday, November 08, 2007 3:05 AM)

Adelaide Wednesday 2:35 PM..thanks Adelaide for your post. Yes, I think it's the City of L.A. just banned smoking in your own apartment because smoke can travel to other areas within the complex to non-smokers. It's almost impossible to find a place to take a break anymore. Thank goodness I quit decades ago. Lots of people are starting to quit, so the tax on cigarettes would be an insane measure, as you said.

Take care friend..

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Thursday, November 08, 2007 3:15 AM)

THIRD ATTEMPT TO POST

K. Collins, USN (Sent Tuesday, November 06, 2007 4:54 PM)

As everyone should, the crisis in Pakistan is particularly alarming considering a) they have nuclear weapons and b) they have a radical islamic sect withing the country.  The other wildcard is OBL is hiding in the mountains.  So what should the foreign policy be for the United States.

First off, we need to understand how the government works in Pakistan.  Musharoff is part of a military which basically runs the country.  The military is self sufficient and does not rely on the government for funding. Benazir Bhutto has come into the picture, and it appears that Musharoff is concerned that his rule will be overthrown, like it has in the past.  That is the cause of his overreaction.  One has to remember that Pakistan is one of the most corrupt governments around, and PM Bhutto was well known for its corrupt practices.  Her husband was indicted for heroin smuggling.  So the situation is very difficult.

What is clear is that it is important for the US to insist that democracy be restored as soon as possible.  What would have been a better outcome would have been sharing of power deal between Musharoff and Bhutto.  But that does not seem plausible at this point.  There is a power struggle going on right now.  Our hope is Al Qaeda does not capitalize on this unstability.  OBL is very popular in that country

What is the US interest?  We cannot allow the radical jihadist, and perhaps Al Qaeda/Taliban to take over the government and also obtain control of the nuclear weapons.  We need to be firm with Musharoff but behind the scenes insist on restored democracy and but support his stance against the terrorists.  That has to be our Number 1 concern right now.  Pakistan can not allow an opening for the terrorists to exploit the perceived weakness in its government.  It is clear, that Musharoff is unfortunately our best bet out of a bad outcomes.

Kevin of NJ (Sent Thursday, November 08, 2007 5:02 AM)

Pud (6:37 PM Post): Would it not have been nice if our government had realized their errors and the frutility of that conflict prior to losing 10,000+ soldiers in Nam? Don't you think that people like Laura want our kids out of Iraq so we do not reach that 10,000+ mark. Do you think our involvement in Vietnam was worth the 10,000 lost in 69? If not then why would you think that the loss of 3000+ and thousands more maimed and injured has been worth it in Iraq regardless of the time frame in which the losses and injuries have occurred? Why are you so bitter Pud? It is clear in your post that you are. Is it because your service in Nam was never really celebrated or recognized as it should have been by this country upon your return home, or while serving and putting your life on the line others at home were running around with beads around their neck, saying Peace and holding rallies that criticized the war? I'd like to know Pud.      

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Thursday, November 08, 2007 9:07 AM)

MK WED 7:40pm, Thanks for the empathy. Again I shared it to show how ineffective health care is in this system. Loved your second post.Just say I am a friend of Lois.

Adelaide, Sunnyvale, CA (Sent Thursday, November 08, 2007 10:43 AM)

Laura "mad as hell at this guy" in Los Angeles (Sent Thursday, November 08, 2007 3:05 AM)

Sorry for your loss.  It certainly sheds new light on why you feel the way you do.  You earned the right to feel that way.  

Kevin of NJ (Sent Thursday, November 08, 2007 1:26 PM)



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