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Countdown Wednesday: Tale of the Tapes

Posted: Wednesday, December 12, 2007 8:59 PM by Countdown
Filed Under:

More Spies Lies & Videotape: The essence of Obstruction of Justice...The definition of when destroying tapes showing the CIA torturing an Al-Qaeda minion on a water-board is a George Tenet-style slam-dunk crime...Is whether the materials destroyed, were relevant to an on-going legal case. Thus our fifth story on the Countdown is unusually clear for this nearly seven-year "Fog of Bush": the revelation that not one but two US District Judges issued orders in June and July of 2005 that the government had to not destroy any evidence relating to just the mistreatment of detainees at Gitmo...And the C-I-A destroyed some of that evidence in November of 2005. The inevitable loophole in this Presidency of Loopholes? The detainees were not yet at Gitmo when they were tortured, and videotaped.

The Truth on Torture:  A lot of people have said a lot of crazy things since 9/11... But could a United States Senator have really just compared water-boarding... to swimming the back-stroke? Why the desperation on the Right to convince everybody, right now, that water-boarding is the best?

ODDBALL: A mouse that aint afraid of a kitty cat...and the spider pig flies over London.

The Right Stuff: It was the final GOP debate before the Iowa Caucuses. The final chance for candidates to stand out from the pack. And instead, in our third story on the Countdown, substance gave way to showmanship as a man almost no-one knew was running for President joined the eight other candidates on stage. Former MSNBC host Alan Keyes. The guy who once did a show here in which he looked around the studio as he spoke instead of just at the camera, leading some viewers to say to themselves "I'm the one in the middle, Buddy."

Barney Cam:  Evidence tonight that the writers strike... now in its sixth week... is taking a toll, even in our nation's capitol. Our number two story tonight... Keeping tabs... Barney-Cam is back... and badder than ever.

WORST PERSON IN THE WORLD: Bill-O, Mitt Romney and Fred Thompson vie for tonight's top honors.

Fears for Spears:  Britney Spears is a fugitive from justice. Ok, not exactly...but this morning she did stiff the lawyers for her ex-husband Kevin Federline...who were set to depose her in the couple's ongoing custody battle. Her excuse for skipping the deposition? High anxiety...and I don't mean the Mel Brooks movie.  Our number one story: the tense stand-off at the Britney Spears Mansion. And when I say "stand-off" I mean, she's not feeling at all well.

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Clinton: Impeached by House of Representatives of one count of "false, perjurious, and misleading testimony" and one count of obstruction of justice (impeachment is the functional equivalent of a grand jury indictment). Following trial in the U.S. Senate, acquitted of all charges.

First of all, Impeachment isn’t a Criminal Court, but a means to remove an Official from Office. Bill Clinton wasn’t off the hook until he plead bargained.

Washington -- Less than 24 hours before leaving office, President Clinton struck a deal Friday with the independent counsel to avoid indictment and admitted he gave false testimony about his relationship with Monica Lewinsky. "I tried to walk a fine line between acting lawfully and testifying falsely, but I now recognize that I did not fully accomplish this goal and that certain of my responses to questions about Ms. Lewinsky were false,"
Atlanta Journal Constitution: January 20, 2001

David Molinero (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:01 PM)

DAMN, that Barney's a smart little pooch.

I followed his lead when I saw Michael Musto was on next.

Allspice (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:02 PM)

Twisted Krista is feeling especially riled up tonight; you've been warned! But first, a brief detour of something that wasn't covered tonight. Ike Turner died today. What he did to Tina was truly despicable, but someone somewhere cared about him, so R.I.P.

And, I usually don't address the coverage of the Hollywood bimbo crowd too much, but I bet Britney doesn’t even know who Mel Brooks is!! No wonder she’s so screwed up!! Sit her down to watch BLAZING SADDLES, then she’ll feel a whole lot better about life!

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:11 PM)

What a night! We had Richard Wolffe, John Dean, AND Rachel Maddow. Talk about your trifectas!

OK, for all you Neocon nut-job trolls who like to “bless us” with your presence and say that Keith Olbermann only attacks Republicans,insert a big ‘ol twisted Bronx raspberry here and watch what Keith had to say about Republicans AND Democrats in the segment with John Dean, then crawl back into the dark hole from whence you came!!

3 judges ordered no destruction of tapes or any other evidence?! In the oodles and oodles of prelaw classes I took in college, this situation seems a pretty clear case of obstruction of justice to me or contempt or something. Wasn’t obstruction of justice one of the charges against Nixon?

Poor Richard Wolffe went to a Christmas party at the Dictator-Wanna-Be’s place?! I hope DICK doesn’t have a live tree or any mistletoe; they would probably wither and die around him.  

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:19 PM)

OK, let’s add Sen Kit Bond (R) Missouri to the waterboarding list! Put up or shut up!! Personally, I’d prefer he’d shut up. And, if we waterboard “the big head,” he’ll suddenly become reliable? Well, let’s bring it on!!

Whose idea was it to have presidential candidate debates in the middle of the freakin’ work day?! And, did I hear correctly that today “America’s Mayor” admitted that everyone in NYC knew he was screwing around on his wife with their tax money?!  If Gene Robinson had an “acid flash” today when he saw Mr. Keyes, you must’ve been some BAD ACID, honey!!

And, finally, can GWB and Dick be junior park rangers instead of the jobs they currently hold? PLEASE?! Oh, if park rangers are “scientists and historians,” GWB and DICK are woefully under-qualified.

I told you I was riled up! Twistin' away into the night...

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:30 PM)

#1. Britter is well within her rights, according to the California Trash Goddess Code that states, " Should the Tiniest Thing go wrong, said Trash Goddess is allowed to consider the Entire Day, as ruined. #2. Disappointing, since most of us were expecting to see Dubya's Colonoscopy Video. #3. Keyes does one of the more convincing impersonations of a Dubya/Cheney Conjoined Head. #4. What the Senator is saving for tomorrow, is that Water-Boarding is the latest thing in Sexual Foreplay. #5. What I want to know is, was Dubya known as "President Loophole" before or after his Colonoscopy?

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:10 PM)

#1. Britter is well within her rights, according to the California Trash Goddess Code that states, " Should the Tiniest Thing go wrong, said Trash Goddess is allowed to consider the Entire Day, as ruined. #2. Disappointing, since most of us were expecting to see Dubya's Colonoscopy Video. #3. Keyes does one of the more convincing impersonations of a Dubya/Cheney Conjoined Head. #4. What the Senator is saving for tomorrow, is that Water-Boarding is the latest thing in Sexual Foreplay. #5. What I want to know is, was Dubya known as "President Loophole" before or after his Colonoscopy?

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:11 PM)

Just a note...

Your show is very entertaining, informative, and I think truthful.

Rare!!

Can you help Joe on "Morning Joe" see the light?


Patrick Peace, Pinehurst, NC.
patrickpax@earthlink.net

Patrick Peace, Pinehurst, NC. (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:13 PM)

Molinero,

So, at least, GWB has 2 wrong-doing events.  Finally, a Neo-Con w/o excuses or ducking the issue.  I've got to applaud your post.  Hey, BTW, I'm a left of center moderate; and if a Dem drops a twosie, I'll bust his chops too.

Talvenada, Phila., Penna. (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:18 PM)

Could you please stop showing the waterboarding tape from Current TV when reporting / discussing the government's torture/waterboarding?  I think we have a good idea of what waterboarding is and that the Current demonstration likely doesn't do justice to the practice.  

In general, I think the show would be improved with less extraneous video - nothing is added seeing the Bush/Perino walk from the helicopter nightly.

Thanks!  Big fan.

Kevin Maher, Geneva, IL (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:56 PM)

I really feel sorry for Britney, Paris, and other such Celebs as society watches their downward spiral just waiting for the News of their tragic death.

I just don't see why people want to look on as these people are flushing their lives down a toilet. And I hope that they can pull out of their death spin and find peace in this life before it's too late.

David Molinero (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 11:17 PM)

Looks like even Barney doesn't want to be photographed next to this doofus.  Animals are soooo smart.  What's the message in the Christmas video - See the National Parks soon before we trash them too?

The arrogance of this criminal administration continues and their enablers to astound me.  The only thing that drops my jaw lower is the continued failure of the Democrats to stand up and demand truth, justice and the American way.  What's with the stupid Senator and his "back strokes" comments - and what's wrong with Senators who don't demand the withdrawal of that offensive and wrong comparison.

Gonzo as Lawyer of the Year?   Whaaaaat?  Are they nuts?  Who got paid off for this one?

Alan Keyes - just as nutzy as the rest of the Rethugs.  Looks like another fine addition to the bunch: 9/11 Guliani, Fred "looks ready for the grave" Thompson, John McPanderer, Mitt Wrongley, Aw Shucks Hucabee and the rest.  I need more popcorn for the end of this horror movie.  Is anyone taking these lunatics seriously?

Sue, West Allis, Wisconsin (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 12:35 AM)

Oh do I wish Molly Ivans and Ida Tarbell were alive today to team up and take this administration down!!

What has happened to today's journalists? Throughout the course of this administration, they have insulted the brave and courageous such as Molly Ivans and Ida Tarbell who laid the groundwork for them!!

PEACE!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 12:39 AM)

I'm sorry about my last post but it's possible the coup has already taken place?Sort of feels like no representation.Seems like only one thing is going on and its not good and it's happening to us and our country and our families.Thank you Congress way to go dudes,way to protect and uphold the Constitution.Party
on Pelosi their only dying because you wont impeach.Committee on dudes,Committee on.Radical man Radical.

B.A. Buddusky (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 1:11 AM)

I thought this might interest you. Since the special coments about the president. Our cable goes out at 12:05. My husband works till 11;30, so we watch at 12:00. From now on I will be tapying the show. It's late, sorry for any miss spelling. Keep up the good work, I often applaud during the show. Debbie Creasy    

Deborah Creasy, Bloomsburg, Pa. (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 1:27 AM)

5--The torture videotapes.  I have my own theory as to why the tapes were destroyed.  The entire rationale for waterboarding in the first place is that there is no other way to get accurate information.  We also know (in our guts, anyway,) that a person who is being tortured will say whatever he thinks the torturer wants to hear--anything to stop the abuse.  What if the tapes show the person being waterboarded giving out totally incorrect information?  That would kind-of blow a major hole in the whole torture rationale, wouldn't it?  Not to mention being down-right embarrassing; and revealing an entire new category of administrative lies.

Kathryn Price, M.D. (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 1:51 AM)

Mr. Scully --

I don’t know where you got our ideas about Iowa, but I can tell you that you may be making a mistake worthy of the biggest ninny you know. Go back and read more about Iowa, and then rethink your position about Hillary. Her biggest problem has always been a need for a steady base of support. When she first found herself standing alone in the field of candidates, she tried to get along with everybody, including the folks in Iowa, in hopes of finding enough support to stay in the race. But trust me, Scully, Hillary has always understood Iowa, and Hillary is not fickle.  She ran into trouble when she mistakenly thought she had rediscovered her base.  To her needy mind, the signs seemed to be there. While exploring this possibility, she also found some unlooked-for opposition, ironically in Iowa, among other places. Distracted and discouraged, she was just about to drop out of the race, really, when she got a very welcome endorsement from an old friend.  As fate would have it, the timing tricked Hillary into thinking the endorsement had been there all along, and was merely being reinforced to further protect her interests.  Being Hillary, however, she didn’t listen to her advisors.  She eventually was clever enough to discover her mistake, but being in the public venue, she could not fix it without hurting her friend. Thus, she hurt her friend anyway. You may have noticed that Hillary made a brief return trip to Iowa the other day, taking her friend along for support.  This was no accident, Scully. Loyalty has never been Hillary’s problem. Stupidity maybe. But if Humphrey Bogart had asked her to meet him in Paris, she would have met him in Paris.  You’re entitled to your own opinion, Scully, but if you want the truth all you have to do is ask.  ann.anomaly@yahoo.com. I’m also at Aunt Ornery’s.  Just look up.  I’ve asked you before, you know.  If only.

Anna Molly (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 3:56 AM)

Water-boarding is the backstroke? Sure, if a suicide bomb is the same as a firecracker. Sorry, that's a depressing analogy. How about, Sure, if a space shuttle launch is the same as grandma on a Sunday drive.

*sigh* What an idiot.

Anyway, to new news, anyone else reacting to the AP report about a leak that Dem leaders are caving to the most disliked POTUS in history? Again! How can the dems repeatedly allow this prez to frame the debate? If Gates lays off 100,000 people, it's because he chose to do that rather than scale back the Iraq war, not because funding wasn't approved. Please.

That's my rant and I'm sticking to it.

D, Woodstock, GA (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 8:13 AM)

Mr. Scully --

“Maid-Rite.”  I get it now.  Tasty.  Sheesh.  Why would you want to hang out with such a ninny?  If you happen to see another post you don’t quite understand, join the club, and ignore all of it except the part about your candidate’s always understanding Iowa, and not being fickle.  (And the e-mail address if you want to use it.)  While the rest of it is true (including the part about Paris), the main point is that Iowa was never your candidate’s problem, except for the small issue your candidate made right that day you attended the campaign rally with her.  The other thing was an innocent mistake involving another blue state and a misunderstanding over a dinghy.  The ninny rides again.  You were right, as you always are, Scully.  Obama/Edwards, for sure.  

Anna Molly (still trying to get it right) (: (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 8:45 AM)

Backwater boy --

Did some additional research on those movies.  I know I asked you if I could borrow your copy of the one about those folks in the woods, but I think I’ll skip it for now, if you don’t mind.  From the description, I think I caught part of it one day on a classic movie channel.  Not exactly MY cup of tea.  (Are you really as smart as you appear to be, backwater boy?  Keep it up.  I like smart.)

Anna Molly (in awe, maybe, but not petrified of you, backwater boy) (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 9:10 AM)

Thank you, Keith for the wonderful job on story #5!  It was amazing to watch and see the timeline you set forth.

Has anyone else noticed that every time Mr. Wolffe is on, when he is greeting Keith, he closes his eyes and bows his head a little when he says, "Hello Keith?"  I keep waiting for him to change it up a little, but he hasn't yet.

Sarah, Tucson, AZ (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 9:13 AM)

"The insult is the last refuge of the out-argued"
-- John 'Birdman' Bryant

There are 404 days until the end of this regime on 1/20/2009
There are 389 days until the end of this Congress on 1/5/2009 ???
There are 327 days until election day -- 11/4/2008

The first Caucus/Primary hasn't happened yet!  Evaluate ALL the candidates and think wisely before you vote.
And we are counting down.

Carol, Long Valley NJ (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 9:38 AM)

I was almost willing to sit though the Britney segment, just as white noise while doing needlework.  However, when Musto was introduced, I turned the TV off.  Ugh.  Silence is far better.

Is anyone else going through Jon Stewart withdrawal, or is it just me?  

Carol, Long Valley NJ (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 9:49 AM)

I must second the praise for this show...I've seen Countdown a couple times at my parents' house - I don't watch much tv at home - and am frankly surprised to see a news/commentary program that is (honestly) critical of the administration on a major tv network - thank you.

The best thing you do with your show is to remind us of the timeline of events. The Bush white house relies on Joe Public forgetting everything that's happened and that's been said within a couple weeks, which allows them to change their story on a regular basis.  Thank you for your efforts! and by the way, the show's entertaining :)

Dylan, Bayside, CA (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:01 AM)

Geez! - My senator thinks waterboarding is akin to the backstroke!?! Puh-leeze!! Let's "backstroke" him & then see what he says!

Keith - many thanx for the Tallulah Bankhead story! I laughed so hard I got the hiccups! Please have Norman Lloyd on again ASAP!

As usual, kudos to Krista, Steve in CF, anomaly, and many of you regulars here, (I finally feel like I'm in with the "cool kids"!) Pam - I wholeheartedly agree about Molly Ivins, I truly miss her wit and wisdom!!

Keep up the good work everybody! We've got a hard  year ahead of us!!

Laura in St. Louis (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:14 AM)

I also find it amusing to read these post by liberals who don't have any common sense what so ever.....CA, Jen, Kevin, Pam....you know who else you are.

Mark, AZ (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 4:49 PM)

He's starting to target people specifically without so much as trying to refute our statements.  This seems to be the knee-jerk reaction to a neo-con getting caught with his foot jammed in his mouth.

Kevin, Lincoln, NE (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:16 AM)

Kevin Maher- I must disagree about showing the waterboarding video.  I think if our government is going to do something as reprehensible as torture.  We should have to watch it everyday.  Maybe then as a country we would make enough noise to drown out the lazy, stupid, cowardly men who are saying torture is somehow a reasonable practice for a civilized society.  The bush administration depends on the uninformed consent of the American people.  

jen,il (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:17 AM)

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22226310/

Read it and weep; yet another fine example of the Moron-in-Chief's complete incompetence. Shrub is more concerned about hurting Big Business (read between the lines) than he is about actually doing something to reverse Global Warming. The United States is the ONLY holdout amongst several nations who are trying to curb dangerous emissions. Just another way the Rethugs are trying to force all of America to accept their Neanderthal views. The world knows that a bunch of unprincipled morons are running the U.S. government. When are the 24%ers going to finally get it?

LT in MD (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:21 AM)

It's good to see even Barney doesn't listen to bush anymore.  The republicans on the hill could learn alot from that dog.  

jen,il (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:22 AM)

Anna Molly,

Books.

Current:

The World is Flat - Thomas Freidman
Ceasar - Adrian Goldsworthy
Crusade in Europe - Dwight Eisenhower

Recent:

Engineering in the Ancient World - G. Landels
Uncle John's Bathroom Reader
The Biology of Doom - Ed Regis

Probably not your cup of tea, either.

Soon we will have to return to the more serious game of verbal gut-punching and groin-kicking.

BTW, no shower this week, yet.

FEELTHY PEEG (aka PUD) - Laguna Niguel (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:26 AM)

G.Frank: I am in total agreement with you about Oprah. I for one do believe Obama's rise in the polls in Iowa and NH are a direct result of Oprah's support. And add to that, Bill Clinton. He is hurting Hillary in those states. However, nationally the polls are still showing Hillary leading Obama  by a wide margin.

I have never been one to pay much attention to Oprah's program, however, I have noticed how she started out in life. It's quite impressive. And to me, everything she said in Iowa was exactly what needs to be said by all candidates. It was an amazing site to see Oprah on stage with Senator Obama last weekend.

I am out and out tired of “the Clintons”. I hope Barack Obama wins, but I'm not too confident at this point. He's smart and he loves America and what it means to be an American. He is quite a change from the politicians of recent years. But “they” will continue to say he’s not experienced enough. I think quite the opposite. It’s been my belief for many years that experience brings us nothing but trouble. From all politicians, both parties. What we need to do is clean house, everywhere. But it won’t happen.

Oprah said something to the crowd that has stuck with me:

I'm not asking you WHAT to think. I'm just asking you TO think.

Sounds like something Keith O. tries to do, night in, night out, with is viewers.  

Pat, Boston, MA (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:49 AM)

Unnamed sources claim the Detainees were 'Water-boarded' at Camp David, in order to circumvent the 'Gitmo Clause', and provide some needed entertainment for the Executive Branch and guests from the Bohemian Owl God contingent.

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:57 AM)

Since these topics tend to get a little stressful, I present for your viewing:

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22221359/

I smell a game of the year award...

Kevin, Lincoln, NE (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:57 AM)

We need to "waterboard" Cheney to get the truth out of America's biggest terroist threat to world Peace, and definitely a terror.Why do it with due process of the law,it's just the "free style back stroke" Kit Bond style.Well Bond well look for you teaching the grand kids  that little back stroke lesson this summer or winter.I hear its warm there in the summer.
Waterboard Turdblossom and Wolfewitzy,Waterboard,
Condi Grits,and definitely CoulterVader,Waterboard Oral Reilly,and Limbaugh bring and I Beam for his fat ass,and Vixen,an Comet and Cupid,and all the Liars in this administration Waterboard em all.Its on a back stroke lesson Kit Bond.What is that "Kit" about.Waterboard the Congress and lets get to why they don't do anything but talk about it all.Talk is cheap but it cost of our money a lot to do nothing about all the law breaking and war killing is done they blindly look at it like some wait till next year drive by,yes wait till next year Congress,wait till next Pelosi,wait till next year MConnell, let's have another committee,let's waste more money doing nothing about the War,the well being of Our Country,and the basic moral and ethics we are supposed to stand for.Waterboard!

B. A. Buddusky (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 10:58 AM)

Off topic from last night, but here's your freedom of expression for you!! :) Check this out!

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/12/suburban.sex.club.ap/index.html

God Bless America, indeed!!

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 11:05 AM)

Huffington Post Thursday ..Democracy Won; Blackwater Zero

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/rick-jacobs/democracy-won-blackwater_b_76401.html

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 11:08 AM)

your attention please folks about some presidential pardons

"Rufus Edward Harris, Canon, Ga., possession of tax-unpaid whiskey, sentenced June 17, 1963, to two years in prison, possession and sale of tax-unpaid whiskey. He also was on May 28, 1970 to five years in prison, later reduced to two years probation.

"William James Norman of Tallahassee, Florida, convicted in 1970 for possessing and running an unregistered distillery that did not carry the proper signage and illegally produced alcoholic drinks made from mash. He was sentenced to three years probation.

"In 2002, Kenneth Franklin Copley of Lyles, Tenn., who was sentenced in Tennessee in 1962 to two years probation for manufacturing untaxed whiskey.

now i ast you if these poltroons can get a presidential parden then wye not me, a patriotic texan who was simply ignrant of the law bout makin an transportan f and all or effend oil or whatever the hell they call it. I whish theyd slow down a bit when they talk, tham yankkees

so pleas do me the favor of ritin the president on the matter of Durwood T. Oldmans miscarriage of justis in regards to my current stint. pleas do not address to him as presedent stupid or el presedente estupido cause someone here says he speaks spanish to but if its as bad as his english then its a wonder wer not at war with mixico. and comin from me thats sayin somethin

and if the presedint dont mind then please hold up that paperwork til the wether warms up a bit

i am much obliged to you all

woody, somewere in tx (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 11:10 AM)

#5: It’s the “Splitting Hair Defense”!!

We don't torture, but we won't tell you how we define torture. Oh, and reasonable people may disagree with our definition of torture.

I’m just fuming right now over the last revelation that the Idiot-In-Chief and those responsible for the torture and destruction of the tapes “may” have an out: its “clandestine network of overseas prisons.”

In a blatant attempt to disregard two court orders; the first in June of 2005 and the second in July of 2005, two of the tortured detainees that were on the destroyed tapes conveniently weren’t at Gitmo, so apparently the tapes could be beyond the span of the court's order!!

Not so quick President Stupid; put your pom poms down; you still violated the law!! It is still unlawful for the government to destroy evidence, especially when there was every reason to believe that these tapes would be relevant to future litigation!!

Therefore, President Stupid and his thugs could be staring at a contempt of court violation for the destruction of evidence in "pending or reasonably foreseeable litigation."

Personally, I believe they need to be staring at four walls in a prison cell at The Hague!! This corrupt, degenerate and medieval administration is!!

PEACE, WE NEED IT!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 11:13 AM)

David Molinero (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:01 PM)

David, I thought we ended this yesterday; both Samuel and I told you former President Bill Clinton was acquitted in the Senate, something which you obviously view as an "inconvenient truth” as you consistently fail to state that!! Obviously Fox News didn’t report that part of the legal proceedings; what a shock!!

Also, I'll give you another NEWSFLASH; obviously you did get the first one!!

BREAKING NEWS:  William Jefferson Clinton left office (sadly for this country and the world) six years, ten months and twelve days ago!!

Get over your Stuck on Stupid Clinton rants; it's asinine and has absolutely ZILCH to do with President Stupid’s criminal administration!! Okay? Good, I’m glad we had the chat, for the zillionth time!!

PEACE TO YOU!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 11:21 AM)

Could the rumors be true? Is there a high-level Republican mole in the CIA, code named Jorge [pronounced HOAR-HEY] The Destroyer; his former pro-wrestling handle, whose sole responsibility it is to destroy virtually anything remotely incriminating of the Republicans? It is allegedly being whispered in D.C. that mole Jorge, who is highly dyslexic, was innocently discharging his daily duties of destruction, when he "lysdexcally" mistook said tapes as "e-pats", and wrongly assumed they were emails from some insignificant right-wing-nut named Pat,  [say Buchanan, maybe] and he therefore promptly destroyed them. It is further rumored Jorge has fled to the third-world-fascist-led country, known previously as America, in its former Bill Of Rights days, as opposed to its current Right Of Bill days [O'Reilly, maybe] In-Car-Nation, where he blends, quite innocuously.

Mark Alexander, Shingletown, Calif. (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 11:22 AM)

C.A. Tuscaloosa, (8:36 a.m., et al)

Thank you for the kind words, and I return the thoughts with equal vigor!  Qui custodiet ipsos custides?  

Anybody else scenting the faint yet ferrous odor of irony surrounding the president's espousal of the junior park ranger program?  How marvelous, really.  Especially considering that this administration has done sooooooo very much to maintain the pristine quality of our greatest natural treasures - by all means, let's get s'more of those snowmobiles out there!  Yep, nothin' like a good ole snowmobile rippin' through the wilderness for a great time!  Rangers?  We don't need to hire more rangers (unless they're the kind that wear black berets)  Nature'll take care of itself. . .

and so on.

Off the thread a bit, although I expect Keith will have something to say about this tonight, there is breaking news that Roger Clemons is rumored to be on the list of MLB steroid users.  If true, I'm heartbroken.

I was having a discussion with my young cousin (an up and coming dressage rider) a few weeks ago just after the Marion Jones incident.  I remarked that it may be impossible to find a top athlete that didn't use some kind of performance enhancing drug.  She gallantly retorted, "Barbaro didn't!"

Touche', little one.  Out of the mouths of babes, indeed.  

Chris F., Just o'er the border in Williconsinois (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 11:29 AM)

Allspice (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:02 PM)

LOL!! Me too; why Countdown doesn't "get it" I cannot understand!! None of us like Musto; he's not funny, he's disgusting!!

Thanks for laugh!!

PEACE!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 11:34 AM)

missing comments again; those submitted early yesterday evening and before this update.  news hole, please get your act together.

thanks you (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 11:37 AM)

Clinton: Impeached by House of Representatives of one count of "false, perjurious, and misleading testimony" and one count of obstruction of justice (impeachment is the functional equivalent of a grand jury indictment). Following trial in the U.S. Senate, acquitted of all charges.

First of all, Impeachment isn’t a Criminal Court, but a means to remove an Official from Office. Bill Clinton wasn’t off the hook until he plead bargained.

David Molinero (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 9:01 PM)

I never said impeachment was "criminal court". Articles of impeachment operate pretty much the same as a criminal indictment by a grand jury. In the subsequent Senate trial the Republicans failed to gain the 2/3 vote necessary to remove from office, with several Republicans breaking ranks to vote with the Democrats.

And so what of his "making a deal" to avoid a possible separate criminal indictment? The fact remains that unlike Libby, Clinton was NEVER CONVICTED.

Samuel, Lincoln, NE (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 11:43 AM)

Sam..So let me get this straight.  You would rather not use aggressive techniques to get vital information to prevent a terroist attack and let the attack go on as planned?  Are you freaking nuts?  
Mark, AZ (Sent Wednesday, December 12, 2007 10:32 PM)

Let me make it simple for a simpleton like you, Marky. I don't support the use of TORTURE to get UNRELIABLE INFORMATION and which will subsequently result in our own troops being tortured. The Army Field Manual on Interrogation has specifically named waterboarding as TORTURE, not as "aggressive techniques". Our government declared your "aggressive technique" to be torture many many years ago; in fact, Japanese officers in WWII were prosecuted for waterboarding our own soldiers.  

What part of that explanation does your feeble little neocon brain fail to comprehend, Marky? Are you freaking nuts? Oh wait a minute...you are!

Samuel, Lincoln, NE (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 11:52 AM)

Pam Bignardi Pam Bignardi.... Is this the Pam Bignardi from Our Lady of Mercy School 1974??

Flying Nun (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 12:00 PM)

Now it's been reported that Obamas illegal drug use remarks are being brought up again. And guess where these remarks are coming from? Obama comes out and tells the truth about his past and admits his mistakes. My God he's human afterall! Telling the truth. Ever tried it yourself? At least he didn't say he never inhaled. Here's hoping you lose big in Iowa. Obama/Edwards in 08. Pass it on. It's time for a Democrat in the White House.

John Scully Denver Co. (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 12:04 PM)

Being so happy about this may shoot whatever credibility I have with you all, but I'm pleased as punch about this as a "child of the 80s"! Madonna's going into the Rock-n-Roll Hall of Fame! Read the story to see who else made the cut:

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/Music/12/13/rockhall.inductees.ap/index.html

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 12:19 PM)

Well, this ought to take care of Pakistani President Musharraf –

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/13/world/asia/13pakistan.html?_r=1&th&emc=th&oref=slogin

“The first comprehensive public opinion poll conducted in Pakistan since President Pervez Musharraf declared a state of emergency last month has found that 67 percent of Pakistanis want him to resign immediately and that 70 percent say his government does not deserve re-election.”

Imagine it.  I mean, what self-respecting national leader WOULDN’T resign when they reached an approval rating less than 30 percent?

What’s that you say?  Musharraf might not accept overwhelming public disapproval?  I think you may be right.  Read on --

“The poll suggests that Mr. Musharraf will have to engage in substantial vote rigging to have the government of his choice win national elections on Jan. 8.”

WOW.  Who would even consider rigging an election like this?  

“Pakistan’s two main opposition leaders, Benazir Bhutto and Nawaz Sharif, each a former prime minister, are already accusing Mr. Musharraf of fixing the vote in advance and vowing protests if he prevails.  ‘If elections are rigged, we are going to need to be in a position like the people of Ukraine were, to protest those elections,’ Ms. Bhutto said at a news conference last week. ‘A plan is under way to rig the elections, and to stop progress towards democracy.’”

Hmmmm, how to do it?  Hey, Witch King – looks like a good project for you.  YOU know how to sway the vote.  After all, you’ve managed it at least once (or maybe twice) before.  What’s that you say?  Russia makes three?  

You rascal, let’s hope you’re busy somewhere else around this time next year.  We don’t need you making any more trouble here.  Don’t worry, you will be?
Iran?  Uh, oh.

Anna Molly (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 12:22 PM)

Well Al Gore sure let George W. Bush have it at the UN Climate Conference!! Kudos sir!! I read between “your” lines; yes, President Stupid has made every effort to pander to the oil companies, for which he and his family, not to mention Darth Cheney, are profiting off of!!

Speaking to a cheering audience, once again the words fate, destiny and karma!! Each your heart out George W. Bush!! Had only Al Gore moved into the White House as “we the people” clearly petitioned through our votes in 2000, the US would not be “principally responsible for blocking progress” in efforts to halt global warming!! Yes Mr. Nobel Peace Prize recipient, our next president WILL not hinder such efforts; a democrat would do no such thing!! Thank you sir!!

BALI, Indonesia – “Former U.S. Vice President Al Gore, saying his country was "principally responsible" for blocking progress at the U.N. climate conference, advised delegates Thursday not to get angry, but to wait for the 2008 U.S. presidential election.

"Over the next two years, the United States is going to be somewhere it is not now," said Gore, who flew to the Bali meeting after receiving the Nobel Peace Prize in Norway on Monday.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22239871/

PEACE TO ALL, ESPECIALLY AL GORE!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Thursday, December 13, 2007 12:44 PM)



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