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Countdown Monday: Clinton vs. Obama vs. Clinton

Posted: Monday, January 21, 2008 8:59 PM by Countdown
Filed Under:

"Chill" Bill:  "He needs to chill a little bit." The House Majority Whip, one of the heavyweights both of African-American politicians, and of South Carolina politics -- Congressman James Clyburn -- maintained both his neutrality in the Democratic presidential nominating race, and his perspective on what has elsewhere been described as a fight, a brawl, and a rift, between former President Bill Clinton, and would-be President, Senator Barock Obama.  Our fifth story on the Countdown: With the next primary, in Clyburn's state, just five days away, Mr. Clinton needs to chill, as the Congressman put it, a little bit. Mr. Clyburn also said Mr. Obama needs to be circumspect in invoking Ronald Reagan, whose "agenda for this country caused angst for African-Americans in this country... Just be careful you don't cross the line."

Rudy Can Fail:  The good news for Rudy Giuliani: he has been endorsed for President... by a guy who batted .270 for the New York Yankees last year. The bad news: he is trailing in double digits in the polls in a place you would have assumed he'd at least be **close.**

ODDBALL: An update on our favorite fat seal...a nice happy ending, too.
 
Bush: The Movie: Long before there was "Bush the decider," "Bush the uniter" there was "Bush the frat boy." Our third story on the countdown, how the heck did that happen.. and are you willing to pay to see a movie about it.. and would it be a tragedy or a comedy?  Variety reporting that film maker Oliver Stone, whose works include "Nixon" and "JFK," is now working on Bush..

The Fearless Forecaster!:  Startled, are you, that the Super Bowl next month will pit the unbeaten New England Patriots versus the unspeakable New York Giants? Our number two story on the Countdown: maybe you shouldn't have been. 

WORST PERSON IN THE WORLD: Coulter, Bolton and Dick Morris vie for tonight's honors.

Worst. Day. Ever.:  There's hope. Before you go complaining that we devoted our number one story to the most depressing day of the year... we want to stress the public service contained herein... The antidote. More on that, presently. As for why today tops the heap of potentially sad days... it derives from a formula... courtesy of a British psychologist.

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Comments

#2--Wow.  And you didn't need a crystal ball to make that prediction either.  Im-PRESS-ive.

Madame Sadie (Sent Monday, January 21, 2008 9:04 PM)

It is nice to see Congressman James Clyburn being fair!! Kudos; Chill Bill and NEVER use Ronald Reagan's name again Senator Obama --I guess he should both of them on a time out??

Sincerely, I appreciate his level of fairness, which has been seriously lacking elsewhere!!

PEACE!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Monday, January 21, 2008 9:18 PM)


I love Olberman.  

Right up there w/ Adam Corolla and others who so galantly illustrate what needs illustration!  

What in the world is that jerk from The Huffington Post talking about?  

I loved Moore's film about Bush and have been dying to see someone do a comprehensive retrospective of The Bush (#2) Admin.  Can't wait to buy my own copy of it.  



Jim, Hazelwood, MO. 63042 (Sent Monday, January 21, 2008 9:20 PM)

You know, Republicans love every minute of this tiff, this squabble, this rift, whatever the hell you want to call it. Do we need to start waxing back to the good ‘ol “Oh No! It’s the Mr. Bill Show” SNL days?!  What's "Mr. Bill" going to say next?

The “Camp Pain ‘08” caption was very good! I’m already getting sick of this election, and I consider myself to be an educated "newsy" informed voter. What about the voters who could give a rat’s behind?

Shouldn’t New Yorkers know Mayor Rudy best? No wonder he’s sinking there.  And, New Yorkers “don’t like losers”? How ‘bout those Knicks? Sorry, I couldn't resist! :) If anyone is taking seriously anything Chuck Norris says, heaven help us all. Refer to the last sentence above. There is your “typical” voter.

Ah, the return of CoulterGeist to WPITW makes me feel all warm and fuzzy – warm and fuzzy in a nauseous food poisoning sort of way.  And, I’ve had food poisoning, so I know of what I speak. I’ve never felt worse in my life, and I prayed for death.

GO GIANTS! Good night, everybody.

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Monday, January 21, 2008 9:21 PM)

Taking a chill?  Give everyone an orange Giuliani, loaded with vitamin 911.  All this bickering takes energy, for sure.  

Proxy subtlety?  I’m not playing the race card, you’re the one who’s playing the race card.  No, you are.  As subtle as a sledgehammer, maybe.  Reverse dirty politics, for sure.  

John Edwards -- kingmaker it is, or at the very least, prince charming.  What’s your role now?  Take a clue from Fred Thompson.  

Just peeked in on the debate -- everyone is looking very presidential, but they’re talking about the issues.  Back to Countdown for the really important gossip.  

Anna Molly (: always loves the journey and #4 (Sent Monday, January 21, 2008 9:24 PM)

St. Rudy Slippers -- Who cares about his economic plan?  Let’s talk about the Yankees.  If you had watched Morning Joe you today would have discovered they didn’t keep him off camera because the shark machinery didn’t work -- it’s because of the rouge and the eyeliner.  Take an orange Giuliani to fix that pasty complexion, Mayor.  And keep talking tax cuts, okay?  (September 11)  

You still don’t know what Fred Thompson’s speech was about?  It was about dogging it for John McCain.  That’s his new job, Countdown.  

Bushed!  You already know the answer, Countdown.  Dick Cheney’s office didn’t write any e-mails on September 30, 2003, because they were too busy shredding hard documents according to industry practices in order to open government and the freedom of information.  

Anna Molly (: (Sent Monday, January 21, 2008 9:24 PM)

Back to the debate -- Audience booing Senator Clinton for attacking Senator Obama? Wow. This is REAL political theatre.  Senator Edwards interrupts -- wants to know if he’s included.  Me, too.  You don’t like squabbling, Senator?  It’s only just begun.  You’ve been very explicit about how you plan to pay for your ideas?  Well, there was your first big mistake, Senator.

WPitW -- Ann Coulter -- Mint one of those coins for her.  It should be made out of tin to match her voice, and completely flat, to match her … affect.  The Coulter is not legal tender, being by definition, counterfeit.  

Skipped #1 and went back to the debate.  Universal health care?  Iraq withdrawal plans?   What’s that all about?  Paris and her little dog -- now that’s what WE want to know about.  Sheesh.

Anna Molly (: (Sent Monday, January 21, 2008 9:25 PM)

Debate update -- Senator Edwards says he would like to fight with Bill O’Reilly.  Really.  Now there’s my idea of a fairy tale -- Prince Charming slashing his way through the tangled Forest of Bloviation, climbing the dark tower of Faux Noise, and vanquishing the evil Count Billo to rescue the damsel democrats in distress.  I think we’ve found a niche for you, Senator.  Go to it.

Anna Molly (: (Sent Monday, January 21, 2008 9:43 PM)

Reagan vs Bill Clinton?
    I was working for the State in an outreach program for disadvantaged children in northern Idaho when Reagan took office. At parents request, I literally drove out into the boonies in a Ford Pinto and tested over 500 kids per year.
    It took Reagan less than a year to cut our federal funding and give that money to private physicians; which meant a lot of kids just didn't get any help--(our youth).
    This "cut" forced me out of a job. As a young father I saw many things CHANGE during the Reagan era, including the acceptance by our American society of a homeless class beyond anything previously acceptable to the American people. Bush CHANGED America too but I wouldn't brag about it.
    I find it unspeakable, selfish and unsettliing for a Democratic candidate to cross over and compare Bill Clinton to Ronald Reagan in any way that would try to make Reagan look better for the purposes of winning the California Democratic delegates!

Terry Maag, Nampa, Idaho (Sent Monday, January 21, 2008 10:00 PM)

"Chill Bill" Who's running for President Bill or Hillary? We do not see any of the other candidates spouses out front like Bill Why is this? Clearly he should support Hillary but not stand out in front of her, secondly he should be very careful about the attacks he brings up on the other candidates because it could very well be brought up about his past mistake with "Monica" serving as President of the United States. Attacking another candidate says something about your character and we can see its being done to distract voters.  We want the candidates to stick to the issues that we Americans face.

Linda,Soddy Daisy (Sent Monday, January 21, 2008 10:23 PM)

Countdown, have you seen this article?

The FBI has been accused of covering up a file detailing government dealings with a network stealing nuclear secrets

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/us_and_americas/article3216737.ece

NW Reader (Sent Monday, January 21, 2008 10:37 PM)

Chill?  Put him in a deep freeze!  As ex-president he is exhibiting the same classless behavior as Jimmy Carter by denegrating either a sitting president or one running for office.  In fact, poor Bill is starting to look like Carter and I believe he can't stand the idea of relinquishing his glamour position of democratic head of the Party to a young upstart.Plus he has an unfinished legacy or so he thinks.

A hundred years from now Bill is not going to be remembered for the Family Medical and Leave Act nor the Omnibus Budget Act; he will not be remembered for riding the coattails of a tremendous economic upsurge brought on by computer technology.  The bombing of the Cole and our country's bombing of Serbia will long be forgotten when Bill Clinton's name is recalled.  His legacy will always be his impeachment for lying under oath about having sex with an intern - a young girl in his stewardship.  I know I will never forget the converstion I had to have with my then 11 and 9 year old daughter and son about the meaning of oral sex.  This is Bill Clinton's legacy and to me he will always be a hedonistic, amoral philanderer and certainly anything but our first Black president.

M&M (Sent Monday, January 21, 2008 10:38 PM)

Regarding tonight's debate --all three candidates needed to be sent to their corners for a LONG time out!! How embarrassing!!

Having said that, I heard on the radio today a few hours before the debate that Clinton is pretty much conceding SC to Obama and is spending three days this week in California, Arizona and a few other Super Tuesday states. If that's true, it's a brilliant move and also explains tonight.  

First, Clinton won't win SC and she has accepted it; her campaigning there has such great potential of causing more racial tensions, which could hurt her nationally --she's not going to win SC.  It would also hurt Obama nationally –I’m glad Clinton made this decision (if it’s true –one never knows with “news”)!!

Second, Obama was debating FOR South Carolina tonight; Clinton was clearly debating for a national audience; she was looking at Tsunami Tuesday.  In my opinion, she scored major points nationally with her answers --she did very well.

Obama needs the win in SC and he answered the questions for South Carolina, he also did very well with how he framed his answers.  This strategy is excellent for SC in my opinion; however, I wouldn't recommend he use it elsewhere.

Having said that, they all acted like toddlers --my twins --and they were very, very rambunctious and more time outs than I can count --NEVER acted like these three did tonight –Edwards was not much better!!

WOW!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Monday, January 21, 2008 11:10 PM)

#1. The pessimist says it can't get any worse. The optimist says it can. #2. Eli's comin', hide yer heart...#3. If Stone has Rosie O'Donnell play Laura, it will definitely be a Comedy. If it's Britney Spears, it will be a Tragedy. #4. Unnamed Sources claim Rudy also has Ranger Goalie Henrik Lundqvist's endorsement if he needs it. #5. Clyburn's advice is basically the same to both of them. "Dont Invoke Nothin'...at least, for a while."

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa (Sent Monday, January 21, 2008 11:43 PM)

Congressman James Clyburn has been spouting off for three weeks.  He's as much a man of his word as Obama.  They're both liars and cheats and shame on anyone who votes for them!  Bill Clinton defends his wife against Obama's demented political comments about great Republican ideas and you pretend Bill's the bad guy?  You're as big a sell-out as Obama!

RWB2 (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 12:11 AM)

newshole update blog please.

thank you (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 12:16 AM)

Wow, first? Ok, Hillary cannot just up and say "women should vote for a woman", and Obama doesnt't dare use a similar racial frame of reference, but every black under 30 I've met exspouses what they refer to as the NWA and would vote for any black except maybe C. Rice. Conversely, every black over 30 I've met uses pragmatism laced with experience and backs Clinton. Should Bill chill? yes, we need Obama to fill the vp post, uniting all democracts and gaining valuable experience. And besides, with only Carter and Clinton as successful Dem's in 30 years, maybe we should copy some GOP style, if not substance. Paraphrasing Goldwater, never speak ill of a fellow Dem.  

rodmantia (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 12:28 AM)

Bush the movie, is this a horror pic, a comedy, a tragic drama, sci-fi, or a mix of all the above? Better rate it R so all the kids will go see it and be forever traumatized enough to give the GOP the fear and loathing routine. HI Pam, sure missed reading your ascerbic and dead on wit!

rodmantia, Phoenix (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 12:33 AM)

If you wish to validate or debunk political rumors go to this website

http://www.snopes.com/politics

As of Tuesday, 1/22/2008, there are still 364 days until the end of this regime on 1/20/2009
There are 349 days until the end of this Congress on 1/5/2009
There are 287 days until election day -- 11/4/2008

There are still more Primaries to come!  Continue to evaluate ALL the candidates and think wisely before you vote.
And we are counting down.

Carol, Long Valley NJ (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 12:44 AM)

I attended the Nevada Democratic Caucus. I can confirm that the Hillary campaign handbook did say that the doors were to be closed at 11:30 but while helping to set up the room, I also posted the official rules printed by the State Democratic Party.  The copy I posted on our precinct's wall also said the doors were to be closed at 11:30.

The biggest problem with the caucus was that no one knew what they were doing. My precinct's caucus was held at the same school as 15 others.  Everyone who arrived had no idea what precinct they were in.  All of the complaints that you have heard about people being turned away are from people who did not know their number. They were trying to send them to their proper precincts. The 100 people in our caucus acted reasonably enough and realized all the confusion and kept the doors open until 12:00.  
Since we were expecting 40-50 people, we were given 75 ballot cards.  We ended up with 97 and worked out agreements in the meeting on how to count and record our vote.
Although the caucus was totally disorganized, the overwhelming message was the huge turnout.  Don't let all the mistakes take away what was a great day for democracy and the Democratic Party.  We have been outvoted by Republicans for years and drew 120,000 Democrats to the caucus while the Republicans had about 40,000.

Bob Unger (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 12:45 AM)

Here we go again. Republican Congress with the help of some Democrats and an Independent complain about our intitlements but I don't hear them complaining about their intitlements. I think they rail against us because they have spent our intitlements and want more to give to their rich friends.  It is way beyond time for all their friends to pay their fair share and give us what many of us have worked for some times for 40 & 50 years and in some cases must still work.  I want to know why the President and Congress are so special living on the backs of poor Americans. I trust you the most Keith. I think,if you will, that you can sock it to them.

Robert Freels, Bridgeville, Delaware. (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 12:56 AM)

You are losing your bloggers along with their comments and lack of updates.  You have already lost several of my favorites .... don't lose more.  Take this seriously.  Just think how you'd feel if Daily Kos lost Keiths post!

If you want to continue this blog, take your responsibility seriously.  If not, just discontinue it as a favor to everyone disgusted with it's slow, inevitable decline into demise.

Lurking in the Shadows (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 2:11 AM)

tonight the question was asked as to why the obama camp would raise the question about the voter suppresion in Nevada without asking for legal action. Did it ever occur to any of you that it was done to shed a light on the clinton's tactics so it might not be as apt to happen in the future. After bush winning two elections without his people's tactics questioned, can any of us afford to stand by and allow this way of winning go by without voicing our concerns.

Frances Rodriguez, Carterville, Illinois (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 2:24 AM)

Hmm. A movie about Dumbya. Will it be a comedy, drama, documentary or a tragedy? Who will be Cordelia to his Lear? Who will be Brutus to his Caesar? I think we already know who will be Iago to his Othello. Stone often makes a movie with an odd topic but I'm wondering what studio can be talked into financing something like this. Will it just cover his political life or will it include his alcohol and cocaine besotted twenties and thirties. Will it include his finding God ( who knew God was lost)? Will it show his business career, mediocre until he saddled Texas taxpayers with the cost of a stadium to create an enormous profit for him upon his sale of his interest in the Rangers? Will we finally see the secret rites of Skull and Bones? Will we finally get the answer to the most important questions of all: Who or what is George Bush and who cares? He has created an image of ineptitude and indifference which will characterize him in perpetuity. It is less than one year until a new president occupies the White House and we will no longer have to deal with Dumbya the dilettante. For the Republicans, unfortunately, it will probably take at least two election cycles for them to recover. They will be swamped this November.

gator,stuart,fl (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 6:59 AM)

Good Tuesday afternoon to all.  My family & I had a great time up in bella Toscana-the Leaning Tower of Pisa was an especially cool thing for my four boys to see.

Speaking of being up North-the air quality was awesome; there were recycling bins everywhere; and there were NO bags of trash lining the streets.

Folks, you need to understand that the current situation in the Naples area is having an impact on our forces, government employees & the families (the impact on the Italians goes without saying).   Our government is 'working' with the Italian government, and the Navy has called in people from the US to assess air & water quality-great.

It is common for areas around here to burn trash, but with no landfill to put ANY trash, it has been accumulating and many areas are starting to burn the trash-not good.

2008 - HEALTH RISK ASSESSMENT INFORMATION SHEET >>Top
The Navy is committed to protecting the health and well-being of it members and their families. As residents of Naples, Navy leadership understands your concerns, and is working closely with the Government of Italy to answer your questions.  

Navy Region Europe leadership has asked the Navy and Marine Corps Public Health Center in Portsmouth, Virginia to work with local and national public health officials to evaluate the potential health risks from exposure to substances in the environment.  Their team of experts has begun collecting information, and will arrive in Naples soon to work with Italian and U.S. Navy officials."

Kevin in NJ:  I think right now I'd rather deal with the 'murderer on the loose in Chula Vista', vice the trash on the loose here.  It's nasty.

I'll keep ya posted.



Jamie, Lago Patria, Italia (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 7:51 AM)

As with Pam I don't think there is such a thing as a popularity rating. But the numbers both received when leaving office were neck and neck, Clinton 65 and Reagan 64. And like I said, using proper margins of error for such polling data (at least 2 to 3 percentage points) their approval ratings were pretty even.   C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Monday, January 21, 2008 12:47 PM)

C A -- This morning I happened to see this blog in The New York Times and thought you might be interested.  There is a link to a Wikipedia article that shows 12 different instruments measuring former presidents.  There are some scholar rankings but also some popular polls, including various polls taken from 2006 to 2007.  For whatever it’s worth, sir.

http://kristof.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/01/21/the-top-ten-presidents/index.html?ref=opinion

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Historical_rankings_of_United_States_Presidents

Anna Molly (: (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 8:40 AM)

I think it is agreed that Bill Clinton needs to chill a bit. Hillary's response to a question regarding Bill's involvement in her campaign that she would expect him to support and campaign for her as do Edward's and Obama's spouses was partially correct yet partially wrong.

Bill would be expected to support and campaign for Hillary, but to say that Edward's and Obama's wives have the same media exposure, influence and political machine ties as Bill Clinton and therefore the same impact against another candidate is ludicrous. In regard to the candidate's spouses the playing field is not equal and Hillary knows this. Her overgeneralized statement to the question was lame. On the other hand, what else would we expect her to say. Her whole campaign is becoming quite lame as well.  

Hillary's response to Obama during this exchange, after Obama made a comment regarding Bill's recent attacks against him, that she was standing there and not Bill, Obama should have come back and asked "are you sure"?

All in all Edwards won the debate. Hillary and Obama's squabbles were childish and embarassing. Perhaps Edwards will get some kind of boost from the debate.

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 9:11 AM)

Good news - John Edwards is the native son in SC
Bad news  - We can't stand him
Worst news- Trailing Hillary Roddam and Barak Hussein

Joan, Columbia,SC (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 9:28 AM)

I don't remember anybody asking the most obvious question on ANY news program yesterday, Keith:

If Obama can't handle criticism from the former President, how on earth will he be able to handle it from the GOP if he wins the nomination? The Republicans are going to throw everything at him.

He did seem to hold his own in last night's debates, though.

old nick, chicago, il (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 9:30 AM)

"Bush". Unnamed sources claim Hollywood is in an uproar over the Casting Calls for the movie about Dubya. Though Josh Brolin supposedly has the inside track on the lead role, there are plenty of others who demand a Screen Test, including, Kevin Costner, John Goodman, Tilda Swinton, and K-Fed. Laura is also hotly contested, with Cate Blanchett, Winona Ryder, Jessica Simpson, and Star Jones, lobbying hard for it. Dick Cheney's role has drawn Jesse Ventura, Robin Williams, and a digital-facsimile of Klaus Kinski. Karl Rove has supposedly been locked up by Eddie Murphy. The role of the twins will most certainly be taken by Mary-Kate and Ashley Olson, though Mickey "The Psycho" James and Beth "The Glamazon" Phoenix of WWE wrestling fame, seriously want the roles. The role of Ann Coulter will most certainly be played by newcomer-to-acting, Dirk Nowitzki of Dallas Mavericks, in Drag. Oliver Stone is rumored to be using Mark Twain's "A Connecticutt Yankee in King Arthur's Court" as the basis for his script, with added inspiration from the unauthorized biography of Benedict Arnold, "Eggs Benedict". Whatever happens, we are in for a 'Peach' of a Movie.

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 10:10 AM)

Terry Maag, Nampa, Idaho (Sent Monday, January 21, 2008 10:00 PM) Hi! You deserve a medal for all of your good work - especially driving a Pinto! ;)

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 10:13 AM)

Someone at COUNTDOWN is digging up the Florida tribute, right? Please?? :)

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 10:13 AM)

"
"Rattlesnake?

seriously?"

far left gaviidae in mpls (Sent Monday, January 21, 2008 6:09 PM)

Loons? Seriously? Or is this your parking space at the mall?

crotalus (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 10:27 AM)

Wow the democratic candidates have really gotten personal.  Last night's debate was a disgrace, and I believe that this childish bickering is going to turn alot of voters off, and could end up hurting the democratic party.  Anna Molly said that in the earlier post that they were very presidential (later retracted), but I have to say they were anything but presidential last night.

Keith, as for Rudy, no one cares.  He is not going to be the nominee.  His campaign strategy was the worst in recent history.  But your reveling in his unraveling is mindless.  Please move on.

Kevin of NJ (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 10:28 AM)

Barack Obama needed to correct Bill Clinton's assertions leveled at him. I think it would have hurt him had he not done so. Political analysts will say this will hurt Barack.

I don't see it that way.

_______________________

I would have to think there are a lot of disappointed football fans here this morning since Brett Favre wasn't able to get the Packers to the Super Bowl. A lot of people laughed at Terrell Owens when he cried after losing, but in reality when EVERYONE has you as the favorite to win for most of the season, it's crushing when you lose.

Belichick v. Coughlin.

Congratulations Giants fans.  Don't let the 13 point underdog label get to you. The Pats were 13/14 point underdogs to the Rams heading into the 2002 Super Bowl and we beat them. EVERYONE picked the Rams. The Giants remind me of that Patriots' team. It should be a good match-up in two weeks. The Patriots are not invincible.  

18-0. Unbelievable. It wasn't pretty or easy.

Pat, Boston, MA (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 10:29 AM)

old nick, chicago (9:30 AM Post):

On the contrary, I think Obama can handle very well the criticisms that will be thrown at him, by Dems or Republicans. Obama's issue is not being able to handle the criticisms but a decision on how to handle them. I think last night showed that Obama has decided he was going to start fighting fire with fire. He has determined he was not going to take the BS any longer and to fight back. Whether you agree with him or his positions or not, I agree with the decision he has made to stand firm and to get a little tough. He did not have an emotional moment because he was being criticzed by all sides, including a very popular ex-Presdient who is not running for President (or is he), but Obama has decided to go toe for toe. Win or lose good for him.

Note on many of Hillary's responses to legitimate questions last night about the issues as health care , the economy, etc., many of her responses were preferenced with "we" looked at this and "we" studied this and "we" decided this. If she wants to be considered and elected on her own merit she needs to begin using "I" before making such responses and proposals. Every time she says "we" there is a message being given to people that these positions and proposals are not hers, but rather Bills and hers. It weakens her claim that she is the one standing there, she is the one running, and that she will be the one in charge if elected.

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 10:32 AM)

Quick question:  We're the Democrat and Republican caucuses held at the same time in NV?  If they were, did the Democrats not report their results until much later than the Republicans?

I'm only asking because I was watching Fox 'news' on Saturday (hey, that's what AFN was showing), and for the 45 minutes it was on they only showed the Republican results.  So, before I go and slam this 'news' station for their blatant 'fair and balanced as long as you're a neo-con', I just want to make sure what the deal was.

OBTW, read a 'lovely' little column in the Stars & Stripes yesterday.  Ann Coulter seems to think that all Democrats are sitting on our front porches waiting for our FEMA checks-oh the cheeky little whore for the neocons.  It's actually quite funny when you realize that the woman is off her rocker.  No, nothing funny about insanity, but seeing it in that freak, well, it's nearly heart warming.

Ciao!

Jamie, up to our waist in trash, Lago Patria, Italia (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 10:41 AM)

Just peeked in on the debate -- everyone is looking very presidential, but they’re talking about the issues.  Back to Countdown for the really important gossip.  
Anna Molly (: always loves the journey and #4 (Sent Monday, January 21, 2008 9:24 PM)

LOL!! I love this --also, I’ve been seeing the reverse "dirty politics" from the Obama campaign for a while now --as I said earlier, "neither" campaign is pristine –“one” campaign just wants us to think it is—Bhutto’s assassination did it for me!! The Nevada caucus reporting of irregularities is just the latest example of the not so subtle --“dirty” tricks.  “Voter irregularity but oh we'll move on" –yeah, nice try --after the seed has been planted –great analogy by your guest Keith!! I find that most disturbing and dirty politicking!!

PEACE!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 10:47 AM)

RWB2 (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 12:11 AM)

Nice to see someone else here sees the "dirty politics" from the not so "pristine" Obama campaign!!

PEACE!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 10:52 AM)

Anna Molly (8:40 AM Post):

Thanks for the info. I see that the Greatest Presdidents rankings based on numerous polls have Reagan as ranked No. 15 and Bill Clinton as No. 21. Abraham Lincoln as No. 1.

Not sure I agree with any validity to these polls or to any ranking by well known Presidential scholars. Subjectivity can never be taken out of such polls or opinions. Regarding more recent scholars who rank Presidents I wonder how they would rate the same if they actually lived during the time of past Presidents? Polls and rankings by scholars are based on those criteria used by the scholars to make such rankings. Use different critieria and one might come out with different results. Don't you think? It's  also difficult to compare and rank Presidents against others when each faced (or did not face) a unique set of challenges and issues during their Presidency. It would be interesting if we could send them back in time how some of the more recent Presidents would have handled Valley Forge or the War Between the States.    

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 10:57 AM)

Bob Unger (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 12:45 AM)

Well thank you Bob for clearing up what the Obama campaign implied as "voter suppression" yet is willing to move on!! As Keith's guest said, "reverse dirty politics" and I don't like it!! I hope this comes out; I’m sick of the bashing of the Clinton’s and the praising of Obama –please, they are both “campaigning” –both camps have done things I don’t like –to say it’s all the Clinton’s is ridiculous –I knew the voter suppression was one BIG lie by the Obama camp when they so “kindly” let it go --yeah!!

Again, thank you sir!!

PEACE!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 10:57 AM)

Hillary's response to a question regarding Bill's involvement in her campaign that she would expect him to support and campaign for her as do Edward's and Obama's spouses was partially correct yet partially wrong.
C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 9:11 AM)

Isn't everything Hillary does wrong according to you? You are certainly not very restrained in your prejudice against Hillary.  Nice try but you are not fooling anyone. You are not fair and please don't attempt to insult anyone here by pretending to be. You're as transparent as a window and about as delicate as a train wreck.

see through, anywhere (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 11:07 AM)

All in all Edwards won the debate. Hillary and Obama's squabbles were childish and embarassing. Perhaps Edwards will get some kind of boost from the debate.  C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 9:11 AM)  

I agree with that, from what I saw, especially about the squabbles.  Edwards is right -- the squabbles do nothing to advance the ball, although for a kicker like me they do make for good political entertainment.  I was especially struck by the harshness of the exchange between Clinton and Obama about his (is it Resco?) dealings in Chicago.  I was also surprised to see him take off on Obama a little bit more than I would have anticipated, especially with regard to those “present” votes in the Illinois legislature.  Just goes to show the desperation they may all be feeling right now.  I ’m not sure how much boost Edwards will get; there’s just no accounting for it anymore.  

But you know me, C A.  After last night, I just want to know if Bill Clinton can dance.  You probably already know the answer.

Anna Molly (: (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 11:11 AM)

Mostly watched the debate last night instead of listening to a bunch of bobble-head dolls tell me what I'm supposed to think about what I heard.  Have to agree with Pam B.  Our candidates (all three of them!) need to be sent to their respective crates for a time out.  If they're good, they can have a Kong toy to chew on - better that than each other.  

President Clinton's spirited defense of Sen. Clinton has been bothering me for quite a bit.  I finally figured out why last night.  (Okay, so I'm not the sharpest crayon in the box).  The President isn't acting in the same capacity as Michelle Obama or Elizabeth Edwards; he isn't being just a supportive spouse.  He is the de facto head of the Democratic Party, and as such, his support of one candidate over another is inappropriate.  Granted, the real politik makes it difficult to be certain of exactly what role he SHOULD take.  And I'm not suggesting he fold his tent and retire from the field.  Perhaps he should take Rep. Clyburn's advice and dial it back a little.  

Chris F., Just o'er the border in Williconsinois (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 11:16 AM)

Congratulations to the Jersey Giants for making it into the Super Bowl.  If they win, maybe this time they'll remember where they play and have the celebrations locally, in NJ.  

Carol, Long Valley NJ (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 11:22 AM)

Who will be Cordelia to his Lear? gator,stuart,fl (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 6:59 AM)

Maintaining the gender metaphor, It would have to be Condoleezza Rice, wouldn’t it?  If she had any real political aspirations when she started this process, they’re long gone now.  Tragic for her, at least.  Overall, I’d say maybe not so much tragedy as problem comedy.  We had a few laughs along the way, but we saw such promise wasted, and the ending is likely to be ambiguous at best.  You’re sure right about one thing, gator.  Starting on January 20, 2009, who will really care?  Let’s just hope you’re also right about the elections.  

Anna Molly (: (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 11:36 AM)

Upon awakening this morning and seeing all the re-run clips of last night’s debate, it was actually much worse than I originally thought --which was pretty bad –after watching it live!!

And people have complained about Bill Clinton’s anger – HAH!! Not even close to the behavior exhibited last night by these three –Edwards’ was slightly --not much --just a bit better –he, too engaged in the idiocy!!

DISGRACEFUL!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 11:43 AM)

Newshole, please update the blog and find our missing comments. Your moderation is very poor.

thank you (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 11:47 AM)

On the other hand, what else would we expect her to say. Her whole campaign is becoming quite lame as well.  
C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 9:11 AM)

This will be my last comment to you on the subject of Hillary Clinton; it has become very apparent you cannot set your bias aside and treat this campaign and its candidates fairly!! Your statement above is ridiculous --please either admit you dislike Hillary Clinton or try playing fair with the other candidates.  I am shocked and saddened that you would continue to slander Hillary Clinton yet maintain you do not dislike her.  It's disingenuous and personally very disturbing to me --thank you.

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 11:52 AM)

It was an interesting debate particularly when Obama once again brought up the issue of his faith. I may have missed it, since I didn't see the whole debate, but on Rev. Martin Luther King Day, why is the issue of faith virtually ignored by the MSM when it pertains to Democratic candidates? Why was the possible appearance of a cross in the background of Mike Huckabee's campaign commercial such a problem but no one raised any question about Democratic candidates using appearances in black churches on MLK day for campaign purposes? Huckabee has also been endorsed by a number of black religious leaders but the MSM refers to them as conservative black leaders, not evangelicals. Does the MSM fear referring to them as black evangelicals because the MSM wants us to assume that evangelicals are a white, monolithic group to be feared and it threatens their template? If so, is this not a racist attitude let alone an attitude which exposes a bias against those the MSM labels as evangelicals? Of course it is and the reason there is little debate over this in the MSM is because few in those media have the courage or integrity to confront, investigate, or debate this issue. They fear what they do not understand so they ignore what is opposed to their own worldview.

Steven Rennie, Fillmore, NY (Sent Tuesday, January 22, 2008 11:52 AM)



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