Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Dan, Boston — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 00:43:05 GMT

Apologies for the cut&paste, but this comment on Wonkette is appropriate for your Worst person in the World... WIDTAP says: * Placing hands upon John Derbyshire * May God grant you the opportunity to rush a gunman with an automatic with an extended clip.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

LA Seattle — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 00:48:20 GMT

Keith, Thank you, thank you, thank you. You took the words right out of my mouth. My husband is in the military and has been overseas. He and I were just talking about how it seems that lives in Iraq lost are less important than those lost here. We have become numb to those deaths. Just another blip on the ticker after the Imus and Anna Nicole stories. Why is it that our flags are not at a permanent state of half staff? Where is the outrage? Where is the President at these memorials?

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Chris Eldridge, Harrisburg PA — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 01:08:37 GMT

If we want to stop as many gun crimes as possible, we should have automated listening posts that listen for and then triangulate the sound of gunshots (or cries for help) so that the police can be alerted automatically! Such systems are already used in high-crime areas of LA and can be mounted on cell phone towers. Other systems actually turn a camera in the direction of a shot to see who fired the bullet. There is also the decided need to provide our police units with lightly armored squad cars that can protect them against small arms fire. Instead of hiding behind trees as shots rang out, such armored vehicles could have allow them to storm the grounds and even drive through the barricaded doors. Our country may not be ripe with turmoil like Ireland was, but a lone sniper can - at will - pin down emergency personnel anytime or during any event they wish. Several acting together could be catastrophic! It's just not proportional to put so much capability and specialized equipment into such restricted and vulnerable emergency response vehicles. Police officers should never have to feel intimidated while driving around in an unprotected squad car! Taking everyone's fingerprint and placing it on their photo-id might also be just as effective and a deterrent! Home schooling (where possible - perhaps using telecommunications) is also a potential solution to school violence, bullying, and drugs. P.S. I do think the parallel you drew between Iraq and Virginia Tech was important and politely done. I personally feel for the Iraqi civilian deaths as well. The night NBC news showed Richard Engel go into a bread shop moments after the owners where murdered – laying there dead on the floor as the smell of freshly backed bread filled the room – was horrific to me, yet the only thing bloggers spoke about that night was some other trivial news event like "how's the weather." The disconnect in war never seems to hit home until it is thrust upon us personally.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Ruth Grunbeg — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 01:29:21 GMT

The most dangerous week of the year April 20 Birthday curse of Hitler The legacy of hate --- more hate Revenge Retaliation Explosions Spectacular crimes as Troubled souls worshiping demented devils past exit the earth Innocent lives snuffed out Shattering all illusions of innocence. Dreams and hopes gone. Families wrecked. Another plaque Marking tragedy. Waco Oklahoma City Columbine Virgina Tech The insanity of massacre on Holocaust Memorial Day. The grand irony as a President laments the deaths And sends other young to die In the insanity of war. Ruth Grunberg 4-17-07

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Tru M., Cleveland, Ohio — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 01:30:28 GMT

Keith, the show hit just the right note tonight, and I thank you. You covered the Virginia Tech news as it deserved to be covered and still found time to ask why we've become so inured to the deaths in Iraq...both our own and of the Iraqis. And to catch us up on Gonzo-gate and to deliver some well-deserved smackdowns in Worst Person in the World. Why in heaven's name is it that people always think that if THEY were the ones being shot at or if THEY were there with a gun, they would be heroes and rescuers and saviors? I doubt it...besides which, the wisest course of action if someone is shooting wildly is usually to DUCK and GET AWAY if you can...not to try to play the hero. The bottom line? None of us who was not professionally trained for a particular emergency situation knows how we would react in it unless and until we face it. And even then, there are always unexpected factors and the horror of realizing it is for real this time and not just a rehearsal. If we pretend we would know exactly what to do, we are just kidding ourselves. And to condemn and criticize and ridicule those who were in it is the sign of the truly ignorant and boorish. Must be nice to critique people's reaction to a deadly shooting from the comfort of your computer chair! Unbelievable. Great show tonight from all concerned, Countdowners...keep them coming, and "great thanks."

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Stevie Salt Lake City Utah — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 01:34:05 GMT

Keith, As usual, your reporting on this tragic matter is and has been the apex of compassion.I appreciate how you have brought back some focus on the carnage in Iraq. God forbid that we should forget these gallant warriors. I am also grateful to you for exposing the sick hate mongers that won the dubious honors of being the Worst People in the World. Please American listen to what these people are saying. We have the power to silence them. All we have to do is turn that dial.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

DW Utah — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 01:38:09 GMT

I do not blame the students. They are not "action movie heroes." I would like to think in that situation that I too would rush my attacker rather than sit and take it. I hope I never have to find out. United 93, Real people, they really died, they are Real Heroes.

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Bonnie, Madison — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 01:48:14 GMT

What will the immigration zealots say now that we learn that the shooter has been here legally since the first Bush administration (1992)? What will the gun zealots say now that the conventional wisdom bubble has burst and it turns out that both guns were obtained legally? How would enforcement of existing gun laws have helped here? How do you go about catching someone who files serial numbers off guns he got legally, carries them concealed, and brings them onto campus under cover? How could this have been prevented if the counselors and the police wouldn't act when they were repeatedly told about this kid, as his professor reports? I'll tell you how. It still comes down to this: if that poor tortured kid doesn't have those guns in the first place, in all probability most, if not all, of the victims would still be alive.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Trudi Inslee, Bainbridge Island, Washington — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 01:56:52 GMT

Regarding the president's statement today that the VT victims "were in the wrong place at the wrong time" - please know that those people were in the right place at the right time, it was the shooter who was in the wrong place doing the wrong thing at the wrong time!! This is such a terrible tragedy and the survivors need not hear that the victims were in any way responsible for their fate by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. Not true! They were going about their normal, daily lives.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Dee Dawsey Columbia, Ms. — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 02:19:09 GMT

Keith, the Va Tech massacare was a shock, Americans thoughts & prayers are with the victims, families and friends. Our fellow Americans dying in Iraq, Are dying at the hands of American Voters, who put this Lazy, Ignorant, Incompetent Clown in office to play Prez. Alot of Americans mourn our Americans dying in Iraq, but I bet the people who voted for this clown the second time could careless about our military. Dee, Columia, Ms.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Rod Mullins — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 02:21:23 GMT

What is truly deplorable is the behavior and sickening sensationalism by many of the media outlets jumping on the first thing said and scrambling to make news first with the headlines. You are not innocent either Keith, as you announced on Monday night that the gunman was a Chinese national who entered the country from San Francisco. Sure, reporters are human, reporters make mistakes. But what absolutely sickens me and others in this country, are people that call themselves journalists and can't follow the simple rules all journalists must do....listen and verify. The press conferences have been nothing more than a boisterus and obnoxius circus featuring reporters, who for lack of a better sense, feel that they have to shout louder than Katie Couric to be recognized by media big shots. The media coverage by some outlets has been nothing short of pathetic, sensationalized and "pornographic". This is certainly a tragedy that will echo for decades to come. So will the deplorable and sensationalized news coverage and rush to suddenh judgement of what could have been done in regard to preventing this event. It's the media's job to report verified facts and information or has the constitution added the news media outlets now into the Balance of Powers, the Three Highly Respected Branches of the US Government?

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 02:42:08 GMT

LA Seattle - You are so correct, and my prayers are with your husband, your family and you. God bless you and may God give you strength during this terrible time in our country. I am outraged at the lack of outrage; in addition to what has transpired during this war. While I have not become "numb", you are correct that prior to the horrible state of affairs we are in, when “one” military death occurred overseas or elsewhere, it was reported continuously throughout the day and evening. Now, we get "statistics", and this is deplorable. These are human beings that have lost their lives. So many people have suffered, to include our brave men and women then have served overseas and their families left behind. I promise you this, I will never become "numb" and will continue to be "outraged" until each of our brave men and women return home safely to their families. God bless you and you will be in my prayers from this point on.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Samantha, Brooklyn, NY — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 02:54:16 GMT

Dear Mr. Olbermann: I wanted to applaud your brazen approach to paralleling the Iraqi war deaths to the deaths in Virginia. It seems to me that the word "soldier" has the meaning of expendable in the White House; not to mention all the civilians that lose their lives to a shameful cause. I am certainly not taking away from the devastation of the situation in Virginia, but It scares me that we are living in a society that allows the media to sweep Iraqi and American soldier's deaths under the carpet. I think the solution it to force everyone, including our illustrious leader to watch a whole season of M*A*S*H.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

George, Hammonton, New Jersey — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:07:34 GMT

Keith...I agree we have become immune to the faceless soldiers dying everyday in Iraq...We never hear their names; We rarely see their faces. I was amazed at the media attention given to Anna Nicole's death...A strung out ex-stripper who offered the world exactly what? While day after day, soldiers kept dying as Judge Larry performed...Soldiers died with no media fanfare...Just another number in the total body count...At least blogs like this keep the soldiers in mind...The students at Virginia Tech will have their names, faces, and stories told...As well they should...They were not soldiers...Armed and able to fight back...They were students in classrooms...But we should not forget the soldiers dying day after day either...I was one of the few people even against going into Afghanistan let alone Iraq...Neither country crashed airplanes into our buildings and consciousness...I am for a war on terror, an aggressive war on terror, but not fighting a civil war in Iraq...I hope we grieve for the students at Virginia Tech and continue to grieve the soldiers who continue to die in Afghanistan and Iraq...

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

A. J. Roanoke, VA — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:07:49 GMT

I think the attempt to draw a parallel between the loss of innocent lives in the VA Tech tragedy with the US soldiers in the war zones, as well as the hundreds of thousands innocent civilians around the world, is the best talked about the events unfolding in the Va Teach massacre. It simply does not seem real grieving of human loss to ignore so many dying innocently by the dingbat ego of politicians and their roundly panned mean-spirit.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

George, Hammonton, New Jersey — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 03:38:43 GMT

I would like to make one last point or at least try. I still disagree that guns kill people... And before I get attacked again, I have never owned a gun, never shot a gun, and I have campaigned for the Brady Bill and the banning of assault weapons. The statement guns kill people is too simplistic. Guns are the means for people to kill, but something snaps in their minds before they reach for the gun. Before a trigger is pulled, a mind finds a reason, a twisted reason, to end life and pick up the gun...My point is we need to find a way to stop people before they can pull a trigger. But how? How do we defuse the internal time bombs ticking in people's minds? How can we stop the time bombs? There are reports the killer blamed the victims, saying something to the affect "you made me do this"...The killer wrote a note railing against "rich kids," "debauchery," and "deceitful charlatans." My point is the 23 year old snapped. What happen, what experiences made him devalue life? What made him blame the victims for his rage? Guns played a part, the end game, but the killer's time bomb is the reason he pulled the trigger, set the events into action. Tightening the gun laws will help, but it appears he obtained the guns legally. His weapons of choice were two handguns. If he strapped a bomb to his chest and walked into the building or dorm or cafeteria and killed innocent people, would the crime be less heinous? We couldn't blame lack of gun control or the NRA for the bombing. My point is after years of studying human behavior, no one knows or can predict what will make an individual person snap and go on a killing spree, gun or bomb in hand...Jeffery Dahmer didn't use a gun. Another tortured mind, a ticking time bomb. Timothy McVeigh used explosives to make his statement. People can kill in many ways. We have done so for centuries. The invention of gunpowder was the beginning of the end. I detest our gun culture, using guns to solve problems, but gun control is only one part of the solution. I wish guns were the sole reason the student killed, but before his rampage, a series of events happened causing a mind to snap before he bought and used the guns. His mind exploded; life no longer mattered. How can we change that mind set? Can we? If the massacre at Virginia helps to tighten gun control laws, keeping ticking time bombs from getting guns, maybe the students' deaths won't be in vain. But the larger question is how to detect minds ticking on the brink...The killer displayed signs. One professor tried to intervene. The police said they couldn’t do anything. I wish I had an answer. Guns are only one way for killers to kill...I detest the NRA, always will. But if the killer used dynamite, poison, or fire, whom would we blame? My heart goes out to all the victims at Virginia Tech and all the victims of violent crime across the country. I would prefer a gun-less America, but the second amendment won’t be repealed. The first and fourth amendments can get repealed, just not the second. More importantly, I would prefer a world where everyone values life no matter the static in their lives..."There is always madness in love, but there is also always a reason in madness." Nietzsche

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Lynn — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 04:58:14 GMT

Hokies would be the last to forget about fellow Americans in Iraq. I am aware of 3 Virginia Tech Alumni killed in Iraq. Don't forget: over the years seven VA Tech alumni have been awarded the Congressional Medal of Honor.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Sam — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 06:30:23 GMT

As someone who owns guns and am familiar with them, I would not suggest that anyone rush a gunman. Mr. Derbyshire obviously has never been confronted by someone with a gun. Nor has Mr. Blake. To rush someone with a gun is foolish even under the best of circumstances. I had seen on Media Matters that a guest on one of the shows had suggested that if one of the students or the professor had a gun, they could have taken out the gunman. I would say to anyone who believes this, "leave the heroics on the movie screen." These students and this professor were probably not equipped to deal with this situation. If one or the other had a gun, a lot more people could have died. It is shamefull that any of these people died at all. The police are better able to deal with those situations and are trained to deal with the rush of adrennaline that comes with having to use deadly force.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

B.I. Glenwood Springs, Colorado — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 07:07:43 GMT

Bravo, Mr. Olbermann, and staff. I agree with the lady from Seattle, and applaude your honoring of the troops and the citizens of Iraq, as well as the profiles of some of the shooting victims. I was particularly informed by the criminologist and the way he put a lot of this situation into perspective. -Great show.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Bobby C ,Sacramento,CA — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 07:56:28 GMT

Yes LA of Seattle I agree with you totally and am glad MR. Olbermann did his aware,kind,and non forgetting news story, "What About Iraq" along with the discussion with his friend Richard Wolffe of Newsweek.I do not want to discredit those deaths of the children/young men and women of families who will never forget.Nor do I wish to criticize their tremendous courage and acts of heroism. I have family from that are of the country,ancestors,and kin.My son went to war with some troops from back there and served as their medic. So my deepest sympathies to the families of the students. Now to try and emphasize my point daily we send men and women to a pointless mission,the President and his Boy's make up some crap to tell them as to why they are going on the mission less mission,you know limbo football,no yard markers no goal lines,just dead and injured players. So we keep getting 30 or more killed monthly,and countless others wounded.Oh I almost forgot their PTSD seems to be a little more insignificant than the kid and and kin of VT.Now that's not on the kids and kin thats on our government not paying attention,just like Walter Reed.Now I have a good Friend who just got back.He is a Corpsman,a kind have adopted as a pen pal and a Friend of my Son's.Now he was blown up either 3 or 4 times in a Hum Vee by IE'Ds taking wounded back up and down roads in Western Iraq.I think he will get to have seen his new wife all of about 10 weeks.He has some serious PTSD but still hides it with that courage shallow laugh like its all right Bob. Bodies blown to hell everyday,almost loosing his live daily,he will be going back in November,yep it's alright W go sign another WT sign. I wonder how many our kids and Fathers,Mothers,Sisters,Bothers,will be hurt or die today,how many Iraqi kids,will,die,Mothers,Fathers,Sisters,Bothers will die today.Almost forgot my son went also,he is very quiet they gave him a Purple Heart and helped saved some Marines lives and some Iraqi soldiers lives.He saw all the horrors of war as well and now has that 1000 meter stare into space.Now I am crying and I am crying for the whole Country,for the whole world,Iraq,Dafur,Afghanistan,Africa and the list just goes on and on. So Mr. President the next time the next time your out in the Rose Garden chit chatting with God or Rove/the Devil Incarnate if the got a little Koi pond or something back there there go over and take a look at the reflection and maybe God can finally reveal to you the immediate problem with Iraq.As for Rove he's a disease,kinda like the Alien Liar Movie,Or the Herpes Liar Movie,hard to get rid of like a computer email eating virus. But or Troops and Kids ,Men and Women are the Finest in the world. So to All of you Familes and Students and Students of VT and in VT I'll be praying for you,You Men and Women oversees I am always Praying for you,my friend who was blown up four times said Bob thanks those are working,to the citizens of Iraq I will be praying for you,as to those of Dafur,and the orphans of Africa, I better close this because I can feel the presence of my wife sneeking up on me who says I say grace like "Ricky Bobby".

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Phil C, Madison, WI — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 08:20:27 GMT

Hey, what's with the not linking the clips thing? I don't have a TV! This is the only way I can get my Olbermann fix!

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

SDE, Baghdad, Iraq — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:47:10 GMT

http://projects.washingtonpost.com/fallen/ http://www.militarycity.com/valor/honor.html http://www.antiwar.com/doverimages/gallery.htm Please take a miniute to take this in. Not to throw it in your faces but this is everyday for us and after the VT horror ends we'll still be here, thousands of men and women. Someone will die but it won't amount to the news/media attention. The dead are not the top story or any story these days unless it comes with political gain. No side seems as if they care genuinely until a camera is rolling. At which point the outrage is seen world wide. Some high ranking someone is at funerals for the fallen sometimes or they were. At the begining it was protocol but that went out of the window. To many fallen and not enough time. So we were given 400,000 for life insurance instead of the 250,000 that was in place up until '05. More money for dying! Excuse my excitement but it's sold to the military like that. "Hurry sign up, look what we're doing for you!!!" The front page of the stars and stripes may echo the story from VT but on page three you'll see a break down of deaths and if there are any new ones to report.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

RJ, Dublin, Ohio — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 09:55:03 GMT

Why don't the rest of us go berserk? That is the missing issue. Most men can kill(wars, but 99.99% never do anything like this. Why not? What is the significant difference? We will never rid the US of the 230 million guns here, but can we someday change the behavior patterns of 4th-grade bullies, and eliminate the isolation and torture that millions of children face daily? That is the only solution.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Charity, Princeton, NJ — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 11:07:47 GMT

Does the need to fill column space outweigh one's sense of decency and common sense at times like this? My mind is officially boggled.

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C A, Tuscaloosa, AL — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 12:57:59 GMT

LA Seattle: Many in this country are outraged at the deaths of American military personnel in Iraq and want these brave young men and women brought home. Many of these soldiers are of the same age as those students brutally killed at Virginia Tech. and who also deserve a long and rewarding life in their future. But GW Bush and those on the right wish to "stay the course". They do not see our military personnel as individuals with their own personal stories and personal dreams and aspirations. They see them as a collective. And when they say they support the troops and ask congress for money to support the troops they speak in terms of the collective body and do not consider how staying the course will impact each and every individual soldier sent to Iraq. Where are the stories of each solider that has died in Iraq, their pictures on the news with a biography of what they had accomplished before their death in Iraq. And where has the President been when these soldiers are brought home to various airports in flag draped coffins? How many funerals of these soldiers has the President attended? I am saddened for the loss those families have experienced at Virginia Tech. But I am also saddened by the loss of each and every American soldier who has died in Iraq. I want to know who they were and what their dreams had been. I want to see them coming home and greeted at the airports with full military honors while hundreds wave flags and pay homage to their sacrafice. A TV pundit has said that the decision not to show returning soldiers killed in Iraq has been a self-imposed restriction so as to give the families of these soldiers privacy. I don't believe this is the case. This is something that this administration has pursued and demanded from the beginning so Americans would not see the returning coffins of the brave American soldiers who fought and died in this senseless and immoral war of GW Bush. GW Bush, Cheney, Rumsfield, Rice and all right wing TV pundits as self-loving Shawn Hannity and Fat Ass Rush Limbaugh and Nut Case Ann Coulter need to get their asses in their cars, drive, locate and stop at every single gravesite of those soldiers killed in Iraq, and pay homage to all those this administration has sent to their deaths. There is a class difference here too and everyone knows it. Those on the right are quite aware of it but don't want to admit it. And it impacts the lack of importance given to the death of these soldiers. If you were a football star we hear about you, but many of the soldiers killed in Iraq are volunteers who were not football stars and who come from low-socio economic backgrounds where college due to grades or money was out of the question. We need to bring back the draft with no deferments or exceptions allowed, period. Then we shall see how important the American soldier is to this country and these right wing administrations.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Lee, Chicago, Ill. — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 13:38:14 GMT

Keith...You hit the ball out of the park again!!! You are so right. We have become "numb" to ALL the tragic deaths in Iraq. Both American and Iraqi. It's a scary thought to think that we are becoming "comfortable" with war and death....unless it touches us personally. Please stay on this. If it makes some uncomfortable...that is a GOOD thing.. Bring on the discomfort, keith!!!! p.s. Your courage combined with your empathy is really beautiful.

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Dennis, Arvada CO — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:07:44 GMT

I was just watching the coverage of the most recent violence in Iraq which has left at least 127 people dead and had this thought. People in this country are completely horrified about the 32 people dead at Virginia Tech. to the point that it's about the only thing on the news. In Iraq a number of dead like that would be considered a light day. Maybe this could finally bring home to the American people just what we have done to that country when we see a small example of what they have been faced with almost every day for four years.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

DCohn, Cleveland,OH — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:21:30 GMT

Thanks KO for the way you have been handeling the Virginia Tech story. In Bush's defense, he did show up for the Convocation with Mrs. Bush. I am not a Bush supporter but the facts are, he could have sent the VP. That would be like sending Casper the Friendly Ghost. It doesnt take away from not showing up in Iraq and supporting our troops there. I also wanted just commend you KO on your new endeavors with announcing football on, who else, NBC.You are very deservant of these wonderful accolades. I know you were pretty low key on this due to the circumstances, but it should not unnoticed either. Your worst person of the week should lay off the comments, once again open mouth, insert foot. What is wrong with these peole who can't let a Nation mourn, and a college town mourn without harsh criticism of what he would have done. That is a crock, no one knows how they would respond if they were caught up in that situation. Speculation and assumptions only make you one thing, an ***! In time to come, we will all heal, but we as a Nation need to let the healing process start now. Thank you again for your on point reporting and masterfully and maturely covering this horrific topic. Denise

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:30:57 GMT

The comments by the Worst Person "Men" make Imus's gaffe look like nothing. These two should not be given a forum, unless it is on the campus of Virginia Tech. Let them try to float their "Wusses" theory there, and see how it is taken. It seems to me they have a twisted admiration for the Murderer, himself.

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Brian, Morgantown, WV — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:31:04 GMT

The idiots at Westboro Baptist Church are already planning to picket the funerals.

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DCohn, Cleveland,OH — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 14:44:28 GMT

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Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:13:18 GMT

Just in from the Associated Press "BAGHDAD - Four large bombs exploded in mostly Shiite areas of Baghdad on Wednesday, killing at least 157 people and wounding scores as violence climbed toward levels seen before the U.S.-Iraqi campaign to pacify the capital began two months ago." This is devastating beyond comprehension, and how John McCain can continues to parrot George W. Bush's lies is incomprehensible to me. How many more innocent lives will be lost before "we the people" via our Congressional Representatives & Senators demand action- and NOW!! This carnage, along with the lies spouting from George W. Bush's mouth must be stopped or God help us all!!

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Diane Buccini, Virginia Beach, VA — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:28:01 GMT

I've wondered myself why most Americans don't mourn the deaths of the young men and women in Iraq and Afghanistan. Why more attention isn't paid to those losses because they are such a great loss to us all. It seems that our flag should remain at half staff until all of the soldiers are home. How very sad that these deaths have gone so unnoticed.

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Jodee, Cortland, NY — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 15:45:26 GMT

Keith, add me to the list of those who wonder why the lives of our American soldiers and the lives of innocent Iraqis seem unimportant. THIS WAR IS UNJUST! Where is the justice here? Peace 'n' luv to all. :)

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Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:37:34 GMT

Update from the Associated Press "Baghdad death toll rises to at least 160. Attacks mark sharp escalation in violence" - How can mass murderer and war criminal George W. Bush live with himself. Not only has he destroyed an entire nation, and is personally responsible for hundreds of thousands of innocent deaths; his arrogance and incompetence rages on. As he spews his lies, standing there glassy-eyed, absolutely clueless and with his smirk of arrogance, it is a very telling story of a man absent any conscience, and without question, has no soul. I only wish I could personally order him to The Hague, where justice can be handed down to this horrid murderer!!

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John Doe outraged — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 16:59:58 GMT

Where are the "good" Revs Al and Jessie when real suffering is happening for everyone regarding Va Tech?

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SEC prof, AL — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:09:28 GMT

OK, so we can't control guns. But, could the warnings about deranged individuals AT LEAST be posted to the ATF watch list, can't we better control who can buy a gun? If there had been a reasonable outlet for the warnings from VT profs, the disaster might have been averted. As a prof in a similar institution, I have expected something of this type for a long time.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Looking for the outrage in Missouri — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:21:34 GMT

The reason why those lives lost in Iraq seem "less important" is that they are not reported on fully and we don't see images of them on the news. They are ignored by the MSM, or mentioned in passing. Although the majority of Americans are now "against" the war, there is no widespread outrage. Until the MSM start showing the flag-draped coffins, and the thousands more maimed and mutilated (American as well as Iraqi), and truly reporting on the human toll of this war in terms of American lives affected, not just lost, there will be no outrage. Minutes ago, when a co-worker yelled out the daily "160 killed in a Bagdad blast today" there was little response, although there was some sadness and head shaking. I think a lot of this is that those lives are Iraqi, mostly, and people don't think of it in terms of the humanity. We need not only the "count" but the images and the real toll this takes on the soldiers killed and injured and their families. I'm NOT saying its just because the lives lost in the daily bombings are presumed to be Iraqis that we don't care. I'm just saying that when we hear the daily bombing headline, its "Ho hum, another day in Bagdad." Its too far away, literally and figuratively to become outraged. There's more talk in my office about Dancing with the Stars and American Idol than about the dead and maimed in the war.... And, LA in Seattle: the President can't come to the soldiers' memorials because that would be an acknowledgement of what's really happening. Better photo op to show up at VA Tech a day after his FIRST COMMENT to the tradgedy contained a bone to the NRA about gun ownership.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

susan — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:23:42 GMT

BLACKSBURG The blackbird dropped her bright red wing here today. Blacksburg, black crow, black hawk Down. Bloody Bush with his forked foot, Blackdad, Blagdad, Badman, Baghdad. Beastly Bush to wipe the tears from bloody blacksburg, with his own stained hand, his cloven tongue. He mourns 32 here, not the 33rd, age of our lord, 333000 and more Dead in Baghdad, lives out of mind, out of Time, but these, he grieves. The wonder is The deaf, dumb and blind man noticed. Perhaps Dick Shamey, or Carved Roe told him of a photo op, nearby. Another bloody feather in his flocked cap. don't mention the politics of mutually assured hypocrisy, dear mothers, or gun control, the love that dares not speak its name. 4/17/07 austin texas

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

CW — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:31:31 GMT

Keeping the VT tragedy in perspective... http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18169833/ http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/18054335/ With the loss of a single innocent life touching so many and causing such sorrow, how you suppose the average Iraqi copes with more than 100 civilian deaths per Day, Every Day? Over 3,000 per Month? It boggles the mind.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

CW Cocoa, FL — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:36:06 GMT

I'm gonna scream! Repeatedly hearing Bush & Cheney lament what they perceive as America lacking a stomach for a fight is the height of hypocrisy and is truly sickening! You remember George "I avoided Vietnam providing air cover for the Alamo" Bush, and Dick "I ducked service with 5 college deferments" Cheney, don't you? The truth and facts of the matter are when these two were of "fightin' age" they didn't have the stomach for America's fight. They dodged service at all cost, avoiding it like the plague. When asked then & now, they profess their total support for the Vietnam War, but ironically used all their's and their daddys' power to avoid actual involvement therein. Having the stomach now to commit our sons, daughters, mothers, fathers, husbands & wives to a bloody, overpriced perpetual war initiated on false premises does not change these facts. Bush & Cheney were chicken hawks then and remain so today. This wasting of precious Patriot Blood is criminal! With US causalities fast approaching thirty thousand, if one's support for the Iraq War doesn't extend beyond tough talk or placing a flag & yellow ribbon magnet on the back of your vehicle, it's likely long past time for you to put up or shut up! Enlist, and encourage your kids to enlist. Invest something personal in this mess! Looks like no price is too high as long as someone else is payin'.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

CW Cocoa, FL — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:36:56 GMT

It's hard to cope with having your son's & daughters killed for nothing and I've angered some other Viet Nam Vets with my views but it is true. Unless they died saving a buddy's life, they died for Absolutely Nothing. We went there to help prevent the North from taking over the South. Fourteen years and over 58,000 American lives later, the North took over the South. We got nothing out of Viet Nam except over 58,000 names on a black granite wall in Washington DC. Had I died there, mine would have been just one more name; nothing more. Are we more or less free as a result? Hell No! How different might things be had they not been sacrificed? It's the "they died for our freedom" BS that's so disheartening. If folks say it fast and often enough they can convince themselves those thousands of Dead & Wounded American Military personnel is the price we HAVE to pay for our Freedom then & now. It ain't so. Iraq is exactly the same as Viet Nam in that regard. In the end, I'm afraid we'll be erecting another granite wall with nothing to show but tears & sorrow. Some things are worth fighting for. This was a fight we didn't need to start.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

CW Cocoa, FL — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:51:56 GMT

Every hard core Iraq war hawk, including and Especially the current White House administration should enlist and encourage their spouses & kids to enlist. Invest something personal in this mess. Bush could take his whole cabinet. They could make up for all that service avoided in Vietnam. We know Cheney can shoot quail & lawyers. Give him an M-16 and drop him off in Baghdad as a Marine Private. Nope, reckon hhe couldn't be a Marine. No guts, ya know!

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Pat, Boston, MA — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:55:32 GMT

The news coming out of Iraq today is horrendous, truly horrendous, and Congress doesn't know how to handle this situation anymore than the President and Vice President know how to. There is no genuine leadership in this country.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Daniel, Houston and I didn't vote for him, TX — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 17:55:33 GMT

Major props to Keith for having the guts to ask -- in a way that took nothing away from the tragic loss at Virginia Tech -- why there is no corresponding public outcry over the continual flow of American blood in Iraq. I'd be surprised if there wasn't some major right wing name-calling over last night's show. Perhaps we've sunk to the level of Orwell's '1984'. Recall: Endless war, against the enemy du jour, as mere background noise. Could it be that is what our own fearless leader is really after? Our government certainly has embraced the trifold motto of Big Brother: War is Peace, Freedom is Slavery, Ignorance is Strength!

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:09:40 GMT

As I stated in a comment this morning that has not been posted many in Iraq are forgotten or less important because there remains a class distinction in this country and don't anyone here try to deny it. Not all but the majority of those kids being killed in Iraq were not football stars. Nor did they possess the grades or the money to attend a college before joining the military. Many come from the lower socio-economic level in this country and many volunteered to seek a purpose in life and to get the hell out of dodge. Some will attend college if they get home but most will find work in the non-professional trades, construction and manufacturing plants, etc. They were the backbone of this military and they will be the backbone of the hardworking middle class of this country when they return. But while fighting in Iraq they are our grunts and they are dispensable. You know this is how this administration views them, I know it, and most of this country knows it. This country needs a draft where there are no exemptions (0) except for those found physically and mentally incapable of participating in the military. Then let's see how many wars the right wing war mongers wish to take us into. God bless the grunt. You kids are the true Americans and I wouldn't want anyone else watching my back.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:15:28 GMT

Pat-Boston: How right you are. No one has the slightest idea what to do to end this mess. Bush does not want too because he knows he will go down in history as a war monger who started and lost a senseless war. The Dems are too scared to cut his funding. And all worry what will happen to Iraq and the middle east if we just pack up and come home. My vote - just pack up and come home.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:25:12 GMT

Looking for the outrage in Missouri - You are so correct; however both sadly and appallingly, George Herbert Walker Bush passed a law, stating no photos of flag-draped coffins returned with our brave soldiers could be taken. This law has remained in effect. His rationale was that he felt the "country would lose support and that moral would be affected during 'Operation Desert Storm' “ .This cowardly act makes it quite evident that his son learned “compassion and loyalty” from his father. Both Bush's loyalty is directly solely at themselves, and this is truly a disgrace.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:30:21 GMT

CW. We had a saying in Vietnam, to cope with the pain. "It don't mean nothin'." A million years from now, who will know the difference?

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Bonnie, Madison — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 18:30:47 GMT

What a great, although somewhat somber, show last night. As anyone can see from reading the above, at least those of us who blog here haven't forgotten for a moment about Iraq. But most of us are "just folks" sitting here helplessly waiting for the Congress we elected with such hope to please, please, please, please, please show some courage. Pat from Boston is correct. Sadly, there appears to be no real leadership in Congress. Maybe Mr. Olbermann should apply to be war czar. I hear the job's still open, and I'm thinking that things would probably change in a hurry.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:14:15 GMT

George, Hammonton, New Jersey - You certainly will not get attacked from me sir. Your brilliant statement is so true, in that in addition to gun control issues, we seemingly and to some degree willingly turn a blind eye to mental illness. I oppose the death penalty for a variety of reasons, and always felt that had we studied the Timothy McVeigh's of the world, perhaps it would serve to prevent another such catastrophic tragedy. While asking this question throughout the years, I have been attacked. I have never minimized his heinous and horrific act in doing so; but merely questioned what would make a man, who served in the military and in "Operation Desert Storm" turn against his country and human life? What changed in Timothy McVeigh, a man who once proudly wore the American uniform and bravely served his country into a man with absolute contempt for that same country? What transpired in his mind and soul that allowed this conversion to overtake him? We will never know, as he is gone. I believe we lost an enormous opportunity to study a man and determine what went so very wrong to lead him down the dark path he chose. I strongly believe it is opportunities like these; that we must summon great courage and understanding and realize we can possibly learn “why” such a tragedy occurred. Studying the mind of a person capable of carrying out such a horrific act as the Oklahoma bombing, in my opinion, will help to prevent an alarming and horrifying reoccurrence. What happened to Timothy McVeigh’s mind and soul? We will never know.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:27:49 GMT

Countdown - Congratulations!! As now, instead of "it's all Bill Clinton's fault", it is apparently "all your fault" according Larry Charleston, SC, who states, "I did respond but I guess the countdown police were protecting your feelings". Countdown, don't be offended - quite the opposite, STAND PROUD, as you have now been placed in a league with one of the best, President Clinton himself!! I am equally proud to be the catalyst that placed your brilliant and wonderful show, anchored by the "Walter Cronkite of my generation", Mr. Keith Olbermann, right up their with the great President Bill Clinton. I, too, am standing proud!!

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:38:09 GMT

Tru M., Cleveland, Ohio - A heartfelt and brilliant statement. Thank you........

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

George, Hammonton, New Jersey — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:40:05 GMT

CW Cocoa, Fl...My father died in Vietnam when I was seven in 1965. I have struggled since his death with did he die for nothing...When the last American soldier left in 1975, North Vietnam took over South Vietnam...so, in one way he did die for nothing...but he also wrote a letter than ended up being printed in newspapers around the country since he died in 1965 in one of the first big offensives. Dad wrote, 'The reason I am fighting communism now is so my sons, George and Mike, won't have to five, ten years from now.' His words still give me a sense of peace most days that he died for something he believed in...two years after the death of JFK and three years removed from the Cuba Missile crisis...Many soldiers believed his words. I am grateful he didn't end up going and dying much later, say in 1972 when all the lies and deception were exposed about Vietnam...much like the lies and deception that surround Iraq...fighting another civil to establish a government that doesn't have the total support of the its country's people...the soldiers doing their jobs should always be supported and kept separate from the war machine politics that create war...I believe many soldiers are fighting and dying today like my dad for something they believe in...keeping America from experiencing another 9-11, preserving freedom, whatever they need to believe in...at least I want to believe that despite the ill-conceived notions of our government for invading Iraq...the mystery bullet fired at the US Maddox in the Gulf of Tonkin started the Vietnam Police action...War was never declared in Vietnam hence the War Powers Act...the weapons of mass deception and Iraq's phantom connection to 9-11 fueled the invasion of Iraq...we can and should disagree with the reasons for the Iraq War...we still have a first amendment right to address our grievances to the government...But I know the soldiers are at least dying for something they believe in, some ideal beyond a bungled war...whether they agree with the war or not they continue to fight and die...I would think LA Seattle believes her husband is fighting for something...even if she or most of us have doubts..I have all the respect in the world for our soldiers. But I detest the politics that create war. I hope they return home soon before more die fighting a civil war only Bush, Chaney, and the diehard Bushworld supporters think we can win...the war on terror is not the civil war in Iraq...

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:44:41 GMT

Dee Dawsey Columbia, Ms - Bravo!! Voting for the moron once was bad enough, but twice? With evidence form his incompetent and criminal first term staring them in the face, a.) Blind supporters; b.) Those in coma; or c.) Recently recovering from stupor walked into their voting booths and cast another ballot for more criminal acts, death, destruction and the provocation of more hatred from the community of nations!! Sadly, I, who never voted for the idiot, also have to pay the price for their irresponsible votes!!

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Lee Holmes — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:46:32 GMT

I want to know why there is no ''continuing outcry'' for the over 10,000 Americans[thats over twice the number of soldiers killed in Iraq],killed in the last year[rather than the last four],in ethnic gang violence largely propelled by well-armed illegal immigrant gangs.In LA alone,over 70%of child-adolescent gun homicides are committed by gangs[Journal of the American Medical Assn.]Yet these numbers,in Boston,in NYC,in Chicago,in Seattle,in Atlanta and Miami,Houston and New Orleans,Lincoln and Detroit,Sacramento and San Francisco,are kicked to the far-recesses of the mind as it briefly registers ''gang-related killing'' and instantly moves on.It does little good to explain to such people that the vast number of those killed are not other gang members,but those Americans caught in the crossfire.Every month,another VT massacre is effected in Pico Rivera,Compton, and Watts.EVERY month.[in 2003,30 in a one-week period in just a four-block area of the south LA River Basin during a battle between the 204ths and the Grape Streeters[the older Rollin Sixties],allied to MS-13,an illegal-immigrant gang that could teach lessons to al Qaeda in the brutality dept.They are here NOW.And they are growing.Atlanta and Boston are seeing huge surges of 'gang-related'gun violence at the hands of illegal-immigrant gangs,and they are setting up in areas that were previously unknown to such rampant violence.[and yes,again,in areas of the nation that have drastic gun-control laws].Yet no-one on the MSNBC Big Three[Olberman,Matthews,Scarborough],rarely,if ever,mention Americas biggest criminal enterprise in its history,totally dwarfing the Mafia,Crips,Bloods,Jamaican,Haitian and eastern Irish gangs,whose memberships are in the millions and whose arms stockpiles can go up against National Guard,SWAT,and federal law enforcement units.10,000 of 30,000 dead Americans annually.Here.Not in Iraq.[and these numbers include returning Iraq War soldiers who survived the hells of Fallujah and Ramadi only to be gunned down back at home by gangs].If Olbermans goal was to advance perspective,he failed in his quest as merely using a show as an antiwar platform,and even if it reaches its goal of American retreat from Iraq,while allowing this clearly growing madness to go totally unmentioned,is labour lost.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 19:52:24 GMT

Bobby C ,Sacramento,CA - God Bless You, sir, and may He watch over your son. Thank you for sharing your story.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:01:21 GMT

Bonnie, Madison - My friend, I could not agree with you more. "Virginia Tech senior Cho Seung-Hui walked into a Roanoke gun shop five weeks ago, put down a credit card and walked out with a Glock 19 handgun and a box of ammunition. He paid $571". Under Virginia's supposed "gun control laws" or lack there of, he merely had to wait only thirty days to purchase the second weapon used in his murdering rampage. As I stated earlier, mental illness must be studied; however, gun control laws need serious attention - and NOW!!

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:16:04 GMT

Lee: You seem to be an encyclopedia of knowledge. Could you tell us the backgrounds, race, national origin and socio econimic standing of the majority of victims of gang related murders? Also, add to this information regarding the backgrounds, race, national origins and especially the socio economic standing of the majority of service personnel below the rank of Sgt. serving in Iraq. When you do this I will easily be able to point out a major reason why the victims of gang murders and those military personnel killed in Iraq do not make the headlines and are pretty well ignored by the republican right.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Jamie, Chula Vista, CA — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:20:13 GMT

Lee: You are a contradiction, aren't you? The reason that gangs kill each other in several numbers (hardly massacres on a daily basis), is the availability of guns. You ever heard of a drive-by knifing? I grew up in Long Beach, and not too long after I graduated (in 1984), the Crips and Bloods went on a violent warpath, however, they were in this country just as legally as you and I. It is a sad, but expected comparison that you would throw illegal immigration into the mix-Bill O'Reilly would be proud. There have been gangs in this country for as long as I can remember-all American citizens: Black, white, Asian, latino, Italian, Irish, etc.. What they ALL have/had in common, besides being Americans, is the 'right to bear arms.' Odd, isn't it? Shame on YOU for excusing the deaths in Iraq, and making their deaths okay since we have gang violence here. Two wrongs do NOT make a right, and arguing against an ill-conceived, unnecessary war, does NOT mean that we are unaware or uncaring about the violence in this country. Don't blame us. The general population is the same on gang violence as is the government: Better them killed there (in lower income, gang ridden 'hoods), then killed in our nice little suburbias.! PEACE!

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Tom Y MN — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:27:51 GMT

Good show last night. Countdown is the only show I know of that consistently holds to account people like the three in the WPITW, Billo, Beck, and other idoits for the stupid and crass comments they make. The show is a great public service for that alone.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Stevie Salt Lake City, Utah — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:40:57 GMT

Just have to weigh in again. I forget to mention how much I appreciated the comments made by the criminolgist. He really makes good sense. I guess I am overwhelmed by all the voices of reason and I can't seem to keep up.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 20:47:24 GMT

Lee Holmes - As I have repeatedly stated, one of the weapons used in the mass murder at Virginia Tech was previously banned under the "Federal Assault-Weapons Ban", enacted in 1994, AND that ban was allowed to expire in 2004, which I have also previously and repeatedly stated. Under this "ban" that was allowed to lapse, "magazines were limited to ten (10) rounds". You have called me a liar, dishonest and stated my dishonesty is an "increasingly dubious trait". Ok Mr. Holmes, following describes the weapons used in the tragedy at Virginia Tech. WEAPON 1: Glock 19, Caliber: 9x19mm (9mm luger), Magazine Capacity: 15 rounds; WEAPON 2: Walther P22, Caliber: .22 Long Rifle (.22LR), Magazine Capacity: 10 rounds. Well Mr. Holmes, now that we have determined it is "YOU" who has been dishonest; I anxiously await your apology. Weapon #1 used has a magazine capacity of fifteen (15) rounds and the second weapon used has a capacity of ten (10) rounds. Now that the "facts" are laid out for you, and are crystal clear, it is apparent I was in no way dishonest. "Weapon #1's "magazine capacity is 15 rounds” or five more than the lapsed “Federal Assault-Weapons Ban”. I once again repeat my factual claim. One of the weapons used in this horrific mass murder WAS previously covered under the "Federal Assault-Weapons Ban”, which Bush and his GOP-led Congress allowed to lapse. I anxiously await your apology for calling me dishonest and a liar. I never once stated either weapon was "currently banned”; but consistently and repeatedly stated one of the weapons was previously banned and the ban was allowed to lapse. This is unmistakably summarized for you here.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Bill Rochester NY — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:26:37 GMT

Brian in W. VA. You gotta be kidding me! Picketing a funeral? Mark Twain was right "The only problem with baptists is they don't hold them under water long enough"

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Bill Rochester NY — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 21:33:14 GMT

Pam Lawrence's comments about the countdown police was directed at me. Guess I got his attention finally. My response is in the stay where you are thread. I'd love to see what he wrote that got screened. Oh well I'll never know.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:00:56 GMT

To all of those who continue to have blind support for George W. Bush and his party, which is clearly off the right-wing radar scale, I have a few words for you. After George W. Bush’s repeated criminal acts, he had absolutely no business yesterday, speaking to the grieving families and friends of the murdered victims in Virginia, as he continues to create and advocate mass murder. Despicably, he does it in "our" name. I kindly and respectfully ask him to "shut up", and NOT use “me”. This American never supported his Iraq invasion. I knew he was lying threw his teeth, disguised by his disgusting smirk, from the onset. Iraq was not a military threat to the world, nor did they have WMD's. Bush had a sick obsession with Saddam Hussein, and contemptibly, both violated his oath of office and sacrificed our brave men and women in his campaign of revenge. He is solely responsible for hundreds of thousands of innocent deaths, to include babies and children. He is responsible for our complete loss of credibility worldwide. He is responsible for attacking a nation, with all "his" global might, which could not defend themselves. He is responsible for lying to the community of nations, which has affected the security of millions of people. He is responsible for violating our Constitution. He is responsible for violating The Geneva Convention, by advocating and supporting the inhumane treatment of those detained at Gitmo; in addition to the numerous accounts of abuse and torture of prisoners held in the Abu Ghraib prison in Iraq. He is responsible that “WE” as a nation, have lost all credibility worldwide. He is responsible that “WE”, as individuals in the minds of millions around the world, can no longer criticize anyone after George W. Bush’s criminal treatment of prisoners. He is also responsible that in a country that prides itself on democracy, the world has figured out that “WE” are our government. That’s how much damage George W. Bush has caused this country. George W. Bush is an evil man, and while he may never be punished on this planet, I believe he will ultimately face “Higher” justice when he leaves planet earth.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:26:50 GMT

Bill Rochester NY - I respectfully apologize my friend, and you are hereby honored as the catalyst, which put Countdown in the same category with President Clinton. I humbly and with great honor, transfer all credit to you. Thank you again my friend, for your support, in addition to the intelligent dialogue you bring to this blog!!

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Lee Holmes — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:38:52 GMT

Jamie:You forget that the Surenos,Nortenos,Grapes,204s,MS-13, and other illegal immigrant gangs antedate your '1984'period.This is not 1984 and this is not Long Beach.The threat that these illegal immigrant gangs pose is actual and real.Its mounting body count goes on despite 'O'Reillys',and claims of'xenophobia'and 'racism'[except that practiced by illegal Hispanic gangs.Even LA Mayor Antonio Villgarosa is now convinced that these gangs are engaged in the ethnic cleansing of these county bouroughs and the death count,nearly exclusively African-American,in an effort to drive them from their homes,proves it].Burying your head in the sand,much as you accuse Bush of doing now with regards to Iraq,merely ensures that more will die.My stance on the 2nd is no contradiction.It is based on the right of LAW-abiding Americans to own LEGALLY-obtained guns.I see that the San Diego Co. Sheriffs Dept.has cited an over seven-fold increase in rapes,robberies and murders in Chula Vista,Ca.since your '1984'.Why would that be?

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Tom Y MN — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 22:44:29 GMT

If Bush and his people have their way, The United States of America will become the Christian States of America. It is ironic to me that the same people that brand Syria, North Korea, and Iran as "evil," and in need of "democracy," would seek by their actions to take away much of the our freedom. Keith has detailed very well how this administration has rolled back our rights, for the sake of "national security." This administration has made a consious, calculated decision to impose their idelogy on all Americans.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Lee Holmes — Wed, 18 Apr 2007 23:45:32 GMT

CA-Outside of a tiny minority of social workers,the clergy,and police outreach,they are ignored by everybody.Consider.Hollywood is hardly the Center of the Evil Republican Empire.Yet the vast majority of these killings are occurring less than five miles away,in a city that is run top-bottom by Democrats that include its congressmen and senators in Washington.The majority of the deaths in Iraq are of caucasians,working to middle class,whose education is superior to that of Vietnam soldiers after 1968.[US Dept.of Defense Statistics,May,2005,which were provided to confront a false report by Rep.Charles Rangel[D-NY]that more blacks died in Vietnam than any other racial group].These inner city victims are in a working-class range,predominantly African-American,with several that own businesses,and who have lived in their cities for generations.Indeed,areas of Watts and Compton can be easily confused with any suburban region with its neat houses,tidy lawns,clean parks and streets and modest vehicles.Only in the last decade,has a criminal program to drive them out been identified,with a major report issued by the LA Mayors office last month acknowlaging that Hispanic gangs were behind what has been termed ''ethnic cleansing''in large portions of Los Angeles.This pattern is now being repeated all the way across the country in areas of Atlanta and Miami.That it is rapidly becoming a dire threat seems to be escaping everyone but those who are enduring these American combat zones.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

David, Grand Haven, MI — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:03:00 GMT

If this killer was known by mental health workers a year ago why wasn't his name and information in a data base so he couldn't buy a gun? Is there no background checks in the State of Virginia? I know in the State of Michigan anytime someone is run by law enforcement and they have been listed as "mental" by mental health officials its in the system.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 01:06:54 GMT

SDE, Baghdad, Iraq - God Bless you and may He watch over you and keep you safe. I promise you this, I will continue my OUTRAGE until each and every one of you comes home to their families and loved ones. Thank you so much....

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

SDE, Baghdad, Iraq — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 06:50:27 GMT

Thank you Pam. I have a few moments before I take my brief absencence from the blog. I come here because Keith does an excellent job of not letting his viewers forget about us and he reports on news without the spin of the no spin zone. If you look at the honor the fallen link I put on my last comment you will see the faces, names and stories of the fallen here. Some are from my very unit and brigade. To see their faces is weird because they're no longer around. They have become a picture. We have memorial ceremonies for each and everyone here and in the rear (post/base they deployed from). After that they become a picture and we continue to fight this senseless fight. We don't get to see the pictures or here the stories of the Iraqis that have been killed thanks to this rape, pillage and killing spree we've been on. To put in perspective many don't look at the Iraqis as they are people. I got into a debate with my captain and another NCO about Iraqis. I screamed that we are treating them bad. They both looked at me in utter shock and disbelief. (My words came out of no where I had been sitting quietly at the time.) I continued to say that we have come into their country and have occupied them. We hold them hostage in their own country. If they dare fight us back then we arrest (if they're lucky) and kill them. We kill them for protecting their country. Isn't that what people would have us to believe is the reason why we all need to carry weapons in the US? We need them for protection right? Just in case some country dares to come into America and try to control us. If they come in and try to take away our leader (just making a point because the majority would give him over), change our entire way of doing things and then, after all of this look at us as if we're dogs and are mad because we don't want there help. (I am not an advocate for Saddam but, as I've written before and will continue, he had a hold on this country. For all those that hated him we are dealt the same hand in the states, we are a democracy to an extent and we are dealing a much worse hand to the Iraqi people.) A man was running from his captors (after this surge thing anyone can be arrested and held, we take kids also like 5 and up) he was cut in half by an automatic weapon. His brother witnessed it. His brother was grazed and taken into US custody. The brother was released from us and paid 6 USD a day because he was innocent. He and his now dead brother were innocent. He stayed in prison for 12 days. So for his time he was given 72 USD. That is a considerable amount of money for an Iraqi citizen but he was detained falsely. Sometimes they don't get paid because we feel they shouldn't be. So they are held with no way of supporting their family and then released with nothing. I hate this. My CPT said look at the way they're trying to kill us, what did we do to them. I looked the two in the eyes and then said we're here. We are here. I went on my rant about how we treat immigrants that aren't trying to take over the USA and we want to string them all up and fly them on a kite to were they came from. The CPT responded with so we should let them kill each other and we do nothing. (I smiled when he said this.) I said yes, we for one caused this it by taking out Saddam. We kicked over the ants nest. I asked next, why is it we aren't aiding the people of Dar fur and Sudan. He replied that we can't be everywhere and we're here. So I asked why, simply WHY. The subject was changed and we continued with our normal day. I left, showered and got ready for another day of the same thing and I will always ask why? Many Americans here believe the same thing. They look at the Iraqi people as if they are animals and less than us. An Iraqi Police unit that we're supposed to be training and working with protested the way we treat them and their country and screamed to the public to make us leave. They don't want us here either regardless what the papers say. I'm not sure how that went in that direction but It was on my heart. CA, you are so very correct. The military (enlisted mostly) is built on the low class. There are many that get their citizenship through the military, many that have nothing join for "shoes and teeth" (old saying sadly enough it still holds true), some need the money for college and others want to serve their country. The military looks great. You get 3 square meals a day, a place to live, uniforms, 2.5 days of leave/vacation time a month, free medical and dental insurance and a paycheck. If you have a family then you get more money, a house/apartment for your family rent free(they are now getting people to pay their own electric bills in some places), extra money for food and the family gets free medical and the dental is pretty cheap but you do have to pay for it. It's the answer for so many down on there luck with no place to go. The Mexicans that many want to go home are here dying for your country, some of them aren't even citizens yet. Funny how they can join the military and die for the USA but some want to go door to door and kick them out of their homes and fire them from their jobs. Would you want to see the draft come into affect any quicker? If they made all the people that aren't citizens leave the ranks we'd have a gaping hole. We have Africans in our ranks also but we can't go over and help their families being killed in the name of religion. We have the poverty stricken in our ranks. We have people still on welfare and getting handouts in our ranks. Regardless what you are told the military has it's own WIC office on every post. DSS hands out fliers and many call and are helped by them. As for me I come from a very well to do family. Two cars, 3 bedroom two story ranch style home with 2 baths in a very nice quiet neighborhood. I went to good schools and My father paid for my entire college tuition. I worked in my profession for a couple of years and decided to join the military. They signed me up with a high grad bonus and agreed to pay off all the loans my father had taken out for my education. I get asked all the time why did I join? I get teased because I had never heard of ramen noodles until I went to college and the staple cup of noodles that we eat here I ate for the first time during my first tour here in Iraq. I have been told that I am to good for the Army and should be a officer or in the Air force. This has humbled me. I see what I never saw before and still don't have a true grasp on. The level of poverty that many have lived with before joining the military and some still deal with after joining is sad. This is the only way out for many. Sadly enough the extra scraps of money that we are thrown for being here and the fact we don't pay state and fed taxes while deployed are reason some join after the war began. They pray they live or then again they feel if they die their family will have 400,000. That's more than they could have given them if they were alive. The reality is sad. I ask that you continue to pray for the men and women here. I'm off to the slaughter....

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

SDE, Baghdad, Iraq — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 09:01:44 GMT

I forgot this, I am from Richmond, VA and I was telling my CPT that the people in VA were worse than those in Iraq if you were to break it down by numbers and people. Sadly enough three days later the VT shootings occured. I felt horrible and I am praying for their families. We are all following the story and no one has mentioned the debate we had again.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 13:20:21 GMT

Lee Holmes: Thanks for the info. I don't have the answer. I do agree that the gang issue is pretty well ignored and swept under the rug. But it is an issue that this country is going to have to face hopefully sooner then later. If the gangs were to suddenly invade the homes of the rich and famous I guarantee there would more attention given to the problem. I also contend that the same is happening to our military personnel in Iraq and Afghanistan. Out of sight out of mind. I recall the television shots of American boys being dragged through the streets of Mogadishu after their helicopters were shot down. That one incident brought the public to their feet and was one of the catalyst that prompted getting our troops out of there. If they were to see some of the same in Iraq up close and in full color I guarantee you the clamour to get our troops out of Iraq would double if not triple. And the Bush administration knows this. I also contend that if the majority of those fighting in Iraq were from the upper class and not working middle class there would have been a timeline set to bring them home a long time ago. Regarding educational levels, you mentioned those in Iraq have a level superior to those who served in VN. I wonder where this came from and how these people defined the term "superior". If they are using who has achieved a high school diploma that is not a telling indicator to use for such a comparison. Youngsters today can receive a HS Diploma by way of special programs. Their actual level of academic achievement is lower than those who attended HS during the VN era, but are granted diplomas today without having attained the educational level of 12th grade. I know what the passing score is on the test used by recruiters. It's not HS graduate level I assure you. In any case, both groups are being ignored, but right now I have my eye on getting the kids home that are serving in Iraq in a pointless and civil war that cannot be forced into a victory by the Uniteed States. And those in Iraq are certainly not even close to being ready for any form of democratic givernemt. The current president of Iraq will be out on his nose, or arse, within the year or sooner and eventually replaced by a religious cleric who will run the country similar to that of Iran. The movement is already under way. Mark that down on your calander and we can revisit and discuss when it occurs.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

scott henderson nv — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 14:43:33 GMT

As usual Pam, what you call facts are skewed. Cho used a 9 mm Glock 19 pistol and a .22 calibur Walther pistol, neither of which was covered under the assault weapon ban. The definition of assault weapon is: The term "assault weapon" in the context of civilian rifles has been attributed to gun-control activist Josh Sugarmann. The term assault rifle, referring to a category of rifles that are select-fire (capable of semi- or fully-automatic fire) and fire intermediate-power rounds (such as the 5.56x45mm NATO, or 7.62x39mm), which along with fully automatic pistols, provided the pre-cursor for the term "assault weapon". The military use of the term applies not to firearms but to shoulder-fired rocket launchers such as the FGM-172 SRAW or MK-153 SMAW.” I suspect you owe another apology. By the way, the ban was allowed to expire because both opponents and supporters agreed that the specifics affected by the ban were mostly cosmetic in nature.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Jamie, Chula Vista, CA — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:20:35 GMT

Lee, you have completely missed the point-but that is okay. You are accusing people of not being aware of the gangs in this country and the violence the commit, and yet you seem to want to use their hatred as a reason for us not to get upset about what is going on in Iraq. I do not condone gangs or their violence, and considering you know nothing about me except for what has been posted here, you really aren't qualified to question me. Nothing is going to change the fact that gangs have been around since this country has, regardless of whether or not they are from 'illegals.' Again, two wrongs do not make a right. I do not bury my head in the sand, much to your dismay. I can only do what I can to help organziations fight gang violence and educate my four young sons about it, however, your Boy George has taken it upon himself to send over 3,300 Americans to their deaths. It would be so easy if we could just blame everything on illegal immigrants, but we can't. No burying my head in the sand, just your average American trying to make sense of senseless violence that is perpetuated by more senseless violence and hatred of fellow human beings. PEACE!

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Jessica Eiden, Portland, OR — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 18:49:57 GMT

Thank you.

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Bill Rochester NY — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 21:35:26 GMT

Pam I only put my two cents in here and there. You, CA, Rodney, and George in New Jersey are the real heavyweights here. On a lighter note. Since we both share a Catholic education I urge you to check out George Carlin's routines on attending Catholic school. They're old from 1970-71 but they really hit home to me. They are side-splittingly funny. My friend from your posts I guess that you still practice. I do not. I officially label myself an agnostic. May I also recommend Bertrand Russell's "Why I Am NOt A Christian"

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 22:14:51 GMT

Bill Rochester NY - I most certainly will check those out. I always laugh with my sisters and friends that endured 12 years or so of Catholic school. I always tell others when questioned, "You can't possibly understand unless you went through it". I'm sure you'll agree. Yes, I still practice. Take care my friend.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Thu, 19 Apr 2007 22:17:09 GMT

Lee Holmes - As I sit here anxiously awaiting your apology for calling be "dishonest and a liar", in addition to my "dishonesty becoming an increasingly dubious trait", I continue to read your statements in amazement. I clearly proved "WHO" was dishonest in their writings here, "YOU". I also asked you another question, which you have not responded to. Do you scan multiple documents at once, transfer them to Microsoft Word, then copy and paste them in no order whatsoever? It's the only scenario that makes any sense from reading your incoherent and factually incorrect statements!!

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Don Oubre, Paulina, Louisiana — Fri, 20 Apr 2007 02:52:10 GMT

Bill Rochester NY: Don't sell yourself short i was telling Pam the other day how much i injoy reading your post, keep them coming! I am also a George Carlin fan. Thank's

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Lee Holmes — Fri, 20 Apr 2007 15:23:32 GMT

PAM-You were the one caught is such dishonesty.Not I.A complete search of NRA websites from the day of the shooting-present minute found no such comments made by the NRA as the ones you falsely attributed to them.Further,I was correct in that these particular weapons were not banned under the 1994 AWB.The ban was restricted only in the regard of these weapons to clip size and bullet configuration.Not the weapons themselves.You are not deserving of an 'apology'at this time.In fact you yourself owe one to the NRA for your dishonest twisting of what was actually said by this organization which appears on an archive COUNTDOWN thread further down on Apr.17.and which was provided with a website cited by myself.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Lee Holmes — Fri, 20 Apr 2007 15:42:13 GMT

CA-We see that high school dropouts begin appearing in large numbers after the 1968 TET Offensive[www.military.com],and continue through the 1970s ending with more stringent guidelines beginning in around 1977.[Carters service as a highly educated nuclear officer in Rickovers Navy had an influence here].1968-1977 also saw standards for those with criminal records relaxed.It was a period,particularly in 1972-1976 of low morale,high drug usage,sloppiness,[leading to tragic accidents]and frequent misconduct aimed at superior NCOs and officers.DDs and other-than-honourable discharges skyrocketed during this period,generally cited as a military 'low point'of the 20th Century comparable with the Depression-era military.This would change under the twin presidencies of Carter and Reagan.Even departing Iraq,we find that the Democratic majority is fully willing to send troops back to regions populated by the same people who now pose a threat in Iraq.Already the drumbeat is to send US soldiers to the Sudan,which,as you obliquely referenced when mentioning Somalia,is now surrounded on three sides by jihadi influences that do not include Sudan itself.Those who condemn this war are already seeking labels of a 'just war'that they will attach to the next American conflict.That more will die is a matter not addressed.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Quentin Abbot, Charlottesville, Va — Fri, 27 Apr 2007 00:10:31 GMT

The United States is the most patriotic country I've ever known. Our sons and daughters of America proudly join our Armed Forces, knowing that at any time they may be put in harm's way. The American people here at home show support for these men and women who are serving our country by displaying a yellow ribbon in the windows of their vehicles and homes. The statement has been made that a few soldiers feel like the people here at home have forgotten them. We have not forgotten any human who has given their life for the honor of this fine country. It's sad to say that many families in this country know the heartache of losing a child, in many ways, to a drunken driver, to a drive-by shooting, car accidents. We do not expect a gunman to show up at our schools & colleges, we do not expect nor accept the loss of life in such a situation. I feel that we need to remember all who have fallen in the name of honor with the draping of the colors of the Red, White & Blue. We also need to open our eyes to the fact that we lose so many here at home for not-so-honored reasons. I feel that the lowering of our flag is out of respect to all fallen victims. It's sad that any one would question an act of respect.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Sarah Elizabeth Fairfax Va — Fri, 27 Apr 2007 18:33:44 GMT

I Totally agree with Quentin from Charlottesville. God Bless our country and our Troops. Sarah

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

Anonymous — Sat, 08 Dec 2007 20:02:32 GMT

When you feel daunted because of the dreadful amount of effort it involves to uncover what you're looking for, relax because you're one step closer to your goal.

Countdown Tuesday: The Day After

fran abar, pinole, ca — Fri, 08 Feb 2008 01:41:05 GMT

Dear Mr. Olbermann You've lost me with your derisive nature to Senator Clinton. Have you counted the times you mention Obama first or if you mention Clinton it is with derision? It is so obvious that you MEN at MSNBC do not like the thought of a woman being a leader. Well, you have one less formally loyal watcher now. I do not watch you anymore.

thank you for reading this.