http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx Click for LIVE VIDEO Live from Simi Valley, California, it's the longest named event in MSNBC history: "The MSNBC, Politico.com, Reagan Library GOP Presidential Candidates Debate" Let's get it on! live blogging and discussion --->en-USCommunityServer 2.0 (Build: 60608.1)http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181340Fri, 04 May 2007 00:04:04 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181340Chris Eldridge, Harrisburg PAAs per the GOP tonight where you are bound to hear all sorts of cries about "patriotism", has every one seen this article by Newsweek's Christopher Dickey on how Nationalism is not Patriotism? "He [Orwell] said nationalism is not to be confused with patriotism, which Orwell defined as “devotion to a particular place and a particular way of life, which one believes to be the best in the world but has no wish to force upon other people.” "But American nationalism, unlike American patriotism, is different-and dangerous." "The second part of Orwell’s definition tells you why. Nationalism is the habit of identifying oneself with a single nation or an idea, “placing it beyond good and evil and recognizing no other duty than that of advancing its interests.” Patriotism is essentially about ideas and pride. Nationalism is about emotion and blood. The nationalist’s thoughts “always turn on victories, defeats, triumphs and humiliations. … Nationalism is power-hunger tempered by self-deception.” The article goes on and on about the comparison between the US and Germany circa 1939. MSNBC: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/13721928/site/newsweek/http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181342Fri, 04 May 2007 00:07:34 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181342Ron Mills, Ft. Lauderdale, FLThis From Politico's Blog David Mark in The Spin Room Five nights a week MSNBC host Keith Olbermann hosts a Bush-bashing, liberal-tinted show that can say little (or nothing at all) good about Republicans. Tonight, however, Olbermann is in the belly of the beast, a presidential candidates’ debate where he must straddle the line between opinionated talk show host and impartial analyst. It will be interesting to see how many White House hopefuls he can snag to interview during the post-debate spinfest. Nothing about all the Rebublicans Covering The Democratic Debate about 98 percent of the coverage was from Republicans http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181344Fri, 04 May 2007 00:08:22 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181344DavidMcCain cannot decide if Iraq is fixed or needs to be fixed. -- has tried it both ways.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181349Fri, 04 May 2007 00:13:58 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181349Ron Mills, Ft. Lauderdale, FLThe 800 Pound Gurrila "Ronald Reagan" is in the room They All Want to be Ronald Reagan, problem is: That will work well with the Conservitive Activist, and may even get the their Party's Nod. the rest of America, beleives if it was not for BUSH 43 Reagan would be the WORST president in American History. as a Side note all the Neo-Cons who have destroyed our County along with Bush 43, all came from the Reaagan Admin, ie Rumsfeld, Cheney, Wolfowitz Poindexter the whole ganghttp://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181397Fri, 04 May 2007 00:32:55 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181397DavidWe are not guarding the borders in Iraq. We did not send enough people to do so. Yet we blame others for the traffic across the border. Is this one of those unidentified mistakes? Are we really sure whether it is the government or a rogue faction?http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181398Fri, 04 May 2007 00:33:08 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181398Sherri, Charleston WVHuckabee says we should be good stewards and leave things better than we found it..........too bad he meant only the environment, not the executive branch.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181405Fri, 04 May 2007 00:35:19 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181405Sherri, Charleston WVWhat is with these guys? Ronald Reagan was a great American, but do we really have to evoke his name every other breath? Let the man rest in peace......http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181409Fri, 04 May 2007 00:36:36 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181409Sherri, Charleston WVIs McCain taking the same juice Barry Bonds is taking?http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181420Fri, 04 May 2007 00:41:03 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181420Sherri, Charleston WVLooks like Chris is bringing out his little tin can of whoopass on Huckabeehttp://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181458Fri, 04 May 2007 00:50:20 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181458Ken Tallahassee FLEvery time tehyve said ronald Reagan I took ashot....if this keeps up, someonecall 911...........http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181465Fri, 04 May 2007 00:51:51 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181465Steve McCloskeyVery poor questions by Chris Mathews. Let discuss real issues like social security and taxes.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181474Fri, 04 May 2007 00:55:30 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181474Bonnie, MadisonTommy Thompson just said that it would be all right for a private employer to fire a "homosexual" employee if he objected to homosexuality on moral grounds. Thompson, of all people, should know that discrimination based on sexual orientation has been illegal in Wisconsin since 1982, and Wisconsin was the first state to ban it. Is Thompson now ashamed of being from Wisconsin, or did he just forget that he presided over that immorality for 14 years? I, for one, never heard him take that position when he was governor, and when he had a republican legislature behind him with the means to change the law. I guess the fact that he would say such a thing tonight just makes him the ultimate panderer. And now he just said he would govern based on "principles and ideas," but don't forget that although he claims to be "pro-life," he is also very much pro stem cell research. To put the most positive spin on that, I guess it makes him a pragmatist, along the lines of Richard Nixon, although that's not saying very much, is it? But at least he had some concrete idea about what to do in Iraq, which no one else was able to articulate. This entire debate is a farce. John McCain said a couple of times that spending is out of control. He forgets that Republicans have controlled Congress for almost all of the last 13 years, and apparently, they aren't able to get a grip on themselves. Thompson said that he made all kinds of vetoes during his term, but he fails to mention that he left Wisconsin drowning in deficits. Now Huckabee says that it is too early to give Bush a grade on Iraq "in the middle of the exam." Wha????? Enough of this nonsense. I've got to catch a taxi and get out of the valley of Death.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181524Fri, 04 May 2007 01:05:45 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181524Gene BayerAs a small businessman I am deeply concerned with the continued decline inm the ability to actually build products here is the U.S. and being able to sell them at cost competitive with those products built overseas. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181525Fri, 04 May 2007 01:06:29 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181525Sherri, Charleston WVI couldn,t agree more Bonnie. They are all talking in abstract, like some Phantom Government was responsible for the past decade. Some of them also went beyond pitiful as to try to add "some Democrats" to the long list of Repubs caught in scandals, indictments, lies, supaenas, and every other skull cracking disaster that's come down the Kathryn Harris Turnpike. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181533Fri, 04 May 2007 01:07:53 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181533Gene BayerWhy can we not stop penalizing productive citizens by having a tax code that takes more and more of their hard earned income to support the irresponsible spending of Congress. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181557Fri, 04 May 2007 01:13:14 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181557Sherri, Charleston WVHere we go children.......Rude had trouble telling the difference between Sunni and SHia. I think they should have had to answer that one ahead of time in writing....Dems too.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181571Fri, 04 May 2007 01:16:07 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181571Sherri, Charleston WVDoes anyone have a numerical count on the Ronald Reagan?http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181584Fri, 04 May 2007 01:18:12 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181584David Has anyone heard a big idea tonight? Just one?http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181588Fri, 04 May 2007 01:19:01 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181588Laurie PedersonHow funny it is that these people believe the American people are so unsophisticated, naive and ignorant. The wealthy fall into the Alternative Minimm Tax, the wealthy people who have more 2 million dollars or more pay death taxes. Most of us will never get a tax cut by what these people are saying. How do you know when a republican is lying, his lips are moving. Mr. Paul seems to be the most honest, real and knowledgable candidate amoung the pannel. Wow he just said he would not try and regulate the internet he's my guy. My goodness Rudy is just like Hillary. They must be using the same coach. I will never vote for Hillary Clinton or any of these people http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181593Fri, 04 May 2007 01:20:32 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181593David ID cards -- there is a big brother idea!!http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181605Fri, 04 May 2007 01:23:01 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181605Barb Dawson Racine, WisconsinI just turned the TV off so the kids could play wii Why do they need the Regan stuff? Different time. Different problems. They still seem to be kissing up to the religious zelots. All life is beutiful.....unless your an Iraci, our a young american who's only option to the military is a 'would you like fries with that?" job. I geuss full birth abortion is ok in the repblican party. Tommy plzzzzz! Go away already!http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181610Fri, 04 May 2007 01:24:01 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181610Chris Casey, Steubenville, OHAre you kidding me!!!! It is amazing that not one Republican canidate has a clue of what is actually going on or for that matter in touch with reality. This has got to be the absolute bottom of the barrel for this party. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181611Fri, 04 May 2007 01:24:10 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181611Frank Meegan, Chicago ILMSNBC is doing a poor job of having the candidates names up enough when they are speaking. The name comes up for about a second, only occasionally. The public doesn't know all of these candidates by name and the best service MSNBC could be doing as a journalistic institution is allowing citizens to at least know who is speaking in the debate. Have the name up all the time or at least more than it is up nowhttp://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181616Fri, 04 May 2007 01:25:06 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181616Ashley, Baton Rouge, LAThis drinking game really, really hurts. Mentioning 9/11 in the first 10 seconds? Jesus.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181617Fri, 04 May 2007 01:25:12 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181617Chris Casey, Steubenville, OHIf this is the party of ideas, they are in a lot of troublehttp://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181627Fri, 04 May 2007 01:27:11 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181627Bonnie, MadisonAs long as we are on the subject of the national ID card, I thought it would be useful to note that Wisconsin was also the first state to prohibit the required implantation of microchips. Interestingly enough, this goes directly to Tommy Thompson's current relevance, as he is on the Board of VeriChip, which manufactures the first FDA-approved RFID chip for implantation in humans. If anyone wants to better understand the scary importance of the national ID issue, I suggest you read Ira Levin's 1970 novel "This Perfect Day." Now I really have to go, as the big balloon is waiting to carry me safely out of Oz. There's no place like home, there's no place like home, there's no place like home. By the way, Tommy, after this, I don't think you should come home.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181629Fri, 04 May 2007 01:27:36 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181629Sherri, Charleston WVIf you ain't havin any more Clinton, you sure as hedoublehockysticks ain't havin no Bush.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181658Fri, 04 May 2007 01:33:54 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181658Todd, New Orleans, LAI find that I have had to change the channel. After watching my country's Constitution being raped by Bush-Cheney for the last 6 years that my tolerance for blatant bullshit, especially Republican flavored, is just not what it used to be. I do not know who will be the next President, but I can guarantee you that he will not be any of these twisted men. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181667Fri, 04 May 2007 01:35:35 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181667Chris Casey, Steubenville, OHNational ID card is a little to much like George Orwell's Nineteen Eighty Four for me.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181669Fri, 04 May 2007 01:35:38 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181669DavidSheri; In the beginning I was wondering of Chris was going to say Ronald Reagan more than the candidates combined?http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181677Fri, 04 May 2007 01:37:30 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181677Scott, TucsonRon Paul is the only qualified candidate, and is the reason that other republicans hate him. Too bad he didn't get to talk more.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181678Fri, 04 May 2007 01:37:30 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181678Bonnie, MadisonSherri--Let's dare them to repeal the 22d amendment and see whether Bill or George wins in 2008. My money is on Bill. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181707Fri, 04 May 2007 01:44:28 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181707Darleen Medford, OregonThe sniffling into the mike was really annoying. Don't know if the offender was an interviewer or a candidate, but it really detracted from the debate.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181710Fri, 04 May 2007 01:45:44 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181710Paula NewcombPlease enlighten us as to who the Republican candidates were who raised their hands indicating that they do not believe in evolution.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181739Fri, 04 May 2007 01:51:31 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181739Brandon, Mississippiwhy can't Gravel switch sides at whim? The levels of conformity in that hangar scared me. Those candidates "frighten me. They frighten me." Somebody said something about how our country can do better. I agree. The entire field on either side is pretty much crap. Honestly, in 08? If Hagel doesn't run, I might either vote for Nader or "Other." Other being...I dunno. Myself...Trey Parker...Chuck Norris. As long as they're not as hack-y as everybody else we've seen. Maybe Stewart/Colbert? At least watching a debate with those two wouldn't make me feel like I've wasted 90 minutes of my life...http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181761Fri, 04 May 2007 01:58:13 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181761Chris Eldridge, Harrisburg PARon Paul had a position I could handle and even support. His non-interference foreign policy, he'd respect and protect for public privacy, and his last and best comment about protecting habeas corpus was fundamentally the best! Goldwater republicans like him are certainly tolerable and have the nation's best interest at heart. We are all in this together. The others quiet frankly are quite scary suggesting a NEW war with Iran as if that wouldn't be far FAR worse than Iraq is now. Iran has no such internal divisions nor has it been suffering from a 15-year arms embargo. As paul pointed out, we survived an era with 40,000 Soviet nuclear weapons pointed at us and here we are threatening to go into ANOTHER preemptive war over a third-world nation that doesn't even have any. This fear mongering has become the standard trademark of the far right republicans quite unfortunately and this is EXTREMELY disturbing. According to John Dean's book, about 25% of the human race are known to be just such "authoritarians." We actually see this play out in the blind support for the war as there is always about 25% who support it no matter what. Authoritarians (according to EXTENSIVE psychological studies conducted since WWII) are almost always likely to be the far right conservatives. Only 1% are likely to be liberal. Using this tactic of fear and hate places the far right neo-conservatives right on par with fascists and nationalists, which brings to mind how much the Nazis hated homosexuals as well. We must remember that authoritarians are NOT restricted to history or any particular borders. IT IS IN US AS A RACE! It is these people who are hungry for power at any cost (as per Orwell’s book 1984) and who deliberately provoke hate and fear as a means of galvanizing their movement.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181770Fri, 04 May 2007 02:01:31 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181770Linda Johnson, Sun City West, AZAll the candidates (rich, white men) clearly believe in the sanctity of life... just like Geo. W.... So, were do they stand on executions, on sending our men/women off to be killed on foreign soil, on not saving lives by refusing proven research tactics? They believe that the BEGINNING of life is sacred, but once born, it's everyone for him/herself! Somehow, life isn't so precious after we leave the womb, is it?http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181783Fri, 04 May 2007 02:03:43 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181783Cindy, TexasMost of them, except for Ron Paul, sound like they are ready to invade Iran in the morning. Good Lord....the shameless fear mongering of these guys !!!http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181784Fri, 04 May 2007 02:03:48 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181784Bonnie, MadisonOh, my God, the balloon took off without me and left me stranded in Oz. How ironic it seems that 10 men, all dressed as pallbearers, should find nothing inconsistent between their uniform advocacy (except for Congressman Paul) of endless killing in Iraq, Iran, and anywhere else they can think of, and their presumption in telling American women that they have no right to make their own decisions about their bodies and their lives. Where's Glinda when you need her? I so want to go home.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181802Fri, 04 May 2007 02:10:23 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181802JAM, Pittsburgh PAFrank Meegan, Chicago IL: I completely agree about showing (or NOT showing, rather) the names; I only know three of these men by sight. MSNBC, listen up! Chris M was sort of bullying the candidates down the line. (HA!) Mitt Romney came accross as the most pompous windbag on the stage. McCain seemed more coherent than in the past few months, but he's still nowhere near the level he was four years ago (I groaned after the added the bit about the Grand Canyon after answering the "Do you believe in evolution?" Q). Paul was the most passionate, but looks like he's about to wither into dust. Giuliani seemed to be out of his league. A lot of tap-dancing around questions ("Would you employ Karl Rove, yes or no?" never was answered. A few times, especially when Romney was speaking, I had to flip the channel - I'd rather watch the Pirates lose to the Brewers than listen to this garbage. Oh, and I'm glad I'm not playing the "Reagan/9-11/Iran" shot games. My liver would be crawling out for air.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181863Fri, 04 May 2007 02:44:16 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181863curious george, carlsbad, caI was curious why no one pressed the GOP candidates on their nearly unanimous hard tack on Iran. “Iran cannot be allowed to get nukes” seemed to be an agreed upon (with the notable exception of Dr. Paul) position. Why and how is Iran different that North Korea (the DPRK)? Clearly, the DPRK has been allowed to get them. I don’t ask with the view of casting blame inasmuch as the DPRK’s acquisition clearly came under both the Clinton and Bush (43) administrations. Are the Republicans suggesting the Kim Jong Il may be assumed to be more rational than the “mullahs” of Iran? How is it that Kim Jong Il has been allowed to acquire nukes and yet the leaders of Iran may not? It’s difficult to see how the DPRK can be assumed to be more “rational” than the leaders of Iran. Are they not both to be assumed to be acting “strategically crazy” (i.e., the “logic of craziness”)? Can it really be that geography only—the Middle East due to oil and/or Israel or some other criterion/criteria—is the only demarcation? Will someone explain it to me? (Please assume I’m a “six-year old” as Denzel kept saying in the movie Philadelphia. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181871Fri, 04 May 2007 02:48:04 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181871Chris M. West VirginiaCould have been better moderated as the three manchurian candidates got most of the questions and time. Ron Paul is clearly what this country needs, not more of the same. He's the voice of the people and the media should take off their earmuffs and blinders. Paul's popularity shows in the live votes here on MSNBC and in the alternative media. This is where the alternative media meets the mainstream media - it's expression vs. suppression. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181889Fri, 04 May 2007 03:05:30 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181889Leigh Bielenberg, Atlanta GeorgiaSomebody please go over the tape and identify who raised their hands when asked if they did not believe in evolution. I thought I saw at least 3 hands. I really need to know.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181902Fri, 04 May 2007 03:10:33 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181902Amy C., NCThe issue I find most frustrating is the issue of immigration, and how in these debates there was hardly any discussion (from Dems or Republicans) about our own businesses in this country who hire literally boatloads of these people--whether knowingly or not. Granted, the jobs they typically occupy are the kinds that most Americans today don't want to do; they pay less than dirt, have crappy working conditions, and some are extremely dangerous (such as meatpacking). If we are serious about the immigration issue then I think the question really becomes if we are ALSO willing to face this dark underbelly of American industry that gives incentive for (or in some cases criminally imports) illegal immigrants to live and work here in combination with tighter border control and document checks. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181908Fri, 04 May 2007 03:14:23 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181908James ColeYay! for Ron Paul! You did GREAT!http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#181926Fri, 04 May 2007 03:22:52 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:181926George, Hammonton, NJI think the debates should be run like American Idol...Since more people turn out to vote for American Idol "singers" every week than people turn out to vote for political candidates in most elections, presidential included, why not have the candidates debate, and then let the country vote?...Whoever is in the bottom three, can sing, or dance, or debate, and then the country votes again, and the candidate with the least amount of votes is voted off and is out of the race...By early to mid-2008, the Dems and Repubs will have one candidate left each and more people will be involved than in the normal election process...I really don't care who people vote for as long as they are informed and participate and vote in larger numbers than American Idol gets...Since more people vote and participate in American Idol than in most political elections, lets start voting people off the debates...just an idea...http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182016Fri, 04 May 2007 04:16:59 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182016Cindy, Texas================ Could have been better moderated as the three manchurian candidates got most of the questions and time. Ron Paul is clearly what this country needs, not more of the same. He's the voice of the people and the media should take off their earmuffs and blinders. Paul's popularity shows in the live votes here on MSNBC and in the alternative media. This is where the alternative media meets the mainstream media - it's expression vs. suppression. Chris M. West Virginia (Sent Thursday, May 03, 2007 10:48 PM) ========================= Well said Chris. I agree. I wonder what Olbermann thinks of Ron Paul. Did you notice that even after he has clearly won the most support on all the MSNBC polls and real people posting, they still didnt want to talk about him? http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182018Fri, 04 May 2007 04:18:50 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182018Chris Eldridge, Harrisburg PALinda Johnson "They believe that the BEGINNING of life is sacred, but once born, it's everyone for him/herself! Somehow, life isn't so precious after we leave the womb, is it?" That was a most EXCELLENT COMMENT! If they believed that however, they wouldn't be able to use hate and fear into scaring us to vote for them. I especially took acception with their pro-war statement that Iran is supplying so many weapons to Iraq. They are trying to PROVOKE a war by argue that Iranian weapons are killing U.S. troops when they fail to also tell you that there are also “U.S. weapons” in the hands of insurgents killing U.S. troops, as there are black market weapons from all over the world. Finding Iranian weapons in Iraq is about as surprising as finding a U.S. car in Mexico, especially since they were helping the Shiitti fight Saddam long before we even got there. Even their use of the term insurgents was specifically intended to try and implicate countries like Syria and Iran when in fact, 99.99% of the people fighting in Iraq are disgruntled Iraqis. KEEP THEM HONEST KEITH!http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182050Fri, 04 May 2007 04:50:03 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182050Richard Mayfield, Woodbridge, VirginiaDear Countdown, I find myself posting here as everytime I try to email you I get a fatal error, and know someday my computer will blow up. I havefound Mr Olbermann's comentary to be the best I have heard since the 60's and look forward to his observations when I nightly view Countdown. Though some might say this is horrible brown nosing it is't and that's my story and I am stickin to it (someone pasthe Kleenex please). Now to the point of this post. Perhaps it is tie Mr. Olberma and redes that we reber a few things about the debate tonight, and the Democratic debate a week ago...you are free to use any of these thoughts in your next comentary. All othe participants have talked abou their "years of experiance and service in goverment". We see routinly reminded by the media and politicians of "the Reagan or Clinton eras" as if refering to a dynasty, which in light of the current resident of the White House and yes, a future hopeful, it seems this is the direction this country is headed. Consider how many of today's Senator's and Congressmen are the sons/daughters of Senator's and Congressmen. If this is our view of what thisemocracy was to be,then perhaps we need to reassess our divorce from the Crown and rejoin our patrons in England. Today's party leaders seem bent on careful planning on how to maintain a control of a majority of "the seats". Afraid to be daring, original, or trying to follow the CURRENT will of the American people, instead trying to relive "Camelot" or "the Reagan 80's". If this group were in charge in te 1700's and 1800's there would never have been a Declaration of ndependence or Emancipation Proclaimation. I grow weary of career politicians sputing off about how they follow the "ideals of our Founding Fathers" when they have forgotten the Foundng Father's ideas for political leaders....hat political office was a duty (ok this is archaic) of successful landowners at retirment to give back the bounty afforded to them. In return the counry would move forward because it was led by those who knew how to prosper develope. Polotics was neverr seen as a career. As for religion it had no place in goverment, hence the seperation of church and state. Don't believe me?....go read the personal letters of Jefferson, Washington, Madison etc. available to the public in Virginia's museams and I am sure others around this country. Then read Orwell's Animal Farm, and 1984. Prior to 2004 the rest of the world was willing to forgive us 43 due to Florida. Afterwards though that forgivness wained. If we are to recapture the spirit this country was born from it is time to demand decisive results from OUR representatives, and hold them accountable for their failure to care out the will of the MAJORITY, rather then split hairs over benchmarks verses timetables verses your definition of having sex as opposed to mine. They say history repeats itself, and so it has as our goverment continues muddle itself in medocraty, domino theories, speculation about possible terrorist scenarios that are then ignored only to hype a new fear so that career polaticians can justify their "careers" paying off the voters in their districs with bridges to nowhere, or a flag flown over the Capital. Let us hope soon history repeats itself with leaders who are not afraid to do what is right rather then worry about a chaos that is already in progress thousands of miles away, while ignoring the chaos of Katrina and decimation of our military. A proposal something to appeal to everyone.....withdraw from Iraq after telling the UN we are turning it over to them to handle, and we will no longer be involved. That will please the conservatives who feel we should ignor the UN and also please the liberals who feel the rest of the world has better insights into dealing with problamatic issues, and better able to solve this things.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182078Fri, 04 May 2007 05:17:19 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182078R. Northern CaliforniaI'm hearing Mitt Romney "won" the debate. I disagree. He is just too religious to be electable. It colors his judgment in a way I don't think most Americans are comfortable with. According to MSNBC's poll, Ron Paul is the winner. Yeah, that's good.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182091Fri, 04 May 2007 05:33:06 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182091Sam, AlabamaThey all look like weasels to me.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182097Fri, 04 May 2007 05:39:21 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182097Tricia White, Indian Harbour Beach, FlOur answers lie the new book, FOLKS UPSET by the CAPITAL KARMA announced in the PR Newswire 5/2/07. We will continue to see presidential pageant style candidates who tap dance around the issues until we all agree a third party presidential candidate not betrothed to the right or the left is the best hope for our country. With a national debt near nine trillion and an income tax ravaging middle income salaries, it's time for the folks to say neither party is listening, so let's look at option #3.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182101Fri, 04 May 2007 05:52:03 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182101JAM, Pittsburgh PALinda Johnson, Sun City West, AZ - When they started talking about "the sanctity of life in all stages" I started SCREAMING at my t.v. "Then why won't you bring the troops home?!" Chris Eldridge, Harrisburg PA - Funny you should bring that point up, because after the Dems' "debate" someone posted here that if Clinton were elected, SHE would start the war with Iran. (O/T: my Pirates actually won)http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182111Fri, 04 May 2007 06:08:41 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182111JAM, Pittsburgh PALeigh Bielenberg, Atlanta Georgia: There were definitely three hands, and possibly a fourth wishy-washy, not-quite raised hand. As Countdown debated bloggers noted, "It was so fast we're not even really sure who raised their hand."http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182143Fri, 04 May 2007 07:45:55 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182143Mary, Santa Fe, New Mexico"Yes, I believe in evolution... but wait a minute, wait.. I'm not done!.... I see the hand of God in the Grand Canyon. Does that work for you? Am I in?" I too wanted to see who's hand was up for the "I don't believe in evolution" roll call, but it was a hasty side shot of them. At least Brownback was one of them.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182177Fri, 04 May 2007 09:41:44 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182177Sam, Tampa, FLTo be honest it seemed like just a promotion for a Ronald Reagan book. You watch them on a stage with the name printed all over the background setting. They must have mentioned Reagan's name about a hundred times during the debate and I just wonder if it is to get us all to forget about who is our President today? http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182178Fri, 04 May 2007 09:44:14 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182178B A Buddusky"Now there ya go again spreading terrorist like peanut butter and jelly all over us you Republican boogymen devils." You can turn out the light Osama is not in the closet unless it’s Roves closet . The debate, sounded like the next incarnation of Ronald Reagan a Buddhist? I mean these guys are all goofy, no original ideas and they are all afraid, like a bunch crack hounds? Think about it here are a bunch of guys telling everyone be afraid while our guy in office is protecting you. Rudy didn’t in NY 9/11, George didn't 2001, we haven't heard from Osama since the last election hmmm, I suppose some new tapes will emerge pre election, and yes those terms of endearment they slip in that folks don't seem to think about, insurgents, and so on.All the guys they have been calling insurgents are have now became magically al-Quida. Who knows watch out next week Bill and Hillary they may start calling them Clinton’s but actually I think they are Roves “kids” out of his mind if you know what I mean. The1000 Republican names meaning terror for the non Civil war over there the Bush Guys and Tenet and Rice screwed up.You beat it out of there pretty quick too Tommy Franks to write that book after leaving weapons laying around all over the place General sir. Praise God and pass the terror Mitt, and senior Rudy, Tell ya the guy that scares me is McCain .They got some kind of EAP program back at the Senate. He is definitely “one toke over the line sweet Jesus.” Needs some rest. PTSD? Mr. Rove boy this is looking a little too familiar. Did you get to have one of the DC madams Account Executives Mr. Rove? Oh I almost for got this. See some of the economic and defense that gets left out from President Reagan reincarnated when you boys talk looks like this. … Here is something that occurred while he was President also along with the worst recession since the depression----In order to cover new federal budget deficits, the United States borrowed heavily both domestically and abroad, and by the end of Reagan's second term the national debt rose from $700 billion dollars to $3 trillion dollars. Reagan described the new debt as the "greatest disappointment of his presidency." http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182202Fri, 04 May 2007 11:52:53 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182202LA, SeattleReagan's name mentioned over and over and over again. Geez! Am I the ONLY one that believes Reagan was not Jesus reincarnated? Does ANYONE remember the foreclosure rate, the jobless rate, the number of homeless or IRAN-CONTRA during his administration? AND, I'm sorry but just because he said, "Tear down that wall", he was NOT responsible for ending the cold war. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182295Fri, 04 May 2007 13:43:57 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182295wmholt, Madison, WIThanks for the comments. I fell asleep and didn't TiVo the debate. These remarks at least give me a flavor of what was going on. Perhaps they will have the debate video available to be viewed on MSNBC?http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182301Fri, 04 May 2007 13:49:54 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182301Pat, Boston, MAWords of advice: Don't fall for Romney. He's taken flip-flop and phoniness to a whole new level. Just looking at him gives me the creeps. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182312Fri, 04 May 2007 14:00:20 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182312doug b st louis moto la seattle not only all of what you mentioned but regan also buted unions,and your right he was not responsible foer ending the cold war!doesnt anyone remember pope john paul II's work ?the conservatives act like regan was jesus himself. he and oliver north and the rest of them should have been should have been charged with treason! keep up the good work msnbc!!!! p.s God bless josh hancock(a cardinals pitcher who died last week end)we will never forget you josh you were a great friend and a great person,we love you and will always miss you! your friend doug.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182318Fri, 04 May 2007 14:04:09 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182318Barb G, Albany NYthey had to bring up raygun, because it is too embarrassing to bring up this bush, or his poppa. i couldnt watch it at all. i just didnt have the stomach for it. according to nbc this morning, they mentioned raygun 19 times. [that all?] and i think the anti evolutionists were tancredo, huckabee, and one other southerner. there's a surprise. and of the clips i saw - could matthews just shut up, just a little??http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182323Fri, 04 May 2007 14:06:05 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182323Barb G, Albany NYBrownback. the 3rd anti-creationist. not a southerner. kansas. what was anybody expecting.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182337Fri, 04 May 2007 14:20:24 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182337Bonnie, MadisonLeigh -- In case you didn't already get your answer, it was Brownback, Tancredo, and Huckabee that claimed not to believe in evolution. And McCain did, but he didn't (which pretty much sums up McCain on every issue). In fact, if pressed, I think McCain would take the position that God has mismanaged the whole creation/evolution thing, but he would be better, if only he was in charge, even though he doesn't have a Plan B. Is that clear enough? http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182362Fri, 04 May 2007 14:33:03 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182362Susan S, Overland Park, KSSam Brownback scares me...I've written him complaining about his votes since he is a senator from my state...now I'm worrying... is he's going to come "take me behind the barn and beat me to death with a dull axe"? YIKES! He's creepy---even folksy---he's creepy!!! And Chris Mathews-SHAME ON YOU for the question about Bill Clinton---it was beneath the dignity of the context of this debate. And SHAME ON THE CANDIDATES for biting onto it---their answers were tacky, low class, low rent, trashy, and obnoxious. It was just another example of how nasty and small minded the Republican party has become. YUCKO! The American people of sick of nasty politics---WE WANT ANSWERS!!!!! It was a very much out of place with the kinds of question that needed to be asked.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182368Fri, 04 May 2007 14:37:24 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182368doug b st louis moand whats up with mitt rommneys hair maybe he should be a more like john edward and getone of those expensive haircuts!tommy thompson also weirds me out! ghouliani was stutterinsg and stammering geeze if this is the best the republicans can field they are in trouble!!i watched a little of it and got sick so i switched to vh1 classic and watched acdc classic concert and led zepplin the song remains the same that was more entertaining than the regan love fest! msnbc rocks!!http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182381Fri, 04 May 2007 14:47:45 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182381Pat, Boston, MA..."doesnt anyone remember pope john paul II's work" ... "AND, I'm sorry but just because he said, "Tear down that wall", he was NOT responsible for ending the cold war". Doug & LA: No, I don't believe the vast majority of Americans know the role the Pope played in ending the Cold War. The conservatives have been pushing this rhetoric about Reagan for years. The ending of the Cold War took years and years, through many presidencies. But it appears from all I've read that Pope Paul John II played the biggest role of all. My goodness, he started his campaign against the Soviet Union just days after WWII ended. And where was Ronald Reagan during this time? In Hollywood. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182440Fri, 04 May 2007 15:25:03 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182440Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, CaliforniaLA, Seattle - Those of us not wearing neo con blinders with the "Reagan" logo do!! Last night was a joke, and this group of collective "Reagan want to be’s" was nauseating. Both because Reagan was a horrible president, his actions displayed his utter contempt for the middle class, his Administration had more criminal indictments than ANY in history and to date, yet these bozos want to align themselves with the jerk!! Thank God 2008 will bring a democrat back to the White House and many more to the Senate. What a collective bunch of idiots!!http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182465Fri, 04 May 2007 15:39:23 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182465B A BudduskyYa did a much better job than me LA,Seattle,and Keith I have been screaming about the terms(insurgents,al-Quida,and any cracked up paranoia Republican Leaders can trying whip up folks to be afraid of in Iraq.The only thing in Iraq is a civil war,death and,destruction,and more dead and wounded Americans killed everyday,killed for the most secret mission of all,so secret no one knows what it is,so secret someone makes up a different name to call the enemy every several weeks as long as it fits the Republican political agenda.It's like they huddle up on a football team run by Wood Hayes.Play 1# play run,play 2#run,play#3 run,all runs terror,terror,terror.We'll trick em this time boys.Get one for the "Gipper."And they all learn the same play on the same day so I guess their email is working again because out they all come quacking like good little quackers,quacking the same quack."Keep it the same guys so they believe us its al-Quida this week and we can protect you" better than the end of my finger does McCain. You all need burping you been drinking too much old Reagan formula. Never have seen anything like it.All em from Senators Mitch McConnell,,the Administration the whole Republican platform ,Mitt Romney, to Rudy G this land was made on fear for you to be elected? Now how the hell does an organization like this loose emails and documents Rove.They all run the fear and terror play on the right snap count no off sides.The only thing they have lost is the TRUTH! Roll over Wood Hayes sorry about the run analogy but I didn't really care for you,Woody Guthrie yes you are reincarnated in "This Land is Made for You and Me" both of ya had guts and I did care for you. As for you Mr. Reagan I remember you well and don't think you would like these folks using your grave as a platform to run for President.I guess they forgot about the other graves, all those Marines that killed by that explosion in Lebanon in 1983 in those barracks, 220 Marines, 18 Navy personnel and 3 Army soldiers in This was the deadliest single-day death toll for the United States Marine Corps since the Battle of Iwo Jima (2,500 in one day) of World War II and the deadliest single-day death toll for the United States military since the 243 killed on 31st January 1968 — the first day of the Tet offensive in the Vietnam war. The attack remains the deadliest post-World War II attack on Americans overseas. Reagan assembled his national security team and planned to target the Sheik Abdullah barracks in Baalbek, Lebanon, which housed Iranian Revolutionary Guards believed to be training Hezbollah fighters. But Defense Secretary Caspar Weinberger aborted the mission, reportedly because of his concerns that it would harm U.S. relations with other Arab nations.Hell of a price to pay for relations.No one is going to read this no one that gives a shit. Those record deficits to finance weapons that were sawed up later you big bad defense boys,and that economic growth plan on borrowed money,and the recession of 1982 worst since the depression,the Japaneses were getting like beteween 13-14% on those long term Treasury Bonds Mr Republican Economic boys,they owned about 1/3 of all of our bonds,to finance part of that recovery along with rest of the high intrest bonds to sold to everyone,[our debt]that little market correction crash,the stock market crash of 1987 was the largest one day stock market crash in history kinda made it pucker didn't it boys.Yes those were the Reagan years as you noted LA,Seattle. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182515Fri, 04 May 2007 16:03:47 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182515Walter J. Murdock, Cincinnati OHEven though I'm not a Ronnie fan, I'd back off on their repeated use of his name comments... After all, it was his library they were in and his widow was in the front row. Of course, they're going to kiss his butt. Also, sad they had to go back 20 years to find a positive Republican... http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182520Fri, 04 May 2007 16:07:33 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182520Bruce D. York, PAHuckabee, Brownback & Tancredo raised their hands as nonbelievers in evolution. Pretty incredible, isn't it? Not surprising about Brownback as Kansas State School Board wanted to have Intelligent Design taught as part of the Science Curriculum. As a Republican who has served on a National Campaign 30 years ago, I am embarrassed for what my party affiliation has come to represent. They have abandoned all moderates who believe in: a true limited government, the rights of the individual as supreme, the Constitution, government of, by and for the people, the Geneva Convention, and the right of privacy. For shame to the Party which panders and small parochial interests and are using fear mongering to promote an autocratic, imperial Presidency. For Shame. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182581Fri, 04 May 2007 16:51:41 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182581Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, CaliforniaPat, Boston, MA - I couldn't agree with you more. I was always curious as to how a republican was elected Governor of Massachusetts, but his "flip-flopping" answers that question. However, I still can't understand why California keeps electing republican after republican for Governor. The "top three", as they have now been labeled, are not anywhere in the league of the likes of President Bill Clinton. If he were on that stage last night, he would have handed all of them "their lunch". I was VERY disturbed that Chris Mathews would even ask a question with reference to President Bill Clinton living in the White House again. I found it insulting, as he knew damn well President Clinton would be insulted, as he was; and it was without doubt unfair and an underhanded attack against democratic front-runner Senator Hillary Clinton. I was extremely disappointed with Chris Mathews for asking that question, which in my opinion, was completely out of line. Chris Mathews placed “attempts to be funny” over “character” and displayed deplorable conduct. In addition, MSNBC should have never allowed that question to be asked; and I am therefore equally disturbed with MSNBC. Perhaps the next moderator of the Democratic debate should ask "how many wives and/or divorces do you feel crosses the "moral line"? Considering the leading democratic candidates all have ONE spouse to their names, in comparison to the three leading republican candidates who have SIX collective spouses, I guess that would be an “appropriate” question right Chris Mathews? You were wrong, and your question was despicable and unwarranted. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182585Fri, 04 May 2007 16:54:21 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182585Stevie SLC UtahTo David Mark I thank God for Keith! What you call Bush bashing is what many of us call getting the truth out. Keith is the only liberal out there with the guts to call attention to the mess this administration has made. We need more people like Keith. And yes, more Jon Stewarts and Steve Colberts.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182624Fri, 04 May 2007 17:21:54 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182624Hannah Fayethe only winner in last nights unn errrr debate (yeah thats the ticket) was the Democratic party....and perhaps RON PAUL....who sounded alot like Goldwater i did win a small wager though, thanks to roooody, who invoked the spectre of Ronald Reagan more times then any other republican on that stage (besides perhaps chris matthews) I think we are seeing the clear difference between democrats and republicans in this campaign Democrats are looking for the person who can BE the best next President Republicans seem to be looking for the person who LOOKS the most like a president should look.... Best comment I heard about the debate was that Romney and rooody could star in the GOP remake of La Cage Aux Folle....with rooody in the drag roll....after that i couldnt stop hearing the theme from the play every time rooody or romney came on the screenhttp://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182662Fri, 04 May 2007 17:45:42 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182662Lee HolmesTwo lackluster debates.This can be forgiven in that this is the earliest campaign for president in the nations history[apprx.two years out when candidates officially declared themselves].The GOP,like the Democrats, largely stayed on message.There were those on both sides that strayed off the reservation[Paul and Tancredo for the GOP,and Gravel and Kucinich for the Democrats].Both sides waffled in the ''handraising''period of the debates[GOP-evolution,Democrats-guns in your home].Both sides have flipfloppers among the first-tiers[Hillary and Obama,McCain,Romney and Guiliani].Both failed MSNBCs ''truth meters''.Of the two debates placed together,Obama was still hurt the worst by his response to the ''al Qaeda bombing''question by Williams,and is still trying to regain traction as a result of that response in Iowa.The GOP however,gets props in that the debate was moderated and controlled by liberal media interests including POLITICO[which is not a rightist creature],and yet there was a full embrasure of the give and take by the Republican candidates.The Democrats to their detriment,cowardly backed out of FOX-Urban League debates in Nevada,as it was presupposed by some of the Democrats that FOX does not engage in ''legitimate news'',which is hogwash,if one removes the commentative aspect of the O'Reillys and the Hannitys,who would not have moderated the debates anyway.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182694Fri, 04 May 2007 18:05:44 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182694Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, CaliforniaLee Holmes - I'll state it again for you Lee. It was Roger Ailes, President of Fox News Channel, who insulted Senator Barack Obama with a racial slur. Ailes attempted to tie Senator Obama to Pakistani terrorists at a republican event. Do you EVER state the real facts Lee?? MSNBC did nothing like Fox News, and NO one stated Bill O'Reilly or Sean Hannity had ANYTHING to do with the DNC pulling the debate from Fox. President & CEO Roger Ailes can look in a mirror and find the person to blame for the DNC yanking the debate from underneath their "BRIGHT RED" carpet at Fox!! http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182701Fri, 04 May 2007 18:12:25 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182701Bonnie, MadisonI see that Tommy Thompson has now apologized for his "gay gaff" last night. He blames it on not being able to hear the question clearly because he lost his hearing in one ear a number of years ago. Sure. That's understandable. He couldn't hear the question, which naturally caused him to say that employers should be free not to hire gay employees if it went against their moral beliefs. Anyone could make that mistake. That's probably what caused his recent anti-semitic remarks, too. At least it wasn't because of a drinking problem. (Do these guys never run out of excuses?)http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182703Fri, 04 May 2007 18:13:59 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182703Barb G, Albany NYdare i say it - the last decent human republican to be president - Teddy R? maybe Ike. he did warn us about the military industrial complex. Postwar republicans -- uh, Nixon????? i dont think so, and then idiot Ford who pardoned him?? and then Raygun, surely the most clueless among the clueless. these toads all got state funerals! what do nixon, ford and raygun have in common? Kissinger, dumbsfeld, and Cheney. Not a trustworthy bunch, not at all. But dems need to get it and keep it together, so that the likes of these thugs dont get back in office anytime soon.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182716Fri, 04 May 2007 18:26:57 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182716Jimmy Brown, TNDr. Ron Paul clearly won the debate.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182721Fri, 04 May 2007 18:31:52 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182721S. Q., western KentuckyRe: Democrat and Republic "debates". These weren't really debates, just Q & A; but it was interesting that some dems had guns in their homes, and some repubs didn't "believe" in evolution (as if it was a religion). Next it will be, do you "believe" that human activities are altering earth's climate? or do you "believe" in the scientific method? What we need is to ask questions that get to the core of real solutions to problems regardless of "religious beliefs" or faith-based view of the facts. Using the word "believe" or belief just leads to further polarization of the issues. Stop framing questions in ways that do not lead to answers based on facts... Probably won't matter anyway b/c these people ignore facts. Both "debates" very disappointing, both parties wallow in fear, is this all we can get? http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182766Fri, 04 May 2007 19:09:45 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182766JW, ChicagoI watched the debate and found it hard to stomach at times. I would say that the Democrats won. It was as if each of them was stepping up to try to prove that he was each more ignorant than the previous.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182782Fri, 04 May 2007 19:22:22 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182782Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, CaliforniaBonnie, Madison - How right you are Bonnie!! The excuse flow faster than George W. Bush's interruptions of one incoherent sentence with another incoherent sentence!! The Republican Party, much to my delight, has a collective bunch of bigots, buffoons and complete morons competing for their criminal Party's nomination. I can't wait to see more!! Gay Rights – NOPE!! Evolution - NOPE!! Abortion - WON'T ANSWER HONESTLY!! Iraq - Can't Answer - "IT'S AN ONGOING CONFLICT!! Criminal Reagan - "The Second Coming of Christ”!! This group can and would be out-debated by a classroom of first graders!!http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182789Fri, 04 May 2007 19:32:02 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182789Lee HolmesPAM-It is unneccesary to troll these boards,never mind spamming these which is the product of an unoriginal mind.I have answered you in full on another blog-thread.[''Your Space Is My Space...''As usual,the audience need merely pick up on the original thread and follow it from there,which will include my original[and quite factual]post, and be regaled with PAMS verbal attempts to fit MOPAR parts on a FORD engine].http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#182915Fri, 04 May 2007 21:23:40 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:182915LA, SeattleDo I believe Reagan was a bad person? No. I also believe he was a wonderful husband to Nancy. But even though he has passed doesn't all of the sudden make him a great president. He was not. Being a halfway decent human being doesn't necessarily make you competent at what you do. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#183119Sat, 05 May 2007 03:03:28 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:183119Chris M. West VirginiaCindy in Texas, I'd certainly like to know what they're all REALLY thinking too but, as establishment shills, we'll probably never know.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#183362Sat, 05 May 2007 17:35:09 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:183362Christopher KulaI would love to see Ron Paul get coverage on Countdown as the only anti-Iraq War, anti-Patriot Act, pro-Habeus Corpus candidate in the GOP lineup. He may be the only Republican that could represent any challenge to a Democratic White House in 2008. Maybe this is why he is being ignored? Thank you, Countdown, for holding this administration's feet to the fire on so many issues. Ron Paul, however, should also be addressed and evaluated by the mainstream media on his own merits and his own positions. A Paul presidency -- if it were even remotely possible -- would certainly be a very good thing!http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#183654Sun, 06 May 2007 08:46:45 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:183654William Bransford, Little Rock, Ar.Sorry to bust everyones bubble but the Democrats are in the process of committing suicide on Iraq. They are full of piss and vinegar now but come the general election they will be handed their heads.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#183806Sun, 06 May 2007 19:10:43 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:183806Larry Charleston, SCLet me guess LA, the greatest presidents ever were Clinton and Carter, go figure !http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#183934Mon, 07 May 2007 04:46:10 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:183934Mary, Santa Fe, NM"I see that Tommy Thompson has now apologized for his "gay gaff" last night. He blames it on not being able to hear the question clearly because he lost his hearing in one ear a number of years ago. Sure. That's understandable. He couldn't hear the question, which naturally caused him to say that employers should be free not to hire gay employees if it went against their moral beliefs." Actually I believe the question was worst than that. to paraphrase: Do you believe that an employer, because of his religious beliefs, has the right to fire a homosexual?http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#184074Mon, 07 May 2007 14:34:22 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:184074C A, Tuscaloosa, AlLA: I have to beg to differ with you to some extent. Being a half-way decent human being is probably the most important characterestic for anyone to possess who holds the office of the President. I'll take that characterestic over all others any day even if that person may be a little shy on the side of intelligence. And that Larry-SC is why Carter and Reagan were average or better Presidents. Then you have the other side of the coin, intelligence with perhaps less (yet some) form of human decency, and that is why Clinton was an average or better President. But then you have the third category. A person who lacks both. They are the most dangerous and the least appealing to hold the office. And that is the category into which the current President appears to fall. How does one defend that statement regarding the current President? Simple. The lack of intelligence is a no brainer, and any person who is willing to continue to sacrafice American lives in Iraq lacks beyond a shadow of a doubt, human decency. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#184344Mon, 07 May 2007 18:39:58 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:184344DCohn, Cleveland, OHAnyone recently see the "Usual Suspects." What a line up. It also reminded me of an all male rendition of the "Stepford Wives." I was sure I was going to see someone's head explode. I felt so good and new there was a light at the end of the tunnel ( and not an oncoming train) when I saw the Democratic Debate. I walked away from that smiling and firmly believing in hope and a sense that good things come to those who wait. We have been waiting way too long and I could not concentrate on the Republican Debate,KO looked uncomfortable and I thought any second would vomit and I had to turn it off. I looked at the so called top three contenders, Romney ( Mitt, what kind of first name is that, let alone his son's name, Tagg), McCain ( stealing words from other people and trying to convince the viewing public, he can do the job this time) and Guiliani, ( the hero of 911 and Mr. photo op, who cant decide what side of the fence he needs to be on). I walked away feeling a bit confused, a little uptight, and wondering, God forbid we get another Republican in the White House, how soon can they be impeached? With the President's approval rating at an all time low of 28 %,I am grateful that 2008 is just around the corner. This line up was not a "Few Good Men" but it ended as for the night with "As good as it is going to get." KO, I know you have had better nights covering political events and I hope your recovery process was not too labourious, Denisehttp://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#184637Mon, 07 May 2007 22:53:23 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:184637J McD, Harrisburg, PAIt's great to see all the support on this forum for Ron Paul. I've been following him for years. He's what this country needs. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#184720Tue, 08 May 2007 00:44:37 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:184720Bob PensacolaBush and Cheney and Big Oil are now placing our troops in stationary targets, posts within badass slums. That's exactly where I would want to be, in a stationary target with some guys I can't speak too. During Nam, the Air Force put security policemen in rocker towers on the airbase perimeter. They had K-9 further out but they were in stationary targets like a frigging Christmas ornament hanging on a tree. I didn't serve in Nam but had many friends who did and one of the things the VC did was crawl up and turn around the Claymore minds and they raise a fuss and the troops would detonate the minds in their face. I don't think stationary targets is a good idea. The Shia ripped the head off a Sunni step-bro of Saddam and then send our kids into the same slums to make them be like us. Republicans are just out of their minds. Five hundred more dead Americans by September.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#184827Tue, 08 May 2007 03:20:13 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:184827Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, CaliforniaLee Holmes - No, it's unnecessary for you to lie and state factually incorrect information on these blogs consistently Lee!!http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#185795Tue, 08 May 2007 23:38:40 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:185795Jim McMichael Brandon, MSCould someone tell me WHY Ron Paul's runaway victory in the debate is being totally ignored by the "major media"? This was not the result of media savvy Ron Paul fans, but (I believe) was the result of intelligent people seeing the only living, breathing, intelligent man on that stage and voting for him. Is our press really the US equivalent of Pravda (in the bad old days)?http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/03/181257.aspx#581313Wed, 16 Jan 2008 03:11:22 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:581313M. Dedrick Chicago, ILI want to know what types of jobs the candiates are creating?  Are they more low paying retail jobs?  I have not heard one idea regarding bringing back manufacturing jobs which are needed for the US to prosper.  For my vote a candidate will have to set out a plan for revitalizing manufacturing in the US.