http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspxSome of what we're working on for tonight...Countdown found it interesting that the New York Times, JFK airport’s hometown paper, not only didn’t put the story of the alleged plot to bomb a fuel pipeline feeding that airport on its front page yesterdayen-USCommunityServer 2.0 (Build: 60608.1)http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#212612Mon, 04 Jun 2007 15:50:55 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:212612John L, Chico, CA While I want to be alert to real terror threats, I am also aware that 'the war on terror' has been used as a political sloganeering tool to exploit in a 'wag the dog' fashion whenever the administration wants to browbeat its opponents. How can we in the public know which are 'generated' threats and which are real ones?http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#212632Mon, 04 Jun 2007 16:10:17 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:212632Susan, Western KYAnother "hoax" created by the administration to scare everyone. Too obvious this time....how stupid do they think we are? Pretty stupid I guess. Do I feel safer now?http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#212647Mon, 04 Jun 2007 16:30:24 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:212647Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, INHere I am again like a bad penny; can't do any work today because of upgrades to the operating system (which were supposed to be done by 4 yesterday, noon today, now 9 tonight). I think we've got Iraq planners in our IT department today, but I digress. Looking forward to a revisit of "The Nexus of Politics & Terror." Nothing like the tried and true tactic of attempting to scare the **** out of everyone as a diversion. I'm in the middle of an Edgar R. Murrow bio; I think he would shudder at today's climate. Hope Keith was able to catch a baseball game during his time off, and YIPPEE for his return!http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#212654Mon, 04 Jun 2007 16:34:34 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:212654Steve Turner Cedar Falls IowaSo the 'War on Drugs' is now used to provide zonked-out 'Informants' for the 'War on Terror'? What's up with that? The Crackhead down the street can shaky finger you as an Al Qaeda Operative to lighten his sentence? The Cranker next door, can dream up a scenario which places you at the clandestine meeting to blow up the Victoria's Secret Catalog Warehouse, get out, and start druggin' again? Only in Dubya's Paranoid Parabnormal America. Better a Dilaudid Patriot running loose than a Deluded Terrorist? I guess we get used to it or get used by it, huh? Hey you Looney, are you on drugs? No? Well then, it's Gitmo Archipelago for you!http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#212657Mon, 04 Jun 2007 16:36:23 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:212657Kevin, Santa Cruz, Ca.If there's a real threat, Cheney will be moved to a secure undisclosed location. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#212665Mon, 04 Jun 2007 16:41:03 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:212665Independent, TexasCould Mr. Bush have used the JFK incident to invoke the "Dictator Directive"? (My not so subtle daily reminder that I really want to know why Countdown pulled the report on that directive.(smile))http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#212669Mon, 04 Jun 2007 16:42:32 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:212669Tim B, Dallas, TXJohnL: "How can we in the public know which are 'generated' threats and which are real ones?" Jaded answer: If the White House is announcing it, it's bogus. Real answer: This is why government transparency is vital to a functional democracy. Without it there is no way to know if a terror threat is real, or if the White House is wiretapping US citizens responsibly, or if the White House allowed the oil industry to write our energy policy, or if it is engaging in systematically undermining the US Justice Dept., or... well you get the picture.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#212670Mon, 04 Jun 2007 16:44:21 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:212670Pat, Boston, MATo Howard Kurtz/Reliable Sources re: Sunday's Program. I'm always struck by how many people think that just because Keith Olbermann and Bill O'Reilly's programs are on opposite each other, that their programs should be the same. Why the comparison all the time? Their programs are so different. It's called substance, or in O'Reilly's case, lack of. I never understood the need to see Keith "debate". I've been watching debates on other programs for years and all I ever get from them is a headache. For once we are able to watch someone in prime time who posseses class, dignity and intelligence. Someone who is actually trying to TRUTHFULLY EDUCATE his viewers as to what has happened to this country in the last 6 years. That appears to be the goal of Countdown. As far as I'm concerned, to have Keith and O'Reilly use the same format is similar to asking Lou Gehrig to behave like Babe Ruth, simply because they both play baseball. That would have been impossible for Gehrig to do. Howard Kurtz, why on earth does every commentator, every program need to be a carbon copy of each other? Countdown is informative and entertaining. Let's not lower the bar now, please. It's all we got. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#212722Mon, 04 Jun 2007 17:18:03 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:212722Sue; West Allis, WisconsinI'm going to refer you to my post on the previous thread where I question whether or not BushCo keeps a file of these dumb schmucks so he can always pull one out, grab 100% of the media attention (because they're too stupid or lazy to cover more than 1 story at a time) to divert from the real news out there (particularly when it's bad news he doesn't want anyone to hear)? The Fear Flag goes up again and again. Thanks for the revisit of the Nexus - stick a fork in this tactic, George - it's done.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#212725Mon, 04 Jun 2007 17:19:25 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:212725Brian, Los AngelesWolf...Wolf...Wolf!!!http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#212728Mon, 04 Jun 2007 17:22:26 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:212728beaverdambobWow, just when we thought we were safe, as the republicans keep claiming, they trot out another hoax to frieghten the masses. What a crock. Impeach, Impeach.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#212760Mon, 04 Jun 2007 17:48:30 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:212760Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, CaliforniaIn most distressing news, "14 American soldiers were killed in three deadly days in Iraq, including four in a single roadside bombing and one who was struck by a suicide bomber while on a foot patrol southwest of the capital." George W. Bush, mass-murderer, violator of the Geneva Convention, violator of International laws, suspension of Habius Corpus , violator of national laws, violator of multiple civil liberties of Americans, supporter of torture, your "SURGE" is NOT working, as those of us with ONE brain cell knew it would not!! You are a coward, stubborn, self-absorbed sub-human who cares about "legacy", which will far exceed deplorable and reprehensible!! George W. Bush, BRING OUR TROOPS HOME NOW YOU ASS!! There is NO military solution to this "Invasion and Occupation" and you are continuing to send more Americans to their deaths, destroying more American families, continuing to shatter our moral standing in the world, have made us less safe, less secure and have destroyed the reputation of the United States, viewed as the most arrogant country in the world!! STOP your campaign of mass-murder NOW!! Bring our troops home and please, do America and the world a favor, resign with your co-conspirator, Dick Cheney, immediately. Both of you should be tried for treason, amongst a host of other crimes you and your criminal, mass-murdering Administration are SOLELY responsible for!! You, sir are a swine and I want your slippery ass out of the White House NOW!! Then, I want you; Dick Cheney, Condaleeza Rice and Donald Rumsfeld immediately arrested and tried The Hague!! You, George W. Bush are no better, and a case could be made you are worse, than Milosevic and Sadaam Hussein!! http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#212776Mon, 04 Jun 2007 18:04:25 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:212776B. A. BudduskyI am telling ya when I saw this story I thought is it a boring news day.These are the same bastards that leaked Valerie Plame Wilson cover.Intel to them is like the "National Enquire," and a political convience store.Then as a citizen I wonder why does the FBI,CIA and Intel agencies allow these stories of the "fish that we almost caught out if they are supposedly non partisan organizations ..that would mean you Gonzo and Rove and Cheney.And every time someone farts in an airport it may be linked to al-Quida..or has an Iraqi parent it may be linked to al-Quida or somehow they insurged into thier own country....What the hell is wrong with all these leaks?Better yet what do they have in common.Kind of seem they came from the same source,the guys with no memories,lost hard drives, lost documents,and electile dysfuntion. They already burned Ms. Plame Wilson,put our country into an illegal war,and have trashed reputations with lies and smear campaigns.So now they are doing everthing they can to justify the wrongs they have done by we almost caught em and leaking it.How convenient.I wouldn't put it past the bastards to set up something phony but real as a way to justify all the crap they run around using to try and elect Republican their candidates.What the hell is a couple lives to them and lies to justify it?Their damn surge is working like a Russian watch.Oh that story got a second for every GI killed maybe a few more.Lets give em 30 seconds for KIA.Swoosh......If you have the time check out the American Dream.It's Carlin I know you'd Like it C A from Alabama, K.O. probably would if he hasn't seen it.It is so funny,true, and yet very sad. George Carlin hits what we have become right on the head. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkTmbkYbS60&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo%2Estumbleupon%2Ecom%2F http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#212793Mon, 04 Jun 2007 18:21:52 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:212793barb g albany nyyeah, and what happened to TB-boy?? the thing is, these people are SOOOO INCOMPETENT! if a real terror threat or attack happens, they arent going to tell us in advance. ooooooooo, scarrrrry, scarrrrry.....http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#212799Mon, 04 Jun 2007 18:28:08 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:212799C A, Tuscaloosa, AlWhen a legitimate and well planned terrorist activity is unleashed in this country we will know it as the real thing. Either the perpetrators will be foiled by their own errors and blow themselves to hell (not likely), or they will be foiled by a Joe Blow citizen or group of Joe Blow citizen's who have noted something fishy before the act takes place and is successful (more likely), or the activity will be successfully carried out (more likely). These hoaxes or fly-by-night idiots wishing to play the part of terrorists, and used by the Bush administration to claim they are being successful in their war on terror here in the States because we are in Iraq, will only cause the general public to become complacent. End our involvement in the Iraqi civil war, redeploy our troops, spend the money saved to improve our national and inter-national intelligence capabilities, to improve the securing of our borders, ports, etc., and to train highly specialized units who might be able to hunt down and kill the terrorists before they can kill some of our citizens. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#212801Mon, 04 Jun 2007 18:29:07 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:212801independent, TexasHmmmm - none of my posts are showing up. That paranoia monster is making big noises.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#212834Mon, 04 Jun 2007 18:58:00 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:212834Sue; West Allis, WisconsinBA and Pam - again you take the words out of my mouth expressing the outrage and dismay at the fools in charge of our country but also at the MSM that will spend hours of time covering Paris Hilton going to Jail. We should be seeing non-stop coverage of the White House criminals going to jail. Anyone besides me note the story that BushCo is now forbidding pictures of wounded GIs? First no pictures of flag draped coffins of our fallen, and now no coverage of wounds. Their cloak of invisibility must be as big as Jupiter by now. Don't show it, keep it, reveal it, talk about it and maybe Americans are too stupid to ask about it. And the main stream media is falling for it too. Media - please pull your heads out of your collective a$$es and report some REAL NEWS!http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#212864Mon, 04 Jun 2007 19:29:54 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:212864Jay, Warsaw, IndianaIf this "threat" was a hoax why does the MSNBC.com article about this not discussing it as a hoax, but rather a legitimate threat? That seems a bit odd...that on one area of the site it is portrayed as a legitimate threat but on another area of the site it is portrayed as a hoax.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#212875Mon, 04 Jun 2007 19:40:01 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:212875Pat, Boston, MASpeaking of baseball, we were thrilled to see that you were @ Fenway Park over the weekend Keith; hope you enjoyed the games and that you were treated with kindness, what with the rivalry and all. Two out of three ain't bad. Oh yes, and one more thing, you made quite an impression in Boston at last Thursday night's ACLU reception. Here's wishing you continued recognition for your work. I wonder what it feels like knowing you make a difference. I bet it feels great. Congratulations. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#212895Mon, 04 Jun 2007 19:52:34 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:212895George, Hammonton, NJAnother cynic speaks...since I live in New Jersey, we had the Fort Dix terror hoax or threat...one thing that amazed me was that in the video of the gang playing jihad, there were ten people playing and shooting...yet only six were arrested...60% ain't bad for Bushworld...but why no massive hunt for the other four? were they informants? were they non-dangerous jihadists? I never heard about the other four terror suspects in the video...ever..I wonder why?...plus, the gang was arrested when going to a gun fence to get their guns but neighbors said the alleged gun fence mysteriously had not been in the house the gang went to for over a month...Mohmaud, the gun fence, seemed more like a ghost than a gun runner...and there was no massive hunt for the Muslim gun dealer either...another informant? another part of the hoax? Plus, besides the stupidity of bringing the jihad tape to be transferred at the local Circuit City, would terrorists really attack a military base where everyone has guns? is armed and will fight back? And now, another threat/hoax...some experts say the fuel system would have shut itself down...some believe JFK would have exploded...whom to believe? neither story's terrorists were al Qeada or Taliban based...and the JFK gang was all in the 40s and 50s...not your typical terrorists...I want to believe Homeland Security has some clue...but Bush loves the terror card...loves to say see how safe my team is keeping America...I wish I wasn't such a cynic...anyone think this is all part of the mysterious Presidential Directive to keep King George as President in January 2009? What say you Keith and Countdown?http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#212899Mon, 04 Jun 2007 19:54:02 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:212899C A, Tuscaloosa, AlJay, Warsaw: To help clear up the confusion (and the only explanation I can possiblly think of) is that what MSNBC may be trying to imply that while a threat to blow up a fuel pipeline feeding the JFK Airport may have been real, the Bush administration claiming once again that it was their perserverance against the war on terror that saved the day is a hoax. So come this 4th of July be sure and keep a close eye on any kids in your community or professional fire-works handlers contracted to light up the sky with fire-works and sparkler displays. They might be arrested so that Bush and his administration can once again claim they foiled a terrorist plot, this time in Warsaw, Indiana. And all because we are figthing them over there instead of over here. Wait, I thought Warsaw, Indiana was here. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#212907Mon, 04 Jun 2007 19:57:30 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:212907jorgeBush & Cheney have used up and squandered the public's good will and concern with these tiresome, fictional foilings of terrorist plots. Even taken at face value all we're looking at is a few amateurs who had no chance of pulling off what they are accused of. The only thing being pulled is the public's collective leg. Does the public believe any of this? No, of course not. Bush & Cheney have lied too damn much to warrant being believed about anything. Only an idiot would give them the slightest credence. I haven't heard ONE person--not a single one--talking about this plot. Nothing. No one cares and for good reason. Oh, and how's that surge coming along Mr. President? What a jerk.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#212912Mon, 04 Jun 2007 19:59:49 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:212912Independent, TexasJay & George - I've not yet tracked down all the various links to which this item points. Do some of them say these "incidents" were hoaxes? I was getting the idea that they were being overplayed for the publicity benefit but that they were valid incidents.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#212974Mon, 04 Jun 2007 20:30:48 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:212974John, PhilaThe plot thins, kind of like the number of people watching your station. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#212996Mon, 04 Jun 2007 20:46:22 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:212996Bill Rochester NYHow come there are no terror plots in Lincoln NE, or other such places in the heartland? Why do these places get so much homeland security money to begin with? Why Oh why do the people who live in such place s scream the loudest about the threat of terrorism?http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213027Mon, 04 Jun 2007 21:01:53 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213027Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, CaliforniaSue - Thank you for the tough talk, as maybe MSNBC will wake up to what both their long-time loyal viewers, in addition to NEW ones, which have been demanding coverage!! Also, "Junior Idiot" is falling in the footsteps of "Daddy Senior Idiot", as it was George Herbert Walker Bush, who passed the first law that prohibited photos of flag-draped coffins from being photographed, shown, etc. to the media and Americans. His rationale, "it could seriously impacted American support for 'Operation Desert Storm'". The arrogant, lying and self-absorbed and "it's all about "ME" father genes, certainly were passed on to his ass of a son!! When a president sends troops to battle, and in the case of his son, Junior ass following daddy's suit is specifically designed to forever keep the personal cost of this "Invasion" from Americans. These brave men and women, betrayed by George W. Bush, deserve better. I also find it appalling that the right-wing media has covered anti-war protestors at military funerals. While there are not words to tell you how much I find these protests despicable, no matter how I feel about this war, as they are disgraceful and insensitive!! However over the weekend, I learned of a right-wing religious fanatic group (I didn't get the name as I was driving and heard it on the radio but will research it), which has been boycotting military funerals for longer. However, not because they are anti-war, they are USING these funerals to protest ALL forms of gay rights!! I don't know about anyone else; however I have NEVER seen this on Fox News Channel (FNC), while they have been providing in-depth coverage of the anti-war protests at military funerals. Let me make this VERY clear, I in no way, shape or form feel these anti-war activists have ANY right protesting military funerals and find their behavior revolting!! However, I do believe FNC should cover both. That would at least give me the opportunity to voice my opposition and disgust for both groups. I find these protests disgraceful, disrespectful and reprehensible on BOTH sides. They should ALL be ashamed of themselves!!http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213043Mon, 04 Jun 2007 21:08:23 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213043Gerald Von Riesen Parker COI am beginning to believe that President Bush is quickly becoming irrelevant. It seems that no one wants to be associated with him and every one that tries to counsel him he rejects. I would give $10,000 to set in on one of his inner circle meetings. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213121Mon, 04 Jun 2007 21:56:27 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213121Great Fan, Discouraged BloggerCountdown - Update on blog pleasehttp://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213126Mon, 04 Jun 2007 21:59:29 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213126Christina, Helena, ALI guess I chose the wrong weekend to "chillax" as my rather precocious 2nd grader would say. I am not sure of the spelling of that "word" but it perfectly described my intention for this weekend. But oh, we got word of the latest terror plot, saw that more American soldier's lives were needlessly lost in the meglomaniacs' nation building experiment, and let's not forget the brilliant plan of the Idiot in Chief to create a "new defense sheild" in Poland and the Czech Republic. OK, we're not stretched thin enough,i.e. futility in Iraq, picking fights with Iran, letting people with drug resistant diseases in and out of the country because our "brilliant" agencies STILL haven't learned how to communicate with each other(hey-use the Internets,email and the google- Georgie can show ya how; hell, just pick up the phone), the systematic dismantling of our Constitution & Bill of Rights, possible invasion of Guyana and Trinidad (don't put it past Shrub-remember, we gotta fight'em there not here), the shrinking middle class, and far too many other disgraces to list, AND now there is the threat of nuclear proliferation in Eastern Europe AGAIN! Am I stuck in a freakin' time warp? I know I may be a little behind the headlines, but I did what I intended to do this weekend-I took my son to his first concert at a local city festival, and was validated when he said,"Momma, the Gin Blossoms are cool". I need those moments to remind me that I am not outraged for just myself, but for him. I want a better world for him. One preferably with Bush & Co. in prison.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213130Mon, 04 Jun 2007 22:01:37 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213130Jim Dandy, Seattle Wa.Wow, I did not know that high level pentagon officials came to this site to discuss top secert undercover opperations. The knowledge that many posters here have attained could only have come from attending many meetings at the security department. Unless you just think you have and your just, well crazy. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213162Mon, 04 Jun 2007 22:30:20 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213162B. A. BudduskySue; West Allis, Wisconsin , you and Ms Pam as well as C A ,Todd and a lot of others write these write blogs,and write a lot better than I have ever have.I appreciate the folks at Countdown who edit these to make them work.By edit I do not mean in some denying of the 1st Amendment way. I have read your posts and think they are cool and keen.You say most of what I am thinking with much more eloquence.Check out the Carlin link if you'd like some humor regarding the American Dream.Actually it's sad but true because folks don't know it's happening to them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RkTmbkYbS60&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Fvideo%2Estumbleupon%2Ecom%2F I think some of you editors on Countdown would like it.It's only about 3.5 minutes.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213170Mon, 04 Jun 2007 22:33:50 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213170Dawn Marine MomDITTO PAM, SAN PEDRO, CA!!! I thought I was the only MAD, ANGRY FRUSTRATED ONE. Do you have anyone in the military?? I would like to see Keith cover the Adam Kokesh story on how the Marines are trying to take away his freedom of speech. Adam went on trial this morning in Kansas City MO this morning, and it has been very difficult getting ANY INFORMATION on what happened. The other story that NO ONE is touching is the CAGING issue that Monica Goodling testified to, which is a felony. Makes me wonder, are we paranoid?? Or is the media in the pocket of the adminstration. Very scary to me. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213175Mon, 04 Jun 2007 22:38:37 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213175George, Hammonton, NJIndependent...I am using the word hoax not the reports...the incidents have validity and were reported as such...I have become such a cynic as Bushworld drags on...I just question how valid both incidents were...if ten people are on video playing jihad, why did only six get arrested in NJ? Why no search for the other four? I use hoax because maybe these six people just talked about carrying out an attack...makes Homeland Security look competent...but the only reason the "terrorists" were discovered was their own stupidity of bringing a video to a Circuit City...just doesn't ring of terrorist planning to me...maybe the six alleged terrorists had no real intentions or plans...maybe the gang in NJ just went to a gun range and played jihad...they also played video games and paint ball...however, any threat needs to be taken seriously...but if 10 non-Muslim Americans go to a range and play army and record themselves, would they get arrested? The other four "terrorists" in the NJ video are still out there somewhere...no one is looking for them...like I said, I don't want to be so cynical...hoax is my term...the incidents did happen...maybe...Keith, any coverage of the Presidential Directive tonight, this week??? the blog is going to keep asking...http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213186Mon, 04 Jun 2007 22:51:25 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213186Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, CaliforniaIndependent - Countdown must be having problems today, as the blog hasn't been updated in several hours. Hopefully, they will edit and post soon. Thanks again for your support on the other thread friend!! You are great!!http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213229Mon, 04 Jun 2007 23:23:00 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213229Christina, Helena, ALBTW, The invasion of Trinidad & Guyana was just sarcasm.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213249Mon, 04 Jun 2007 23:44:06 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213249Independent, TexasJim Dandy- Cute: Oh if only it were true that such knowledge did come from that inner circle. At least we would be certain that they, in fact, HAD the knowledge. Whereas, it is a sad thing that everything said on this blog when stated as fact can be found, upon request, in the public domain. I know because I have asked when uncertain myself. Isn't it a shame that the American People know more and are more open with information that could drive sane public policy and military/diplomatic courses than our esteemed leader seems to know? (smile)http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213336Tue, 05 Jun 2007 01:14:51 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213336Sally, San Francisco, CAHow can such an intelligent man as Keith have that idiot on his show from the village voice? He is not funny, nor intelligent. This guy brings down the show no matter what low life he is commenting on.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213342Tue, 05 Jun 2007 01:22:44 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213342Sue; West Allis, WisconsinBA - thanks for the Carlin link. I just saw George Carlin last month when he performed at the local Indian Casino. Love his honesty and humor. I look forward to your posts as well - I'm glad you think mine are articulate. It's a tribute to the fine education I received from the Milwaukee Public School system and the University of Wisconsin - Milwaukee.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213398Tue, 05 Jun 2007 02:14:37 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213398chris memphis tnI believe the votes are in impeach! impeach, this should be the rally cry of all americans, Mr oberman broke it down today how the bush admin uses scare tactics to make the people afraid how ever the tables have turned no one and I mean any one with good common sence believes mr bush or his administration when they start fear mongering and creating incidents to make themselves look good, the people of the us are starting to actually wake up from a long sleep.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213401Tue, 05 Jun 2007 02:16:27 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213401Gerald Von Riesen Parker COMe thinks that the "Independent" from Texas is not quite what he seems to be. I follow a lot of political blogs and MR. Independent from Texas shows up a lot. Most of the time his comments show how dependent he is and usually are not on topic or relevant. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213405Tue, 05 Jun 2007 02:19:48 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213405J. O'Connor, Las Cruces, New MexicoI read of calls for impeachment. Nothing happens. Cheney gets retro active income from Halliburton and only a bit of disgust is registered. Rove still grins and says things are glorious and that the democrats will screw up, and no one seems to listen (even the democrats). Everyone seems to be in a sort of stupor until the Bush regime is over. Good God! why not more anger? If Bush "relieved" himself in the Rose Garden at 2 pm and got caught, maybe something would happen. But he ignores the dead from Iraq, finally thinks that global warming might be a reality and people give a sigh of relief, calls for less oil dependence but makes no suggestions or initiates a policy, and, as many of you have pointed out, stumbles along. Maybe we are all in a stupor. I just wish for once I would read or hear that the mental midget now occupying the white house would admit, he fouled up and did it big time. I guess I am a dreamer. Thank you all.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213417Tue, 05 Jun 2007 02:28:59 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213417Paul Ibsen Newark NJYou feckless idiots! Of course the so called followers of this "religion of peace " would never fathom being traitors to this nation.The real traitors are GWB and Co. Do you honestly believe that? Bush will be gone soon enough and these terrorists will still be on our case. Can you ever realise that they hate our multicutural guts . Wake up you a-holes we have a tiger by the tail and its radical Islamists, not evangelicals, hasidics, or decent muslims. We have a common enemy. But look at the blog and the cheese eaters who do hate this country and show their concern for the poor s-bags at Gitmo and the fact that a call to Pakistan might be listened to. Wave the flag or burn it ( what you really want to do) Cause your patriotism ends when you think some dirtbags ( non citizens rights ) are important than the safety of our nation. Go Mets !!!http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213447Tue, 05 Jun 2007 02:50:48 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213447Jamie, Chula Vista, CA (currently in NC)A funny thing happened walking through the airport in Atlanta last Thursday morning. Listening to the 'security' announcements, I was told that we were at threat level 'orange,' and I laughed. For the life of me I didn't know what the meant. Was an attack inevitable? Did they know something I didn't? They sure as heck didn't act like it. Orange, yellow, red, green. You see, this administration and all those that produce these 'threat' levels and announce a 'foiled' terrorist plot, ought to read that fabled tale of 'The Boy who cried Wolf.' I imagine they'd learn a lot. PEACE!http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213451Tue, 05 Jun 2007 02:57:31 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213451Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, CaliforniaDawn Marine Mom - I had a good friend whose husband was in Iraq for a year; however, no immediate family. Is your son in Iraq? I have met Jamie on this blog and feel a strong connection with her and her terror for her brother. She is a very kind person, who has served our country bravely. She, too, was betrayed by George W. Bush. As I have said, there are NO words to describe the level of betrayal of our military under George W. Bush and his criminal Administration. I'm going to research the story you told me about; as I heard a bit about it and thanks for telling me more. I try to get as much information as possible; however, with work and adult "children" in need of so much with college, etc. I am busy. I sincerely thank you, and don't worry, you are NOT STANDING ALONE!! I can't tell you how many people are aghast, enraged and want justice brought to Bush & his entire criminal group of cronies!! PEACE!!http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213465Tue, 05 Jun 2007 03:11:18 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213465Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, CaliforniaGerald Von Riesen Parker CO - What planet do you live on sir, as you are DEFINITELY blogging from somewhere other than "PLANET EARTH"!! Indepedent is "Independent" and a diplomat of the likes I have never seen before, in addition to C A. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213467Tue, 05 Jun 2007 03:13:59 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213467Jamie, Chula Vista, CA (currently NC)Dawn Marie: I need to figure out how to meet you up there at Camp Pendleton-I'm down in the south bay area of San Diego. You, your sons and their families are always in my prayers. John the silly in Philly: Dude, don't you get that your comment is, um, silly? YOU are obviously paying attention, at least to the website for Countdown-how come you're still here? Seriously. If it's so bad and/or offensive, WHAT is th point? PEACE!http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213506Tue, 05 Jun 2007 03:48:38 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213506chris memphis tnfor all of us who know mr bush and co should be in jail for the lies they told the american people to get into irac and start a war, for our brave men and women who have been serving in the lies of fire created by mr bush. all of us need to remember it was mr bush who has slowly tried to remove the constitution from the people and replace it with the patroit act has created nothing but as james madison stated If Tyranny and Oppression come to this land, it will be in the guise of fighting a foreign enemy” http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213512Tue, 05 Jun 2007 03:58:51 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213512R. Morris Escondido, CAOh my god, the sky is falling.. The Bush people are getting desperate and are attempting to find a way to ratchet up the terror card. This whole thing smells like Karl Rove to me with a little Cheney on the side. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213546Tue, 05 Jun 2007 04:53:29 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213546cliff eagleton, Harvey, IllinoisMr. Obermann: You are to be commended for your defense of the Constitution by the onslaughts of the Bush Bunch. When do you intend to furnish evidence, ask questions and point fingers at the Bush administration's successful goal to weaken our government by bankrupting it, at the same time destroying our manufacturing, technological competence through anti-'American "free trade" schemes, borrowing and outrageous indebtedness. The real unreported story is the ongoing dismantling of our factories and technology centers which is destroying our middle class and democracy for the sake of speculators, monopolies, bankers and paper shufflers. You would be a hero if you began reporting what our leaders and candidates fear to discuss. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213557Tue, 05 Jun 2007 05:22:26 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213557Linda Stokke Kent WAWow, are you people for real? What world do you live in? Do you sleep with your night-lights on or perhaps you check under your bed before you get in. And don’t forget to check your phone it might be tapped! You bunch of stinking hypocrites, so full of hatred for your fellow Americans. Since when did it become the norm to insult and slam people who are guilty of nothing more then having different opinion then your own. Or is that the way you practice tolerance and acceptance? Have you ever thought perhaps the people in power are privileged to a little more security information then the average citizen? Have you ever given thought to the fact there are really people who hate all of us just for being Americans? Why would anyone ever side with people who wish to harm your own country? I don’t care who the president is, Republican or Democrat; there is no reason to wish such ill will upon the leaders of your own country and spread outright lies. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213582Tue, 05 Jun 2007 06:09:53 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213582Independent, TexasLinda Stokke: welcome to the blog. You have raised a point I think worth answering: "wishing such ill will upon the leaders of your own country". When I first started posting to this blog, I was very careful to never be disrespectful of anyone in office. I always used appropriate titles and never used dismissive language. That slowly became subject to my rage at the abuses I see in our national government, specifically the present administration. I do think we go overboard in our language sometime in that area. I know I do. My only excuse is that Mr. Bush and his administration have been so disrespectful of the country and its constution that I get carried away. I don't know that I will be able to completely change my language specifically about Mr. Bush but I do think that it dilutes my arguments when I slip into such casual harshness and will try to change that. Now about each of the other points you raise. Pehaps you can help me understand what you are saying if I misunderstand: "Wow, are you people for real? What world do you live in? Do you sleep with your night-lights on or perhaps you check under your bed before you get in. And don’t forget to check your phone it might be tapped! You bunch of stinking hypocrites, so full of hatred for your fellow Americans." Well, no to the nightlights and bed checks. Doesn't help to check the phone as my outrage in that regard has less to do with the actual eavesdropping as with the broad net of data collection used in data mining to target investigations prior to any indication of guilt. Please explain how you have detected hypocrisy and to what "fellow Americans" we are showing hatred. (I have already agreed about the language toward office holders.) ---- "Since when did it become the norm to insult and slam people who are guilty of nothing more then having different opinion then your own. Or is that the way you practice tolerance and acceptance?" --I think if you read the entirety of this specific item under the Countdown blog, you'll see that we've alread decided to be extremely careful in expressing our views in respect for other bloggers. If, however, you are talking about expressing extreme opinions about those who have published opinions or who hold elected office, we welcome those from any position. It need not mesh with our own. I have repeatedly requested that someone from more conservative viewpoints tell me things that they are proud of in that side of the aisle. We don't hear that often. We hear more complaints than defence.--"Have you ever thought perhaps the people in power are privileged to a little more security information then the average citizen? Yes, indeed. In fact, what I can't understand if why we seem to know more than the administration, as recent revelations have made clear. My only conclusion is that we have been lied to. I am not willing under any circumstances to just "trust" anyone in office. Regardless of party affiliations. I want to know that they are actually making use of information available and are using only constitution-provided methods to obtain that information and execute policy based on it and that it has nothing to do with Democratic or Republican party requirements.---Have you ever given thought to the fact there are really people who hate all of us just for being Americans?" All the time. I'm scared to death. ---"Why would anyone ever side with people who wish to harm your own country?" Please explain to me why you think anyone here is siding with our enemies. I really don't understand that connection. Please help me understand what you mean.----"I don’t care who the president is, Republican or Democrat; there is no reason to wish such ill will upon the leaders of your own country and spread outright lies." I already spoke about the "ill will" part. Help me understand what lies you think are being spread. Thanks for your post. I hope to hear more from you.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213586Tue, 05 Jun 2007 06:22:00 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213586Independent, TexasLinda Stokke - I'm sorry I misspoke. Our efforts to improve the conduct on the blog are in another thread not this one. Perhaps you could go to the "Fighting Them There" thread to see those discussions. They are really feisty!http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213596Tue, 05 Jun 2007 07:05:15 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213596Don Oubre, Paulina, LouisianaLinda Stokke, Kent, WA; Sounds like it's you who is afraid, sleeping with "your" night light, checking under "your" bed, if you have read anything here you would know it's not the people in this blog who are afraid, as that's what this thread is about. It's people like you who have fallen for the Administration's scare tactic's, i'll give you the phone tap thingy, that's a real good possibility. The fellow american's you speak of here are the Bush Administration, they are the one's that have insulted and slammed the "American People" by implying that any one who disagrees with them, support the terrorist, but are in fact, guilty of nothing more then having a difference in opinion other than the Administration's! You state, have you ever thought perhap's that the people in power are privileged to a little more security information than the average American, "you would think so" but they abused that privilage by "lying" to, and using fear "against" the American people to push their agenda. You speak of tolerance and acceptance and pretend to denounce hate, but then that's what you have brought in here, against the bloger's, what would that make you?http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213606Tue, 05 Jun 2007 08:37:08 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213606B. A. BudduskyLinda Stokke Kent WA,... just a wee bit naive..... Look up the defintion of lie in your dictionary: ..mine has a picture of the entire Bush Administration Smiling:),if they are so trustworthy and priviledged to the information and "top secrets" why do they leak it like news to the "National Enquire" everytime it's conveinent politically or for any reason to "their" goals not the nations.Kind of defies the words "Top Secret".Cheney and Rove are suspected, highly,level red suspected of having leaked the identity of one agent with regards her and husband being at odds with the administrations war agenda and proof of nulear WMD.Ever hear of Valerie Palme Wilson and her husband Joe.They can tell you all that works.I like the guy Keith O. has on here sometime retired CIA fellow Larry Johnson,who calledd one of the Bush liars a " that twit" one time.We still laugh about that around here.Ask them about the facts or go visit some veterans hospital and ask someone there who blind or can't walk or is burned beyond recognition, about the facts and will live like that till they die and give them your ole speech about what's going on in Iraq?.Ask some Iraqi child,woman,man,or orphan,who have felt the affects of this about the facts.Just the facts of a 432 billion dollar "no new taxes deficit" you'll here in the up coming election, that you and your children and grand children will get to pay for with "no new taxes election talk" about the facts.No coverage the bombed maimed and wounded to stop this war because of its horror about the facts.Sneak the dead flag draped coffins in the back doors of Dover Air Field so we don't see the ugliness about the facts.Ask C A about the facts,ask the kid who visits these posts from Baghdad,Iraq about the facts who is in the service.The dead aren't coming back.In a couple years Dubya and the Wife will be on the ranch drinking Lone Stars and not feeling one bit of remorse or giving a shit that any of this happened.Don't tell folks on here about the facts or them slamming some cruel bastard and his cronies that has cost thousands of lives and are bankrupting this country like everything else he has touched financially.Have him pick your stocks then short them.By the way my son has a Purple Heart that is a fact.He didn't serve in the Texas Air National Guard that is a fact.He did get wounded by and IED that is a fact.As far as wishing ill.No we are wishing well for the Country and for the guys behind this to be impeached about lying to involve a nation in war.There seems to be something that just defies being an American about that,and because of it we have managed to piss off a lot of people around the world.As for Bush,Laura and that hole "sick bunch" need every prayer they can get,Muslim,Buddhist,Zen,Unity,Great Spirit,Catholic,Christian,Runes,Bones,Astrology,and every connection with the cosmic creator available.I don't have the inside track like he does in the "Rose Garden" and all,but I think by now the Karma Mamma's list is getting fairly long and heavy.That's giving them a lot more slack than have given a lot of folks.Ask a GI about the puny .5 of 3.5% missing from his check. I do care who my President IS because I want one who dosen't spread outright lies with his administration and misleads a Country into a War. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213614Tue, 05 Jun 2007 09:16:55 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213614R. Northern CaliforniaThe war on terror is a hoax. I don't believe anyone is actually fearful when a story like this is released, except maybe the dumbest, most uninformed of people (that would be FOX News watchers). Whenever you hear of some "plot" being broken up, it is because an informant or an agent has "infiltrated" then suggested the plot, leading all the "conspirators" exactly where the Bush government would like them to go, sometimes even providing the materials needed to do the job. Check your history. This is exactly what happened with the '93 WTC bombing. An FBI agent procured the bomb-making materials, provided the van to place the explosives in, formulated the plan, etc. And who is in prison for this crime? Not the agent that was responsible for the bombing! Same thing with Ruby Ridge, Waco and Oklahoma City. Homegrown terrorists? You bet they are. Government sponsored and sanctioned. Hello!!?? Wake up, America!!!http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213621Tue, 05 Jun 2007 10:06:40 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213621Paul Ibsen Newark NJNice comment Linda and very true.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213627Tue, 05 Jun 2007 10:55:35 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213627Paul IbsenCliff from Ill. nice blog totally agree with you on the loss of jobs , manufacturing, technology etc. Its happened in the last 30 years and no one has done anything to stop it. Lee Iacocca said it best we are going to be selling each other hamburgers and insurance. Disagree on Olberfrau's defense of the constitution. Would like to see him tackle your issue instead. Much more important than the fate of a jihadist at G-mo. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213650Tue, 05 Jun 2007 12:20:24 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213650Chris MemphisWe are living in a time of "Project Fear" where fear seems to out weigh common sense, as americans we deserve much better from our elected officials, we have become a nation of saber rattlers and provocateurs instead of a nation of peace this is not what our founding fathers invisioned for our great nation. Whwn this nation was founded is was founded on the Idea of a democratic republic, and some how the Idea was lost what better way to divide a country than to divide the politics.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213664Tue, 05 Jun 2007 12:40:11 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213664C A, Tuscaloosa, AlLinda Stokke, Kent: When is the privilege of having a little more security information justification to throw young troops into a policing action where they cannot always identify their enemy, rarely identify the bombs that go off and take their limbs, or try and train the same persons during the day that become your bomb makers and informants at night. "I do care who the President is". I don't want a man with a child's mind who has not experienced such war-time conditions, nor has a clue what an immoral and ill-conceived practice it is to send young people into such conditions. And to assume you do know (because you have the privilege of having a little more security intelligence than others) is a cheap, ignorant and frankly criminalistic attitude and mindset (coupled witha smirk that really says I know I am stupid but I try to hide it). As an American, a verteran who supports our troops (especially their well-being and ability to fight a real war when necessary to protect this country), I have every damn right to ridicule, slam and challenge this sorry excuse for a President and administration. Oh, and by the way, yes there are people who hate America. There will always be people who hate those with super=power status and who flaunt their wealth and especially their power throughout the world. And we, under this stupid and ugly, yes ugly administration, have been doing a pretty good job of that in the last few years. This administration has doubled our enemies by their very smart-a--, ignorant and shove-it-up-your-a-- attitude with others in the world. So take your President with privileged security inteligence and his administration and get the hell out of our way so that we can fix the mess he/they have made of this country and our reltionships with others while we fight terrorism to protect our country the right way before it is too late. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213719Tue, 05 Jun 2007 13:29:34 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213719H P BostonLinda Linda, Linda...We are not Americans we are from Mars and we are here on a SECRECT mission. So please do not scold us as un American, we do not hate you we are here to ...OH just got ....oh you are talking about the REPUBLICANS!! My error I that you were oh never mind ..right on LINDA!! I too HATE them. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213903Tue, 05 Jun 2007 15:22:06 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213903Larry BostonHere we go again. I am happy that a plot was recognized, investigated, and broken up. I am disgusted that fellow americans are disrespectful to the hard work of fellow Americans in law enforcement. To Independant in Texas, enough please with the Our Constitution is in tatters and our rights are trampled on. One question. Prove it. Please tell me how because not one person I have know has one example of any privacy or rights of their own being denied, period. Not one or two or any at all. Which of any of yours or any one on this blog has? None.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#213962Tue, 05 Jun 2007 15:49:21 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:213962Independent, TexasLarry - Boston: Good question. I agree that we should call people on broad statements. Rather than writing detail about my claims in this area, I refer you to the "Bill of Rights violations blog entry I posted at First Read's blog:http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/05/31/209985.aspx#comments. There are follow up comments after the "looonnngg" post that apply as well. Also, see SDE's entry in "Fighting Them There" item on this blog. I've asked that this be reviewed and for people to tell me if I've messed up in reciting what I believe to be those violations. I welcome your review and feedback. Thank you.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#214045Tue, 05 Jun 2007 16:22:54 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:214045Sue; West Allis, WisconsinOh goodie - people on the blog who don't realize that the Patriot Act doesn't have anything to do with patriotism and that our constitutional rights have all but disappeared. They are spying on you and me and everyone else in America. Your email - scanned by a data mining computer; your phone calls - ditto; your financial data - ya, that too. Remember the Ashcroft hospital visit? It wasn't to bring him flowers and wish him well after his surgery - it was an attempt to get him to sign off on a continuation of domestic spying that is such an offense to every American that even John Ashcroft refused to sign off on it (interesting that it was so extreme that even an extremist like Ashcroft wouldn't go along with it). We are searched, scanned and examined every time we get on a plane; anti war protestors and administration opponents are routinely placed on No Fly Lists; and the Fear Flag gets raised every time there are questions about the invasion of our privacy or the loss of our rights or when the news cycle starts on a story that the administration wants to distract us from. We can't even get within a mile of any administration official if we wear the wrong t-shirt, carry the wrong sign, or speak anything other than their talking points. I think the only right we have left is the right to not be forced to house British soldiers in our homes. Wake up folks, it's become midnight in America.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#214128Tue, 05 Jun 2007 16:52:04 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:214128Independent, TexasLarry Boston: one more thing - violations don't have to happen to me personally or, in fact, to any one I directly know for me to feel outrage. "...if you do this to these the least of us, you do it to me.." Very loose paraphrase of a verse in the New Testament.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#214297Tue, 05 Jun 2007 18:05:40 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:214297C A, Tuscaloosa, AlLarry/Boston: I can think of several thousand Americans whose rights have been violated by this administration. Those that come to mind immediately whose rights have been violated as human beings and who have the right to expect a fighting chance for some sort of survival are our young military personnel. Those shipped to a country to serve as an occupational police force and who are expected to provide security for the same folks that are making bombs to kill them, acting as enemy informants while at the same time being trained by our troops, and for those embroiled in a civil war brought on by the US invasion. How have their rights been violated. By not being assigned a mission that serves and protects the US where they have a chance to use what they were trained to do. To act as soldiers against an enemy they can see and/or identify, that they can distinguish from the general population and that they have a ghost chance in hell of defeating. Constituional rights? There are rights that run deeper than Constituional Rights. There are the rights our committed US Service personnel have to expect sound and logical leadership and judgement when they are sent away to serve and protect this country. That basic human right to have a chance to live. And this administration has violated these rights. Kind of like the ignorant, stupid and overly-zealous Captains or Lieutenants ordering their units to advance down the middle of a road or pathway in the jungles of Vietnam. And often times their unit's reply, "up yours, we are soldiers but we are not stupid". Believe me, Bush and this administration have unfortunately lasted a lot longer violating these basic rights of survival than did these Captians or Lieutenants. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#214398Tue, 05 Jun 2007 18:53:57 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:214398kouroshIf Keith who is fighting Bill O. for rating and gets nowhere is the star of MSNBC, then the whole NBC is in trouble. People might listen and watch junkies like Keith on the web, but don't pay any attention to his program on MSNBC. That is why even NBC is last in ranking of major networks. People can see through the cracks of NBC how anti-American this network has become. Keith has ranked Bill O. as worst person on the planet 100 times by now, but still his veiwership compare to Bill is at .02% level. Way to go Keith. The funny thing is MSNBC ranked JFK airport news as the most watched program, and Keith think the plot is not worse discovering. What a contrast between those LeftOver Marxists who write the nightly hot air against Bush for Keith and the real news.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#214417Tue, 05 Jun 2007 18:58:15 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:214417kourosh, Detroit, MIIf Keith who is fighting Bill O. for rating and gets nowhere is the star of MSNBC, then the whole NBC is in trouble. People might listen and watch junkies like Keith on the web, but don't pay any attention to his program on MSNBC. That is why even NBC is last in ranking of major networks. People can see through the cracks of NBC how anti-American this network has become. Keith has ranked Bill O. as worst person on the planet 100 times by now, but still his veiwership compare to Bill is at .02% level. Way to go Keith. The funny thing is MSNBC ranked JFK airport news as the most watched program, and Keith think the plot is not worse discovering. What a contrast between those LeftOver Marxists who write the nightly hot air against Bush for Keith and the real news.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#214633Tue, 05 Jun 2007 20:27:26 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:214633George, Hammonton, NJLarry in Boston...do you really think the government is going to show and tell us what information they have gathered on us though warrantless searches of our phones, email, and regular mail...the warrantless searches do violate the fourth amendment...you may have heard of it...if not, "the right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probably cause." If you or your friends have flown in the last four years, all your/their information is now in a flying habits data base...surely you or someone you know has flown...you can look it up Larry...and don't expect a register letter for the government stating the information was gathered illegally..are you really that naive Larry? There is a documented case of an organization, American Friends Service Committee, a nonviolent organization, who had four FBI agents show up in Colorado and question them about why they wanted to assemble at the 2004 RNC...the first amendment is suppose to guarantee citizens the right to peacefully assemble and the right to address grievances against the government...the FBI agents asked Sarah Bardwell, a member of the group and college student “Are you planning to be involved in any criminal acts at the national convention? Are you aware that if you assist or know anybody planning any criminal acts and do not report them, it’s a crime?” How did the FBI know the group was going to assemble? Why did the FBI feel it had to threaten the group into not exercising its first amendment rights? Was it because they wanted to picket the RNC? Another example of the first amendment being abused during Bushworld...here's a link to the article...http://www.wsws.org/articles/2005/may2005/aclu-m20.shtml....I can go on and on Larry...even our Google searches are being tracked...did you read about all the abuses of the Patriot Act by the FBI? Do you really think the abuses have stopped after the slap on the wrist? Read Bush's signing statements that state he can ignore the laws of Congress...another violation of the constitution...here's a grea link...http://www.boston.com/news/nation/articles/2006/04/30/bush_challenges_hundreds_of_laws/.....as for precedence in our country of the constitution being raped, how about the four students killed at Kent State?...how about the 110,000 Japanese citizens placed in internment camps without due process?...habeas corpus was repealed for those 110,000 people...no habeas corpus for the four dead college students...what happened to the students' first amendment rights of peacefully assembly and the right to express their grievances against the government Larry?...our country has raped the constitution before...and Bushworld is raping it now...wake up Larry...http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#214714Tue, 05 Jun 2007 20:59:57 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:214714C A, Tuscaloosa, AlKourosh-Detroit: Detroit is cool. Like the Tigers and Pistons and Red Wings. But Kourosh, after reading your post I was wondering who writes the hot-air against Bush sentiments for 70% + of the American people who feel he is doing a not-so-good job as President. I undertand that Keith may have ghost-writers for his show and they may lean somewhat to the left, but what of those verbal and written opinions of so many Americans. Are 70 + of Americans LeftOver Marxist? Gosh, if that is true no doubt the Dems will win the 2008 Presidential race by a landslide. Or could it be there is a high percentage of RightWing NeoCons that are abandoning your boy GW. In either case sounds like Keith is right on target with the majority of the Americans, and most likely right on target with the majority of those from Detroit. http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#214726Tue, 05 Jun 2007 21:05:57 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:214726Independent, TexasGeorge Hammonton - that's great! Would you mind going to the link I provided in my response to Larry? It details each of the rights (along with preceding paragraphs). Your review, correction, agumentation, and general feedback on that would be greatly appreciated. I'm trying to bring it into coherent document form but am waiting for feedback before I do that. The question "How is the Bill of Rights being Violated" is legitimate and we should document specifics somewhere. Thanks,http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#214880Tue, 05 Jun 2007 22:42:22 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:214880Bob PensacolaWho names somebody Scooter? Scooter should dig graves at Arlington with Wolfowitz and Pearl and everyone at the American Enterprise Institute and the Heritage Foundation. Take them out there daily and make them dig graves by hand for the dead G.I.'s they're slaughtering right now in a Sunni slum to steal Iraq's oil reserve. Get them up every day at sunup and make them dig graves on their hands and knees.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#214939Tue, 05 Jun 2007 23:23:29 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:214939George, Hammonton, NJHello Independent Texas...I pasted your post into a word doc...will look it over and make some comments...give me a day or two...not to make your nervous...I was an English professor for twelve years!!! no pressure!!! lol...read the link to Bush's signing statements and ignoring the laws of Congress...truly amazing...talk soon...http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#214953Tue, 05 Jun 2007 23:29:08 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:214953George, Hammonton, NJCA...my friend...long time no chat...gotta say, I am disappointed in you...I stopped pushing your candidacy for President in 2008 and you disappeared for awhile!!! I was hoping nothing happened or was wrong...glad to see many CA posts again...I got you a beat up ol' farm truck to campaign in...one slight problem...it has farm tags and can only travel for farm business!!! lol...I tried my friend...wanted to say hello...HELLO...enjoy your posts...the revolution starts with you my friend...and the gang of bloggers here...let the revolution begin...glad you are back CA...http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#215254Wed, 06 Jun 2007 02:36:48 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:215254Stephen MarderThis administraton is truely scum. This releasing of terror threats, and supposed foiled terror plots every time the administration's oposition is doing something is so obvious, but alot of people still don't get it. It seems to me that finding convictable crimes committed by this administration is like finding jelly beans in a candy store. When are these newly elected suits gonna take care of this? An unreasonable amount of damage is being done every day Bush is still in office. Keep pointing it out Keith!http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#215513Wed, 06 Jun 2007 11:20:49 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:215513parishogfanKourash-- Could it be that Fox (as in clever, but not necessairly true) appeals to people who like their news jazzed up, that those folks who believe it like to ponder at length Paris' looong days in the pokey (or non-pokey in her case)? Could it be that people who watch KO have to have attention spans longer than the average mosquito on speed, because Keith does use polysyllabic words, and Keith also has commentators who lend credence to stories aired. (I'm typing this slowly to accomodate those who don't read well------- is it working?) later http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#216215Wed, 06 Jun 2007 20:28:26 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:216215Kay Livingston Cayce, SCI called attention to the "terror threats" and low numbers for Bush a couple of years ago. I sent this info on to a friend so he could check it out too. I'm hoping W goes away as soon as he can. I no longer trust anything the government tells us. Isn't that a wonderful legacy "it" is leaving us with.http://thenewshole.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2007/06/04/212572.aspx#223730Tue, 12 Jun 2007 19:33:08 GMT8a5d2dbc-a0e4-4c7a-979f-3188051f228e:223730Greg, West Palm Beach, FLDid the News Hole die?