Deja Vu All Over Again

Tom, Mathis, JC, NJ — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:17:10 GMT

BAGHDAD - The U.S. command said Wednesday the highest-ranking Iraqi in the leadership of al-Qaida in Iraq has been arrested, adding that information from him indicates the group’s foreign-based leadership wields considerable influence over the Iraqi chapter.

Khaled Abdul-Fattah Dawoud Mahmoud al-Mashhadani, also known as Abu Shahid, was captured in Mosul on July 4, said Brig. Gen. Kevin Bergner, a military spokesman.

“Al-Mashhadani is believed to be the most senior
U.S. says top al-Qaida in Iraq figure captured
Al-Mashhadani was reportedly an intermediary between bin Laden, others

Iraqi in the al-Qaida in Iraq network,” Bergner said. He said al-Mashhadani was a close associate of Abu Ayub al-Masri, the Egyptian-born head of al-Qaida in Iraq.

More progress in Iraq

Deja Vu All Over Again

Lumen, Bane of Typos and The Never Right Wing, The Internets — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:23:19 GMT

Hey there, Sounds like you have quite a telecast lined up for tonight.

Just thought I would point out that your webmasters better get on the special characters on your front page in the word Deja Vu and it seems the Quotes on the "Insert Name Here" Girl need to be altered. What can I say, I'm a classic nitpicker.

Other than that, looking forward to a great showing tonight. Thank you for being one of the few news shows that prides itself on news and not airhead anchors feeding us crud like Paris Hilton. Looking forward to the Cheney Admin. Info. He's the sole reason people should be scared of just impeaching bush. We need to knock both of those fools outta the park and kick America into Damage Control mode. They obviously don't realize that in being a politician, they are playing around with more than just their own reputations.

Oh yeah....First post! ::Does the Dance:: ^_^

Deja Vu All Over Again

Ian Patton, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:33:15 GMT

"Homeland" - why does that word give me the creeps ...

Deja Vu All Over Again

Pessimistic in Portland Oregon — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:34:02 GMT

So King George plans to leave office with everything put back to where it was before he came in? How thoughtful of him.

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Sue, West Allis, Wisconsin — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:34:29 GMT

On a different thread, lookie lookie what the House Oversight Committee has dug up:

It seems that all those nice political cronies that BushCo put in charge of Federal Government Agencies have been doing a heckofajob in helping their Repugnikant candidates win elections in 2006. Even Karl Rove has a smile so big you can see it from behind his balding head.

Yuppers, folks, these lovely agencies have announced grants, made appearances and been oh-so-helpful to 18 vulnerable Repugnikants in the months just prior to the 2006 elections.

Read all about it:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/07/17/AR2007071701892_pf.html

Henry Waxman, Chairman of the House Committee, believes that this is just the tip of the iceburg at how Federal Agencies and taxpayer money were used for grants and to ferry their shills for the political purposes of the GOP.

Stay tuned - we haven't heard the end of this.

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Ian Patton, Edmonton, Alberta, Canada — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:34:41 GMT

I think John Fogerty said it pretty well.

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Pat, Boston, MA — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:37:07 GMT

Since George W. Bush took office, the United States has sunk to unprecedented lows in sports and pop-culture domination.

By MIKE MILIARD
The United States of America is a nation with a proud history. A proud history, that is, of kicking ass in sports and shoving our own peculiar brand of pop culture down the throats of every other country on the planet. But since a certain Texan took office in 2000, it has been our ass that has been kicked on playing fields around the globe and our throats that have been choked by the cultures of other nations.
Coincidence? Consider the events of just the past few weeks. The NBA finals pit a team led by an American player — the Cleveland Cavaliers’ LeBron “King James” James, much hyped as the next Michael Jordan — against the San Antonio Spurs, a team featuring a bunch of foreign guys. The foreign guys blew out the team with the American superstar, and the MVP of the series was Tony Parker, who was born in France. Yes, France.

2008’s presumed Democratic presidential front-runner, Hillary Clinton, after much ballyhoo, finally chose a campaign song. Her quest for the presidency — that’s president of America — will take Celine Dion’s “You & I” as its soundtrack. It’s a mawkish tune which a) sucks, and b) was originally written for an Air Canada commercial and is sung by a chanteuse from Charlemagne, Quebec, which, I’m pretty sure is north of the 49th parallel.

And in May, the nation — as it now does every year — came to a halt to watch the finale of American Idol, a show that crowns a young American under-thirtysomething as the cream of our national singing crop. What can be more American than that, you ask? Hmm. Perhaps a show less Simon-ized. Idol was created by Simon Fuller (a Brit), developed by Simon Jones (a Brit), and has as its de facto figurehead and true star Simon Cowell (a Brit). Co-executive producer, along with Fuller, is Nigel Lythgoe (a Brit). Happy Fourth of July.

The problem, as LCD Soundsystem’s James Murphy is wont to say, is that we’re losing our edge. America’s once unshakable global hegemony is slipping, even when it comes to the shit we’re supposed to be good at. We suck at sports. There’s precious little originality in our art, and, when there is, it’s rarely as good as that produced by artists in other countries. Whereas once we were properly accused of cultural imperialism, today’s USA resembles a junkie searching for a fix from some country — any country — that can come up with a reasonably good facsimile of American culture. Give us your British rappers, your Japanese baseball players, your Australian actors.
If the 20th century was “The American Century,” the 21st is shaping up to be anything but. It’s hard not to notice that our plummeting place in world affairs coincides roughly with late 2000, early 2001. Is it unfair and perhaps disingenuous to lay America’s utter ineptitude at the feet of George W. Bush? Maybe. But he’s screwed up pretty much everything else he’s touched so far. And with his approval ratings as dismal as they are — 27 percent, with a bullet! — we might as well. Another Mission Accomplished.
*************
But we are rich. We just have no soul anymore. Which to me equals lack of inspirational leadership.

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Independent, Texas — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:39:09 GMT

Is "DJ VU" one of those inside jokes like the "internets"?

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jen,il — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:40:12 GMT

Nothing makes me angrier than this administrations failure to kill Osama Bin Laden. Apparently all you have to do to get away with the murder of 3000 American citizens is hide in the mountains. Ted Kazinski hid in the mountains and we found him with out the military, but that was under a compitent president who gave a sh**.

Everytime I see photos of troops in Iraq, I wonder why aren't they in the mountains of Aftganistan and Pakistan finding Bin Laden. Instead of pretending to be supporting a government in Iraq that is going on vacation for a month. Our founding fathers did not take vacations in the middle of the revolutionary war.

Of course they haven't killed Bin Laden because they need someone for us all to fear. That's why they try so hard even now, to mention him with Iraq as often as possible. They know the flaw in thier logic is that Iraqis want us out of thier country and if we left Iraqis would kill all the foreign fighters in thier country and have the civil war they have already started. Al Qeada wants to terrorize us here, but there is oil in Iraq and none in Aftganistan. So they pretend if we don't fight in Iraq that Iraqis will come here and terrorize us. Which is nonsense, but it keeps thier friend getting billions of dollars in defense contracts and oil revenue. They don't care if Al Qaeda attacks again. They will just use it as an excuse to attack Iran and declare martial law.

Impeachment is to leanient for these guys. They should spend the rest of thier lives doing hard labor in Levenworth.

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Independent, Texas — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:45:24 GMT

RE Fitzgerald: Did I miss it somewhere? Wasn't he supposed to testify before congress? Did that happen?

Deja Vu All Over Again

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:45:46 GMT

Remember that the Democrats make up the smallest minority of our armed forces, and Liberal Democrats are almost non existent in uniform. -
Wayne, M'town TN (Sent Tuesday, July 17, 2007 10:23 PM)

As usual, here I go again stating the facts regarding those "cowardly liberals" who, according to Wayne, are "almost non existent" in the military. Hypocrisy calling Wayne....Hello, Wayne…

DEMOCRATS:

Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71; David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72; Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72; Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade; Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam; Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-'47; Medal of Honor, WWII; John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V Purple Hearts; John Edwards: did not serve; Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea; Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam; Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-1953; Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74; Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91; Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII, receiving the Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons; Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze Stars, and Soldier's Medal; Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit; Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart; Bill McBride: Past candidate for Florida Governor, Marine in Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V; Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star; Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57, Chuck Robb: Vietnam; Howell Heflin: Silver Star; George McGovern: Bomber pilot, many missions, Silver Star & DFC during WWII; Bill Clinton: Avoided service with student deferments. Entered draft but received 311; Jimmy Carter: Annapolis grad. Seven years in the Navy; Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953; John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18 Clusters; Tom Lantos: Said to have served in Hungarian underground in WWII, saved by Raoul Wallenberg; Wesley Clark: U.S. Army, 1966-2000, West Point, Vietnam, Purple Heart, Silver Star. Retired 4-star general; John Dingell: WWII veteran; * John Conyers: Army 1950-57, Korea.

REPUBLICANS:

Dennis Hastert: did not serve; Tom Delay: did not serve; Former House Whip Roy Blunt: did not serve; Bill Frist: did not serve; Rudy Giuliani: did not serve; George Pataki: did not serve; Mitch McConnell: did not serve; Former Senator Rick Santorum: did not serve; House Minority Whip Trent Lott: did not serve; DICK CHENEY: did not serve. Had "other priorities"! Several deferments, the last for wife's pregnancy; John Ashcroft: did not serve. SEVEN deferments to teach business; Jeb Bush: did not serve; Karl Rove: did not serve. Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The "man”, and I use that term loosely, attacked Max Cleland's patriotism; Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve; Vin Weber: did not serve; Richard Perle: did not serve; Douglas Feith: did not serve; Eliot Abrams: did not serve; Richard Shelby: did not serve; Jon Kyle: did not serve; Tim Hutchison: did not serve; Christopher Cox: did not serve; Newt Gingrich: did not serve; Donald Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as aviator and flight instructor; George W. Bush: six-year National Guard commitment (in FOUR years); questions about his service remain!!; RONALD REAGAN: made war propaganda movies; Gerald Ford: Navy, WWII; Phil Gramm: did not serve; John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross; Bob Dole: Army officer WWII; Chuck Hagel: two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, Vietnam; Disgraced and now in prison Congressman Duke Cunningham: nominated for Medal of Honor, Navy Cross, Silver Stars, Air Medals, Purple Hearts; Jeff Sessions: Army Reserves, 1973-1986; JC Watts: did not serve; Lindsey Graham: National Guard LAWYER; George Herbert Walker Bush: Pilot in WWII. Shot down by the Japanese; Tom Ridge: Bronze Star for Valor in Vietnam.

SUPREME COURT JUSTICES:

Antonin Scalia: did not serve; Clarence Thomas: did not serve. My personal favorites!!

PUNDITS & PREACHERS:

Sean Hannity: did not serve; Rush Limbaugh: did not serve; Bill O'Reilly: did not serve; Michael Savage: did not serve; George Will: did not serve; Paul Gigot: did not serve; Bill Bennett: did not serve; Pat Buchanan: did not serve; Bill Kristol: did not serve; Kenneth Starr: did not serve; Michael Medved: did not serve.

Well, well, well, Wayne, those “cowardly liberals” sure outrank those “brave neo cons” - HAH!! The republicans can wrap themselves in the American flag until they are mummified by it; however, their military service records tell a very different story! With the exception of “some”, it's very interesting, and equally nauseating to listen to and watch which party and people “wrap” themselves in the American flag!!

Hypocrites!!

Deja Vu All Over Again

C A, Tuscaloosa, Al — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:45:57 GMT

Six + years and barely a dent against terrorism if any at all and the terrorists orgainzations as well the Sunni and Shiite have us bogged down in Iraq while the terrorists grow stronger and more brazen and outspoken. We played right into their hands by invading Iraq so that our military is kept busy trying to run down car bombers and suicide bombers while the main terrorists groups grow stronger and threaten the US. Talk about being in a position of getting caught with your pance down. Imagine being confronted on more then one front at this time with our military personnel worn out trying to act as policemen in Iraq. Yes sir, the terrorists had a pretty good idea how Bush would react and welcomed him to Iraq to take pot shots at our troops while growing stronger in Iraq as well as in other parts of the world. Bush is making progress in Iraq against the terrorist some would have you believe (give me a fu-k'n break). We are supposed to have hundreds of top-notch marketing and advertising professionals in this country some of which I assume work for our government, but the terrorists and their #200 black market purchased video cams whip our ass everytime on the PR front. It's not the equipment stupid but the message. Bush the aggressor and occupier is being whipped in the PR game by the poor and down trodden terrorists who are winning converts. This will go on and on and on until we elect a leader who knows how to better the terrorists at their own game. Bush is an amateur, no, not even an amateur. And those military brass who know better just go along with this idiot for fear of losing their jobs.

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Daniel N, Washington, DC — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 16:49:09 GMT

Sorry Keith. Barack only spent 4.8 million more then Hillary, has more on hand, and he spend the majority of the 3 million of that money on staff. Staff that will be helping to build a ground game in key states. Seems prudent to me.

Deja Vu All Over Again

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:01:06 GMT

Remember that the Democrats make up the smallest minority of our armed forces, and Liberal Democrats are almost non existent in uniform. -

Wayne, M'town TN (Sent Tuesday, July 17, 2007 10:23 PM)

As usual, here I go again stating the facts regarding the "cowardly liberals" who, according to Wayne are "almost non existent" in the military. Hypocrisy calling Wayne....Hello, Wayne….

DEMOCRATS:

Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71; David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72; Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72; Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade; Bob Kerrey: Lt. j.g. Navy 1966-69; Medal of Honor, Vietnam; Daniel Inouye: Army 1943-'47; Medal of Honor, WWII; John Kerry: Lt., Navy 1966-70; Silver Star, Bronze Star with Combat V Purple Hearts; John Edwards: did not serve; Charles Rangel: Staff Sgt., Army 1948-52; Bronze Star, Korea; Max Cleland: Captain, Army 1965-68; Silver Star & Bronze Star, Vietnam; Ted Kennedy: Army, 1951-1953; Tom Harkin: Lt., Navy, 1962-67; Naval Reserve, 1968-74; Jack Reed: Army Ranger, 1971-1979; Captain, Army Reserve 1979-91; Fritz Hollings: Army officer in WWII, receiving the Bronze Star and seven campaign ribbons; Leonard Boswell: Lt. Col., Army 1956-76; Vietnam, DFCs, Bronze Stars, and Soldier's Medal; Pete Peterson: Air Force Captain, POW. Purple Heart, Silver Star and Legion of Merit; Mike Thompson: Staff sergeant, 173rd Airborne, Purple Heart; Bill McBride: Past candidate for Florida Governor, Marine in Vietnam; Bronze Star with Combat V; Gray Davis: Army Captain in Vietnam, Bronze Star; Pete Stark: Air Force 1955-57, Chuck Robb: Vietnam; Howell Heflin: Silver Star; George McGovern: Bomber pilot, many missions, Silver Star & DFC during WWII; Bill Clinton: Avoided service with student deferments. Entered draft but received 311; Jimmy Carter: Annapolis grad. Seven years in the Navy; Walter Mondale: Army 1951-1953; John Glenn: WWII and Korea; six DFCs and Air Medal with 18 Clusters; Tom Lantos: Said to have served in Hungarian underground in WWII, saved by Raoul Wallenberg; Wesley Clark: U.S. Army, 1966-2000, West Point, Vietnam, Purple Heart, Silver Star. Retired 4-star general; John Dingell: WWII veteran; * John Conyers: Army 1950-57, Korea.

REPUBLICANS:

Dennis Hastert: did not serve; Tom Delay: did not serve; Former House Whip Roy Blunt: did not serve; Bill Frist: did not serve; Rudy Giuliani: did not serve; George Pataki: did not serve; Mitch McConnell: did not serve; Former Senator Rick Santorum: did not serve; House Minority Whip Trent Lott: did not serve; DICK CHENEY: did not serve. Had "other priorities"! Several deferments, the last for wife's pregnancy; John Ashcroft: did not serve. SEVEN deferments to teach business; Jeb Bush: did not serve; Karl Rove: did not serve. Saxby Chambliss: did not serve. "Bad knee." The "man”, and I use that term loosely, attacked Max Cleland's patriotism; Paul Wolfowitz: did not serve; Vin Weber: did not serve; Richard Perle: did not serve; Douglas Feith: did not serve; Eliot Abrams: did not serve; Richard Shelby: did not serve; Jon Kyle: did not serve; Tim Hutchison: did not serve; Christopher Cox: did not serve; Newt Gingrich: did not serve; Donald Rumsfeld: served in Navy (1954-57) as aviator and flight instructor; George W. Bush: six-year National Guard commitment (in FOUR years); questions about his service remain!!; RONALD REAGAN: made war propaganda movies; Gerald Ford: Navy, WWII; Phil Gramm: did not serve; John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross; Bob Dole: Army officer WWII; Chuck Hagel: two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, Vietnam; Disgraced and now in prison Congressman Duke Cunningham: nominated for Medal of Honor, Navy Cross, Silver Stars, Air Medals, Purple Hearts; Jeff Sessions: Army Reserves, 1973-1986; JC Watts: did not serve; Lindsey Graham: National Guard LAWYER; George Herbert Walker Bush: Pilot in WWII. Shot down by the Japanese; Tom Ridge: Bronze Star for Valor in Vietnam.

SUPREME COURT JUSTICES:

Antonin Scalia: did not serve; Clarence Thomas: did not serve. My personal favorites!!

PUNDITS & PREACHERS:

Sean Hannity: did not serve; Rush Limbaugh: did not serve; Bill O'Reilly: did not serve; Michael Savage: did not serve; George Will: did not serve; Paul Gigot: did not serve; Bill Bennett: did not serve; Pat Buchanan: did not serve; Bill Kristol: did not serve; Kenneth Starr: did not serve; Michael Medved: did not serve.

Well, well, well, Wayne, those “cowardly liberals” sure outrank those “brave neo cons” - HAH!! The republicans can wrap themselves in the American flag until they are mummified by it; however, their military service records tell a very different story! With the exception of “some”, it's very interesting, and equally nauseating to listen to and watch which party and people “wrap” themselves in the American flag!!

Hypocrites!!

Deja Vu All Over Again

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:01:56 GMT

Countdown - Excuse the double post - hit submit twice!!

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Tom, Mathis, JC, NJ — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:10:52 GMT

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Independent, Texas — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:12:18 GMT

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 12:45 PM)

Jeez Pam - 2 days in a row - you are hot, girl.

Where on earth did you find that info? Was it already compiles somewhere or did you do it yourself?

Really good job.

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mad in Madtown — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:14:00 GMT

Awesome post, Pam. We can always depend on you to do the research. Thanks a bunch!

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G. Moore, Springfield, IL — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:14:01 GMT

C A, Tuscaloosa, Al

Your numbers are in-accurate 14+ years is what you must have meant.

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Pat, Boston, MA — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:18:21 GMT

Pam, me too - great great post.

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Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:19:13 GMT

Bottom line Mrs Madeleine Albright's mission was a failure, because it had no teeth. Much the same that Hitler promissed the world that he would not continue hais acts of agreesion after he anexed Austria and Czech. - K. Collins, USN (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 11:58 AM)

K -

I was most definitely NOT a failure; however, let's say it was for sake of debate (although I strongly disagree).

Please explain to me why Condaleeza Rice and this arrogant Administration has REFUSED and repeatedly to talk to Kim Jon-Il?

This, sir, is just ONE of many examples of an Adminstration who truly believes they eat something other than the rest of us; as they feel their shit DOES NOT STINK!!

I disagree with you completely about former Secretary of State Madeline Albright!!

PEACE!!

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Jason R, Richmond, VA — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:20:24 GMT

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California

Left out Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and Keith O.
Don't they even get to be mentioned. People want to know?

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Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:20:49 GMT

Independent & mad in Madtown -

Thank you. I constantly research these things to have the TRUTH ready to combat the lying neo cons!! It sure came in handy with Wayne!!

It's also accurate, but feel free to check Wayne!!

PEACE!!

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Wayne, TN — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:32:37 GMT

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Suzanne H, Austin Texas — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:33:20 GMT

Help! This blog has been invaded by conservative Republicans!!!!!

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Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:34:19 GMT

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California

Left out Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and Keith O.
Don't they even get to be mentioned. People want to know?
Jason R, Richmond, VA (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 1:20 PM)

NO I DID NOT - RE-READ SIR!!

"Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade; Bill Clinton: Avoided service with student deferments. Entered draft but received 311"

I copied and pasted it for you, as I'm sure you won't re-read; however, I suggest you read something thoroughly BEFORE commenting!!

PEACE!!

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Flipkid, Blue State — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:38:37 GMT

Off your meds again, Larry in Charleston?

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K. Collins, USN — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:50:27 GMT

P

Can't speak for Mr's Rice, Only her staff. Congratulations Assistant Secretary of State Christopher Hill for you work on bringing the North to the table in dismantleing their reactor.

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Frederick Sweeney, Brooklyn NY — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:51:38 GMT

About the men in the above listing who have or have not served, Stephen Ambrose, the late historian, in his book "Citizen Soldiers" had a wonderful quote from a front line sargent, " The guys who talk the toughest are always the ones who were never in combat". That may not be exact, but that's the gist of it. Ain't that right, George, Dick, Karl?

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barbinalbanyny — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:52:28 GMT

thank you pam. that list should be published every day, in every newspaper and on the web.

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Jason R, Richmond, VA — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:53:01 GMT

Did I Miss Mr.Olbermann also in your line up?

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jen,il — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:57:09 GMT

Wayne- Maybe what Pams post proves is that they may not be liberal democrates going into the military but they become liberal democrates when they leave. The military teaches that your squad is only as good as the least among you. A liberal priciple if ever there was one.

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Jason R, Richmond, VA — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:57:53 GMT

According to an Army Times Poll of Professional military men 60% are Republican, 205 are Independent and 13% are Democrats with the remainder listed as other. Liberal Democrats are almost absent from the serving military.
Wayne, TN

I think we has talking about registered voters as a whole. Not just the 20 to 30 people that Pam listed who are serving (or did serve) in office.

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Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:58:23 GMT

Wayne, TN (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 1:32 PM)

Truth hurts Wayne and statistics DON'T LIE!! You are NEVER correct!!

PEACE!! Continue living in you world of lies and spewing factually incorrect data!! No one believes you Mr. Bad Hand!!

CIAO "Cowardly Neo Con"!!

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Pat, Boston, MA — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 17:59:41 GMT

Re: A small sample of who is serving in our military -

Cp. Jose Gutierrez, first soldier to die in Iraq. According to talk radio and "some" in the US Senate, he was a law-breaker with no respect for America.

He was an "illegal" immigrant. He lost his parents in a war, lived on the streets and then in a home for orphaned boys before coming to USA. Went to high school, community college, then joined the Marines to serve "his" country, save for college and money to support his sister. He was 22 when he died.

Currently approximately 35,000 non-citizens are serving in the US military and about 8,000 enlist each year.

I haven't heard any complaints from the conservatives as far as these men serving in our military.

Deja Vu All Over Again

jen,il — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:00:49 GMT

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Flipkid, Blue State — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:01:20 GMT

"Left out Bill Clinton, Al Gore, and Keith O.
Don't they even get to be mentioned. People want to know?"

OK. folks, I'm confused about something here. Since when did the validty of a person's opinion hinge on whether or not they ever served in the Military?

And before anyone ambushes me, no, I have not served in the Military. The draft was abolished the year before I was eligible, and I chose not to volunteer.

Is my opinion about Iraq/Iran/the "War on Terror" (HAH!) any less valid because I did not serve in the Military? Are politicians that did not serve automatically less effective than those who did serve?

You don't have to have poked your eye out with a fork to know that it wouldn't be a good idea to do so.

And while we're on the subject, I resent the implication that Dubya's vacation in the Air National Guard (when he actually showed up, anyway) qualifies him to be a better CIC than I would be.

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Christina, Helena, AL — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:16:59 GMT

If you are nit-picking Wayne, what percentage of the Republicans are "social-conservatives", "neo-consevatives", "compassionate-consevatives",& "centists"? Also what percentage in the poll of Professional military clarifies the standing of the rank & file, not lifers? I would like to know the specifics, as you have on so many occassions admitted that you pick apart words. Where are the sub-catagories of each pary? I have never heard of the National Liberal Democratic Party here in the U.S., nor have I heard of the National Neo-Conservative Republican Party. Also, you state that the Democrats make up the smallest percentage, when the Independent affiliation is given a strict numeric value, and not a percentage. Also according to your post the segment listed as other is given no percentage you just state that "other" rounds out the poll. So 60%(R) + 13%(D) + 205(I) + x = 100% of surveyed Professional military men in an Army periodical. It appears that your assertion contains a flaw.

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Larry Charleston, SC — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:17:00 GMT

Pam, check the news from the weekend - won't find it on Keith O. North Korea shutting down reactors and want to talk. OOPs , Bush right again. Liberals are suchignorant fools.

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Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:24:43 GMT

Jason R, Richmond, VA (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 1:20 PM)

Keith,

I apologize about exposing your age; however, it is meant to defend you against the neo cons, i.e. Jason R, Richmond, VA (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 1:20 PM).

Keith Olbermann was born January 27, 1959, making him forty-eight years old. America’s participation in the Vietnam conflict occurred from 1959 to April 30, 1975. Therefore, Keith Olbermann was ZERO when the conflict began and was just sixteen years old when it concluded.

I’m going out on a limb here; however, I believe his age made him ineligible to serve in Vietnam sir!! Nice try though!!

Next??

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MK Indianapolis — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:25:18 GMT

Awesome job Pam!

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Michael, Philadelphia, PA — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:28:00 GMT

Ian, "homeland" gives me the creeps also. Every time I hear it I want to puke. It sounds so much like the Nazi's use of "fatherland" and the Soviet's use of "motherland." Coupling that with the actions of this criminal administration and the word justifiably gives one the creeps. Why didn't they come up with some other title with "national" in it? It wouldn't give people visions of storm troopers banging down doors like "homeland" does.

Deja Vu All Over Again

C A, Tuscaloosa, Al — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:28:49 GMT

Wayne, TN: I saw the same poll. That 60% of the professional military personnel were republican, 13% are Democrat, 205 Independents and the rest other. The rest of the poll indicated that 60% of the republican professional military personnel felt that Bush was doing a terrible job in the war on terror and in Iraq, 13% of the Dems felt the same way along with 205 Independents and all the others. According to the poll what that indicated is that right wing neo-conservatives mistakenly elected to the office of President are all absent minded as to how to use the military appropriately.

Deja Vu All Over Again

Michael, Philadelphia, PA — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:31:41 GMT

Deja Vu All Over Again

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:40:43 GMT

Thank you so much Pam for your 12:45 pm post. Did you eventually end up just copying and pasteing "did not serve" during the Republican/NeoCon list? ;) I've always found it most interesting that the biggest war hawks, more often than not, have never served. Go freakin' figure...

Once again, Pam, YOU ROCK!

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Frederick Sweeney, Brooklyn NY — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 18:50:41 GMT

Can we get Jim Webb nominated? At least he's honest enough to call a pig, a pig. Love how he took down Sen. Graham last week. Do any of these pro-war guys really think they're getting a look at how things really are in Iraq? I've got one nephew over there on his 2nd go round and another training in 29 Palms,
please, God, protect them all.

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Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:01:32 GMT

Flipkid, Blue State (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 2:01 PM)

It matters when the majority of those who sent our brave men and women to Iraq, including the “Architect” Paul Wolfowitz himself, in addition to those who continue to support George W. Bush's policies in Iraq, to include TV pundits, NEVER SERVED in the military, even when their “Country called upon them.”

I hope that explains why I posted this, as Wayne STILL refuses to answer C A about serving in Vietnam.

Those that refused to serve in Vietnam, avoided the draft, received multiple deferments, etc. defend this illegal invasion of Iraq, yet they have never served one day in the military or in combat.

It's called hypocrisy!!

PEACE FRIEND!!

Deja Vu All Over Again

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:05:17 GMT

Christina, Helena, AL (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 2:16 PM)

Awesome post friend!!!!

PEACE!!

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jen,il — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:05:27 GMT

Larry, When was bush right the first time?

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Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:08:34 GMT

thank you pam. that list should be published every day, in every newspaper and on the web.
barbinalbanyny (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 1:52 PM)

You're welcome and I agree!! It just might shut up the TV pundits, i.e. Hannity, the Comedian Rush and O'Reilly who have ruthlessly supported this war AND George W. Bush!!

They all SMACK of hypocrisy!!

PEACE!!

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jen,il — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:10:42 GMT

Pat, One of our soldiers who was abducted in Bagdad is married to an "illegal alien". She was set to be deported because her husband could not testify on her behalf. Do you have any idea what happened to her? The story disappeared after a day.

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Bonnie — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:12:35 GMT

Re Cheney: About time that Countdown got back to the basics of the energy "industry" meetings. Even beyond the fact that no environmental groups were involved in these meetings, how can Cheney claim "executive privilege" as to these meetings when (1) private citizens were involved and (2) Cheney himself is evidently not a part of the "executive" branch (these two things taken together meaning apparently that no one who attended those meetings is even covered by the privilege). The answers to who attended these meetings and what they talked about are still important keys to understanding what is going on in the Middle East today. Keep it up, Countdown. Don't let this rest.
Re Fitzgerald: Am I missing something or does this just confirm Gonzales' total obliviousness, incompetence, malfeasance, and/or non-involvement in the administration of the Justice Department (any of these meaning he should be removed)?
Re the "Money": I could speculate that Obama's spending habits may be driven by (1) the fact that he is so far behind in the polls in some key states, and (2) the fact that he has so much more money to spend than other candidates. In addition, it may relate to how his contributions have been designated between primary and general elections. I'm not necessarily for Obama, but if he has to spend it now, then he should, especially when he is behind. It won't do him any good in the general elections if he loses the nomination.
Finally: Good job recently at keeping up the blogsite with interesting stuff. But more frequent postings could avoid so much repetition of the same basic ideas and make the threads a little easier to follow (this latter concept being more important than the former). This used to be such an easy blogsite because of the clear organization, quick postings, and easy readability. More recently, however, the threads have become almost unintelligible for a sporadic visitor like me because I have no idea exactly what the messages are responding to and no time or interest in going back to reconstruct peoples' private conversations. Just a comment, though.

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Jamie, going crazy in CV, CA — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:15:01 GMT

Sigh! Okay, here is a Liberal Democrat that indeed did serve her country for 20 years. I also know a lot of 'liberals' that have served or are serving now.

That being said: Are you people talking what they are 'registered' as, or just in general? I certainly know a lot of people that are registered Republicans-and it really does go with the territory in the military-however, they didn't vote for Bush in 2004, and they feel their party has been taken over and given a bad name. They may have been for the initial invasion, but they are against it now and want to come home or have our troops come home.

Okay, I don't know everybody in the military, and I also know that any polling done hasn't every polled single person in the military. I also know that depending on where you are and who's asking the question, you may not get a direct answer (like taking a survey in the military where they can narrow you down just by demographics-zap-you don't really answer the way you feel).

When you're in the military, there is no form that you sign stating your political affiliation-religion yes-politics, NO!

Anywho, it doesn't matter anymore what party military personnel are registered with, what matters is that A LOT of them are sick and tired of being at war or worrying about going back to war.

PEACE!

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Christina, Helena, AL — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:18:09 GMT

jen,il (3:10pm):
She got her green card.

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Jamie, Elmwood Park, IL — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:18:20 GMT

This is the same administration/defense department who, according to a USA TODAY report refused to supply our troops with the MRAPs (Mine Resistant Ambush Protected) vehicles proven to deflect IEDs and save lives.(IEDs are responsible for 55% of all combat deaths.) Better yet, our soldiers were given armored Humvees (cheaper but not nearly as effective) but we supplied some of these better, much safer vehicles to the Iraqui forces.
So tell me again how those of you who support this war can defend not protecting our soldiers?
Sixteen (long) months and counting.

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Wayne, TN — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:18:32 GMT

From Military Times

"The 2003 Military Times Poll reveals a military more conservative, more Republican, and one that considers itself to be morally superior to the nation its serves.

The figures add fuel to a debate, ongoing since at least the end of the Vietnam War, over whether there is a gap in attitudes between America and its military and whether that is a cause for concern. Especially troubling, some observers say, are indications that military members do not believe the nation's civilian leadership has their best interests at heart.

The poll found:

• About half described their political views as conservative or very conservative; four in 10 called themselves moderate; and only 7 percent called themselves liberal.

• More than half called themselves Republicans, and just 13 percent said they are Democrats. Recent polls of the general public show the nation evenly split, with Democrats, Republicans and independents making up about a third of the population each.

• Two-thirds said they think military members have higher moral standards than the nation they serve. More than 60 percent called the country's moral standards only fair or poor
"
I'll look for later Polls.

From the NIE report
"We assess that greatly increased worldwide counterterrorism efforts over the past five years
have constrained the ability of al-Qa’ida to attack the US Homeland again and have led
terrorist groups to perceive the Homeland as a harder target to strike than on 9/11. These
measures have helped disrupt known plots against the United States since 9/11.
• We are concerned, however, that this level of international cooperation may wane as
9/11 becomes a more distant memory and perceptions of the threat diverge."

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Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:19:47 GMT

Did you eventually end up just copying and pasteing "did not serve" during the Republican/NeoCon list? ;) - Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 2:40 PM)

LOL!! Darn though!! Great suggestion, now why didn't I think of that? NO, I typed it each time, though it certainly went faster with each name, as evidenced by how many times it was appropriate to use!!

PEACE FRIEND!!

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Frederick Sweeney, Brooklyn NY — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:22:43 GMT

Can our conservative friends actually look someone in the eye and say that this Adminstration has done a good job? I like the different point of views on the blog, but c'mon guys, you can't let your blind hatred of "liberals" make you think that this country has been run well the last 6 years. Domestically or internationally, and Larry, I think the fact that North Korea is starving to death has a lot to do with why they're willing to shut down the nukes.

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Wayne, TN — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:25:33 GMT

PS
That would be 20% rather than "205" Independent the shift button of this keyboard is stiff.

Of the Veterans that the Democrats are so proud of at least two have publically confessed to having committed War Crimes including murder of civilians.
Democrats seem most proud of the murderous thugs who try to shift responsibility for their crimes onto others and smear the entire Military.

PS
Remember, the Military vote went overwhelmingly for Bush.

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Linda, the Boondocks, rural Kentucky — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:27:57 GMT

Army Times Poll of Army Men: Wonder what the Poll results would be for Army WIVES!! Considering a lot of them are using FOOD STAMPS to feed their kids while their Army Man is serving our brave Commander In Chief in the Hellhole of Iraq or Afghanistan, I'd venture a LOT of Army Wives are DEMOCRATS or totally disgusted, fed-up Republicans or Independents who are sick of how their loved ones have been ill treated & mistreated by the Bush Administration!

TV Guide's July 23rd issue, Rochell Thomas' "Is It Just Me" page has a piece about the Lifetime TV series "Army Times" -- which has the wife of a Colonel hanging out with spouse of a private. Yeah, right! Is the Army Colonel's wife having to use Food Stamps? Is Condoleeza Rice having to use Food Stamps? She has plenty of money to go shopping for expensive Shoes in New York, when she should be doing her Job!
I'd sure like to see such a separate Poll, just of the Wives of our Troops serving in Iraq.

Deja Vu All Over Again

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:28:10 GMT

Wayne, TN (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 3:18 PM)

Copy and paste all you want; however YOU ARE WRONG!! I am comparing those who served their country vs. those who didn't or refused to when called upon. The stats you copy and paste mean ZERO, NIL, NOTHING – GET IT??

The majority of those who refused to serve, i.e. Dick Cheney, Paul Wolfowitz, etc. sent our brave men and women to fight a pre-emptive war when NOTHING was needed pre-empting!!

Get over it Wayne - YOU LOST - AS USUAL!!

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Buzz — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:38:18 GMT

Wonderful job, Pam. Someone should put out a list showing which political party contains the most "me-first" bastards and A**-HOLES. No, wait- I think we already know, don't we?

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Michael, Philadelphia, PA — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:38:51 GMT

Uh, Larry the shrub is following Clinton's plan from the late 90's that he ignored for 6 years and allowed the North to get nukes. I would say the shrub is a day late and a dollar short, but better late then never. Try again on anything the shrub was right on. I can't come up with one thing.

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Larry Boston Ma — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:42:57 GMT

Can someone tell me why one night the terrorist threat to the country is a joke to Keith and weeks later it is now a real threat. How can keith have his cake and eat it too. He cant seem to make up his mind and that fact is glaring. I have little hope of thais being posted as almost none of my comments do. I just felt that as a Veteren and retired fire officer I may have some valid points to make.

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Pat, Boston, MA — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:45:46 GMT

Re: the capture of the terrorist (Khaled Abdul)earlier this month. Isn't this what the war on terror was supposed to be about? Hunt down and capturing these terrorists? Do hundreds of thousands of innocent Iraqi's need to be killed in order to fight our war on terror?

Do we invade our own states when searching for criminals? No. We use intelligence and resources. We don't blow up the whole gd state.

Am I wrong?

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Wayne, TN — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:49:17 GMT

Heres a link to the most recent Army Times Poll I can find at this time.
This Poll would predate the Surge.
http://www.militarycity.com/polls/2006poll_iraq.php

More than half of serving US Military believe we should be in Iraq.
Confidence varies on each issue. Less than half disaprove of Bush's handling of the war, even before the surge.
More than half approve of Bush as President.

Also apparently far fewer US troops have had multiple deployments to Iraq than the Press would have you believe.

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Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:57:44 GMT

Linda, the Boondocks, rural Kentucky (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 3:27 PM)

My prayers, form this point on, will also include you and your family.

God Bless!!

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Jamie, Chula Vista, CA — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:58:13 GMT

"The 2003 Military Times Poll reveals a military more conservative, more Republican, and one that considers itself to be morally superior to the nation its serves."

That was then and this is now. I know how many of my military friends and family members (my husband & brothers included), are still 'registered' Republicans, however, party affiliation doesn't mean party approval, and I know for a fact that they are digusted with what a majority of Republican polititians have done since 2003.

This is 2007-over four long years of war, and you might take another poll that military folks say they are still registered as a Republican, but I can almost guarantee you that they don't approve of Bush nor his policies in Iraq.

Deja Vu All Over Again

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 19:59:51 GMT

Michael, Philadelphia, PA (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 3:38 PM)

Thank you Michael, as you are 100% correct!!

Thank you former President Bill Clinton - YOU ROCKED!! (and still do today)

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Don, Denver, CO — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:05:51 GMT

Hey Wayne of TN:

Your Army Times Poll is not very valid and also does not include all branches of the military. -

http://www.windsofchange.net/archives/005663.php

So, when you say

Remember that the Democrats make up the smallest minority of our armed forces, and Liberal Democrats are almost non existent in uniform. -
Wayne, M'town TN (Sent Tuesday, July 17, 2007 10:23 PM)

It's an opinion not based on facts and, frankly, is plain stupidity.

Please cite a valid poll for this view instead of an invalid one taken three years ago because I would love to see it. Secondly, it is very typical for Armed Forces personnel to keep their political opinion to themselves as they do not have the same freedom of speech protection that the rest of the US population has (I do come from a military family, brother & father served in Navy with niece in the Army who is in Iraq, and if she dies, I will never ever vote Republican again). And before you become critical of me, the military will not take me as I am Type 1 diabetic.

The reason being is that they are not allowed to be critical of the "Commander-in-Chief".

So Wayne, just like FOX noise you report something as fact that is quite frankly, your opinion.

I also feel, having met many persons in the military, that they tend to reflect the nation as a whole (my opinion).

Please Wayne, although you are Conservative, we are all Americans and this Administration and persons like you have polarized this nation to its own detriment.

And when I see ignorant posts like the Larry Charleston SC post, it makes me laugh how incredibly clueless people take very complicated situations like this "War on Terror" and make very ignorant, stupid simplistic comments with personal attacks against people who feel differently. Again, we are all Americans and America has had both liberal and conservative elements throughout our nation's history.

Finally, when I hear politicians claim that those opposed to this war are for "losing the war in Iraq," they are being very disingenuous as all Americans want to defeat terrorism and want to again, like we used to, have more allies than enemies and lead our allies to create a more democratic world.
No one is for losing except those that are for a policy that has proven to create more terrorists & more enemies, and make our military less effective and probably as weak as it has been since it was created.

Finally, to those that say Bill Clinton "didn't try" let me remind everyone of a fact, Clinton was being impeached while at the same time attempting to kill Osama, you know, the one who actually did attack this country. Mr. Clinton was accused of "wagging the dog" because Conservatives accused then-President Clinton of trying to create a conflict to take the country's attention away from his legal problems. When, in actuality, he was attempting to avoid a "9/11" based on the intelligence at the time. Ironically, President Bush did not attempt to, at any time before 9/11, stop Osama in any way.

By the way, Osama is still out there, this war was a disaster and has made us less safe, and most people with any intelligence understand that.

Don

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Larry Charleston, Sc — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:08:11 GMT

Sorry Pam, your list means nothing. WEBB might be the only qualified one to speak on behalf of the liberals, but Lindsey Graham handed him his lunch on Sunday. Give a complete list of every member of Congress for a comparison, don't pick and choose. The numbers will speak for themselves. A little more research please. If you post a complete list of every member of both the house and senate and whether or not they served then we can discuss. PS General Clark is a member of neither House nor Senate. If you want to include people who say they are lib / Republican and put them on the list , I'm sure you lose. Nice try. And once again, research how North Korea came to last weekend without the wonderful Albright. Bush policy wins again , get over it.

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Independent, Texas — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:10:04 GMT

Hey Pam - re your research about who served in the Armed Forces.

Maybe you would know something. How exactly does one know "the Military VOTED overwhelmingly for Bush".

What data is available for that since all votes go to local districts and are not counted separately? Since you are the research maven maybe you'd know how to find that information?

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Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:11:05 GMT

Jamie, going crazy in CV, CA (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 3:15 PM)

Great post friend, you ROCK!! Also, take it easy down there and get some rest from packing. I will miss you and also envy you!!

PEACE!!

Deja Vu All Over Again

Andrew, Montgomery, AL — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:13:31 GMT

Alright, the United States can't attack a disputed border region in Pakistan due to Sovereignty, you know where I'm going with this. This is cowardice on the part of this administration, to not go after an enemy that is so hostile, so vile, so ridiculous, and say he's not important, what was Iraq for? I don't even think they (William Kristol, Cheney, Yoo, and so many others from AEI) could even consider the after effects, there was no reason, just to "flex" American muscle and get their (remember this is Cheney's country) oil reserves. Look where this has gotten our country, and for the democrats to say, impeachment is off the table, they must collectively take a step back and look at this. The United States attempted quite possibly the stupidest military action in its history at a turning point in history with thugs and morons at it's helm. We invaded an Arab Country (with more than one Islamic sect vying for control), with two clear factions, and we expected no resistance, how stupid could Rumsfeld, Cheney, Feith, Kagan, all be?
Did no one bother to do any research? Americans paid for the stupidity of members of this administration with their lives, and will continue to do so. Why is all the attention off the real threat? Why did the media shift to Iraq with the White House? Oh, Bush will be vindicated, will he? Who went down with Vietnam? He's not a leader, no Truman (as much as he likes to think of himself in those terms), he's not competent and he's not surrounded by staff that is competent enough to deliver fair information to him.
This era will be remembered but not for good works, but for terrorism and ignorance in the face of it.

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Larry Charleston, SC — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:14:16 GMT

Jen, When he called Kerry an asshole ! LOL

Actually, "W" has been right alot - stock market over 14000 and I'm making money. Employment high, still got my job. And when he declared liberalism dead. RIP

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Pat, Boston, MA — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:22:36 GMT

The US occupation in Iraq has killed and maimed thousands of Americans and hundreds of thousands of Iraqis. It has destroyed an ancient country. It has allowed the theft of billions of US resources.

Why is this a good thing?

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Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:42:57 GMT

It's an opinion not based on facts and, frankly, is plain stupidity. - Don, Denver, CO (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 4:05 PM)

Don, Welcome to "Wayne's World"!! He's really a piece of work!! I usually have my scroll bar on "ORANGE ALERT" and never read his stupidity anymore; however, that line about the military was at the bottom of a post yesterday!!

I had to call him on his bullshit and thank you for doing the same!!

PEACE!!

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B.A. Buddusky — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:47:00 GMT

Ok Countdown Moderators and Editors thanks for not publishing the unedited version of this early this am that jumped like and old record and made no sense like most of my posts.

It is Dubya,Dick,Collin Powell,Rumsfeld,Tenet,Condi and you known now as the Decider' and his Executioners that Lead this Country into and Illegal War Killed Innocent WOMEN AND CHILDREN for a multitudes of made up reasons,killed American Troops for a multitude of made up reasons,lay the guilt and pain on all parties involved of their OIL Whore War under the guise of WMD,Saddam the bad guy,of course you Sodomized the United States of America,with your Congressional Republican buddies,and Oil Lobby Contrbutions to grease your reasoning,McCain,Mitch McConnell,Lindsy Graham,Libermann and the whole bunch of BABY and WOMEN KILLERS,gutless bastards,who set into motion a Civil War now name it a- Quida to divert the blame and ease their conscientiuos.
Those 8 Marines that are being tried for following the ROE at Haditha while their COS covered it up,cheered them on and watched are no different then you.
Oh call it collateral damage.But the fact is its murder and the REAL folks guilty are at the TOP.
Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame Wilson tried to stop the insanity.
You can rationalize this till hell freezes over but ya killed Innocent, Men, Women and CHILDREN,"MR SHOCK and AWE for OIL" and LIES.MISSION ACCOMPLISHED.DADDY HAPPY NOW!

Worse yet you killed Our Own Troops for reasons in a war you made up as you went along.YOU STUPID ASSES!
General Walker was right you didn't try to use diplomacy and always,ALWAYS the MILTARY should be the last CARD PLAYED.
You played a deck of CARDS CALLED THE BIG LIE.

Not for the defense of the Country as Outline by the Constitution which you piss on,on a daily basis,with things like executive privilege and lies,then have your Republican Cronies in Congress use the rule book to justify your actions.I haven't found this 60 vote bullshit in the Constitution.
Robert Rules of Parliamentary Murder By DICK AND DUBYA'S Illegal War.
Yes you are the Decider and Your and your Dick the Vice Decider,and your Pal Rove Vader the Klingon LIAR.
Wonder how many WOMEN AND CHILDREN you nailed in that first round of SHOCK and AWE,Dubya and Dick.
Bet ya never even thought of em just laughed oooo awwwe like a fire works show we got em now Daddy.
No sir,don't Try those 8 Marines at Haditha for following orders while following their ROE or their commanders covered it up because they ordered more than likely, or those that shot five prisoners to come to the Aid of their Brothers in Arms in another incident.
You have killed way more for far worse reasons and your Republican buddies accessories to those killing under the guise of a war on terror.
A war for Republican Oil Money.
The Marines were there for all your damn illegal reasons.You can't even protect while they are there or take care of em when they are hurt and come home.
Your Republican Cronies Continue to Support the Made Up Reasons for Fear al-Quida or whatever you are using to wash your hands for having killed so many WOMEN and CHILDREN in that first Salvo and those that followed.And now that Civil War you inially denied.

Joe Wilson and Valerie Plame Wilson,tried to warn you about going in the first place and so did some of the other commanders regarding and Army of Occupation.
But that's right you busy out there talking to you all moral and family values God.Line out a couple of those old Commandments eh DOC as needed or when the Family Values Call Girl Motel is Open.
You My Man and those that Support you in this Congress,yes that would be you "Republican Mitch MCConnell Twerps" that have let this Murder and Insanity Go On Every Time a Suicide bomb goes off over there and kills Women,Children,Old men and Our Troops.That's on you.Every time and IED goes off that's on you.Every time you sneak someone Son,Father,Mother,Daughter in the back door of DOVER that would be on YOU OLD OIL and GREED WHORES.You can't win it's your mind your running from and guilt your you make worse by killing more.

You Have done Far Worse and Call it Collateral Damage to ease your conscience,WMD one week,Saddam the next,insurgents,the next,al-quida the next,they'll follow us here the next,no civil war,a civil war, and excuse after excuse like Lady McBeth washing Duncan's blood form her hands.Sorry it will be your history and legacy and it won't be proud.

The Marines they were following their Orders from the Decider and his Generals.Shouldn't have been there in the First Place.

Now you may stay up tonight and and use some damn rule to bitch your way into a stalemate.Well you did that was an easy bet.
Sleep tight knowing all the TROOPS that have died and been wounded and all the WOMEN,CHILDREN,OLD MEN,OLD WOMEN,and EVERY ONE who has died no matter how you try and Rationalize.Join Lady McBeth,and Pontious Pilot in cleansing your hands.
The blood on your hands coming off bro and you keep letting it go on!
You ALL go home on your WELL DESERVED RECESSES,SENATOR WEBB tried to give the Troops some R&R.
Yes lay around in your nice air conditioned homes and try to rationalize as you may the death and destruction you have caused but it's going away.

Yes sleep tight try to see the faces of the dead Troops as you dream,the horror of their wifes,husbands,mothers,fathers,families face parade by in your dreams,the dead Iraqi women and children,the dead Iraqis.Yes you Mitch McConnell,Lindsy Graham,John McCain of questionable fame,look up Swede Larson on McCain,and all you other Republicans who were against the War.Liver lips Libermann.
The horror and pain of the families here when they found out their loved ones had been killed or injured.The wounded with faces burned beyond recognition,the vegetables in the back wards of hospitals,and of course,no PTSD you deny at will,and now we find out multiple discharges for personality disorders.I think every member of Congress need to have a physological assement that has supported this war and be tested on his knowledge of the Constitution.
No Congressman Left Behind!Idiots don't even know what it says regarding defense of the nation.

Play politics with their lives and our and Sweet Dreams.

May God Undamn and Forgive your cruel and ignorant souls.

Deja Vu All Over Again

Brian CT — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:47:34 GMT

I have to say I served in Iraq and Afghanistan and still support the President. I am capable of realizing the mistakes that was made during the initial invasion and as for finding Bin Laden there was a little line we could not cross to go get him. It was called the Pakistani border.

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Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:51:23 GMT

Independent, Texas (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 4:10 PM)

Very good question and I'm on it. I don't know if or how the information could even be 100% accurate as those stationed overseas vote absentee and those ballots are usually counted in close races. I remember it being a big issue in Florida in 2000.

Jamie, I think I am correct on that one; however, please correct me if I am wrong.

I'll start researching Inde!!

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jen,il — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 20:53:44 GMT

Larry, george bush has done more to revive liberalism in this country than I could have ever hoped for. While his employment numbers are getting better they are still no where near the Clinton administration. I'm glad your making money but if Clinton wassn't allowed to take credit for the stock market neither can bush. I'll give you the kerry thing but for a completly differant reason.

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Wayne, TN — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 21:01:11 GMT

"thank you pam. that list should be published every day, in every newspaper and on the web.
barbinalbanyny (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 1:52 PM)

You're welcome and I agree!! It just might shut up the TV pundits, i.e. Hannity, the Comedian Rush and O'Reilly who have ruthlessly supported this war AND George W. Bush!!

They all SMACK of hypocrisy!!

PEACE!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro
"

Pam's list has been on the web for years.
It is a list of Politicians and jurists not serving military.

You may note that Air National Guard service for a democrat is considered honorable while Air National Guard Service for a Republican is considered despicable. Bill Clinton avoiding service by taking advantage of student deferment is given a free pass while Cheny taking advantage of student deferments is considered despicable.
Also two of the Democrats on that list have publically admitted to warcrimes including murder of civilians.
Democrats most respect murderous thugs who try to shift responsibility for their crimes onto their fellow soldiers.

Deja Vu All Over Again

Independent, Texas — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 21:04:20 GMT

B.A. Buddusky (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 4:47 PM)

Your most passionate yet. Well done.

Brian CT (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 4:47 PM)

Thank you for your service. I had family there as well.

I do have a question. Why, in your opinion, is "a little line we could not cross to go get him. It was called the Pakistani border" different from that little line called the Iraqi border?

I'm not being sarcastic.

If, as we were told, we went into Iraq to destroy WMDs that threatened us (yes, I know that was a lie but at that time that is what we were told), they why can't we cross the Pakistani border to get to those who threaten us?

I'm curious to hear what you've been told about this.

thanks,

Deja Vu All Over Again

Christina, Helena — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 21:09:53 GMT

When exactly did Graham the cracker hand Webb his lunch on Sunday? Webb called it, the cracker attended dog & pony shows. Hell, if winning a debate only requires the ability to talk over the other guys, then alright folks, let's run for office!

Deja Vu All Over Again

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 21:12:35 GMT

Wayne, TN (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 5:01 PM)

You're A LIAR WAYNE - PERIOD!! I put that together and how dare you!!

You lost and now you're going to LIE in some twisted last ditch effort??

Go to Hell MR. BAD HAND - another FAT LIE!! You truly are a pig and a COWARD!!

Deja Vu All Over Again

jen,il — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 21:15:05 GMT

There is no way to know how anyone in the country votes, we have to believe what they tell us which is usually pretty accurate. Absentee and provisional votes are generally not counted unless the vote is really close but that varies from state to state. We do know that in 2004 the republicans used caging lists of military personel to challenge thier votes making sure they did not get counted. This is complicated but I am going to try to explain it.

Caging is a direct mail tactict. What they do is pay more to send mail to an address and if that person is not there it gets returned to the sender. Direct mail people use it to shorten thier mailing lists so they are not mailing to people who no longer live at the same address.

Republicans sent mail to military personel in the south. (You can see the lists in Greg Palasts last book I have forgotten the name.) When the mail was returned to the republicans because the military personnel were in Iraq and not the address on thier voter registration the republican party made a list of whose votes to challenge. So when the military person showed up to vote, the republican at the ID table challenged thier vote on the basis that they did not live at the address at which they were registered. It is a crime to lie about where you live on your voter registration.

So if the soldier was lucky they got a provisional ballot that was probably never counted. If they voted absentee the republicans challenged their vote and they never knew it. They also did this in black neighborhoods to people guilty of voting while black. As well as making sure thier were not enough voting machines in poor areas. They can only do this where there is a republican secratary of state. Which is why there were 8 hour lines in Ohio. And then there are the machines that count backwards. But thats for another day.

So if republicans are so loved by the military why don't they want them to vote?

Deja Vu All Over Again

Independent, Texas — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 21:24:02 GMT

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 4:51 PM)

(Jamie, tell me if this has changed since my own TDY.)

You see, Pam, my experience was that you didn't have to be "overseas". Unless you had established residency at your duty posting, you always voted absentee ballot back to your state of residence. That may have changed since the late 70s but that is the way it was for us.

Therefore, those "residents" voted in the local polling places and those votes were indistinguishable from the rest of that voting public.

Those "non-residents" voted via absentee ballot which is indistinguishable from an absentee ballot cast by any other person.

Those TDY in foreigh countries, however, I believe did have a service to collect those absentee ballots for delivery back to the states but, again, those ballots went to the local districts. Possible I suppose, due to the typically late counting of them, to infer a voting pattern due to before and after tallies. However, I'm not even certain that they were counted unless, as in the 2000 election, they were needed to make a decision.

I just don't know how someone can assert that "the Military VOTED overwhelmingly for Bush".

I don't understand where data to support such a claim could be found. Of course, it could be based on polling data but, again, there is that old fogey about revealing this information within the ranks that would make that suspect to me.

Very curious, wouldn't you say?

Course - I could be all wet here and things could have really changed over the last 30 years. Looking forward to your findings.

Deja Vu All Over Again

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 21:39:23 GMT

jen,il & Jamie - Thank you. I don't believe we can get an accurate number, sorry Inde. I also don't believe anyone CAN OR SHOULD spout that the majority of the military voted for George W. Bush, or vote republican.

Again, it's just more of Mr. Bad Hand Wayne's LIES!! Still waiting for him to answer C A about his Vietnam service, or LACK THERE OF, which is more like it.

Mr. Copy & Paste with the bad hand needs to SHUT UP!!

I don't think any research will provide the accurate answer to your question Inde.

PEACE!!

Deja Vu All Over Again

Brian Craft, Garden City, MI — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 21:39:41 GMT

I thought when the shrub stole, I mean, took office 20 years ago (I know it hasn't been that long, it just feels like it), he swore to uphold the constitution, but I think he meant to say he would hold up the constitution so Dick Cheney could shoot holes in this priceless document. It must make for a happy Dick when he sees how there is more outcry over shooting someone than taking away our civil liberties, I know I wouldn't go hunting with this killer

Deja Vu All Over Again

Wayne, TN — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 21:46:04 GMT

From list posted by Pam Bignard
"George W. Bush: six-year National Guard commitment (in FOUR years); questions about his service remain!!; RONALD REAGAN: made war propaganda movies; Gerald Ford: Navy, WWII; Phil Gramm: did not serve; John McCain: Silver Star, Bronze Star, Legion of Merit, Purple Heart and Distinguished Flying Cross; Bob Dole: Army officer WWII; Chuck Hagel: two Purple Hearts and a Bronze Star, Vietnam; Disgraced and now in prison Congressman Duke Cunningham: nominated for Medal of Honor, Navy Cross, Silver Stars, Air Medals, Purple Hearts; Jeff Sessions: Army Reserves, 1973-1986; JC Watts: did not serve; Lindsey Graham: National Guard LAWYER; George Herbert Walker Bush: Pilot in WWII. Shot down by the Japanese; Tom Ridge: Bronze Star for Valor in Vietnam.

"

As I mentioned earlier National Guard Service for a Democrat is considered honorable.
Reagan was a Democrat during WW2 so his being in the service at all is unusual, but of course they had the draft both then and during Korea and Vietnam conflicts so Democrats had to serve whether they wanted to or not.
John McCain is regularly villified by the Democrats despite his honorable service.

Duke Cunningham is an example of just why honorable service does not mean that one is above temptation, John Murtha barely escaped being indicted along with his fellow Democrats involved in the ABSCAM sting, otherwise he would also be in the slammer, another example of homorable service being no gaurantee of morality and respect for the law in later years.

Deja Vu All Over Again

Oro Lee, Texas — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 21:47:11 GMT

Larry re Bush being right about N. Korea --

What you fail to note is that North Korea was responding to South Korea's delivery of a large supply of fuel oil -- against the wishes of the United States.

Deja Vu All Over Again

C A, Tuscaloosa, Al — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 21:57:10 GMT

Larry: If you think the North Koreans are taking themselves out of the Nuclear Arms game and doing so because GW has asked them to, or threathened them to do so, or fashioned some grand agreement to get them to do so, you need to think again, real hard. The North Koreans are playing Bush like a flute and will be back building more nuclear warheads before you can sneeze.

Deja Vu All Over Again

jen,il — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 22:14:05 GMT

Pam remember wayne isn't the only person out there forming opinions without any facts or thought. The entire bush administration does it. Your research and responses help educate. Republicans can't have that. So know that wayne will continue to lie but it is always important to correct him as it is always important to speak truth to power. And when he gets on your last nerve just picture him in his dark dank life desparatly trying to cling to a fantasy. While the rest of the country has left him behind.

Deja Vu All Over Again

Jamie, Chula Vista, Ca — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 22:19:07 GMT

'I have to say I served in Iraq and Afghanistan and still support the President. I am capable of realizing the mistakes that was made during the initial invasion and as for finding Bin Laden there was a little line we could not cross to go get him. It was called the Pakistani border.
Brian CT (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 4:47 PM)'

Thank you for your service, and I'm glad you made it home alive. More power to you for supporting Bush-he needs it.

That being said, you're trying to make it so cut and dry about bin Laden, also, your doing a disservice to Bush. He wants him 'dead or alive', then couldn't care less where he is. 'They' don't know where he is, but you do-how is that?

I suggest that you see what has happened on the border there, and what Bush has allowed to happen.

Also, there were mistakes made, and they are still being made today. Had Bush listened to his military folks and not a bunch of wankers that have never served, a lot of those mistakes might not have been made to begin with. What about now? Over four years later?

Again, I thank you for your service, but don't blame the Pakistan border for bin Laden still MIA after all of these years. Put it where it squarely belongs-on the shoulders of George W. Bush. He should have 'stayed the course' in Afghanistan, instead of screwing it up in Iraq.

PEACE!

Deja Vu All Over Again

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 22:29:50 GMT

And when he gets on your last nerve just picture him in his dark dank life desparatly trying to cling to a fantasy. While the rest of the country has left him behind.
jen,il (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 6:14 PM)

LOL!! Can I picture him clinging to a building, say 2,000 feet high instead? That might work!!

Thanks!!

Deja Vu All Over Again

Niels, poling along Bayou DeGradeabelle, Post-Katrina MS — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 22:34:45 GMT

Wayne, TN wrote: "According to an Army Times Poll of Professional military men 60% are Republican, 205 are Independent and 13% are Democrats with the remainder listed as other. Liberal Democrats are almost absent from the serving military."

Isn't this from the same guy who tells us that polls don't mean anything?

Deja Vu All Over Again

Wayne, TN — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 22:46:38 GMT

", but don't blame the Pakistan border for bin Laden still MIA after all of these years."
Would you like a birdseye view of the Tribal region?

http://www.maplandia.com/pakistan/f-a-t-a/n-waziristan/

Deja Vu All Over Again

Wayne, TN — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 23:01:20 GMT

"Isn't this from the same guy who tells us that polls don't mean anything? "
News week polls with answers from one out of every 300,000 US citizens can hardly be considered accurate now can they.

Deja Vu All Over Again

Hunter, Albany, NY — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 23:45:25 GMT

"Sorry Pam, your list means nothing. WEBB might be the only qualified one to speak on behalf of the liberals, but Lindsey Graham handed him his lunch on Sunday."

Larry, whatever you're stirring into that Kool-Aid, I'd cut it with something. Webb wiped the floor with Graham, who's bitter now that he isn't going to get a gig in the McCain administration.

Deja Vu All Over Again

Daryl, Azusa CA — Wed, 18 Jul 2007 23:55:50 GMT

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 12:45 PM)

Yeah Pam! Thanks for doing your research and showing who the real cowards are!

Deja Vu All Over Again

K. Collins, USN — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 00:10:50 GMT

Tom, Clinton bombed Al Qeada camps twice. You probably don't remember because you were busy analysing a stain on a dress. And screaming "No war for Monica". What this last intellegence report proves is that Republicans have lost all credibilty that they are capable of fighting terrorism.
jen,il

Are you talking about when he ordered the launching of some million dollar missles to take out a couple of 10 dollar tents in the desert. Is that what you are talking about?

Deja Vu All Over Again

K. Collins USN — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 00:53:46 GMT

This is 2007-over four long years of war, and you might take another poll that military folks say they are still registered as a Republican, but I can almost guarantee you that they don't approve of Bush nor his policies in Iraq.

Jamie, Chula Vista, CA

I invite to go ahead and take another poll, but I doubt you would post it. The numbers will still favor the republicans. The reason being is that we recieve better pay raises, and better allowances including benefits, while the republicans are in office.

Ask any service member today or yesterday

Deja Vu All Over Again

Jamie, Chula Vista, CA — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 00:55:41 GMT

Independent: Up until our 'special' election here in CA (the whole 'guvnah thing), I had never voted in a voting booth-always absentee ballot. I always wondered if they really counted those.:) And, here I go again.:)

Since I was 19 years old (I'm now 41), my life has pretty much been centered in and around the US Military-so I'm pretty sure I've been around a lot more military folks for far longer than most people on these blogs. I do know that most of the military folks I know are registered Republicans, however, that does NOT mean that they vote Republican, anymore that it means that I vote strictly Democrat.

As I've said before, there is NO WAY that anybody could poll the 'majority' of military personnel-no way. I can also say that depending on which military installation you sit outside their front gate and ask questions as they walk out, you'll get a different vibe altogether. You'd probably get a different reaction leaving Camp Pendleton than you would NAS NI-nature of the beast.

I do have to add this though: Back in the late 90's my husband was on deployment and I flew with my squadron to meet him there (or sit in his room while he worked). Anyway, his XO and I had a discussion about Bill Clinton being elected President. When telling him that Clinton received the majority of the popular vote, this is what he said:

'He got less than 50% of the vote, so that's not really the majority of the people voting for him.' My reply to him was that it was too bad that all the Republicans that SHOULD have voted were either too lazy or couldn't be bothered to get out and vote, so basically it was the Repbublicans fault, and they had no right to complain that Clinton was president.

It's the same way now. It was the Electoral (sp?) back in 2000-only the second time in our country's history that a president didn't win with the popular vote-that put Bush in office, and he hardly won by a landslide in 2004, so again, where in the hell were all of those military folks and Republicans? Obviously not sending in those absentee ballots or showing up at the polling stations.

PEACE!

Deja Vu All Over Again

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 00:58:11 GMT

Sorry Pam, your list means nothing - Hunter, Albany, NY (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 7:45 PM)

Well PLEASE feel free to correct ANY ONE OF MY STATS HUNTER!! With all due respect, you are wrong. Military stats DO NOT LIE!! However, Wayne does.

In addition, I will look forward to your corrections, or you pointing out ONE mistake I made in the listing of the military records of ANYONE I named!!

DONE? I thought so!!

CIAO!!

Deja Vu All Over Again

Don, Denver, CO — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 00:59:19 GMT

Again Wayne

Apparently you have not taken a statistics class. The Newsweek polls taken are far more accurate because they are done randomly and those answering don't reveal who they are, despite being one out of 300,000; whereas the earlier poll you referenced, even admitted in the poll itself, was not a valid poll as it requested people to respond via e-mail and did not randomly ask. It's like Keith Olbermann polling his listeners by asking them to respond to his e-mails, hardly a valid poll.

Pam, thanks for all your work and research because I do believe that the truth will always win. I don't care if the truth is on the Conservative or the Liberal side.....it always wins out over propoganda eventually (although unfortunately and too often, after many lives are lost).

Unfortunately, today's Conservatives live in a "faith-based" reality and don't tend to look at facts like the older Republican party used to (Lincoln, Roosevelt, et al).

To those Republicans who love this administration, it has the most government employees amongst all administrations, so much for small government (my sources are varied and I guarantee you can google to get a variety of sources to confirm this statistic). I have never felt more regulated or violated by the Feds; again, very anti-conservative.

The Conservative party has made a very big mistake in backing this President at all costs and in backing this war and I truly believe it will pay a huge cost in '08 (not soon enough in my opinion) because Americans do not want their rights and freedoms diminished by the Feds, never have and never will.

Finally, Conservatives who seem to support Bush and his new found "executive priviledges" better hope that a Democrat does not come into power and run rough-shod over this Congress the way this Administration has. We have three "equal" branches for a very good reason and it serves all Americans to keep it that way.

Don

Deja Vu All Over Again

Jamie, Chula Vista, CA — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 01:00:04 GMT

BTW, I'm glad I came here for a break. We had four dentist appts on Sat (routine for my boys), then my niece fell on Sunday which required a trip to NMCSD for stitches, x-rays, Tdap, etc.. Yesterday was a trip to the dentist for her since she knocked out half a back tooth and part of a front tooth when she fell, then yesterday afternoon my 3 oldests had orthodontist evaluations. Today my niece had ANOTHER dentist appt with a different dentist, and one of my twins had a 'baby root canal,' and had a few crowns put on. I'm beat.

Oh yeah, we also had to go to the base to update my niece & nephews dependent military ID cards. My boys started school yesterday, and I'm cranky as all get out.

Thank you very much for reading-I feel much better for venting. Ciao e pace!

Deja Vu All Over Again

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 01:00:18 GMT

K -

Jamie served in the military for TWENTY-ONE YEARS!! Her husband for THIRTY-ONE YEARS and just retired!! She KNOWS her stuff!!

I'd back off this one friend - and FAST!!

Deja Vu All Over Again

Jason R, Richmond, VA — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 01:01:16 GMT

Keith,

I apologize about exposing your age; however, it is meant to defend you against the neo cons, i.e. Jason R, Richmond, VA (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 1:20 PM).

Keith Olbermann was born January 27, 1959, making him forty-eight years old. America’s participation in the Vietnam conflict occurred from 1959 to April 30, 1975. Therefore, Keith Olbermann was ZERO when the conflict began and was just sixteen years old when it concluded.

I’m going out on a limb here; however, I believe his age made him ineligible to serve in Vietnam sir!! Nice try though!!

Next??

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California

Did he ever serve in the armed forces is what I was asking? I don't remember ever asking for his age or why you posted it. Sorry I forget who I'm talking to some times.

Deja Vu All Over Again

Jason R, Richmond, VA — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 01:07:31 GMT

Wayne that is a very interesting stat, if it is to be believed. Now how do you explain the fact that 70% of the military, 70% of Iraqis and 70% of the American public think we should be out of Iraq yesterday? Are 70% of each of these groups flaming liberals? I don't think so. Based on the percentage in the military who want us out of Iraq and using your numbers, at least 50% of professed republicans want us to be gone yesterday.
Michael, Philadelphia, PA

How convenient that every fact of yours today is an even 70% (I would have changed the percentiles a little bit so it didn’t look like you just pulled those number out of you @$$)

I’m sorry you did say 50% as well; I guess I should believe your research then

Make up something more believable next time

Deja Vu All Over Again

K. Collins, USN — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 01:12:32 GMT

Deja Vu All Over Again

Jamie, Chula Vista, Ca — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 01:13:06 GMT

K Collins, I suggest you go back to what Reagan & Bush 1 DID NOT give us pay wise, and what Clinton DID give us pay wise.

K, I don't know if your USN really stands for our Navy or how long you've been with it, but I suggest you take a look back. I joined the Navy in 1985, did four years Active Duty, then the rest Reserves. In 1989 I married a sailor who retired on May 1, 2007 after 31 years active service, so I'm pretty well versed on the benefits we have and have not received.

During the 80's everybody 'thinks' that Reagan spent a lot of defense-he did-unfortunately it wasn't on personnel, it was on equipment and StarWars.

You also need to read my other posts regarding what political party a lot of military are 'registered' with. I definitely said Republican, however, I also said that what your registered as doesn't necessarily mean what you vote, and I also know many, many, many registered-lifelong Republicans that are disgusted with Bush and are ashamed that he represents 'their' party. My husband happens to be one of them, as are my two soldier brothers that have served or are serving in Iraq.

Polling those same people now, you would not get the same results you did in 2003. Some have probably been killed or wounded in Iraq, or they have spent multiple deployments there-it has a way of changing ones perspective and mind-hence my brother John currently doing his second there and despising Bush even though he (John), is a registered Republican.

BTW K, I would be more than happy to publish any poll at any time. I have no problems admitting when I'm wrong, no matter how bad the situation is. It's too bad George W. Bush can't do the same thing.

Deja Vu All Over Again

K. Collins, USN — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 01:24:28 GMT

I appreciate the service I'm on my 23rd yr now. I just post the facts. Every year we get a pay raise and while the republicans are in office I always recieve a bigger %. Is this just a coincidence I don't know, but this figures in the mind of your average GI when he casts his vote.

I don't have to back off

Deja Vu All Over Again

K. Collins USN — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 01:39:06 GMT

Jamie, Chula Vista, CA

Why 21. Why not 22 yrs. wouldn't you have had a bigger pension if you stayed the extra year.

Not trying to being nosy, or insulting. Your info was passed out. I'm nearing my 24th year and debating on whether to retire or not.

Deja Vu All Over Again

Independent, Texas — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 01:50:53 GMT

Question: I don't have access (thank the Lord) to Fox News. From all of what you guys say every day, they are neocon mouthpieces, correct?

I just received my copy of "A TRAGIC LEGACY: How a good vs. Evil Mentality Destroyed the Bush Presidency" written by Gleen Greenwald. I haven't even started to read it but the cover quote says:

"This is the best book about the worst president. Glenn Greewald is to this administration as they've been to the country: devastating. This is more than a book. It's an act of patriotism."

That quote from Alan Colmes of "Hannity & Colmes", Fox News.

Uh - Fox News??

Am I missing something here?

Deja Vu All Over Again

Pam Bignardi@cox.net — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 02:29:44 GMT

Hunter, Albany, NY (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 7:45 PM)

Please FORGIVE ME!! I did not realize you quoted Larry and didn't see the quotations. I skip his posts because he's cruel and his behavior smacks of arrogance and stupidity so I hadn't read it at all!! NEVER will I read ONE more of his vile and hate-filled posts!!

I AM SO SORRY!! I will make sure to check for quotes next time, as many put the person's name under the post and I re-read it after I submitted what I did above as I didn't see Larry's name attributed to the post you quoted. Nor did I see the quotation marks.

Thank you and very sorry!!

Deja Vu All Over Again

Wayne, TN — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 02:35:34 GMT

Don
"Again Wayne

Apparently you have not taken a statistics class. The Newsweek polls taken are far more accurate because they are done randomly and those answering don't reveal who they are, despite being one out of 300,000; whereas the earlier poll you referenced, even admitted in the poll itself, was not a valid poll as it requested people to respond via e-mail and did not randomly ask. It's like Keith Olbermann polling his listeners by asking them to respond to his e-mails, hardly a valid poll.
"
The Army Times Poll asked serving active duty military directly, specific questions were asked of a specific group. The percentage of servicemen asked was far greater than any news week poll.

Someone mentioned Liberal Democrats not being a National party, not a factor in the poll as responders were also asked if the were conservative or Democrat.

Post 911 increases in enlistments of Conservative Democrats from the Rural South have begun to bring up the percentage of Democrats in uniform, a good sign. Convervative Bluedog Democrats often vote Republican when only Flaming Liberal Democrats (like Kerry)are on the Democrat ticket.

"and he hardly won by a landslide in 2004, so again, where in the hell were all of those military folks and Republicans? Obviously not sending in those absentee ballots or showing up at the polling stations.

PEACE!
Jamie, Chula Vista, CA
"
Disingenous.
You would have to know that Serving active duty US Military are possibly the smallest single voting block in US politics. They number less than the population of a medium sized city.

Deja Vu All Over Again

Wayne, TN — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 02:55:19 GMT

"Yeah Pam! Thanks for doing your research and showing who the real cowards are!
Daryl, Azusa CA
"
Research my aunt petunia.
She copied down word for word a site which I found very easily by simply cutting and pasting the first few lines into my search bar. Try it, you'll get thousands of hits with the exact wording.
The list has been on the net for as long as the war has been going on and is to be found in almost the exact same form on sites all over the net.

I always add quote marks when I cut and paste and a link if I remember it.

But what can you expect from Bignard she quoted John Loftus and then tried to defend that by saying "Historians" have quoted him. What a laugh, Nards reminds me of Frank Burns laying in the morgue with a tag on his toe saying "Morally Bankrupt".

Deja Vu All Over Again

Wayne, TN — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 03:13:30 GMT

Someone mentioned relative accuracy of the Army Times Polls.
"On Nov. 13, we mailed questionnaires to 6,000 people drawn at random from our list of active-duty subscribers. The annual poll has come to be viewed by some as a barometer of the professional career military.
"
6,000 questionaires out of around 1,500,000 Million active Duty Military.
News Week called up around 1,000 out of whatever the number of adults who happened to be home that day (or their teenage kid, or baby sitter, or illegal alien housekeeper whatever )from a population of 300,000,0000

I've seen an online poll pulled from a Liberal website as the numbers began to go against the preconcieved notion of what the results should be, so online polls are worthless, vote early vote often is the Liberal Democrat battlecry afterall.

I never participate in telephone polls, too many scams out there.

Doesn't seem to be much of a contest.

Deja Vu All Over Again

K. Collins, USN — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 03:23:39 GMT

Deja Vu All Over Again

Carol, Long Valley NJ — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 03:25:54 GMT

Independent, Texas

The "internets" is how our language challenged 43rd president once referred to the internet.

"This is like deja vu all over again." is a quote from the ever amusing Yogi Berra, a former Yankee catcher and baseball manager. Some of his other quotes include:

* "Baseball is 90% mental, the other half is physical."
* "I want to thank everyone who made this night necessary."
* "I made a wrong mistake."
* "I didn't really say everything I said."
* "Slump? I ain't in no slump... I just ain't hitting."
* "If people don't come to the games, you can't stop them."
* "When you come to a fork in the road, take it."
* "I wish I had an answer to that, because I'm tired of answering that question."
* "This is like deja vu all over again."
* "It ain't over till it's over."

Deja Vu All Over Again

Hunter, Albany, NY — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 03:44:24 GMT

Apology accepted, Pam. You do so much heavy lifting around here, I can understand how it can become a blur, particularly with Wayne's Hurl, K-Car, Larry the Cable Twit and the other fine folks... uhh, fleas from Freeper Nation coming in saying the same thing over and over and over and over and over and over and...

(Pauses to take a good stiff drink)

Sorry. Needle got stuck.

("Needle"! Sheesh! Dating myself, and loving every mint of it...<g>)

Deja Vu All Over Again

Wayne, TN — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 03:52:40 GMT

I Noticed in the Pamster's post that John Edwards had not served, Hillary Clinton of course did not serve, Both voted for the Joint Resolution as did Kerry who had served on both sides during the Vietnam Conflict four montha as a swiftboat skipper which he's cashed in on ever since and then for years as a Communist stooge right here in the US.

Going by Pam Bignards post she seems to think Reservists who haven't served in combat are chicken, where would that put Jamie?

PS
A Correction to a previous post
"Someone mentioned Liberal Democrats not being a National party, not a factor in the poll as responders were also asked if the were conservative or Democrat.
"
I meant Conservative or Liberal, only 7% Identified themself as Liberal, Some Republicans consider themselves Liberal couldn't guess how many, I found another page awhile back that put the percentage of Liberal Democrats in the Officer corp at 3% or less.

Deja Vu All Over Again

Independent, Texas — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 04:04:41 GMT

Carol, Long Valley NJ (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 11:25 PM)

Thanks Carol but I knew that. My post was in reference to a typo that they originally had as the title of this item. It said "DJ Vue".

I was being snarky and they corrected the title.

Thanks for responding though!

Deja Vu All Over Again

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 04:21:47 GMT

I don't have to back off
K. Collins, USN (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 9:24 PM)

K -

I appreciate and thank you for your service sir!!

PEACE!!

Deja Vu All Over Again

Jamie, Chula Vista, CA — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 04:35:52 GMT

'Jamie, Chula Vista, CA

Why 21. Why not 22 yrs. wouldn't you have had a bigger pension if you stayed the extra year.

Not trying to being nosy, or insulting. Your info was passed out. I'm nearing my 24th year and debating on whether to retire or not.
K. Collins USN (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 9:39 PM)'

I actually did 20 years, the majority of them in the Reserves. I don't mind saying why I didn't do more.

As I've stated, my husband was active duty and I was fortunate to have a place to drill wherever we were stationed, and all of our moves since being married have been to and from overseas. I did lose a couple of 'good years' in there, but I'll make them up.

I also lost some time when I was finally able to get pregnant. Again, I don't mind telling people that I had to go through IVF-which I did at Walter Reed when my husband was at the Pentagon Annex.

We moved to San Diego from London four years ago when I was pregnant with our fourth. I did go into the Reserves again at SPAWARS, but sat on my keester all weekend long, had to have an escort to go to the head so I could pump breast milk for my infant, and thought 'screw this, I could be home with my babies instead of doing nothing.' I didn't want to be doing nothing, but that's where the recruiter sent me.

I was going to go back to an aviation unit, as that is what I did most of the time anyway outside of living overseas. My husband said: NO! He said no because he didn't want me to get an IA, get weapons proficient, and then be sent off to Iraq-a place where my brothers have served or are serving now!

I have no qualms about saying I was relieved when my last enlistment expired in 2005-I wouldn't want to go to Iraq. I'm not a coward, I just think it's a piece of crap of war that has served no purpose, and my family has had enough of the unsettling that has come with this war.

If and when this thing ends, I do plan on going back and finishing my 'good years.' For now though I'll enjoy my children & husband, and head off to bella Italia as the wife of a civil servant, aka Commander, US Navy, Retired (yes, we fraternized).

Outside of giving you my whole name or times and units that I've been assigned to, ask away. I'm proud of my time serving my country, but I will always respect the privacy of my husband and children, hence I don't want to say where and when I've been stationed.

Deja Vu All Over Again

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 04:40:37 GMT

"Yeah Pam! Thanks for doing your research and showing who the real cowards are!
Daryl, Azusa CA
"
Research my aunt petunia.
She copied down word for word a site which I found very easily by simply cutting and pasting the first few lines into my search bar.

Thanks Daryl, as I did RESEARCH these records as you so correctly stated. Hmmm, seems to me that one must research statistics, as in Wayne's World, we apparently know these things at BIRTH!!

Wayne - you are an idiot - period!! Daryl was CORRECT!! I researched so I would not appear like the ass you do, spewing your lies!! I researched names, records, etc. Stop with the lies, ok?? How the hell do you compile stats WITHOUT doing research?

NEVER MIND, I forgot it’s you I’m speaking to, as you do it all the time. Your posts are so full of bullshit it's scary!! Now, please show me the "link" where I copied this “WORD FOR WORD” jackass!! I stated I researched this LONG ago in my reply to Independent so SHUT UP!! Look up the word "research" in a dictionary moron!!

I'll wait while you find the link with my "word for word" verbiage... Oh, couldn't find it - didn't think you would “My Copy & Paste Bad Hand Liar”!!

Deja Vu All Over Again

John, Atlanta, GA — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 04:43:37 GMT

Wait, Larry - let me get this straight, the Radio Righties constantly spew about how you "can't talk to a madman," and I mean CONSTANTLY, and so now the State Department proves the Righties wrong, and you blame "Liberals" for being ignorant fools?

WTF are you talking about?

Deja Vu All Over Again

Jamie, Chula Vista, CA — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 04:44:33 GMT

Pam
When you're in the military, there is no form that you sign stating your political affiliation-religion yes-politics, NO!

you have to registered as a party memeber to vote in the primarys (only). However there is no religious preference listed, I've utilized absentee ballots 4 times since I enlisted
K. Collins, USN (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 9:12 PM)'

I posted that, not Pam. My point was that when we are in the military, at least the Navy, there is no form that we fill out that shows our political affiliation, however, we do have to show our religious affiliation (or lack thereof, or choosing to put none), on our Page 2's.

Of course outside of Admin/Personnel, nobody would know anyway. The point was about there is nothing that states our political affiliation.

A good magazine to read is Military Officer from MOAA. They are probably the best 'lobbiest' on our side to keep our benefits, especially after retirement.

If you're thinking of retirement, start reading, looking, learning now-trust me, you'll need it-especiallly when it comes to SBP and Tricare. I mean this in all sincerity-it was a learning experience for my husband & me!

Deja Vu All Over Again

Brenda Deltona FL — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 04:51:12 GMT

KICK PATOOTY AGAIN PAM!!!! :D

Deja Vu All Over Again

Bob W, Chicago — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 04:56:48 GMT

Wayne:

I think we've wasted a lot of time on this blog arguing about the political make up of the military. I'm willing to concede that the majority of the military are Republicans. I'm also not going to dispute your Military Times poll because it shows pretty thin support for the Commander-in-Chief by the military he commands. The numbers that stand out for me are the following:

Should the US have gone to war in Iraq? 41%-Yes; 37%-No (practically a statistical tie)

How long will it take for Iraqi forces to replace significant numbers of US troops? 2 years or less-22%; 3-5 years-36%; 5 years or more-34%

Do you approve or disapprove of the way George W. Bush is handling the situation in Iraq? Approve-35%; Disapprove-42% (that means most of them disapprove, Wayne!!)

As you previously indicated, 52% approve of Bush's overall job as president, 31% disapprove.

These are poor numbers for the President for an organization that is 60% Republican.

Wayne, it sounds like you previously served in the military and for that you have my appreciation. Do you have any children serving? If not, would you in good conscience really want them to volunteer to serve there when 70% of the current military believe it will be at least 3 years before we will be able to draw down our combat exposure there? If you do have children there, my prayers are with them.

Larry:

You are correct in that the President deserves kudos for finally coming to his senses and using diplomacy in getting North Korea to shut down its nuclear reactor, in spite of criticism of neo conservatives like John Bolton. If he had gone with this approach (started in the Clinton Administration) at the beginning of his term, it might have happened 5 years earlier. Neo-cons wrong again - it would only be news if they were ever right about anything.

Deja Vu All Over Again

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 05:01:02 GMT

Pam
When you're in the military, there is no form that you sign stating your political affiliation-religion yes-politics, NO! - K. Collins, USN (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 9:12 PM)

K -

Am I misunderstanding or do you have to list your religious affiliation? If so, why?

Thank you....

Deja Vu All Over Again

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 06:30:02 GMT

Hunter, Albany, NY (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 11:44 PM)

Thank you.........

Deja Vu All Over Again

Timmy, Milwaukee WI — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 14:35:59 GMT

What a laugh, Nards reminds me of Frank Burns laying in the morgue with a tag on his toe saying "Morally Bankrupt".
Wayne, TN (Sent Wednesday, July 18, 2007 10:55 PM)

It's funny, given who you obviously support, that this image of Frank Burns does not bring anyone else to mind. Are there just too many Republicans who fill the bill, and you're unable to narrow it down?

Deja Vu All Over Again

Wayne, TN — Thu, 19 Jul 2007 20:23:23 GMT

Bob W
"Wayne, it sounds like you previously served in the military and for that you have my appreciation."
I've never said anything about prior service, you are too quick to show appreciation towards those may claim to or appear that they may have had prior service. I said early on that due to injuries and post operative infections and complications that I'm not medically fit for service, whats so hard to understand about that?

As I said earlier saying "I'd Serve if I Could" would be a useless and empty gesture. I've had to deal with the situation on a daily basis for over forty years, plenty of time to get over it but I still don't like it when some twerp who is most likely a stone liar makes remarks.

Started to post about just how I was injured but as I've seen here any personal information is used as ammunition by the liars and cowards that make up the most vocal of the liberals that visit this site.

Besides, why brag about doing something anyone would hope they'd do in the same situation. It was a fair trade, I got no complaints. No one gets out of this world alive.

Deja Vu All Over Again

Wayne, TN — Fri, 20 Jul 2007 02:27:46 GMT

"Wayne - you are an idiot - period!! Daryl was CORRECT!! I researched so I would not appear like the ass you do, spewing your lies!! I researched names, records, etc."
You're lying again and anyone here can copy the first few lines of your list then paste it into the search bar of their browser and know that you are lying.
The list has been online for years, and appears exactly as you posted it on hundreds of sites.

Try lying about something which can't be checked out so easily next time. No wonder you like John Loftus so much, you both deal in academic fraud, and you both are compulsive liars.

It sometimes takes me a few hours to find Campaign contribution records and at other times I can find them quickly if someone else has gone to the effort to research them and post them.
Case in point would be Aldrich Ames Democrat party contributions I posted awhile back. I believe I linked to the site where I found them.

I posted the Army Times poll information and link.
Sometimes I forget the link till I've already hit the submit button, if so I'll try to add it to a followup post.

Deja Vu All Over Again

Wayne, TN — Fri, 20 Jul 2007 02:35:02 GMT

Post Script to above

""1971" (and any subsequent words) was ignored because we limit queries to 32 words.

Web Results 1 - 10 of about 357 for Richard Gephardt: Air National Guard, 1965-71; David Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72; Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72; Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. 1971 as an army journalist in 20th Engineer Brigade;. (0.32 seconds)

Republican Hypocrisy on War and Serving in the Armed ForcesDavid Bonior: Staff Sgt., Air Force 1968-72. * Tom Daschle: 1st Lt., Air Force SAC 1969-72. * Al Gore: enlisted Aug. 1969; sent to Vietnam Jan. ...
usliberals.about.com/b/a/203247.htm - 26k - Cached - Similar pages

"

Anyone can check these sites easily enough. If you start with the Republican list first you get 299 hits some may overlap.

Deja Vu All Over Again

Bob W, Chicago — Fri, 20 Jul 2007 04:55:52 GMT

Wayne: I was just trying to get some insight into your background to gain some understanding of your views. Based upon some of your posts, I thought you might have had a military background. I was trying to see whether you thought, if you were a soldier, it was worthwhile putting your life (or having a relative put theirs) on the line for the Iraqis. I don't care that you never served or why you couldn't - I was just trying to connect and perhaps develop a better understanding of an opposing viewpoint. I was called a twerp and a liar for my trouble. That pretty much tells me all I need to know about you and I will avoid addressing you or your inane ravings in the future.

Deja Vu All Over Again

Wayne, TN — Sat, 21 Jul 2007 19:37:17 GMT

" I was called a twerp and a liar for my trouble. That pretty much tells me all I need to know about you and I will avoid addressing you or your inane ravings in the future.
Bob W, Chicago
"
Read my post over again Bob.

"but I still don't like it when some twerp who is most likely a stone liar makes remarks.
"
You didn't make a "remark" you asked a Question. You assumed that the "twerp" I was speaking of was you. Sorry if my poor writing style gave you the wrong impression, But your following remark

"That pretty much tells me all I need to know about you and I will avoid addressing you or your inane ravings in the future. "
Shows that though I had assumed you were not one of the regular lamos on this site that your jumping to conclusions and lashing out puts you in the same category.
Too bad, but better to find out early.

Deja Vu All Over Again

Paul Gardner, Cincinnati Ohio — Tue, 24 Jul 2007 14:28:43 GMT

I haven't decided yet if Ms. Bignaldi has too much time on her hands, play the Michael Moore role by extending political deception to her faithful blog followers or just plain knows everything about everything. Maybe all of the above. At least I know she doesn't have it all together concerning Pete Rose and Barry Bonds. When THAT ax falls maybe some will scrutinize her posts more closely. Right now she's the squeaky wheel. All Pam all the time. I respect her right to "shove" info, whether accurate, deceptive or otherwise, but I'm feeling a bit force-fed. You'll excuse me if I leave the table.