ABOUT THE NEWS HOLE

It's the new award-winning blog* from the cast and crew of the award-winning television news hour** "Countdown with Keith Olbermann."

We heard about this whole "blogosphere" business from Tom DeLay, and came to the immediate realization that we too, "needed to become involved" in it.

So here it is. Covering the big news, the small news, medium-sized and irregular, The News Hole strives to bring everything you love or hate about Countdown to the internets.

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We're Back

Posted: Thursday, December 27, 2007 1:49 PM by Countdown


Keith will be in for a special Countdown tonight at 8p ET. We'll be all over the developements in Pakistan, Washington and beyond in the wake of the Benazir Bhutto assassination.  Please join us.

Comments

I awoke to this heart breaking news at 5:00am this morning; it is truly a very sad day!!

May Benazir Bhutto, this wonderful woman, rest in peace!! She was truly an amazing women; brave, dignified with such a great love for her country and the people of Pakistan!!

Horrifyingly, both Rudy Giuliani and Mitt Romney are working this tragedy into their campaign speeches today; just how low can these evil men stoop??

God Bless her!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 1:59 PM)

new thread after eight days and you post one comment? come on? and let's get back to news, NO more oddball -it's really getting old.

Bring the "Real" Countdown Back (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 2:18 PM)

Pervez Musharraf says it was terrorists, which is becoming a tried and true technique.  How fortunate they attacked the opposition leader, instead of him.  

PR, Grand Junction, CO (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 2:27 PM)

Benazir Bhutto, a brave woman. Other attempts on her life and she carried on. Her father, brother and I believe a sister all dead. She carried on after her father. Went into exile after she was accused of corruption. Came out of exile to stand by her people. The terrorist element in Pakistan since 9/11 are partly responsible for this tragedy. She was beloved by the people and would, in all likelihood, done very well, if not won, the election. She leaves 2 small children. RIP she will be missed by her people.

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 2:28 PM)

It'll be great to see Keith back on Countdown tonight, but I wish it were under better circumstances. I am woefully ignorant on the complexities that are Pakistan, but in just the reading that I've done today, it seems that a lot of hope for some stability in that part of the world died with her.

The "good" Gov. Romney said today, and I paraphrasing here, that her death is just a reminder that Iraq isn't the only place of terror in the world, we have to keep our guard up, and be ready all over the world. Hmm...where are those forces going to come from? And, isn't the "good" governor basically tooting the policies of the President who thinks that Iraq is the end-all be-all of terrorrism? Where is all this money going? Where has all the money gone? Where have the vast vast majority of our brave soldiers gone? Who DIDN'T/DOESN'T have nukes or WMDs? And, who does??!! The whole thing kind of makes me want to wretch, ya' know? It would seem that Mr. Mushariff got what he wanted - another golden opportunity for a "state of emergency."

I hope the people of Pakistan find peace soon and that whoever is responsible for this crime is brought to justice

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 2:40 PM)

The world has truly lost a great leader in Benazir Bhutto.  We will all feel the loss of her strength of will, her love of freedom, and her indomitable spirit, so much like Eleanor of Aquitaine.  May she rest in peace, and may we all remember what she gave to her people and what she sacrificed for her dream of democracy.  In these troubled times, let us hope we all have sufficient courage to live by our principles and follow our own dreams of peace and freedom.  Most of all, let us hope that her sacrifice was not in vain.  

As to who may have done this heinous thing, the truly sad thing is that there are so many different factions that could have been responsible and will see her loss as a benefit to themselves.  This has to be considered a tragic failure of our foreign policy, for sure.  I have to ask again -- when will we ever learn?

Thank you, Countdown, for being there tonight.  We need your voice right now to help us make whatever sense of this there is to make.

Anna Molly (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 2:57 PM)

I agree with the Oddball comment.  I change the channel until that portion is over.  

Barb Miller, Boswell PA (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 2:59 PM)

I don't need to hear what Keith has to say I already know - it's Bush's fault.  lol..  He's like a broken record, probably why his ratings are so low.

scott henderson nv (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 3:39 PM)

I don't need to hear what Keith has to say I already know - it's Bush's fault.  lol..  He's like a broken record, probably why his ratings are so low.  scott henderson nv (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 3:39 PM)

Hey scott -- It probably IS Bush’s fault, at least in part, for not shutting down the Talibani warlords, not doing more to find Osama bin Laden, not getting tough with Musharraf, and not acting more aggressively to protect free elections.  Don’t forget – Pakistan already has a nuclear weapon and a couple of guys who know how to use it.  No laughing matter at all.  

Just my thoughts, anyway.  I know it’s probably useless to try to get you to argue with me, so I’ll just ask you -- how’s the weather in Nevada?

Anna Molly (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 3:55 PM)

Hi all, Lets see a popular three time peoples choice politician in a country run by a dictator who said she would have to be under house arrest for her own protection (sorta like a mafia death threat). WOW my hat is off to her I would have caught the first train OUT of the country. By the way Scott if Keith says its Bushes fault I'll personally wash your car for free for one year!

YouKnowMe, Somewhrer close by (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:01 PM)

Pervez Musharraf says it was terrorists, which is becoming a tried and true technique.  How fortunate they attacked the opposition leader, instead of him. PR, Grand Junction, CO (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 2:27 PM)

You mean like our good friends also saved from those nasty insurgents, friends like Manuel Noriega and a few other central amerikan slimebag dictators, and our very good friend who ran Iraq before we saved Iraq from him, and his buddy next door who ran Iran, and the Taliban that the US supported in their brave fight for freedom against the USSR... and that's the short list...

Rest well, Benazir. We hardly knew ya.

Les, Jamestown NY (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:20 PM)

Pam Bignardi:

"Horrifyingly, both Rudy Giuliani and Mitt Romney are working this tragedy into their campaign speeches today; just how low can these evil men stoop??"

So did Hilary and Obama......so??

katsyb, Montana (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:22 PM)

Hey and Musharraf abolished their Constitution..sort of like what Bush is doing. They are birds of a feather.

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:23 PM)

scott henderson nv (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 3:39 PM)


Violent assassination, increasing the turmoil in an already dangerously unstable country ... and you try to make juvenile jokes.

Please try to have the courtesy, for once, to--I don't know--shut up for a day.

ek, mpls mn (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:24 PM)

Thank God Countdown is back.

I miss Keith!

(BTW I thought David Shuster did a great job filling in -- hint hint). Allison does fine, too.

riffle New York NY (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:35 PM)

Benazir Bhutto was a dead-woman walking the second  she returned to Pakistan. She knew it, Mushariff knew it and the Bush Administration knew it. As to who was behind the assassination just go with your first thoughts. Bhutto was a true freedom fighter who knew that she would become a martyr long before she was able to accomplish personally what she envisioned for her people.  

As far as Iraq goes in relation to Pakistan, one can see that all it takes in this region is the killing of one person of some influence to throw a country into total chaos. It matters not if so-called surges have a degree of success. So we are supposed to think that Iraq is reaching some level of stability? This region can eat you up and spit you out on a whim. Bush is not at fault for this assassination. But he is certainly at fault for thinking he can control what goes on in Iraq, Pakistan and other countries in this region no matter the military might of the US.

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:50 PM)

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:50 PM)

Spot on C A; outstanding!!

PEACE!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 5:00 PM)

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:50 PM)

Good, C A.  Very good analysis.  And my first thoughts are still of the Pakistani regime--because it appears to me, wrong though it may be--that she was a greater threat at the present time to Musharraf than to the other factions in that grievously divided country.

Faire Elinor (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 5:13 PM)

No Scott Henderson, you are the broken record. If someone is going to take cheap shots and smear people we know it is scott henderson. Someone who adds absolutely nothing to an arguemment then their own hate and bias then we are talking about scott henderson. Someone that will blindly defend this administration and blame everthing on Clinton, then we are talking about scott henderson. If we are talking about someone who does not have courage and belittles those that actually served then we are talking about scott henderson. If we need someone to justify torture, rendition, and unlimited detainment, we are talking about scott henderson. You want to talk about a broken record, everyone knows exactly where you stand scott henderson. If it helps the republic party to the detrement of the country as a whole, then we are talking about scott henderson. scott henderson is all about party loyalty and to belittel, demonize, and smear anyone that thinks other wise. Well when you talk about scott henderson, he just regurgitates Rush's talking points. So technically he is a broken record. He can only repeat what he has been told by other people. Original thought is a concept scott henderson does not understand. Wow don't I sound like a broken record talking about scott henderson.

bobf (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 5:40 PM)

Also very glad that Keith is returning, although I did enjoy his substitutes.  I too wish it was under better circumstances.  I had to reread the headline on huffingtonpost several times before it sunk in.  

Sad state of affairs.
It's no excuse, but we must remember that Pakistan (in addition to many countries in the Middle East) are relatively young nations and are still working out some of the kinks.  I hope that some kind of peace comes to that region when we have a democrat in the Oval Office.  

I just hope and pray that Mr. Bush does not view this as an opportunity to lend our support (aka-invade and occupy) Pakistan in an effort to stabilize that nation.

Anyway, I am pretty sad at this news and am really looking forward to Keith's analysis.

Happy New Year everyone!

Sarah, Tucson, AZ (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 5:40 PM)

katsyb, Montana (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 4:22 PM)

You're correct; I just was emailed what Obama's campaign manager said.  He attacked Hillary Clinton while using this tragedy!! It's the same; no change!!

I hate this!! One would think on ONE day, with this horrible event, ALL politicians could just not think about "me, me and me!!" No one should spin this; it’s despicable!!

PEACE TO YOU!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 5:59 PM)

news hole; come on --update the blog. after more than a week it's crappy moderation?

horrible (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 6:00 PM)

news hole, here we go again. post all comments

thank you (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 6:07 PM)

I am sad for the Pakistani people at the loss of Mrs. Bhutto. Today they've lost a leader that could've helped the Pakistani people to break away from the dictitorial government and the religious extremism that is preventing the country from moving forward with democracy and freedom. I am also ashamed of our government and President, that instead of pursuing the ones who brought murder and mayhem to our doorstep in Afghanistan, they instead chose to pursue an old vendetta in Iraq. By taking these actions and letting Al-Quaeda get away Mr. Bush, you are hereby responsible for this awlful tragedy, because if we would have done what was right and just we would've pursued the terrorists that attacked us and their leaders into the gates of hell and this would almost certainly would'nt have happened because their wouldn't be no comeback or regeneration of their forces. The frickin terrorists wouldn't have been able to migrate into Pakistan Mr. Bush!      

George, Louisville KY (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 6:53 PM)

So glad to have Keith back on tonight.  What a great tradegy today.  A completely brave and selfless woman!  Going back to Pakistan knowing that her life was in danger, but willing to do so for the good of the Pakistani people.  Her family and country are in our prayers.

Pat P, south of the Windy City, IL (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 7:10 PM)

George, Louisville KY (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 6:53 PM)

Agreed, sir.  An excellent and insightful summation of the real issues.  It is, in fact, my own opinion that this is probably the work of the Talibani (Al Qaeda) warlords, maybe even under the direction of Osama bin Laden.  No one benefits by a de-stabilized Pakistan more than they do.  By ignoring the problem and allowing Al Qaeda to regroup in Pakistan, we created the conditions that allowed this to occur.  In addition to the boost this gives Al Qaeda, there is the added side effect that it ultimately helps both Musharraf and Nawaz Sharif.  I don’t think either one of them would have dared to do it, but neither one probably minds it very much.  What on earth do we do now?  Round up the usual suspects?  We haven’t even tried to round them up before now.  

Anna Molly (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 7:35 PM)

Thanks for coming back today, Keith and Countdown staff. When things like this happen, we need you and your sense.

Rest in peace, Benazir. I only wish we could find some peace in this world.

Tru M., Cleveland, Ohio (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 7:50 PM)

I have read a few posts today suggesting that Ms. Bhutto may have been foolish by putting herself into harm’s way.  I presume no one is trying to say that Ms. Bhutto should not have gone back to Pakistan, or that she should have stayed under cover, or that we did not have any obligation to do more directly to prevent what happened here.  If anyone is NOT at fault for killing Ms. Bhutto, it is Ms. Bhutto.  The fact that she was brave enough to lead so openly does not in any way excuse the Bush administration for failing to do more about Pakistan.  In order to encourage her followers, Ms. Bhutto had to show that she was brave enough to confront the government.  In order to show that the U.S. really supports democracy, we needed to do more to help her.  We could have put more pressure on Musharraf to deal with the Talibani warlords and/or to find bin Laden.  We could have shown her more open support, thereby encouraging her supporters.  We did neither of these things.  There was and still is far too much at stake in Pakistan for the Bushies to have ignored this problem so completely.  An excellent post by a gentleman named George from Louisville sets out clearly what the Bush administration did wrong here.  It goes well beyond hubris.  We had the means to prevent the resurgence of the Talibani warlords and Al Qaeda in Pakistan.  We could have made Musharraf do it, but we didn’t.  Ms. Bhutto’s death may have been the probable result of our failings, but it’s most certainly not her fault.

Anna Molly (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 7:51 PM)

Democracy is necessary to peace and to undermining the forces of terrorism ...

The government I led gave ordinary people peace, security, dignity, and opportunity to progress ...

The Taliban have apparently given refuge to an Arab who is leading a Jihad against the United States and who apparently sponsored the bombings ...

It's true that General Musharraf opposed my return, seeing me as a symbol of democracy in the country.  He is comfortable with dictatorship.  I hope better sense prevails ...

Democracy needs support and the best support for democracy comes from other democracies. Democratic nations should ... come together in an association designed to help each other and promote what is a universal value — democracy ...

The next few months are critical to Pakistan's future direction as a democratic state committed to promoting peace, fighting terrorism and working for social justice ...

Fortune Cookie (in memoriam) (Benazir Bhutto) (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:21 PM)

Anna Molly--they're blue.

IC (sez the formerly blind woman) (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:36 PM)

Thanks for coming back, Keith, but you really dropped the ball on something.  Are you aware that of all the presidential candidates, it was only JOHN EDWARDS who put in a call to Musharraf today AND GOT A CALL BACK?  He's been spun as the foreign policy lightweight, but not even Hillary pulled that off.  And you also let Dana Milbank perpetuate the meme that this helps Giuliani and Clinton -- something that's only true IF THE MEDIA insists on putting it out there.  You're usually right on the money, but on this one, not so much, I'm afraid.

JJ in NJ (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 9:30 PM)

Mike Malloy on Air America just played audio of Sir David Frost talking with Benazir Bhutto, in which she mentioned "the man who had murdered Osama Bin Laden." Please push to have this truth exposed!!! Does the Bush regime keep this bombshell from us to keep the straw man alive? Did a Bush/Musharef deal favoring the arms industry just hire an assassin and a fanatic suicide bomber to keep Bush/Musharef in power?

DAVID STONE, CHICAGO, IL (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 9:34 PM)

Good Thursday evening, everyone. Not knowing if there will be a thread for tonight's show, I guess I'll post some thoughts here. The email left behind by Mrs. Bhutto was truly spooky - vaguely reminiscent of the tape left behind by Harvey Milk. She was truly prepared to fight for her country literally to her last breath.

Of course, Musharf is going to blame "Islamic extremists,"; he arguably had the most to gain by her death! And, GWB talked to him for a whole 10 minutes today? You can't even bake a frozen pizza in that time.

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 10:12 PM)

I thought the point made by Hillary Mann Leverett about GWB pushing not to postpone the elections was wonderful. This is the same GWB who pushed the Palestinians for elections, and we got Hamas. With Mrs. Bhutto's party not having a successor (how the heck did that happen?! You would've thought they'd  at least considered the possiblity of her death), and the other opposition party already saying they would boycott, Musharaf and his minions would probably come out on top with the few people who bother to vote. I would say that the US is not getting out $5 billion worth out of President/General/Dictator/Whatever Musharaf. It was awfully big of him, though, to declare 3 whole days of mourning for Mrs. Bhutto.

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 10:18 PM)

And, finally, to end my thoughts on even more of a downer note, Keith, I gotta smack ya' down just a bit on talking about Sen. Clinton VS. Sen. Obama after having Senator Dodd on earlier. C’mon…you’re better than falling into main-stream media political talking points, especially after hearing the wonderfully thoughtful points made by Senator Dodd. I, too, think that Mrs. Bhutto's party should have a chance to come up with a worthy candidate to succeed her. Maybe the other party who said they would boycott would come back to the process if the elections were postponed. I know putting off the elections might also give Musharaf time to figure out some way to hold onto power, but maybe - just maybe - if he tries any further "shenanigans" to stay in power, the US will rethink our efforts and all the money we're pouring into that country. As pointed out tonight, he needs US support desperately. That fact just might make him "behave." Who knows...I won't hold my breath.

Thanks, Keith, for coming back to report on this very important story.

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 10:27 PM)

The people of good will, are more dangerous than the bad. One can negate a cruel army. That is dangerous.

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 10:53 PM)

Thanks for the show tonight, Countdown.  

Have you all seen Rudy's new ad, released today?  Calling helpful people on 9/11 the "children, grand children, great grand children of the Greatest Generation."  And how if those bad terrorists try to come over here and steal our freedom they'll see what we're made of?  Well, what about those people already here who are stealing our freedoms?  

The man is utterly shameless.  Today was not the day for releasing an ad invoking mass murderers.  Today was a day to honor a woman who gave her life for her people.

It's the Shock Doctrine in action.  I wonder what he'll have to say tomorrow.

NWReader (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 10:59 PM)

Keith, you have no shame.  I used to respect you, but you now espouse only one political viewpoint under the guise of a news program.  Why do you never have guests on that disagree with you?  I mean, even O'Reilly invites the opposition on his show.  Debate is dead on Countdown.    

John, Winston-Salem, NC (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 11:20 PM)

It's been put out by some 'experts', that literally no Pakistani group, outside of Bhutto's own followers, want a Woman leading a 'Muslim' Nation. That seems to ring true with radical fundamentalist groups of a slightly different ilk, here in the USA, concerning Hillary leading a 'Christian' Nation.  The only difference in the philosophies? The Pakistani ones want to go back to 630 and the US ones want to go back to 1830.

Steve Turner Cedar Falls Iowa (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 12:03 AM)

bobf-

PERFECTLY SAID!!!

Kathy (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 12:17 AM)

bobf-

PERFECTLY SAID!!!

Kathy (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 12:17 AM)

I just bought Keiths new book today online.  Im looking forward to reading, especially as the death of former P.M. Bhutto is in the news. It is a sad day. She championed fairness and peace in a place that didnt have it.  The only problem is, now, the Republicans will use this as a tool for war.  Rest In Peace, Ms. Bhutto,and thank you Keith for the good job today.

Joe LaForm Behtlehem,Pa (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 12:59 AM)

NV Scott:

Yeah, we're a bunch of bush haters.  Pakistan goes out of control while The Neo-Cons mini-nuke Iran, and we blame Bushie Boy.  We are so crap.  The Taliban make a comeback while The Neo-Cons start a war w/ Iraq, and we blame Bushie Boy.  We have some nerve, because Neo-Cons NEVER hated or blamed Clinton--as YOU know all too well.

Do you believe that Pakistan is a lesser problem than Iran?  Do you have anything to offer other than we hate bush?

Talvenada, Phila., Penna. (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 1:24 AM)

Anna Molly--they're blue. IC (sez the formerly blind woman) (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:36 PM)

Does this hint at the return of the one with the twitching tale?

kat-a-touie (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 1:39 AM)

Thank You Keith for coming back to report on Benazir Bhutto. We appreciate your much needed voice in this. I could say so many things about this beautiful, brave woman, but I will only say I was deeply, deeply saddened by her death. I have admired her for many years. Knowing her fate, she moved forward anyway to help her people and restore democracy to her country. The world has lost a great leader. She will not soon be forgotten. My thoughts are with her children and family.

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 2:12 AM)

Fortune Cookie (in memoriam) (Benazir Bhutto) Thursday, December 27, 2007 8:21 PM..thank you Fortune Cookie for posting this.

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 2:16 AM)

A very sad day indeed ....Go to 6:10 in this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIO8B6fpFSQ

She says Osama bin Laden Is dead and who murdered him and has been dead for awhile....
The plot thickens...What does this say about why she was killed?It sure as hell makes you wonder...

Nick Eddie, Memphis Tn (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 2:34 AM)

Sounds like when Condoleeza dropped Benazir off in Pakistan, all she gave her was a message from Dubya, instructing her to "...go over and see MOO-SHER-IFF and do that Democracy-thing...". It's the same MO used for the first troops sent into the 'Liberated' Iraq. No bulletproof vests, no armored Hummers, no frequency jammers, only the inferred advice of "...get your family to send you some." Unfortunately, Bhutto's family was dead, from previous Pakistani misfortunes. Pervez, copying Dubya's technique of the fluid time line, didn't realize she would need any protection until five minutes after she died. His original way of keeping her safe, was to just lock her up.  Washington needed her to be out on the hustings, for reasons that undoubtedly are Congressional-Proof Top Secret. In the end, we are left with one more thing we'll never know the truth about, and one more dead Muslim who would talk with Americans. Just an Independent observation.

Steve Turner cedar Falls Iowa (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 2:58 AM)

I thought that we were winning the war on terror. You can't bring democracy to those who don't want it.

rush limpbaugh (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 7:40 AM)

A fortune for the new year, honoring Benazir Bhutto --

Imagine there's no heaven
It's easy if you try
No hell below us
Above us only sky
Imagine all the people
Living for today...
Imagine there's no countries
It isn't hard to do
Nothing to kill or die for
And no religion too
Imagine all the people
Living life in peace...
You may say I'm a dreamer
But I'm not the only one
I hope someday you'll join us
And the world will be as one …

Fortune Cookie (Dreams Edition) (the Beatles, John Lennon, Imagine) (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 8:55 AM)

Dear Countdown bloggers,

Here's hoping you can all put aside for the time being all the tragic events happening in the world and take some time out and enjoy spending time with your family and friends on Saturday night watching the football game. As meaningless as this may sound at such a moment, it really isn't. It's quite the opposite. Sports, and in particular, a potential record setting game taking place in New York, has a way of providing us much needed relief from the real world. Whether you want the New York Giants or New England Patriots to win is unimportant. Spending time with family and friends during the Holiday Season - that is what's important.

So to all of you, call family members, call your friends, get together with as many of them as possible - and enjoy the game.

Happy New Year.

Tom Brady & Eli Manning (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 9:36 AM)

I didn't really know Mrs. Bhutto other that what the various media has reported. Corruption in her administration? Political ideological differences? I really don't know firsthand.
What I do know is I respect her greatly for her response to the terrorists, dictators, thugs, and various ne'er-do-wells...she continued to live her life unabashed, undeterred, undismayed.
I lived in Frankfurt, Germany in the 1980's, while serving in the US Army. This was quite a while before The War Against Terror was launched, back before must Americans knew any of us was at risk. We lived with terrorism every day...taking different routes to work, maintaining a low profile when off-base, being hyper-vigilant 24/7. From my close encounter while on gate guard with one of the faces from the terrorist poster in 1983 to the November 1985 PX bombing - I had pulled out from the parking spot next to the car bomb just a few minutes before it detonated - I lived with terrorism, up close and personal. One thing we were taught is that they want us to change, to give up our liberties, hide in fear. I refused then to give in to the fear. If the blow me up, oh well. But I'm not going to sacrifice my liberties, rights, freedoms - what being an American really means - in fear. To paraphrase something attributed to Ben Franklin (one of my heroes), I refuse give up liberty for security, for I deserve both, but without liberty there is no security.
9/11 didn't change that for me at all, it only strengthened my position. I refuse to give up my liberties to anyone, be they the clowns who've usurped our Constitution these past few years or the crazy religious fanatics of any faith who seek to impose their insanity on me.
Mrs. Bhutto embodied these ideals, from what I can see. Continuing to campaign after repeated assassination attempts, standing up to psychotic heads of state, speaking out against oppression...good woman, that.
I've never met Mrs. Bhutto. I didn't really know her, other that what the various media has reported. But in the love of freedom, the belief in a better life for all, the willingness to stand against all opposition to do the right thing, I think she and I were kindred spirits. She'll be missed.

DesertStormVet, Cedar Rapids, Iowa (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 10:05 AM)

Steve. are you quoting a democrat line? People of good will are more dangerous??? I like it, keep it up. Spread the word. I think it will catch on with most liberals, not most Americans.

Larry Charleston, SC (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 10:08 AM)

Sean Penn and his wife of 11 years have split. My guess is she got real tired of his political rants but he was a work in progress to begin with.

Full Moon (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 10:12 AM)

With Mrs. Bhutto's party not having a successor (how the heck did that happen?!

Well, Krista      I'd say it's more of dubya/darth doctrine --- "They'll greet us as liberators".  "Last throes of insurgency".  This admin orchestrated her return, so I feel quite comfortable with placing the blame on the Decider's shoulders.  I'm surprised that he didn't smirk/shrill when offering his vapid condolences.  

Texashogfan (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 10:23 AM)

"I don't need to hear what Keith has to say I already know - it's Bush's fault."

Well, let's see now; Bush has given Musharef over $5M of my hard-earned tax dollars to (ahem) "fight terrorism", and yet he can't even provide protection for a beloved (by some) public figure within the borders of his own country?

Let's not even address the "deal" Musharef made with Al Quida ("we won't pursue you or allow US troops to pursue you if you promise not to attack our border with Afghanistan") that allowed Al Quida AND the Taliban to regroup and flourish.

Can Dubya get our $5M back, please??

On another note, why izzit that Obama and Hillary get all of the press/buzz, yet the most intelligent, knowledgeable, reasonable and well-spoken candidates continue to be Joe Biden and Chris Dodd?

Flipkid, Blue State (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 10:28 AM)

Location: San Francisco Zoo

Life comes at you fast when you taunt animals, especially a 350 pound Siberian tiger named Tatiana.

The result: One young man dead and the two other "victims" aren't talking, refusing to co-operate with police, who have called the killing area a crime scene.

Tigers don't commit crimes. People do. And is taunting an animal a crime?

Right now, 12/28, I'm siding with the tiger.
The rest of you can blame GWB.

Full Moon (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 10:42 AM)

Today, while watching the snow fall, I’ve also been watching the candidates tell us they know what to do about Pakistan.  Oh, really?  Then why haven’t they been talking about Pakistan up till now?  Despite all the warning signs, Pakistan didn’t seem very important to any of them until yesterday, did it?  

And by the way, if they think they know what to do, they ought to stop playing hide-the-peanut political games and tell us -- right now.  That’s what statesmanship is.  What happened yesterday resulted, at least in part, from years of neglect (benign or otherwise) by the Bush administration.  It’s obvious that President Bush either does not know what to do or has an actual agenda that is counterintuitive to most of us.  We can’t expect President Bush to provide a solution.

I read yesterday that Pakistan has 70 armed nuclear warheads.  That’s about 69 more than Al Qaeda needs.  Pakistan has already reached a dangerous level of instability.  If we have to wait another year for a new president to lay out a strategy, it may well be too late.  We need answers ... now.

Anna Molly (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 10:52 AM)

Huffington Post Friday - Benazir Bhutto: One Night in Brentwood

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/harry-shearer/benazir-bhutto-one-night_b_78439.html

U.S. Options for a Post-Bhutto Pakistan

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/lionel-beehner/us-options-for-a-postb_b_78461.html

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 10:59 AM)

Huffington Post Friday - Hillary Clinton's Serious Iowa Problem

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/dave-mudcat-saunders/hillary-clintons-serious_b_78412.html

Laura..very chilly..in Los Angeles (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 11:09 AM)

Krista, I agree with your reasoning.  On everything.  It's time to call everybody, from Dubya to Musharraf, on the BS.  What I would like to know is, what makes everybody so certain this is extremist elements responsible for the Bhutto tragedy?  It seems to me that the possibility must be allowed that it's elements within the Musharraf government, since they all appear to be cut from the same militaristic thug mold as he is.  He had more to lose if he was forced by this upcoming "election" to share power than any of those terrorists hiding in the corners; he wouldn't have the illusion of total control anymore.  

Just another fine mess for the Bush spin doctors to dizzy themselves with.

Faire Elinor (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 11:16 AM)

To Keith Olbermann and All News Hole Staff..May you and yours have a very HAPPY NEW YEAR..stay safe.

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 11:33 AM)

To All My Blogger Friends..It's been a great time for me being with you all. My hope for 2008 is for peace and that our country get back what it once was..great and strong. To all of you have a very HAPPY NEW YEAR. Take care, see you back next year and please stay safe.

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 11:36 AM)

The work goes on, the cause endures, the hope still lives and the dreams shall never die.

Fortune Cookie (Dreams Edition) (Edward Kennedy) (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 11:37 AM)

One more “bust” on Rudy; coming to the aid of a drug maker!! Rudy, you really need to just go away!!

“In western Virginia, far from the limelight, United States Attorney John L. Brownlee found himself on the telephone last year with a political and legal superstar, Rudolph W. Giuliani.

For years, Mr. Brownlee and his small team had been building a case that the maker of the painkiller OxyContin had misled the public when it claimed the drug was less prone to abuse than competing narcotics. The drug was believed to be a factor in hundreds of deaths involving its abuse.

Giuliani, celebrated for his stewardship of New York City after 9/11, soon told the prosecutors they were wrong.

In 2002, the drug maker, Purdue Pharma of Stamford, Conn., hired Mr. Giuliani and his consulting firm, Giuliani Partners, to help stem the controversy about OxyContin. Among Mr. Giuliani’s missions was the job of convincing public officials that they could trust Purdue because they could trust him.”

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/22416426/

PEACE!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 11:49 AM)

I echo the statements of others here; a HUGE thank you Keith for coming back to cover this tragic story!!

PEACE TO YOU AND GOOD LUCK SIR!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 12:32 PM)

Is it just me, or does anyone else think that it's possible that Al-Qaeda will never have to attack us directly again, but just keep up with the assinations and suicide bombers and eventually they'll turn the rest of the world against us - and GWB is playing right into their hands?? Today comes the news that Condi Rice brokered the deal to return Ms Bhutto to Pakistan - I believe that her death is directly linked to the disasterous policies of this administration - What a sad day for the people of Pakistan, and God help us if these idiots don't see what they are doing to our reputation around the world. I think it's gonna take a lot more than a new president to repair the years of damage this fool has done...

Laura, St. Louis, MO (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 12:33 PM)

JJ in NJ (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 9:30 PM)

Please, John Edwards cares about John Edwards!! He is phony; just like his apology on his "yay" vote for the Iraq War Resolution!! He sat on the Senate Intelligence Committee; the same committee Senator Durbin sat on prior to the vote.  Durbin voted “nay” and stated several months ago the evidence pointed “away from Saddam Hussein having WMD.”  

Edwards’ cast a “yay” vote anyway.  Why?  To further his political career; at that time, a “nay” vote could have, and actually was, a political death for some!! John Edwards voted for John Edwards period.  After Senator Durbin spoke out earlier this year, I lost all respect for Edwards; ironically, I voted for him in the 2004 California primary!! “If I had known then what I know now….”

No one should have politicized this tragedy; his phone call did!!

PEACE!!

Pam Bignardi, San Pedro, California (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 12:39 PM)

The events of the past 24 hours will certainly have an affect as to what happens all over the world in 2008 and in the years to come.  Each of the candidates..both Democratic and Republican...have made comments that don't reflect the horror of this assassination...Rudy is the worst...followed by Mitt..their comments have only been focused on the politics of terror.  Instead, we need to celebrate Mrs. Bhutto's life, her bravery and courage for standing up for what she believed in...the betterment of her homeland.  Yes, I know that as soon as she returned to her homeland...she was an automatic target for assasination...she was well aware of the risks...but her desire for a better country for her people was more important to her.  For that we must honor...

Rhonda O'Brien, South Carolina (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 1:01 PM)

"There is danger from all men. The only maxim of a free government ought to be to trust no man living with power to endanger the public liberty."



John Adams (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 1:01 PM)

A few months ago I saw broadcast from the United Nations Masharaf.  He said, "I was told by the diplomat from the US that if I didn't go along with them they would bomb us back to the stone age".  So who's policy is he really following?

BJHurd, Ottawa, Canada (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 1:23 PM)

I never miss Countdown, which is why I can ask this:

In the segment about the presidential candidates' reactions to Bhutto's assassination, why did you find time for Romney, McCain and that "small man in search of a balcony" (Breslin's apt description of Giuliani) on the Republican side, but only Clinton and Obama on the Democratic side?  

Did Edwards withdraw when I wasn't looking, or is Countdown going the way of the rest of the MSM by assuming that this is a "two-horse race"?

Edwards is winning in Iowa, by the way.

Stephen Hooper, Fort Myers, FL (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 1:56 PM)

Wow it's al-Quida's fault complete with an intercept.How come they have all this good Intel now and couldn't stop 9/11 or didn't know about the WMD?
Rudy since your riding the 9/11 wave with the rest of RNC and it looking like IWO JIMA. How bout paying the Troops the same salaries and benefits the NYPD and NYFD gets,I am sure there families could use them,since there job seem to carry a worse risk with poor equipment.The Rove Fear machine and lie boys will ride this one. Told ya the Bin laden Santa tape was coming out before Christmas.
Let's take care of our own crooks in this country in Government before we worry about Pakistan.Dubya,Cheney,and the bagman rover have done quite a bit of world terror including us.When guys like Nevada scott support em that speaks volumes.The poster child for the RNC, scott of Henderson,Nevada.

B. A. Buddusky (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 2:01 PM)

Joe LaForm (12:59 AM Post):

The truth is Joe that the world has a habit of eliminating those who champion fairness and peace, including in the US. Names as Sadat, Kennedy, King, Bhutto and many others come to mind. We are not capable of living without violence whether an aggressor or a defender. It is not in man's nature to forsake all violence and to live in complete harmony with one another. Those who aspire to a world without violence are seen as weak and are taken advantage of by those with greater evil in their hearts. This is how man is and how man always will be until we destory ourselves or some thing or someone greater then ourselves destroys the human race. In the meantime we need people like Sadat, Kennedy, King and Bhutto to give us hope for world peace and harmony until the end. Without such people in our history man would given up or destroyed himself long ago.  

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 2:17 PM)

Today when I go out, I'll drape a white scarf over my head to honor Ms Bhutto.

Midwest Viewer (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 2:19 PM)

kat-a-touie (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 1:39 AM)

I'll never tell.  IC will have to speak for herself.  (:

Anna Molly (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 2:27 PM)

'We're Back' was really just a little tweak-right?  It's Friday and news is popping all over the globe.  Where's Countdown?  Not here.  Now we're heading into another holiday weekend.

Hmmm, perhaps we'll see you sometime around, say, Easter????

To be oh so like a teenager:  What-everrrrrr!

Jamie, thankfully avoiding all the bothersome calls and junk mail by presidential wannabes, Lago Patria, Italia (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 2:45 PM)

The true danger is when liberty is nibbled away, for expedience, and by parts.


Edmund Burke (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 3:20 PM)

Larry Charleston, SC (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 10:08 AM)
Steve. are you quoting a democrat line? People of good will are more dangerous??? I like it, keep it up. Spread the word. I think it will catch on with most liberals, not most Americans.

Larry, I can't answer directly for Steve. As a recent convert to Democratic principles (after the Republicans decided to become the Theocrat-Corpuplican party), I don't remember seeing that 'line' in the Democratic Manifesto we 'liberals' all follow blindly.
I think it means, however, that the road to hell is paved with good intentions. Meaning to 'do good' while being at least mildly insane (blindly following your 'leaders', listening to the voices in your head, etc) tends to generate folks like Hitler, Eric Rudolph, and
those masterminds of 9/11, UBL (2001) and David McMenemy (2006)...terrorists all.
Without a reality check in place, it's easy for folks with the best of intentions to totally fark up a perfectly good planet. Larry, I believe your intentions are good...and I'm glad you hang out here. We're your reality check.

What Price Freedom? Blood and Sweat, thank a Vet.

DesertStormVet, Cedar Rapids, Iowa (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 3:22 PM)

Full Moon 10:42 AM..I'm also siding with Tatiana. It was night, the zoo was closing, this tiger would have no reason in the world to jump her enclosure unless she was being taunted in some way. It was just reported that one or two of these guys has been in trouble before. That tiger was killed because of people not staying their distance. You get a 350lb. tiger angry, you better be prepared to get hurt. So they found the wall was only 12' high and not the 18' it should have been. So she was able to jump over it, that's how angry she was and someone got killed and 2 hurt. When will people learn?

Laura..it's still freakin' cold outside..in Los Angeles (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 3:24 PM)

Has scott's hero-president really vetoed the bill that contains the 3% raises for the troops?  It contained language that gave Iraqis who suffered at the hands of Saddam's regime the ability to sue the Iraqi government for their losses.  Hear the Iraqi government squealing?  Hear the scratch of the Decider's Bic pen?  

Impeaches'n'Cream (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 3:35 PM)

C A 2:17 PM..well said C A..well said..HAPPY NEW YEAR!

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 3:37 PM)

Tom Brady & Eli Manning 9:36 AM..sounds like a winner folks! HAPPY NEW YEAR to you also.

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 3:42 PM)

kat-a-touie (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 1:39 AM)

Nope--IC stands for I confess--

I Confess (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 3:54 PM)

Love ya Keith, Glad your are back!
Did Bhutto always stand up in the car under those circumstances - or was she perhaps encouraged to by an insider from her campaign or in the car in order to have her open to be assasinated?  Sounds to me like it could have been arranged because a suicide bomber was there waiting for her to be in the open instead of in the armoured car.
Hmmmmmm.....
Mussaraf didn't want her to have additional security...
Hmmmm.....
Election is soon..... Hmmmm
Fishy, fishy, fishy...

Harmony (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 3:58 PM)

Quoting Beatles lyrics? Lennon was great, but spare me the neo-hippie fantasy. Nobody is listening.Bhutto is dead. Leave the tye-die and patchouli oil at home. Let's be selfish, shall we? Planes crash into The WTC which were hijacked by Saudi's. Al-Qeada( Bin Laden? Remember him?) is still entrenched in Afghansitan and in Pakistan. We spearhead our military might toward Iraq(this is so exhausting). Is our US population a collective of morons? I have another suggestion. My small contingent of like minded people can team up with Liberals who finally grow spines so we can smack down Neo-Con blowhards who drank the kool-aid many years ago. Here's a little secret. Most of them are gutless wimps. They aren't too tough. Don't be afraid.

Bill Kleppel, New York, NY (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 4:09 PM)

Steve Turner, Cedar Falls, Iowa (2:58 am post) -

Well said, sir - I hate to put any (more) pressure on you folks in Iowa, but for God's sake, please, your caucuses next week will be even more important now, if that's possible, I hope the voters make good choices and are not hoodwinked by the Republican fearmongers -  

Laura, St. Louis Mo (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 4:16 PM)

How far that little candle throws his beams!
So shines a good deed in a weary world …

Fortune Cookie (quoting Shakespeare, quoting Portia) (The Merchant of Venice) (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 4:38 PM)

As of Friday, 12/28/2007

There are 389 days until the end of this regime on 1/20/2009
There are 374 days until the end of this Congress on 1/5/2009 ???
There are 312 days until election day -- 11/4/2008

The first Caucus/Primary hasn't happened yet!  Evaluate ALL the candidates and think wisely before you vote.
And we are counting down.

Carol, Long Valley NJ (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 4:43 PM)

hi keith, you are THE ONLY REAL, LEGITIMATE, AND HONEST NEWS PROFESSIONAL OPERATING ON TELEVISION TODAY. i cannot believe what the networks are doing at 6:30 every nite. it's scary to watch the fluff that is passed off as world news. they don't cover washington at all. i am wondering how big the story would have to be in the whitehouse or congress before it would be covered and covered honestly from all angles. i want to thank GE for allowing keith olbermann to speak the truth and to continue to keep us informed about the unspeakable corrupt and inept administration known as the bush-cheney fascist dictatorship and also the inept and corrupt and complicit and duplicit congress. boy, were we ripped off in november of 2006!!!!! THANK GOD FOR KEITH OLBERMANN!!!! i saw keith on bill moyers journal on pbs and bill asked keith why he is allowed to speak the truth considering GE's close ties with this corrupt regime. keith said, "because i make them money". that's one thing you can count on in america. capitalists and politicians are whores, if there is significant money to be made, they will gladly play both ends against the middle and laugh all the way to the bank. i have one little complaint about countdown: too much fluff and redundance concerning idiots like britney spears. i know you need some levity in your program but there must be something more intelligent yet funny to talk about. the "worst person in the world" is a great idea, please keep that, but please dump the dumb redundant stuff. we ARE smarter than that. let billo do that crap!

tony martin, whitehall, pa (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 5:56 PM)

excuse me newshole folks, "We're Back" with a pic of then alive Ms. Bhutto is just bit on the tacky side don't you think.

untitled (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 6:07 PM)

DesertStormVet, Cedar Rapids, Iowa (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 10:05 AM) Thank you so much for your thoughtful post. Will you be happy when all the candidates leave Iowa? ;) The only halfway comparable experience I've had in this area was that I was attending an academic advising conference in Cincinnati, OH the weekend before the Nov. 2004 presidential election. EVERY SINGLE AD on TV was a GWB or Kerry ad. Ugh...I turned the TV off after a couple of hours.

Thank you also so much for your service to our country.

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 7:57 PM)

Bhutto tells David Frost two months ago that Omar Sheikh
murdered Osama B Ladin.  youtube.com/watch?v=XLItJMVNleY
or  democraticunderground.com/disuss/dubboard.ph... or Mike Malloy on Nova M Radio.

jesuswasntafascist (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 7:59 PM)

Bhutto tells David Frost two months ago that Omar Sheikh
murdered Osama B Ladin.  youtube.com/watch?v=XLItJMVNleY
or  democraticunderground.com/disuss/dubboard.ph... or Mike Malloy on Nova M Radio.

jesuswasntafascist (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 7:59 PM)

Bhutto tells David Frost two months ago that Omar Sheikh
murdered Osama B Ladin.  youtube.com/watch?v=XLItJMVNleY
or  democraticunderground.com/disuss/dubboard.ph... or Mike Malloy on Nova M Radio.

jesuswasntafascist (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 8:02 PM)

Texashogfan (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 10:23 AM)
The first thought that came to my twisted little head was, "Can...you...tell...I'm...reading...this...off...of...a...cue...card?"

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 8:03 PM)

Bhutto tells David Frost two months ago that Omar Sheikh
murdered Osama B Ladin.  youtube.com/watch?v=XLItJMVNleY
or  democraticunderground.com/disuss/dubboard.ph... or Mike Malloy on Nova M Radio.

jesuswasntafascist (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 8:03 PM)

Faire Elinor (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 11:16 AM)
In the words of the Bartles & James boys (hope you remember those ads), thank you for your support. I love how our administration and Musharraf are busting their humps with their assertions that AlQaida was responsible for Mrs. Bhutto's murder and saying that there's proof, but they won't reveal their proof until later. Won't it be "trippy" if facts reveal that Musharraf's supporters or minions were responsible, then there will be undeniable proof that we've given billions of dollars to a thug? The United States has NEVER done that before! Oh...wait...NEVER MIND!

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 8:10 PM)

Having listened to Keith’s special commentary tonight about the “sacrifice” that is called for by Pres. Bush, I so need to say that it must be up to our Congress to impeach Bush and Cheney, even if it takes until the end of Bush’s administration. This “sacrifice” is so ridiculous. What are our senators and representatives doing besides knuckling under to Mr. Bush? Why? While the Democrats have the majority – Bush keeps the upper hand. So we need to slap that hand quickly and remove these two people from office. We need to show the world that Americans have gumption, that they see what is happening and can stop it. Show the world who is in charge of the United States government – Bush and Cheney who run things with clever language, secrecy, unconstitutional activities and outright lies? We must not allow this! Congress -- do something!

Anna M. West, Denver, Colorado (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 8:34 PM)

Fortune Cookie (Dreams Edition) (the Beatles, John Lennon, Imagine) (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 8:55 AM)

A Suicide Song? Or a Song that promotes Belief in Nothing? (Sorry in denigrating a song that many sees as profound)

Bhutto did Believe in Something worth dying for, and Unfortunately, she did die.

I have a fortune for you.

"Those who Believe in Nothing, will Believe Anything."

David Molinero (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 9:11 PM)

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 8:10 PM)

Lord, yes, I remember them!  Those ol' boys were my heroes!

Specially that ad with the holiday greetings--"I hope that's not too sentimental--"  Remember that one?

HAPPY NEW YEAR TO THE WORLD!

Faire Elinor (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 9:15 PM)

Impeaches'n'Cream (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 3:35 PM) I just read about this veto. The next time GWB or his minions mention the "support the troops" mantra, I want someone in the area to give them a big 'ol Bronx raspberry. If you're not going to truly support the troops by getting them out of harm's way, at least support them and their families by giving them a raise. The raise percentage in the bill was actually 3.5% - more than what was originally planned.

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 9:41 PM)

Bill Kleppel, New York, NY (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 4:09 PM)

Your small contingent of like-minded people?  Sounds interesting.  Almost like someone has been listening, after all, even if they’re not buying into the neo-hippie fantasy.  

But I am sorry if I gave you the impression that I’m afraid of neo-cons, don’t understand reality, or don’t have my priorities straight.  You obviously don’t know me.

I’ll make you a deal.  I'm always interested in new neo-con strategies.    If you tell me more about how these teams would work, I promise to leave the tie-dye and patchouli oil at home.  (I do, however, insist on wearing my mood ring,  It should come in handy for smacking down our resident neo-cons.  Some are tougher than others, you know.)      

Fortune Cookie (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 11:55 PM)

tony martin, whitehall, pa (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 5:56 PM)
If we let go of Bill O,Britney,Cheney,Rove  
will You become our redundant Odd-ball King.
Come on I read Dr. Seuss I know there are "Sneeches with Stars and Them Without Thars?"
Tony my man I thought you knew I am the King of Redundancy.There is one thing we all know if someone is from CT and some how is trying to come across as he is from TX,well that should tell ya,as old the old Joey Isuzu Commercial used to say "He's Lying."
In fact that should be a disclaimer under everything they say.Rover's gonna play the old Fear Card here. If they knew all this stuff,the Asama speech to come,and who did it,and all so quick,like someone else said why didn't they stop it?

B. A. Buddusky (Sent Saturday, December 29, 2007 1:14 AM)

WANT TELEVISION ON NEW CHANNEL STATION AND OTHER

ROBERTNORRINGTON CHICAGO, IL. 60636 (Sent Saturday, December 29, 2007 1:33 AM)

How disingenuous for Keith Olbermann to be touted as the most honest man in America.  While his point of view certainly has some merit, it is unfortunate that he doesn't allow any challenges to his often outrageous assertions. Fox News, while having a definite slant  (which news organization doesn't?), at least gives a format for legitimate discussion.  I have tried to watch this program, but it is so over the top, I just can't stand the one-sided diatribes. The same tunnel vision is reflected in many comments on The News Hole.

par, Fairhope, AL (Sent Saturday, December 29, 2007 1:42 AM)

I don't need to hear what Keith has to say I already know - it's Bush's fault.  lol..  He's like a broken record, probably why his ratings are so low.
scott henderson nv (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 3:39 PM


Get some help will ya?

MK, Indianapolis (Sent Saturday, December 29, 2007 8:57 AM)

Frankly, while I'm sorry that Bhutto was murdered, I doubt that she would have had any major impact on the politics of Pakistan one way or another.  The problems in Pakistan are far larger than the ability of any one person or, for that matter, any large group of people to solve, except through a long-term concerted effort to transform the political culture of the country from one controlled by a small landlord elite to a country that provides the kinds of benefits and services that we should all come to expect.

One need only take, as an example, the dreadful educational system that provides such lousy schooling to the poor majority that the local madrassa looks good.

Alison Brennan, Sacramento, CA (Sent Saturday, December 29, 2007 10:48 AM)

Before Bhutto was murdered she gave an interview to Sir David Frost in November.  She told him that Osama bin Laden was murdered.  Frost NEVER picked up on it, nor have anyone in the corporate mainstream media.  I heard this yesterday on the Thom Hartmann show.  If anyone else has heard the same thing,  could it be true?  And Keith, could YOU do some digging too?   Peace to all!   Happy 2008!  :)

Jodee, Cortland, NY (Sent Saturday, December 29, 2007 11:01 AM)

Happy Holidays All! I'm gearing up for tax season so I haven't been able to clutter the blog for a few days. Congrats, Kevin in NJ. Couldn't imagine a better Christmas gift.

The statements by the Musharraf government don't even begin to pass the smell test. He has obviously made a devil's bargain with the pro Taliban elements in his country to keep them from punching his ticket. I'm getting pretty tired of Dumbya calling Pakistan a democracy. The country has a long history of replacing leaders by assassination and military coups. The US has been in bed with many dictators over the years, especially during the cold war but this is the first time it has been with one who has nuclear capabilities in danger of being replaced by someone who has the jihadist mentality of the Islamic militants now scattered around the globe. As usual, Dumbya and Condi seem to have no plan B. Of course that is assuming they ever had a plan A. Bush seems to be able to respond only in a reactive manner, never in a proactive posture.

gator,stuart,fl (Sent Saturday, December 29, 2007 12:22 PM)

Bill Kleppel -- I don’t think we’ve met before.  Fortune Cookie is nice enough, but she’s plainly not equipped for the technical work you’re proposing.  She seems a little tired, anyway.  You’re looking for someone more like me.  I tend to live in the present.  Patchouli oil stains my overalls, and my mood ring usually reads on the firey side.  According to my horoscope, selfish works right now.  I remember bin Laden only too well, I’m reputed to have a spine, and I already have some experience with neo-con smack-downs.  Liberals need to re-focus, that’s for sure.  Much less exhausting when like-minded folks share the same vision.  Here’s a little secret for you, sir -- I’m not afraid, if you’re not.  I'm looking forward to seeing you on the threads.

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Saturday, December 29, 2007 2:34 PM)

Hey gang. Off topic from Mrs. Bhutto's tragic death, but I know this just might be of interest to most of us here. I have Keith's new book in my hot little hands. I have found something I just tried that incredibly enriches the "reading" experience. If you have the time or are so inclined, have him reading the appropriate "Special Comment" in the background from COUNTDOWN's website as you're reading the book. You get the whole experience of his voice fluctuations, the pauses, the rage, the sarcasm, etc. My favorite college English professor suggested this method to our class when we began reading the poetry of Sylvia Plath; there were cassettes of Plath reading her work in our university library, and it was great!

Plus, by doing this, it's like Uncle Keith is reading us a story! ;D

Also, from an English professor point of view, the book is extremely well-written; nothing so far to make me shudder and think, "This guy needed to take MY English class!"

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Saturday, December 29, 2007 3:28 PM)

Thanks for coming back tonight, Keith. I have much been missing your "voice crying in the wilderness" speaking out the message which must be heard above the din of current political brainwashing. For Christmas my daughter gave me a copy of your book; today I gave her a gift: you. She and her boyfriend watched "Countdown" with me. I have made a new and faithful convert. She and her brother are 17, the boyfriend, 18. These young people are the agents of tomorrow's change. I have sent them forth with the most powerful, intelligent, honest ammunition that I can give them. Current political analysis with the full weight of historical context behind it. The fact that it is written by the Shakespearian master of prose of our age is the penultimate gift of all. Truth given in the sparkling gems of our English language as wielded by the consummate master of wordsmith working today is the most breathtaking, timeless gift of them all. Illegitimi non carborundum, Keith, and keep safe.

Rhiannon Rede, North Little Rock, AR (Sent Saturday, December 29, 2007 3:51 PM)

I usually think that everyone has something to offer even a C student like George W. maybe he's clever, You know like clever enough not to get cought or clever enough not to get shot. But this hole tradgety killed more than a hope. For anyone still on the fence about this guy who played his part bye not sharing what He has shown to be his only skill ... PLEASE jump of the fence. Join your brothers and help Us to heal OUR country I miss you.  Steve ,Tx.

Steve, ( Texas ) (Sent Saturday, December 29, 2007 4:13 PM)

The Case for Al Qaeda (Part I)

Many people have focused on President Musharraf as the most likely suspect in the assassination of Benazir Bhutto.  Here’s why I think that we should focus on Al Qaeda instead.

The Talibani warlords have never been Ms. Bhutto’s friends.  When she was in charge, she cracked down on them, something Musharraf has never done.  Ms. Bhutto herself blamed the Talibani for the earlier bombings that killed more than 125 of her supporters.  Talibani warlords would not have taken kindly to having this uppity woman back in charge.

The assassin (or at least one of them) was a suicide bomber.  This strongly suggests jihadist, not military loyalist.  

The fact that Al Qaeda is denying responsibility should not be given any credence.  Why would Al Qaeda want to let Musharraf off the hook and focus attention on themselves?  Musharraf does not benefit from destabilization, but Al Qaeda does.  Further destabilization allows the Talibani warlords to continue merrily along their present course of consolidating their own power and capturing big chunks of real estate (not to mention oppressing women).   If you’re not already familiar with these homegrown Al Qaeda militants, here’s an article that pretty much lays it out --

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/30/world/asia/30pakistan.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Saturday, December 29, 2007 5:49 PM)

The Case for Al Qaeda (Part II)

Contrary to conventional wisdom, President Musharraf does not benefit from Ms. Bhutto’s assassination, and neither do we (at least on the surface).  Musharraf would have to be a fool to do this and allow it to look like he did.  This is a complete embarrassment, both to him and to us.  How can we continue to prop him up?  In fact, I hear we’ve already starting talking to Nawiz Sharif.  Keep in mind that we initially opposed Sharif’s return to Pakistan.  This is the guy who was responsible for developing Pakistan’s nukes.  He’s spent the last couple of days blaming Musharraf and the United States for this mess.  He’s probably not our chosen bedfellow.  Here’s a link to an article that discusses how Sharif’s interests have been affected by Ms. Bhutto’s assassination --

http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/30/world/asia/30sharif.html?ref=world

Musharraf must have understood that he could not benefit from making himself an easy target for Sharif.   His best interests certainly were not served by killing Ms. Bhutto so close to the elections.  His interests were better served by rigging the elections, of which Bhutto and Sharif had already accused him.  So what?  He still controls the army, and he could have toughed it out, like Vladimir Putin (or George Bush).  If the elections go forward now, Sharif has vowed that his supporters will boycott, so the results will surely be tainted.  If they are postponed, it opens the door for Sharif to regroup and/or a successor to Bhutto to emerge.

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Saturday, December 29, 2007 5:50 PM)

The Case for Al Qaeda (Part III)

While it is true that Musharraf did not provide Bhutto with adequate security, leaving the window wide open doesn’t mean he also pulled the trigger.  We’ve given him $5 billion not to do anything at all about the Talibani or Osama bin Laden.  In fact, Musharraf appears to live in some kind of perverse state of co-existence with them.  And we’re not worried about it.  Ever wonder why?  

Maybe it’s because the Bush administration views the Taliban and Al Qaeda as the bogeymen they desperately need to keep pursuing their misguided “war on terror.”  Or maybe we knew that the Talibani would eventually do Musharraf’s dirty work for him.  Steve Turner has already hinted that Condoleezza Rice dropped Ms. Bhutto off in Pakistan, possibly for this exact purpose.  I don’t necessarily disagree with that, especially if we are trying to keep Musharraf in power for some deeper reason of our own (like he doesn’t go after the bogeymen).  If we did, then we probably would have preferred different timing, and we certainly wouldn’t have wanted it to look like Musharraf did it.  That might be readily apparent from the fact that we appear to have had no plan for that contingency.  In itself, this is evidence favoring Al Qaeda.  

All in all, I think the case for Al Qaeda is pretty strong.  But, of course, it also begs one very important question -- what on earth are we going to do about it now?

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Saturday, December 29, 2007 5:51 PM)

The Case for Al Qaeda (Part III)

While it is true that Musharraf did not provide Bhutto with adequate security, leaving the window wide open doesn’t mean he also pulled the trigger.  We’ve given him $5 billion not to do anything at all about the Talibani or Osama bin Laden.  In fact, Musharraf appears to live in some kind of perverse state of co-existence with them.  And we’re not worried about it.  Ever wonder why?  

Maybe it’s because the Bush administration views the Taliban and Al Qaeda as the bogeymen they desperately need to keep pursuing their misguided “war on terror.”  Or maybe we knew that the Talibani would eventually do Musharraf’s dirty work for him.  Steve Turner has already hinted that Condoleezza Rice dropped Ms. Bhutto off in Pakistan, possibly for this exact purpose.  I don’t necessarily disagree with that, especially if we are trying to keep Musharraf in power for some deeper reason of our own (like he doesn’t go after the bogeymen).  If we did, then we probably would have preferred different timing, and we certainly wouldn’t have wanted it to look like Musharraf did it.  That might be readily apparent from the fact that we appear to have had no plan for that contingency.  In itself, this is evidence favoring Al Qaeda.  

All in all, I think the case for Al Qaeda is pretty strong.  But, of course, it also begs one very important question -- what on earth are we going to do about it now?

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Saturday, December 29, 2007 5:55 PM)

A Suicide Song? Or a Song that promotes Belief in Nothing? (Sorry in denigrating a song that many sees as profound) Bhutto did Believe in Something worth dying for, and Unfortunately, she did die.  I have a fortune for you. "Those who Believe in Nothing, will Believe Anything." David Molinero (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 9:11 PM)

Not so, Mr. Molinero.  Apparently, you think I believe in nothing, but I seldom believe anything you tell me.  Or is that just the exception that proves the rule?  Hmmmm.  

And also apparently, not as many people like that song as I thought.  Even liberals.  Well, depends on what you think I was trying to say, I suppose.

Not a suicide song, perhaps, as much as a swan song.  At least in my case.  Anna Molly tells me I’m tired.  She’s right.  I guess I’ll just retire to my library with my new almanac.  For now.  I need to study up on my facts.  2008 promises to be busy.

A fortune for you, sir -- Being born in a duck yard does not matter, if only you are hatched from a swan's egg.  

Fortune Cookie (Swan Song Edition) (Hans Christian Andersen) (Sent Saturday, December 29, 2007 9:55 PM)

On 02 Nov 07 Benazir Bhutto was interviewed by Sir David from Al Jazeera English

The interview is 14min 38 sec long,
and she answers in debt, a question,
about who she thinks tried to assassinate her,
and if they would try again.

Here is a link to the complete interview:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIO8B6fpFSQ

Now I'm sure you'll find that interesting,
however pay close attention to what she says
6min and 10sec into the clip!!!

Did you catch that?
Of cause you did.. Was it a slip?
did she mean something else...?

Maybe she just don't know, what she is talking about? But then again,
this is a fairly intelligent women for whom
-knowing what was going on, in that part of the world,
for the past decade, was a matter of life and death,
She literary needed too surround her self
with  people, she trusted with her life,
and who never misinformed her..

Don't expect this to get as much as
a footnote mention, In any mainstream media
- but now you know

Claus Nielsen - Denmark (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 1:52 AM)

To Tom and Eli:  Thanks a bunch, the game was great!

Falling for another distraction, but it was worth it (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 8:34 AM)

Anna Molly aka Anomaly, your "Cases for Al Qaeda" are reasoned, logical, and very well-thought out. We could use you in the current administration, but, then again, you would've been fired long ago for being WAY TOO SMART for the current occupants. The only slight disagreement I have is that Musharraf has just as much to gain from instability as anyone. Remember all the arm twisting and virtual begging from the US that it took just to get him to give up control of the Army? Someone with a mindset like that thrives on instability and fear. Remind you of anyone else? Today's situation is a golden opportunity for him to "play the fear card" and declare another state of emergency basically entitling him to do whatever the heck he feels like.

When all is said and done, I have a feeling this will all play out into a tragic, perverted, lethal version of "the enemy of my enemy is my friend." Thank you again for your wonderful posts!

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 10:41 AM)

Whether we like it or not, the democratic primaries seem to be coming down to a three-way race, especially in Iowa.  Here are the latest polls for the CNN political ticker --

http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2007/12/29/poll-romney-regains-lead-in-iowa/

The MSNBC poll I saw this morning showed the democrat side to be a statistical dead heat among Edwards (24%), Obama (23%), Clinton (22%).  Ironically, everyone says  the eventual outcome may depend on whether it snows or not.  I guess it just goes to show how fickle political fortune can be.  

Anyway, owing to other recent commitments, I haven’t been able to follow this race as closely as I would like to have.   But I’ve had some breathing room over the past few days, and I’ve seen some press discussing Edwards’ pledge that corporate lobbyists won’t work in his administration, as well as Obama’s taking credit for passing sweeping lobbying reforms.  I saw Senator Edwards on TV this morning, and he reiterated his commitment to reduce lobbyists’ power.  Being generally opposed to corporate and special interest influence in government, this interested me, but I didn’t see anything that discussed Senator Clinton’s position on this issue.  Can anyone tell me whether Senator Clinton supported the legislation Obama takes credit for and how her position on lobbyists compares to that of Edwards and Obama?

Also, it now appears to be at least possible that Mrs. Clinton will lose in Iowa.  If she does, what does everything think her strategy should be after that, and where will the next big battlegrounds be?   If Dodd, Biden, Richardson, and Kucinich do not show well in Iowa, do they stay on, or do they make the best deal they can and withdraw?  

(You can see from my questions that I need to catch up.  I hope someone can help me out.)

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 11:12 AM)

Steve, (Texas) (Saturday, December 29, 2007 4:13 PM)

I’m not exactly sure, but I think you may be referring what Governor Huckabee described this morning on Meet the Press as George Bush’s “arrogant bunker mentality,” and the attitude that people are either “with us 100 percent or against us 100 percent.” And now, in the face of tragedy in Pakistan, he has provided no leadership and no answers.  You’re right.  Some of us have been on the fence far too long, while our Constitution has been trampled upon, many lives have been needlessly sacrificed, trillions of dollars have been wasted, and yet we are not measurably safer.  I miss the way things used to be, too.  It’s time for ALL of us to get out of the bunkers, jump down from the fences, use the individual skillsets we have, and do something about it.  Imagine what would happen if we all did that.  That’s my plan, anyway, and I hope it’s yours, too.  It’s trite to say I feel your pain, but  I hope it helps to know that others are committed to the same ideals.  

We haven't met before, but I hope we do again.  It's nice to meet you, sir.  

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 11:48 AM)

I have Keith's new book in my hot little hands.  
Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Saturday, December 29, 2007 3:28 PM)

Lucky you, Krista, my copy won't arrive until after the New Year.  I agree with the idea of reading along with his vocal delivery; it certainly does enhance the experience.  Not only in Plath's case, but also in her fellow poet Anne Sexton's--

Of course it doesn't hurt that, as my tiresome friend and blogger ordinaire Fairweather Lewis once observed, the Big Man has a voice like a cello in a kazoo orchestra (compared to the other guys at MSNBC, that is).  A voice made for sweet nothings, for certain, even if the sweet nothing is "TODAY'S WORST PERSON IN THE WORLD!"

Faire Elinor (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 11:51 AM)

A correction to my earlier post -- According to the MSNBC poll, in Iowa it’s now Edwards 24%, Clinton 23%, and Obama 22%.  I believe the margin of error was something like 4.5%, which obviously makes this a statistical dead heat.  And snow will definitely make some difference, although it's hard for me to see what the difference would be.

Does anyone have an opinion about that?

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 11:57 AM)

Anna Molly Sunday 12/30 11:57AM
Most of the analysis I"ve heard recently favors Edwards in a dead heat because he has a higher percentage of supporters who have previously attended caucuses. I would guess they would also not be deterred by weather. However, since the caucus is so much earlier than usual, I'm not sure weather will be a factor. Obama is probably in the worst position because many of his supporters are young and they have a tendency to commit then not show.

gator,stuart,fl (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 1:32 PM)

Someone posted http://www.fakepaycheckstubs.com as the way to go during these times of subprime meltdowns!!!!  Is this legal....maybe should be talked about and discussed!  At least brought out in the open

dennis rogelinski (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 1:50 PM)

Fortune Cookie (Swan Song Edition) (Hans Christian Andersen) Saturday, December 29, 2007 9:55 AM..And, also apparently, not as many people like that song as I thought. Even liberals. Well, depends on what you think I was trying to say, I suppose.

Fortune, I love that song very much, always have. How anyone can read anything more into it then what John Lennon wrote about is beyond me. He wrote and always spoke of PEACE. That's what he was trying to convey in his song Imagine. There are two more groups of words to this song. Read them, listen to the song, again and again and then tell me if it means anything else except "Imagine" Peace. Thanks Fortune Cookie for posting these words in regards to Benazir Bhutto and 2008.

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 2:36 PM)

Hey par --

I do hope you’re not referring to me when you talk about “tunnel vision” among News Hole bloggers.  In my case, it’s more like Smiley Face Caves vision, facilitated by the kool-aid served at lunch.  (LOL)  But seriously, although as a liberal I may have some natural limitations, I do try to think for myself and not merely regurgitate talking points.  (If I knew what the talking points were, I might, but nobody provides them to me.)  Some of us gather here in the first place because we’re already like-minded folks.  Others gather here for different reasons.  Suum cuique, in my opinion.

I’m sorry you believe that Countdown makes outrageous assertions, but I can’t respond to that unless you give some examples.  Some of us like “diatribes” because nothing else seems to be working right now.  Mr. Olbermann may or may not be the “most honest” newscaster in America, however you might measure that, but at least he tries.  So many others don’t bother.  You do have to agree that Countdown is the most entertaining newscast on air today.  I hope you continue to watch.  I’d love to discuss it with you when we have some concrete examples to consider.

It’s always nice to meet a new voice in the News Hole, whether I happen to agree with them or not.  Fairhope, Alabama -- sounds lovely.  I hope the weather’s fair there, too.  Not much like here, I’m sorry to say.

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 3:03 PM)

I don't need to hear what Keith has to say I already know - it's Bush's fault.  lol..  He's like a broken record, probably why his ratings are so low. scott henderson nv (Sent Thursday, December 27, 2007 3:39 PM

Get some help will ya?  MK, Indianapolis (Sent Saturday, December 29, 2007 8:57 AM)

MK -- What’s the anti-dote for kool-aid?  We should all chip in and ship scott a case of it.  Maybe it’s Tab cola.  Or ice-9.  I keep a supply of both around the house.  We have his address, right?

(Sorry, scott, couldn’t resist; if you won’t fight with me, this is what you get.)

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 3:07 PM)

"Those who Believe in Nothing, will Believe Anything."
via David Molinero (Sent Friday, December 28, 2007 9:11 PM)

"The existence of God, or his non existence, is a statement of faith. It is not something that can be proven or disproven."
              ---Craig Chamberlain

"Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence."              
              ---Carl Sagan

"Everybody should believe in something -- I believe I'll have another drink."
                -- W.C. Fields

J.C. Penny-Savior (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 4:09 PM)

Brett Favre Afternoon in America -- Did you see THAT, Countdown?  Methuselah actually ran for a first down today, threw two touchdown passes, and then wisely sat himself down.  This may have been his last regular season game, you know, although suddenly no one is talking about it.  Hope you talk pretty about him tonight.  He’s never missed a start since he started starting -- 17 years ago.  That alone ought to qualify him for #119, even without all those records.  Don’t you think?  

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 4:14 PM)

Faire Elinor (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 11:51 AM) Abso-darn-lutely! I own tapes of both Plath and Sexton reading their works. Sylvia, especially, gives me the chills every time. And, I loved your "...a voice like a cello in a kazoo orchestra (compared to the other guys at MSNBC, that is)..." comment. Too funny!

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 5:42 PM)

To any New York Giants fans who may be reading this or who blog here, I have just one question for you.

WTF???!!!

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 5:43 PM)


Well, I can't say I enjoyed reading "Truth & Consequences." However, I don't suppose Keith "enjoys" having to make his special comments either; it is evident he is far too angry to be happy.
It was especially hard to read the rising body count as the comments progressed, and it made think about how it has continued to grow to more than 3,900. I also thought about the thousands upon thousands more wounded and the unspeakable number of civilian casualties.

http://icasualties.org/oif/

http://www.iraqbodycount.org/

The background info on each of the comments was great -- especially for those of us who are newbies to the show. Sometimes when we watch the video clips of the comments, we forget the context that prompted them--more of that context would not have been a bad thing. Just saying.

Last but not least, the nexus of terror!! Thank you!!

ek, mpls mn (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 7:08 PM)

gator,stuart,fl (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 1:32 PM)

Thanks, gator.  It looks like a dead heat, for sure.  It’s scary that our political future might come down to the weather or to who feels like showing up, but I suppose that’s true for all elections.  I’m just sad to think that, by the time they get to my state, it’s likely to be over.  

By the way, I really liked your analysis on the Benazir Bhutto assassination.  You say it a little differently, but I think we’re pretty close.  The YouTube tape posted by that guy from Denmark is very illuminating.  Have you seen it?  She was mostly afraid of the extremists thought they had infiltrated the government.  I’ve read they also infiltrated the army.  It was apparently all interconnected. But I just can’t figure out the bin Laden remark.  Bhutto says quite matter-of-factly that someone murdered bin Laden, almost as if she thought everyone knew it.  She seems to link it to some extremist leader who had connections to the government.  Very, very strange.  

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 7:15 PM)

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 2:36 PM)

Thanks for the kind words, and you’re welcome.  That’s what I meant -- imagine peace.  Right now I imagine myself taking a short break to refresh my quotation repertoire and pursue some other growth opportunities.

J.C. Penny-Savior (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 4:09 PM)

Thanks, J.C.  You’re in charge.  Looks like I’m leaving things in capable hands.  

A fortune for you both -- Behold the turtle; he makes progress only when he sticks his neck out.

Hopefully, I’ll see you both in a bit.  

Fortune Cookie (quoting James Bryant Conant) (whoever that is) (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 7:35 PM)

FNiA, Tennessee Titans vs. Indianapolis Colts--severe test of my loyalties here.  The Titans are indisputably the home team, but Peyton Manning is still THE MAN--we've even got baby GIRLS named for him in Podunk Holler, which almost qualifies as an act of worship--

Hopefully I'll figure it out by the end of the game--

Tennessee Hound Dog (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 8:41 PM)

. . .they'd knock one another down and stomp on one another and GRINNNND their feet on one another. . .

And jest's fast as one of 'em 'ud git hurt they'd tote him off and RUN ANOTHER'N ON!

Looks like the end of Haynesworth's season--too bad--

Tennessee Hound Dog (Andy Griffith fan) (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 9:00 PM)

Going with the Titans.  Poor Manning looks like he's been eatin' green persimmons--

Tennessee Hound Dog (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 10:06 PM)

Just a few weeks ago over on the History Channel I saw a special on 1968. When I look at America in 1968 and Pakistan in 2007, I see history repeating itself in a way. A country in a volatile period in its' history, critical elections seemingly hanging by a loose thread, a popular candidate hoping to bring some semblance of balance to the country - only to be murdered in cold blood, and the country tearing itself apart as a result. This description could either fit the United States in 1968 or Pakistan in 2007.

William Senuta, Boynton Beach, Florida (Sent Monday, December 31, 2007 12:09 AM)

12/31 - I'm still siding with Tatiana the tiger.

Full Moon (Sent Monday, December 31, 2007 8:42 AM)

Laura (Dec. 28, 3:24 PM Post):

It always amazes me how animals are given human characterestics by some people, including accountability for their actions, when the animal is involved in an incident with a human being. Although sorry that the young man lost his life to even think of holding the tiger accountable whether taunted or not is ludricrous. It was human beings who took the animal out of their natural environments and caged them in the first place to be gawked at and sometimes taunted. It was human beings who shot and killed this tiger when it obviously was doing the natural thing of defending and protecting itself. In a sense, in a proper natural order of things, who truly are the animals here? Those caught and placed in cages and behind walls or those who have placed them in the cages, not to mention having slaughtered millions  for their pelts, coats, tongues, fins, blubber oil,   etc, and some to the point of extinction. Some thing or some one gave the human being intelligence above that of others in the animal kingdom so that we as humans would be the caretakers of the same. We have done a very poor job of it. This incident with the tiger is a reminder of our failure in this regard.

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Monday, December 31, 2007 9:02 AM)

Cris Collingsworth: We all thought you did a terrific job on the game Saturday night.

Great game Tom and Eli.

On to the playoffs. Should be fun.

Pat, Boston, MA (Sent Monday, December 31, 2007 9:38 AM)

"Failure is success if we learn from it."

Penny Saver (Sent Monday, December 31, 2007 11:52 AM)

"Ameria is a tune. It myst be sung together"

Penny Saver (Sent Monday, December 31, 2007 11:52 AM)

"Sleep is a symptom of caffeine deprivation."

Penny Saver (Sent Monday, December 31, 2007 11:53 AM)

"3 YEAR OLD laying hens. 2*7-3**6."

He's a precocious lad, but needs guidance.

Penny Saver (Sent Monday, December 31, 2007 11:55 AM)

Steve Turner (Thursday, December 27, 2007 10:53 PM) --

An interesting outlook on life, to be sure.  Dangerous or not, if I had to choose between a person of good will and a “cruel army,” I would stand side-by-side with the person of good will every single time.  To me it seems a pretty easy moral choice.  I see even Larry from Charleston (or Larry Charleston, or whatever) can figure out that much.  How about you?  

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Monday, December 31, 2007 12:01 PM)

I have a feeling Junebug will be on the run for a while:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,319062,00.html

True Liberal (Sent Monday, December 31, 2007 1:45 PM)

Krista (12/30/07 post) WTF???!!!  I'm not sure I have an answer for you. I mean it was a great game. The G-men gave it their best shot but it wasn't enough. That was the best game my beloved Giants played all year. In order to beat New England the Giants had to play a perfect game. They only played a near-perfect game. I hope that the Jints are as well prepared and as ready to play against Tampa on Sunday.  

Bill Rochester NY (Sent Monday, December 31, 2007 1:53 PM)

dennis rogelinski (Sent Sunday, December 30, 2007 1:50 PM)

You’re right, sir.  This is something that definitely should be brought out into the open.  And thanks for bringing it to my attention. It doesn’t look like the way to solve anybody’s problems.  More like a snake oil peddler straight out of an old western movie.  What’s particularly laughable here is that, after they sell it to you by saying it can solve all your problems, they also give what looks like a legal disclaimer --

“fakepaycheckstubs.com is not responsible for any misuse associated with this program once buyer has filled it out with the information they choose to use - this computer program is intended to create novelty paycheck stubs for entertainment, and amusement purposes only!!”

Very amusing.  Like a party game.  Really.  Definitely something that needs to be discussed in the open.  Maybe some of our resident lawyers could comment on it.

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Monday, December 31, 2007 3:33 PM)

Nuovo Anno Felice to all.  It is just over 1.5 hours until the new year here across the pond in bella Italia.  I wish that for all us, no matter where we are or what we believe, is that we find peace in our New Year!  Ciao e buona notte

Jamie, Lago Patria, Italia (Sent Monday, December 31, 2007 4:24 PM)

Okay, I vowed I would not blog on New Year’s Eve, but I just saw that Romney is running an ad that says this about Huckabee -- “his foreign policy is ludicrous, says Condoleezza Rice.”  Let’s see … that’s Mitt Romney (a guy with absolutely no foreign policy experience of his own) … relying on possibly the worst secretary of state ever (who also appears to have no foreign policy experience) … to criticize the foreign policy of Mike Huckabee (another guy with absolutely no foreign policy experience).  

What’s zero + zero + zero?  Answer -- campaign contributions definitely not well spent.

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Monday, December 31, 2007 6:42 PM)

Hey gang. I really wasn't expecting to be blogging today; BTW, Happy New Year to you all! But, I received something in an email today that really got my proverbial goat, so I thought, "Why not share it with y'all?" I get a monthly email from a certain national bookstore chain that rhymes with "orders." There was a blurb about Keith's new book. Yippee! However, this certain national bookstore chain had Keith labelled as "left", and Coultergeist was labelled as "right." Since when is holding our government's feet to the fire to honor their oaths to "protect and defend the Constitution" a "left" thing?! And, before any neocons start claiming that Keith wouldn't be saying anything if there was a Democratic president and Republican Congress, yes, he would. And, yes, anyone who REALLY cares about our country would be shouting from the rooftops. Can you imagine what we'd be hearing from Coultergeist, Sean Hannity, etc. if a Democratic president were doing the things that GWB and his administration have done? Caring about our Constitution should not a "left" or "right" commodity; it's called being an American!

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Tuesday, January 01, 2008 12:48 PM)

Bill Rochester NY (Sent Monday, December 31, 2007 1:53 PM) Dude, the Giants had 'em! I didn't get to see the whole game; my hubby's birthday was also Saturday, so we ran around a lot and weren't around a TV. Not to sound too harsh, but Eli's gotta learn how to take a hit. Pat in Boston, I'm happy that you're happy, but I'm not really a Colts fan, and the Patriots leave a bit of a sour taste in my mouth. As for my husband, who is the semi-rabid Colts fan in the household, uhh...you really REALLY don't want to get him started on the Patriots. His usual calm and even-keeled nature goes right out the window.

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Tuesday, January 01, 2008 2:54 PM)

PREACH IT SISTER KRISTA!  Unfortunately that's what has happened to our beloved country, and frankly I don't know whether to blame the late Rev. Falwell and co., the current administration and their shrill insistence "we're the only ones who know what is RIGHT, and anybody who disagrees with us is a pinko," or just life in general.

However, in our local library, Ann Coulter is shelved where she ought to be:  in True Crime, between Patricia Cornwell's non-fiction and John Douglas.  I wish I could say it's because our library staff has a sense of humor, but it's mostly a matter of limited shelf space (our local rightwing governnment in action over lo these many years) and being Dewey Decimal challenged.

Needless to say, I will not be donating MY copy of the Big Man's book to our local.  Two reasons:  I haven't finished reading it yet, and the library board would probably throw it back in my face because nobody but a pinko would be reading it to begin with.

And now I'm slinking back to the woods.

Immortal Cougar (Sent Tuesday, January 01, 2008 3:02 PM)

Jamie, Lago Patria, Italia (Sent Monday, December 31, 2007 4:24 PM) Right back at you!

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Monday, December 31, 2007 6:42 PM) Spot on, my dear! There are no winners in a game of loosers. And, also remember that they all have the same foreign policy experience that the current occupant of 1600 Pennsylvania Ave. had going into the job. Do you think we've learned anything since then?

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Tuesday, January 01, 2008 3:08 PM)

Just a few weeks ago over on the History Channel I saw a special on 1968. When I look at America in 1968 and Pakistan in 2007, I see history repeating itself in a way. A country in a volatile period in its' history, critical elections seemingly hanging by a loose thread, a popular candidate hoping to bring some semblance of balance to the country - only to be murdered in cold blood, and the country tearing itself apart as a result. This description could either fit the United States in 1968 or Pakistan in 2007.
William Senuta, Boynton Beach, Florida (Sent Monday, December 31, 2007 12:09 AM)

Sometimes it seems that history is like fashions in clothing--it repeats itself every few decades, in different geographical areas.  Guess it says more about human nature than about ethnicity, geography, or political entanglements.  Thank you for your thoughtful post, William.

Faire Elinor (Sent Tuesday, January 01, 2008 3:32 PM)

Have a good vacation, Biscotta, but don't get stale.

A. Grippe-sou (Sent Tuesday, January 01, 2008 5:11 PM)

C A Monday December 31, 2007 9:02 AM..well said C A.
What hurts is that one more beautiful Bengel tiger is gone because of us humans. As Full Moon posted on Monday December 31, 2007 8:42 AM.."12/31 I'm still siding with Tatiana the tiger"...On January 1, 2008 I'm still siding with her too. I guess I always will.

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Tuesday, January 01, 2008 5:50 PM)

I called Tatiana a Bengal tiger, she was a Siberian tiger..there is a difference, sorry.

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Tuesday, January 01, 2008 5:52 PM)

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Monday December 31 9:02 AM) --

By now, others will have said similar things, but that won’t stop me from adding my own voice to this mix.  I have seldom, if ever, heard this issue summed up more eloquently.  To apply human behavior standards to animals is, of course, ludicrous, especially when we don’t always apply them to ourselves.  Killing a magnificent animal because we forced the animal to do no more than what the animal’s instinct tells it to do exhibits a lack of basic understanding that is appalling.  Thus, the only thing I take issue with in your post is whether we have been endowed with “intelligence above that of others in the animal kingdom.”  All except the very highest orders of animals kill only to eat.  We kill for many other reasons, as you so rightly state, including pleasure.  And even if we could be considered superior in “intelligence,” then it is fair to say many of us are lacking in another quality necessary for us to declare ourselves superior to animals ... i.e., humanity.  And we could certainly find many other examples of that.  As Fortune Cookie has said, you can judge the character of a man (or woman) by his (or her) treatment of animals.  For sure.

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Tuesday, January 01, 2008 6:33 PM)

Keith, Now that the federal debt is over 9 trillion dollars,Well lets just say well over the 9 trilloin mark could you caution congress that they must raise the countries debt limit again.Also nice to find out on cspan that the bush's have been cooking the books on the G.D.P numbers.aint it great to be ameican.O and thanks Bush BootLickers history in the making.Well Bye  

JOHN DOE (Sent Tuesday, January 01, 2008 6:48 PM)

BENAZIR WAS THROWN OUT OF OFFICE FOR BEING CORRUPT. TO BAD AMERICANS CAN'T PULL TOGETHER AND RID THIS GOVERNMENT OF CORRUPTION.YEA BUSH AND RICE LIKE BENAZIR BECAUSE BIRDS OF A FEATHER FLOCK TOGEATHER

LOU K (Sent Tuesday, January 01, 2008 6:58 PM)

At the risk of revealing the depths of my dull-as-dishwater liberal existence, we were sitting around on New Year’s Eve trying to decide what to watch on television, and I was favoring either Who Framed Roger Rabbit? or The History of Sex (on the History Channel).  But, sad to say, I lost the coin toss, and we spent the evening flipping back and forth between the Chick-fil-A Bowl and The Best of This is Sports Center on ESPN.  I figured I was doomed, so I took out my new copy of Cold Comfort Farm, but I’m afraid I didn’t get very far because that Sports Center thing was actually pretty funny.  Who knew we would see so much of Countdown’s early years at ESPN?  I won’t belabor it, but I did want to say one thing about it, and I’m sure Countdown will know what I’m talking about and not take offense –

Your foundations look great lately ... but you could use a little more rouge.  

And by the way, lose the pink shirt.  Go with the blue shirt you wore for the special comments special.  IC says they're blue, so it must be true.

Happy New Year, Countdown.

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Tuesday, January 01, 2008 7:23 PM)

At the risk of revealing the depths of my dull-as-dishwater liberal existence, we were sitting around on New Year’s Eve trying to decide what to watch on television, and I was favoring either Who Framed Roger Rabbit? or The History of Sex (on the History Channel).  But, sad to say, I lost the coin toss, and we spent the evening flipping back and forth between the Chick-fil-A Bowl and The Best of This is Sports Center on ESPN.  I figured I was doomed, so I took out my new copy of Cold Comfort Farm, but I’m afraid I didn’t get very far because that Sports Center thing was actually pretty funny.  Who knew we would see so much of Countdown’s early years at ESPN?  I won’t belabor it, but I did want to say one thing about it, and I’m sure Countdown will know what I’m talking about and not take offense –

Your foundations look great lately ... but you could use a little more rouge.  

And by the way, lose the pink shirt.  Go with the blue shirt you wore for the special comments special.  IC says they're blue, so it must be true.

Happy New Year, Countdown.

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Tuesday, January 01, 2008 7:25 PM)

Gov. Mitt "Flip-Flopper" Romney flips again. Wasn't he supporting GWB's Iraq efforts just last week? Maybe he'll flop again after Iowa and New Hampshire. Check this out, and let the games officially begin!

http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080101/pl_nm/usa_politics_romney_dc

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Tuesday, January 01, 2008 7:30 PM)

OK, I have a quickie female chaeuvinist pig comment. I promise it will be quick because I know this discussion has driven some who blog here batty. Because I have Keith's new book, I can make this comment with 99% certainty. Keith's eyes are blue.

The end.

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Tuesday, January 01, 2008 7:52 PM)

Full Moon,

"I'm still siding with Tatiana the Tiger".

Sure, I understand, I love cats too, all of 'em, big or small.

But how did Tatiana know she was being taunted?  That's an extraordinarily intelligent cat, if it understands taunts from humans.  I wonder what the taunts were: "Stupid Tiger", or "Ugly Tiger", etc. More to the point, the San Francisco Zoo will, and should, be held accountable for the maulings and death. There is just no excuse.  

Pud Laguna Niguel CA (Sent Tuesday, January 01, 2008 11:03 PM)

Huffington Post Tuesday

Happy New Year?! by Richard Belzer
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/richard-belzer/happy-new-year_b_79013.html

The Year of The Dreamer by Robbie Baitz
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/robbie-baitz/the-year-of-the-dreamer_b_78954.html

The Many Cheeks of Mike Huckabee by Jane Hamsher
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/jane-hamsher/the-many-cheeks-of-mike-h_b_78982.html

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Tuesday, January 01, 2008 11:11 PM)

Old Puter (That's short for Computer in Chat) died a slow death of extreme old age. (5yrs)

Rebuilding puter and still work in progress.

In need of adaptors for my IDE Hard Drives to plug into SATA Ports.

Right now, I can only run 1 of my 3 HDD's and DVD Burner on my puter. How will I get by with-out my other 2 Hard Drives? 520Gig just sitting around doing Nut'n when I'm using this one.

I have to switch from one OS to anut'er to get things done by Swapping Hard Drives!!! Just not fair for a hard working man like me.

At lest my new puter with a Dual Core 64bit Processor and 8Gig of memory will be a Very Sweet Machine when I get it done building it. I may just run out and buy a new game to try out the 512mg Grafics Card.

David Molinero (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:23 AM)

MESSAGE FOR KEITH AND COUNTOWN PRODUCTION CREW.
Not trying to get off the main topic here, but I couldn't find a more direct e-mail.

Mr. Olbermann,
I, as a U.S. citizen, want to express my concern and outrage at the general mass media for its intended neglect of coverage of two potentially very important candidates for the 2008 Presidential Election. I have not personally decided who I will be supporting mainly due to the blatent lack of ("mass") media attention specifically with respect to Dennis Kucinich and Ron Paul. And the latest news to me, which I wish to request as one of your next 5 stories, is that Fixed Noise is denying Congrassman Paul an invitation to the next Republican debates. I'm not trying to influence anyone here or give any specific candidate an upperhand. I just feel, and I don't think I'm alone here, that a little equality (which I believe is supposed to be an American value) is called for, especially when what's on the line is such an important decision as picking our nation's first leader since Jan. 2001.
Thank you so much for staying strong for us and for demonstrating the innate right to not give in to fear or demoralization,
Dan

(I wouldn't mind some more accentuated IMPEACHMENT news either, but I've been saying that for not quite 8 years with little-to-no satisfaction.)

Dan O'Connor, Selinsgrove, PA (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:22 AM)

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Tuesday, January 01, 2008 12:48 PM)

Keith is not left-leaning?  He may be the most liberal "newscaster" on television.  That is why he consistently has guests on from the Huffington Post.  Sorry Krista, but Keith is left, and there is no dispute of that.

Kevin of NJ (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 5:19 AM)

1/2/2008 - Still siding with Tatiana the tiger.

Apparently the three young men were drunk and  shooting at her with a slingshot. She was in her pen
for 3 years and NEVER got out, even though the wall was supposedly 4 feet shorter than the mandate, although zoo inspectors gave it a passing grade when it was inspected. The zoo will be sued for millions even though the men brought the whole situation on themselves. 11th commandment. Thou shalt not taunt.
You never really know what may happen.

Everyone is guilty of this. It's human nature. You see a man, woman or child taunting a dog and you think to yourself "I hope that damn dog jumps up and bites you, it'll serve you right."

That's how I feel about this whole tiger situation.
And I feel these three young men intentionally went to the SF ZOO to taunt animals. not just Tatiana.

You should hold a vigil for the tiger.

FULL MOON (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:14 AM)

Anna Molly (6:42 PM Post):

Mitt Romney has been proving himself to be completely out of touch with the people and the issues at hand during this campaign. There is a certain incompetence present that reminds me of someone else. Therefore, it would not surprise me at all if he were chosen by the right as the Republican nominee. One only hopes that the rest of the American people do not make the same mistake as in the last two elections and follow the lead of those on the right. We have had enough incompetence in the Whitehouse for far too long.        

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:27 AM)

"Imagine there's no heaven ... no hell below us ... and no religion too." - John Lennon (Imagine) "you may say that I'm dreamimg."

Yeah John, you're dreaming. It's a great song but the words are controversial too many of us. It's wreaks of living in a commune. You want us all to be the same, living as one. No hope or faith. Just lying around on our backs having women feed us grapes. That didn't work in the Roman Empire and it doesn't work now. Also, as long as there's more than one person in the world, there will always be conflict. Everyone argues with someone for some good or no good reason. Everything is money, sex and power John. Yoko's influence on you was puppet-like.
You copied Dylan with "Strawberry Fields" and "I Am The Walrus," among others. That's okay but when you and Yoko brought that bed into the Apple recording studio, it was a bit much for Paul, George and Ringo.
So Paul got real fed up and released "McCartney," and that was the end of the Beatles.

FULL MOON (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:37 AM)

Bill/Rochester: For whatever it's worth to you, your team played a great game last weekend. The analysts up here can't say enough good things about Tom Coughlin and the Giants. They are all picking the Giants to beat Tampa Bay this weekend.

Just like every other team in the NFL, the Patriots are indeed beatable, but the pressure is huge up here; ever since they became a 9-0 team, every week has been like the Super Bowl. As hard as they have worked this season, if they lose, they are going to be considered a joke if they lose in the playoffs. I've never seen anything like it.  So unless you have a team who can take the heat, I don't recommend an undefeated regular season for any team who has already won 3 Super Bowls recently. But that's the way it's supposed to be. Too much of a good thing is a bad thing.

But it looks like Brady, Moss & Belichick & Co. are up for the challenge. We'll see.

Best of luck to the New York Giants.

Pat, Boston, MA (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 10:10 AM)

Senator Edwards has re-opened the debate on troop withdrawal, proposing to remove virtually all American troops from Iraq within 10 months after he is elected --

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/02/us/politics/02edwards.html?hp=&adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1199282494-jYENP6qWMCkZiybvUjgaGA

Rather than write this proposal off as campaign rhetoric, we should debate it seriously.  The Iraqi government has, in fact, failed to stabilize itself over the past four years.  If you follow this issue, then you’re already aware of the ongoing failure of the Iraqi government to address the huge refugee (and attendant security) problem, as well as the inability of Iraqi security forces to provide long-term stability.   Another example --

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/02/world/middleeast/02iraq.html?ref=world

Even if you still think the war was a good idea, there may be only so much we can do.  Essentially, Senator Edwards asks the same question I have asked here frequently -- How many more American lives are we willing to spend, and how much good money we are planning to throw away after the bad?

Senator Edwards voted in favor of authorizing the war, and has since changed his mind. So what?  Many people have changed their minds about the war, and thank heaven for that.  Senator Edwards’ candor is far better than the stubbornness of President Bush, who, having driven the bus through the warning barrier, refused to admit he was going in the wrong direction, and then continued to drive us over the precipice -- sacrificing way too many lions for lambs.  

Republican candidates, in particular, and even some democratic candidates, now appear to be following the same disastrous course.  Give me Senator Edwards any day against more of the same-old way of thinking.  Let’s talk seriously about troop withdrawal during this campaign.  This war was a mistake.  Just how many more lives we going to throw away so politicians don’t have to admit they were wrong?

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 10:18 AM)

In light of what’s happened in Russia, and now in Pakistan, is it time to start talking about Kenya?

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/02/world/africa/02kenya.html?th&emc=th

“Dozens of people seeking refuge in a church in Kenya were burned to death by a mob on Tuesday in an explosion of ethnic violence that is threatening to engulf this country, which until last week was one of the most stable in Africa ….  In Nairobi, the capital, tribal militias squared off against each other in several slums, with gunshots ringing out and clouds of black smoke wafting over the shanties. The death toll across the country is steadily rising. Witnesses indicate that more than 250 people have been killed in the past two days in bloodshed connected to a disputed election Kenya held last week.  The European Union said Tuesday that there was clear evidence of ballot rigging, and European officials called for an independent investigation.  Mwai Kibaki, Kenya’s president, who won the election by a razor-thin margin, has refused such an inquiry.”

It seems like free elections are in peril almost everywhere you look these days.  Gives you renewed confidence in our own elections, doesn’t it?  

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 11:11 AM)

Okay, so it's January 2, we're roughly halfway through the coverage of the day before the day of the Iowa caucuses, I've watched in fascination mixed with horror as Huckleberry and Joe Scarborough light up a stage making music--about which I might have more to say if Shuster hadn't talked over the whole clip, making it inaudible--

And then I come over here, to see what everybody's saying, what everybody's excited about--and find we still have the week-old photo of a beautiful, smiling, living Bhutto up, and the same 156 comments that were up last night--comments that have trickled their way to post in tiny increments over the past week, every two or three days--

Am I being unduly harsh on everybody at COUNTDOWN, including the Big Man, or do I get the impression that over the holidays everybody there just quit trying?

Faire Elinor (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 11:16 AM)

I think I posted something about this earlier, but just in case I didn’t, here’s another article about the rigged elections, and ensuing violence, in Kenya, which was one of Africa’s most stable countries (until last week) --

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-Kenya-Elections.html?ref=world

“The Bush administration expressed dismay over the turmoil, which erupted over allegations that the government stole the election.”
Ooooh, don’t you just love it when the Bush administration expresses “dismay” over a stolen election?  I feel better already, knowing we’re on the case.  Time to send in Condoleezza Rice.  I’m sure she’ll take care of it.  Like Russia.  Or maybe Pakistan.  

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 11:53 AM)

I see President Musharraf has called on Scotland Yard to investigate the Benazir Bhutto assassination --

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/03/world/asia/03pakistan.html?hp

Apparently, the FBI and the CIA weren’t good enough.  Those Scotland Yard folks must have a lot of experience dealing with Talibani warlords, corrupt Pakistani soldiers, Al Qaeda insurgents, and whoever this really scary guy is that Benazir Bhutto suggested killed bin Laden.  Well, now I can rest, knowing they’ll get to the bottom of it.  If they don’t get shot or hauled off to meet the Witch King.

But if Scotland Yard doesn’t solve it (and I’m not holding my breath), at least it gives us an opportunity to discuss our favorite Scotland Yard characters -- like Sherlock Holmes, Adam Dalgliesh, Inspector Thomas Lynley, Richard Jury, and Jane Tennison.  And I suppose we have to give an honorary nod to Miss Marple, and maybe Hercule Poirot as well.  Murder on the Orient Express, for sure.  

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:25 PM)

I think I posted something about this earlier, but just in case I didn’t, here’s another article about the rigged elections, and ensuing violence, in Kenya, which was one of Africa’s most stable countries (until last week) --

http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/world/AP-Kenya-Elections.html?ref=world

“The Bush administration expressed dismay over the turmoil, which erupted over allegations that the government stole the election.”

Ooooh, don’t you just love it when the Bush administration expresses “dismay” over a stolen election?  I feel better already, knowing we’re on the case.  Time to send in Condoleezza Rice.  I’m sure she’ll take care of it.  Like Russia.  Or maybe Pakistan.  

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:27 PM)

The whole MSNBC family (including KO) should be ashamed of themselves.  Real news is happening and there has been no new strings or shows in over a week here at Countdown.  Yes it's been the Holidays but holidays do not stop important news from happening.  And are you going to tell me the network newsmen are not as important as you are?  They at least are giving the news in real time not a week late.

Wake up gang it's not a holiday anymore.

Aunt Ornery (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:44 PM)

Oil just hit $100 a barrel.  And seven years of careful energy policy management by the Bush administration has produced what?  Kept it from hitting $200 a barrel?  Please.  Paging everybody at the bottom of the economic ladder … the sky is falling … on top of the subprime mortgage crisis, $4.00 per gallon gas is on its way.

The scary part is that there are now so many factors influencing oil prices -- failure to develop reasonable alternative sources of energy, supply problems in Mexico, gouging by Venezuela, violence in Nigeria, demand in China, instability in the Middle East … you name it.  After seven years, we have failed to address any of the factors with any tangible success.  I wonder why.  Short-term thinking and profit, perhaps?

What are the candidates’ positions on the energy crisis?  Anybody know?

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:48 PM)

Immortal Cougar (Sent Tuesday, January 01, 2008 3:02 PM) "PREACH IT SISTER KRISTA!  Unfortunately that's what has happened to our beloved country, and frankly I don't know whether to blame the late Rev. Falwell and co., the current administration and their shrill insistence "we're the only ones who know what is RIGHT, and anybody who disagrees with us is a pinko," or just life in general." Fudge - forgot to mention this earlier. A part of me hates to plug someone else's book on the blog for COUNTDOWN, but I think I've throughly demonstrated my support and kudos for Keith's recent book to partially justify this recommendation. I've finally been able to purchase and begin reading Ronald Brownstein's SECOND CIVIL WAR. I forget the rest of the title, but it's basically along the lines of how extreme partisanship has affected our government and polarized it and our nation. I can already say just shy of 75 pages into the thing that this book should be required reading for anyone of any political stripe who REALLY cares about our country. Brownstein's book looks at history, political trends, etc. and does not single out either "the left" or "the right." There's plenty of blame for everyone.

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 1:27 PM)

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Tuesday, January 01, 2008 3:08 PM)

Not a thing, Krista, not a thing.  The republican who can claim substantial foreign policy experience (McCain) is going nowhere.

By the way, thanks for your comments on my Al Qaeda post(s).  I agree with you on Musharraf, but interestingly, I’ve heard that extremists have infiltrated the army, which is maybe why he didn’t want to give up control.  Maybe he’s afraid of the army, too.  Picture either Romney or Huckabee dealing with these guys.  I think it was Romney who said this weekend he doesn’t need foreign policy experience because they’ve got people at the State Department who can deal with that.  I hope he doesn’t mean to say that he’s keeping Condoleezza Rice on.  Can you imagine it?

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 1:32 PM)

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Tuesday, January 01, 2008 7:23 PM) You lost out on the history of sex?! Too bad for you. ;) "Your foundations look great lately ... but you could use a little more rouge." Thank you so much for the chuckle! I actually found a hardback copy of Dan and Keith's book about THE BIG SHOW at Indianapolis' version of a used bookstore this past weekend; I've read it before but grabbed it all the same. I didn't have access to "normal" cable back in 1997, so I never got to see "the boys live and in person."

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 1:34 PM)

Anna Molly (6:33 PM Post):

I agree. It often seems by our actions and behaviors that the human species is in fact a form of disease or plaque on what was once a beautiful, virgin planet. It is why we are often compared to a swarm of locust that destroy everything in our path. As a youngster I was pleased to see that the Swiss Family Robinson (when given the opportunity) decided to stay on their island rather than being rescued and returned to what is incorrectly called "civilization". If given the chance I would have stayed with them. Well, they would have had to recruit at least one or two more female inhabitants mind you.      

Anna Molly (10:18 AM Post):

I am holding judgement on John Edwards regarding his decree to remove all US troops from Iraq within 10 months. On one hand I would totally agree with the concept. On the other hand I wonder how it is possible to make such a pledge using this time frame before taking office, before conferring with military strategists and before having access to any and all information regarding Iraq. Unless his intent is to order withdrawal regardless of any other variables. There is also the fact that some major decision making conditions may change or come into play before a new President takes office. Perhaps Edwards would be more believable if he were to pledge an immediate study of those reasonable options available to him as President with the intent of getting our troops out of Iraq as quickly as possible. I like the pledge of removing our troops but would think that Edwards was bright enough to know that a 10 month pull-out promise may not be totally viable. If he were to follow through but it took 15 months rather then 10 then his 10 month pledge would come back to haunt him. So, it does sound a bit like political rhetoric to me.

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 1:53 PM)

No, you're not back.  You've been on extended holiday for over a week.  Cripes - even CNN was on live most of the time.  If MSNBC wants to be even considered to be taken seriously, you need to be on LIVE.  News doesn't happen Monday thru Friday during banker's hours.  Considering everything that BushCo and his criminal band get up to when no one's looking, news should be live 24/7.

The reason I'm posting is that I just read that Rep. Tom Lantos (D-Ca) is retiring due to esophageal cancer.  Chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee he has been a champion of human rights.  He is the only Holocaust survivor ever elected to Congress.  It's a serious loss.

Sue, West Allis, Wisconsin (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 1:57 PM)

Kevin of NJ (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 5:19 AM) Happy New Year, Kevin, and I hope you and your family have a healthy and safe 2008. Either one of 2 things have happened. You either didn't get the email from "orders" that I received, or you misunderstood my email. Holding our government's feet to the fire NO MATTER WHICH PARTY IS IN CHARGE as far as actually "protecting and defending our Constitution" (you know, actually upholding their oath) is not a "left" or "right" issue. This issue is an AMERICAN issue. You and I and Keith and anyone else who has genuine concern about the future of our country (as opposed to concern about who's right or wrong) don't give a tinker's damn about whether there is a Republican or Democratic or Independent or yellow-polka-dotted administration. Was Edward R. Murrow "left" for tackling Senator McCarthy? Was Senator Barry Goldwater "left" for going to President Nixon basically telling him to give up the ghost because impeachment was coming around the bend because of his disregard for the Constitution and the rule of law? Is Senator McCain "left" for saying that our government should not torture and actually trying to put those thoughts into meaningful legislation? Sorry if I'm sounding a little harsh, but I'm getting sick and tired of all this "left" VS. "right" crap.

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:00 PM)

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 10:18 AM) At this very hour in downtown Indianapolis, a "send off" ceremony is taking place at the RCA Dome where the Colts play. Three thousand four hundred Indiana National Guard troops are heading for Iraq today. Once again, just to clarify, that number is 3400. I was somewhere over my lunch hour where I could watch part of the noon news, and you could not see the floor of "the Dome" with all the chairs for the guardsmen. And, each one of those guardsmen probably has a parent, spouse, significant other, child, and/or friends. I wonder how many of those 3400 will still be with us come November.

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:08 PM)

But if Scotland Yard doesn’t solve it (and I’m not holding my breath), at least it gives us an opportunity to discuss our favorite Scotland Yard characters -- like Sherlock Holmes, Adam Dalgliesh, Inspector Thomas Lynley, Richard Jury, and Jane Tennison.  And I suppose we have to give an honorary nod to Miss Marple, and maybe Hercule Poirot as well.  Murder on the Orient Express, for sure.  

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:25 PM)

M'dear, you mustn't forget--I have a brother-in-law who works for Scotland Yard and lets me meddle in their business too--nobody really suspects anything intelligent out of somebody who looks like his name ought to be Algy--

Lord Peter Wimsey (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:13 PM)

Here's some real bright comments from the world of beyond:

"If we don't succeed we run the risk of failure." -
Bill Clinton

"We are ready for an unforeseen event that may or may not occur." - Al Gore

"I love California. I practically grew up in Phoenix." - Dan Quayle

"It isn't pollution that's harming the environment. It's the impurities in our air and water that are doing it." - Al Gore

"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country." - Mayor Marion Barry, Washington, D.C.

Full Moon (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:25 PM)

A man very much worth mentioning, Keith:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080102/ap_po/lantos_retire

diablo,chicago,il (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:43 PM)

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 1:32 PM) Howdy-doo, I've read in a couple of newsy locales that McCain is gaining ground in the "Live Free or Die" state. But, there's an awful lot of time between now and next week for the political winds to change. And, the extremist Musharraf is afraid of AlQaida extremists? That's ironic in a sick sense. "I don't like your brand of extremism; my brand is much better." Kind of makes you wanna wretch, doesn't it? Extreme extremists everywhere and not a one to (*&^@?! And, finally, Romney or Huckabee or Condi going up against those fine folks? Strict evolutionary theory would say that the "higher form of mammal" would prevail. You know, survival of the fittest and all that lot. Who or what would be the "higher form of mammal" in THAT group?

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:44 PM)

Pud Laguna Niguel CA Tuesday, January 1, 2008 11:03 PM..animals can tell by the tone of your voice if they are being taunted. They can tell by your tone if you are being nice to them and also if you are mocking them. Shouting at them, which is taunting them, gets them in a bad mood, cats big and small react to this. These are very intelligent creatures. These jerks were obvious doing alot of shouting and not being nice. One paid the price. So did Tatiana for defending herself.

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:51 PM)

To Full Moon and the Tatiana Supporters, et al.  I agree with you 100%.  To be certain, the death of the young man is a tragedy to his family and the timing couldn't possibly have been worse.  However, I personally, will lift my Candle in the Wind to the beautiful Tatiana, whose only crime was to be what she was.  

Some years ago, an idiot (okay - wait that's a little harsh) a misguided person climbed over the wall, across the moat, over a fence and into the Wolf Enclosure at the Brookfield Zoo in Chicago.  The alpha wolf grabbed the woman by the arm.  (Smart wolf).  The wolf was subsequently shot and killed by park security.  There were at least three op-ed pieces in the Chicago Tribune over the next few days, suggesting that the police should have shot the human intruder instead.  

And does anyone remember that in the weeks prior to 9/11, the BIG news stories were the numbers of surfers getting attacked by sharks off the southeast coast?  I don't know about anyone else, but frankly, I was rooting for the sharks.  If you're too arrogant to realize that, yes, it CAN happen to you - you CAN get eaten if you insist on going into shark infested waters - I don't want you in the gene pool.  You're a drain on the species.  

Having said that, Happy New Year all!  

Chris F, Just O'er the border in Williconsinois (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 3:11 PM)

FULL MOON (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:37 AM)

My intentions in offering the John Lennon lyrics were merely to honor Benazir Bhutto, who hoped for peace, but was cruelly disappointed.  I certainly identify positively with a person who has such strong feelings for animals, and I’m sorry if the lyrics bothered you.  Being a ninny, myself, I never imagined there would be such strong negative reaction.

Fortune Cookie (hard smack upside the head edition) (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 3:15 PM)

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:00 PM)

Growl.  Tatiania has nothing on you!!! LOL Happy New Year to you.  I personally don't care about left or right, as you stated.  But Keitho has practically admitted that he is a liberal, and would like to steer MSNBC evening broadcast in that direction.  Sorry, but Keitho is a biased "newscaster", as most of his rants, tirades, wraths are at republicans (probably 98% of the time).  

BTW, I see Joe Biden is calling Hillary out on her Pakistan "experience".  I guess she didn't really get all that foreign policy experience as "co-president" in the 90s.  On the democratic side, Joe Biden is about the only one that makes any sense.  

Kevin of NJ (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 3:18 PM)

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 12:25 PM) M'dear, you mustn't forget--I have a brother-in-law who works for Scotland Yard and lets me meddle in their business too--nobody really suspects anything intelligent out of somebody who looks like his name ought to be Algy-- Lord Peter Wimsey (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:13 PM)

My dear Lord Peter, sir, how could I possibly forget you?  It would take Strong Poison, a very Gaudy Night, a Busman’s Honeymoon, or maybe a few red herrings to put you out of my head.  With you on the case, Scotland Yard cannot help but succeed.  We should have thought of this before, like when we were looking for those WMDs.

Harriet Vane (aka Anna Molly) (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 3:28 PM)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20080102/us_nm/security_cia_dc

Here's one that's been out of the news a couple of weeks, thanks to holidays and assassinations and the like: The Justice Department has announced that it has launched a criminal investigation into the destruction of the CIA interrogation tapes.

"There is a basis for initiating a criminal investigation of this matter, and I have taken steps to begin that investigation," Attorney General Michael Mukasey said in a statement issued by the department.

HMMM! Mukasey also announced the probe will be led by Connecticut federal prosecutor John Durham.

Afraid I'm skeptical. No doubt somebody will scream "national security concerns" which has become a euphemism for "covering somebody's a**" and we'll end up none the wiser--but it's INN-teresting.

greenbrier (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 3:32 PM)

Have a good vacation, Biscotta, but don't get stale.  A. Grippe-sou (Sent Tuesday, January 01, 2008 5:11 PM)

I think you can pretty much bank on that.  I’m saving up for a rainy day.

Fortune Cookie (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 3:43 PM)

Kevin of NJ (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 3:18 PM) Being a cat lover of all shapes and sizes, I will take your comparison of me to Tatiana as a compliment. :) If you can tell me where Keith has said that he "has practically admitted that he is a liberal, and would like to steer MSNBC evening broadcast in that direction," I will gladly check it out. If you can give me similar proof that Fixed News...oops...sorry...FOX Noise...oops...sorry...force of habit is honestly-and-for-true "fair and balanced," I will read that with gusto as well.

As far as Senator Clinton's "foreign policy experience," whatever. I've made my feelings about her pretty clear in this forum. Unfortunately, in today's political climate on both sides of the fence, TRUE knowledge and TRUE experience do not seem to matter. It's whoever is the smoother operator and the darling of the main-stream media who gets all the "glory." I hold nearly every media outlet that I get my news from, including COUNTDOWN, responsible for this facet of American political life. Once again, these days, I'm a big cheerleader for Ron Brownstein's book SECOND CIVIL WAR. I'm enjoying it immensely and learning a lot; I think you'd appreciate it, too.

Here's to all of us in the "frozen tundra" parts of our great nation not freezing our ninnies off over the next few days.

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 3:53 PM)

diablo,chicago,il (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:43 PM)

Thank you for this link.  I find this very sad.  It’s amazing that Congressman Lantos is the only holocaust survivor ever (?) elected to Congress.  His unique perspective has no doubt been invaluable to the Foreign Affairs Committee, and now may be lost forever.  He has lived a courageous and remarkable life that we all should celebrate.

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 3:55 PM)

A slight diversion from politics, so please forgive, but, for all you other "children of the 80s" who read or blog here, time to get out those parachute pants 'cause MC Hammer is making a comeback! Check this out:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080102/ap_on_hi_te/mc_entrepreneur

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 3:56 PM)

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:08 PM) -- Let’s hope and pray they all will.  Godspeed to them, and to their families.


Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 2:44 PM) -- Too easy.  No higher form of mammal in that group.  Reptiles, all.  

It’s easy to see how McCain would do better in New Hampshire, of course.   Many of the republicans there must view the other candidates as being from some other planet -- except maybe for Ron Paul.  I wish McCain hadn’t sold out to Bush on the war -- I think he disapponted his base and it's hurting his chances now.  Better he should have continued to be who he really was.  

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:10 PM)

Chris F (3:11 PM Post):

Funny you should mention sharks in Florida. When the boys were in their early teens they learned to surf at various beaches in Florida. Two of them had chunks taken out of their surf boards. When asking me about such attacks I took them out on a long high pier where I would always stand and observe them surfing. Needless to say their eyes grew quite wide when they counted 15 to 20 sharks swimming lazily among the surfers below. When coming to their senses I explained how the water was the shark's home, not theirs, and that they surfed at the pleasure or non-pleasure of the sharks. Then when demanding quite loudly how I could let them surf in the area knowing there were sharks swimming all around them I stated "well for one, none of the sharks appeared to be more then 5 to 6 feet in length and I figured you guys could handle the babies, and two, I never let you stay in the water after sunset when momma and pappa came out to feed." For some reason my explanation did not set too well with them, but it also did not keep them out of the water. And  afterwards, they never failed to shout in the direction of the water "At Your Pleasure"!!! before running and tossing their boards into the surf.

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:18 PM)

Foreign Policy Experience:

What is foreign policy experience? What is foreign policy experience that would make one person any more qualified to be President then another. Is it because they can speak more then one language and therefore make communications a bit easier during visits with world leaders. I have never understood the claim to having foreign policy experience. I understand that a person should have a pretty good grasp as to where countries are located on a map but what else is there? Is a good foreign policy not really driven by one's ability to develop interpersonal relationships and to exude a feeling of trust with those with whom a person comes into contact across the globe. Is  one's ability to develop interpersonal relationships as well as the ability to treat others as they would want to be treated not more important then knowing the exact pronunciation of the names of all the world leaders (or more important then having dined with a few foreign leaders in the past). Could not a farmer from Iowa who has never traveled beyond his community and who is very adept at making and keeping friends while at the same time committed to protecting his land and family not be just as qualified to perform foreign policy as someone who has traveled overseas on several occassions? I don't have any foreign policy experience (whatever that is), well, not politically speaking, but I bet I could come up with and implement a pretty good foreign policy strategy for this country as well as chat openly with world  leaders just as well and perhaps better then any of the current candidates. Foreign policy experience. It's over-rated. Just give me someone who has good interpersonal skills and is trustworthy, firm but fair.

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:45 PM)

Fortune Cookie (hard smack upside the head edition) Wednesday, January 2, 2008 3:15 PM..John Lennon has always been much maligned by many people, that's because they didn't understand his message. The FBI labeled him someone whose words and music made him out to overthrow the government. He was controversial to a point, but he believed in Peace, that's what he sang about, that's what he believed. I always admired those fellas since they first stepped on American soil. John in particular had a special place in my heart. It's ironic he met his end the way he did..just like Ms. Bhutto who dreamed of peace also. Keep posting the message Fortune, it is as true today as it was back when John Lennon sang about it, whether people choose to believe it or not..and no I am not a former flower child or hippy..was a little too young, but old enough to understand the message.

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:51 PM)

CA (Wednesday, January 02, 1:53 PM) --  What a coincidence. When I was a child, I got a box of used books from some family members, and among them was The Swiss Family Robinson.  I read it a million times, and like you, I wanted to live that idyllic, resourceful kind of life, except for the big snake in the cave, of course.  But snakes, like big and small cats, have their place in the ecological system.  Your swarm of locusts is an apt description -- reminds me of the movie Independence Day.  We naively think we can just loot the planet and some miracle will occur to save the next generations.  I sometimes have this grim foreboding that, the day after the last drop of oil is squandered, we’ll discover what it was really intended for, if you believe in such intentions.  No truly “intelligent designer” would have designed it to feed personal greed, wreck the environment, cause wars, and run out so quickly.

On John Edwards, you’re right, of course, that it’s political rhetoric, but I just wanted to throw it up there for discussion.  Seems like no one talks about this in concrete terms any more.  Krista’s post brings it home when she talks about the 3400 guardsmen who were leaving Indianapolis for Iraq today.  Why do we continue to put these people into harm’s way when we know we are not accomplishing any real objectives?  It seems more and more likely that, whenever we leave, today or down the road many years, Iraq will sink back into chaos until a new autocrat emerges.  Ten months may not be viable, I agree with that.  But at least it’s a concrete idea that can be considered from all sides, like the study you mention.  I’m frustrated that we’re just marking time right now for the sake of political expediency.  Even if we started bringing them home today, too many would die before we got them all home.  Every day wasted is tragic, in my view.  Knowing far better than I what it’s like, I’m sure you agree with that.

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:53 PM)

True Liberal (Sent Monday, December 31, 2007 1:45 PM)

Nah, I'd have to change my gender and knock a few years off of my age.  Since I've never been east of the the Texas/Louisiana border, it'd be a problem, too.  Been north to Oklahoma, Kansas, Nebraska, South Dakota, Wyoming, Colorado and Utah and west to New Mexico, Arizona, Nevada and California, but never east.  Nice try, though.

junebug (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:56 PM)



Kevin of NJ (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 5:19 AM)

What makes him "left-leaning"?  Disagreement with this criminal administration?  If that's your criteria, then you need to include the majority of this country in your definition of "left leaning."  I'm anything but "left leaning," and I agree with Keith on everything he says about these crooks.  They are NOT "right leaning" folks . . . well, I guess they are, but to the same extent that other dictatorial regimes throughout history have been.  They are certainly not the conservatives I've always voted for in the past.

As for Keith, sorry, Kevin, but sometimes the truth hurts and it doesn't conform with what you want to believe.

junebug (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:59 PM)

Fortune Cookie..in many ways doesn't Bush remind you of Nixon in that Nixon wanted to silence him for opposing the Vietnam War, just like Bush wants to silence us all for speaking out about Iraq. I'm glad the Freedom of Information finally gave John Lennon the justice he deserved. The FBI was wrong about him. Investigating him the way they did was a waste of time. Truth finally came out. They had nothing on him. In my opinion he was a great song writer, singer, and promoter of peace.

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 5:18 PM)

More stupid comments:

"Smoking kills. If you're killed you've lost a very important part of your life." - Brooke Shields

"Whenever I watch TV and see those poor starving kids all over the world, I can't help but cry. I mean I'd love to be skinny like that but not with all those flies and death and stuff." - Mariah Carey

"I've never had major knee surgery on any other part of my body." UK basketball forward Winston Bennett

"The word "genius" isn't applicable in football. A genius is a guy like Norman Einstein." - Joe Theisman

"We don't necessarily discriminate. We simply exclude certain types of people." - Colonel Wellmen, ROTC instructor

Full Moon (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 5:19 PM)

Knock, Knock -- is anyone there -- Keith, an intern someone it is now January 2nd at 6:00 pm I would hope someone real is there for a change??

paulet, Simsbury, CT (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 6:01 PM)

My dear Lord Peter, sir, how could I possibly forget you?  ...  With you on the case, Scotland Yard cannot help but succeed.  We should have thought of this before, like when we were looking for those WMDs.

Harriet Vane (aka Anna Molly) (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 3:28 PM)

If only the government had this whole thing could have been avoided.

Aunt Ornery (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 6:32 PM)

Here’s a hilarious, and yet scarily pathetic article from the Associated Press -- “Bush Scales Back Goals in Final Year”

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20071231/ap_on_go_pr_wh/bush_final_year

“President Bush's final-year agenda is a stripped-down list of what he can realistically hope to get done, since the clout he once touted is fading away.”

Wait.  Mr. Bush’s clout is fading away?  Who knew?  Maybe this is why --

“A hostile Congress awaits the president as he returns from fishing, cutting brush and clearing trails at his secluded Texas ranch.”

Poor Mr. Bush.  Having to give up fishing, cutting brush, and clearing trails to come back and face a hostile Congress.  Who in his (or her) right mind would want that job anyway?
-- I mean aside from the 12 or so people who are currently running for it?  

But here are my questions -- Exactly what WAS the agenda for the first seven years?  What aspects of Mr. Bush’s agenda DID he accomplish?  How could Mr. Bush possibly scale back his agenda any further?  And where do I go to contribute to a fund to keep Mr. Bush at the secluded Texas ranch so Congress can do its own job, for a change?  Because according to this article --

"Bush invoked his veto power like never before in 2007, with effectiveness. But it may have erased what little chance was left of broad, meaningful compromise with lawmakers.”

And time is clearly of the essence --

“Once they adjourn for the Fourth of July, it's hard to imagine they'll do much beyond appropriations bills.”

So, in summation -- effectively no government after July 4, and no government before July 4, either.  So much time and so little to do.  Where’s Willie Wonka when you need him?

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 7:36 PM)

Laura in Los Angeles (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:51 PM)

Thank you again for the kind words.  Maybe I have been a little oversensitive.  Your point is a good one.  Lennon was one of those people, like Countdown, who if the government (or in Countdown’s case, Bill O’Reilly) was against him, you had to be for him.  It’s amazing, isn’t it, how much reaction he can still engender, from both sides of the political aisle?  Today’s equivalent might be Barack Obama.  If you read some of the MSNBC blogs, he certainly has become a lightning rod.  I worry a little about him, too.  

Fortune Cookie (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 8:43 PM)

Hey, I actually have no clue where this should be posted, because it is a complaint with the Countdown. I think the show is great, one of the best to watch, but Keith, what's the deal? You report on stories that matter, such as Bhutto's death, and then tonight as I was watching your show, the number 1 story, I repeat number 1 is something about Britney, Hilton, and Lindsey Lohan. I actually heard entertainment tonight or something quoted. Come on! If you want to lower your standards, then I will stop watching. If you want to keep up with the standard that most of us have come to really appreciate, stop "reporting" on trash stories. Thanks for listening.

Ashley NY, NY (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 9:08 PM)

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:10 PM) I keep waiting for the 2000 Senator McCain to come back to reclaim his "evil twin" current Senator McCain. I miss that 2000 Senator McCain; I would've seriously considered voting for him had he been the Republican nominee. Of course, we all remember that GWB and Turd Blossom hijacked that candidacy in South Carolina.

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 9:09 PM)

Honestly Keith…I watch you every night but have to say that there are two segments in your show that always force me to turn to the Weather Channel….the Oddball segment and your #1 story segment about celebrities.  They just do not fit into the rest of the good programming you deliver and I just don’t understand why you continue to do those 2 segments.  And, no, they are not funny, just really  annoying.

Sorry……..

Mindy Mazer , Syracuse, NY (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 9:25 PM)

I was glad to see Countdown back tonight.  Watched intently and then saw that the number 1 story was about the 3 blond bimbos.  C'mon-certainly there was something more newsworthy than that crap.  Those 3 do not merit inclusion in the top stories of the day.  The only place they belong is perhaps "Oddball" and "Worst Persons".  C'mon Keith-the coverage of the bimbos is wearing a little thin.  I know we all need a little comic relief, but number 1.  Give me a break!!

Pat, south of the windy city, IL (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 9:28 PM)

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:45 PM) Hap-hap-Happy New Year to you! I agree with 90% of what you said. And, it would appear to me that precious few of the current candidates, especially on the Republican side, possess the qualities you listed in your post. So, when you have candidates who seem to (or at least try to) demonstrate those qualities AND have actual honest-to-goodness knowledge and experience about foreign policy, like Senators Dodd, Biden, Gov. Richardson, and Senator McCain, the choice should be even more obvious. I'm just awfully gun shy (so to speak) about another good 'ol boy to have a beer with who doesn't know his/her hiney hole from the Holy City from a hole in the ground being elected "the leader of the free world." There's too much at stake internationally these days. The qualities you so eloquently pointed out will be needed BIG TIME by the next President to clean up our image abroad after the mess left behind by the current administration. Did any of what I said make sense? I think the cold weather in these parts have begun to freeze my brain.

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 10:13 PM)

As for Keith, sorry, Kevin, but sometimes the truth hurts and it doesn't conform with what you want to believe.
junebug (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:59 PM)

You are way off base there.  For crying out loud, I was just pointing out that Keith is a liberal.  When was the last time he had a democrat as WPITW.

Krista, way back a couple of months ago, Keith was being interviewed by someone, and he believed that the 9:00 PM show should be similar to his, otherwise there was no continuity.  The article goes on to talk about the liberal leanings of MSNBC, with Keith as anchor.  He did not directly say he was a liberal, but the whole content of the article was about the conscious decision by MSNBC to lean left.  I never believed Fox was Fair and Balanced.  I am not a Fox fan.  As a matter of fact, I try to stay clear of most of the newscast, because of the manipulation of the actual news.  

You guys can call Keith what he wants, and admittedly at times he raises good points, but he certainly has left leanings.  I am not saying he should be ashamed of that, but if that is what you are, then that is what you are.  Wow, I didn't expect this reaction from you people.  

Anyway, that is my two cents.  I told you I was back and aiming to keep you liberals in line :D :D  As Carol states, choice your candidate wisely, don't vote based on 30 second soundbites.

Kevin of NJ (Sent Thursday, January 03, 2008 8:26 AM)

Krista (10:13 PM Post):

Of course what you said made sense as I respect greatly your feelings and beliefs. No one should be confused by that. And HAPPY NEW YEAR to you too!!

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Thursday, January 03, 2008 9:44 AM)

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:53 PM) "Krista’s post brings it home when she talks about the 3400 guardsmen who were leaving Indianapolis for Iraq today." Here's some more home bringing that I've learned since yesterday. The 3400 Indiana National Guard troops going to Iraq represents the largest deployment of Indiana soldiers since WWII. 90 out of 92 Indiana counties have at least 1 guardsmen in the group. This deployment is truly state wide.

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Thursday, January 03, 2008 12:32 PM)

I must write to echo the earlier comments regarding the much-too-lowbrow offerings after, let's say, 8:35pm each night on Countdown. The rest of my family, all devoted Countdown watchers, made similar comments to me over the holidays. Let's not give irresponsible "celebrities" any more attention than they already get on every other news channel. Countdown is and should be better than that.

I'm all for comic relief ...we all certainly need it, but I'm not so sure these "celebrities" and their antics are even funny anymore.

Regarding Keith's book: Fun read, quick read. Loved the Giuiliani tidbit. It still makes me laugh! On a publishing note: Not sure who's idea it was to release a book the day AFTER Christmas.

Kristin, Jewel of the Bay Shore, NJ (Sent Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:05 PM)

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 9:09 PM)

Krista – I agree -- the “evil twin” McCain remembers that hijacking only too well.  Sadly, this is definitely NOT the same McCain we saw in 2000.  Much the same way that Max Cleland, John Kerry, Alan Greenspan, and Scott McClellan (and probably many others) were not the same after their encounters with the forces of darkness.  I don’t know exactly how they do it in every case, but they always seem to know what to do to neutralize what they perceive to be threats.  That's a big reason why we can't put up with another eight years of this.

Anna Molly (Sent Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:16 PM)

C.A., (Wed., 4:18 post)

You totally cracked me up with your laconic description of surfing with the sharks!  As the youngsters say, ROFLMAO!  Bless you for teaching the boys respect for nature - and I'll bet they're great kids, too!

Thanks for a much needed laugh!

Chris F., Just o'er the border in Williconsinois (Sent Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:50 PM)

Kevin (8:26 AM):

Of course Keith is a liberal but I don't understand the reason for the conversation as to what Keith is or is not. We have liberal commentators and we have conservative commentators. We all know who is who. Keith may have some conservative leanings depending on the issue, but in over-all philosophy of course Keith leans left. One would have to have just arrived from another planet not to recognize that. But I still don't see the point.

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:59 PM)

"Regarding Keith's book: Fun read, quick read. Loved the Giuiliani tidbit. It still makes me laugh! On a publishing note: Not sure who's idea it was to release a book the day AFTER Christmas." Kristin, Jewel of the Bay Shore, NJ (Sent Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:05 PM) The only slight - and I do mean SLIGHT - justification I can come up with for the timing is that people will have gotten gift cards for bookstores or holiday cash to go out and spend it on Mr. Keith's book.

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Thursday, January 03, 2008 2:18 PM)

But I still don't see the point.
C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:59 PM)

Nor do I.  I was just pointing out that he leaned left.  I didn't expect the reaction.  I think this conversation is done.  but anyway.

Kevin of NJ (Sent Thursday, January 03, 2008 2:24 PM)

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Thursday, January 03, 2008 1:59 PM)

I will disagree, C.A. . . . just because Keith Olbermann is steadfastly against this corrupt administration does NOT mean that he is liberal or that he leans left.  Truth trumps political club membership . . . Olbermann, like many Americans, is simply sick of the BS.  

Kevin and others here see Olbermann as "leaning left" simply because they presume that "leaning right" means that one should not criticize the folks who claim to represent the Republican Party. This conservative is calling BS on that presumption.  Keith Olbermann is an AMERICAN who cares more about his country than he does political club loyalty.  We should have more folks in the media who show the love of country over political club that Olbermann does.

junebug (Sent Thursday, January 03, 2008 2:50 PM)

junebug (2:50 PM Post):

Perhaps we are getting into the middle of differences of opinion as to how one defines liberalism and conservatismn. I am not stating that Keith is not an American. I am not stating that Keith is not an American fed up with the BS or that he does not do a good job of constructively criticizing the same. But in my mind, if one reads into what Keith states, what directions he comes from when presenting himself, and the stances or positions he takes when sharing his views on numerous issues and topics, one would have to be blind or have a difference of opinion as to what liberalism is not to see that Keith leans left.  No one is saying there is anything right or wrong with leaning left, but in my opinion Keith is more liberal on many issues then he is conservative. You have your opinion based on your definitions and I'll respect that. But keep in mind that someone who leans right can also be fed up with the BS and rightly criticize this administration. That does not make them liberal. It makes them an American fed up with the BS who happens to lean right. Now if you want to eliminate all the labels that may help others to define how a person approaches many different issues and topics fine with me, so be it. No one is a liberal and no one is a conservative. There are just people who are fed up with the BS. I'll buy into that.

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Thursday, January 03, 2008 4:15 PM)

"But keep in mind that someone who leans right can also be fed up with the BS and rightly criticize this administration. That does not make them liberal. It makes them an American fed up with the BS who happens to lean right."

C.A., that's exactly what I said in my post above yours.  I didn't say a thing about not labeling folks . . . I merely pointed out that the tendency on this thread is to ASSUME that Olbermann is "left leaning" simply because he is disgusted with this administration.  I was pointing out the fallacy of that belief by stating that I, a conservative, am disgusted with this administration and I am FAR from "left leaning."  It has become a really bad habit of some folks to LABEL people simply because of those same folks' disdain for this administration.  Please read what I said before you chastise me.  You just re-iterated my sentiments.

As for Olbermann being "left leaning," I've seen no evidence of that (see my hypothesis above) and, since I don't know the man personally, I really don't know that I can judge his political "leanings."  

junebug (Sent Thursday, January 03, 2008 4:36 PM)

junebug (4:36 PM Post):

You are correct. One cannot determine another's leanings simply because they criticize this administration, and rightly so. I was not trying to chastise junebug. I was trying to say that it does not matter what way Keith leans. Politically I don't know either. So I will correct a statement I made. Based only on my personal interpreation of someone who leans left, it would appear to me that Keith leans left on many issues (not all of course). This discussion has about as much merit as discussing Britney on the eve of the votes in Iowa. I am kicking myself for getting into it.  

C A, Tuscaloosa, AL (Sent Thursday, January 03, 2008 5:13 PM)

Anna Molly aka Anomaly (Sent Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:53 PM) "Krista’s post brings it home when she talks about the 3400 guardsmen who were leaving Indianapolis for Iraq today." Here's some more home bringing that I've learned since yesterday. The 3400 Indiana National Guard troops going to Iraq represents the largest deployment of Indiana soldiers since WWII. 90 out of 92 Indiana counties have at least 1 guardsmen in the group. This deployment is truly state wide. Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Thursday, January 03, 2008 12:32 PM)

Krista – Wow.  That’s very interesting.  The cynic in me says it’s time to declare martial law – while the National Guard is gone and Bush controls the army.  But that’s just me, and conspiracy theory has been my mantra for a while with these the Bushies.  All the more reason to bring those troops home.  Now.

Anna Molly (Sent Thursday, January 03, 2008 5:28 PM)

Anna Molly (Sent Thursday, January 03, 2008 5:28 PM)
Are you putting me in charge of Indiana if you declare martial law? ;)

Krista Swisher, Indianapolis, IN (Sent Thursday, January 03, 2008 7:38 PM)

OK, I must not have said it forcefully enough the first time.......I HATE THE ODDBALL and CELEBRITIES segments.  Please replace them with something worth watching.
Thankyou

Mindy Mazur (Sent Friday, January 04, 2008 8:42 PM)

Dear Keith Olbermann,

It is very frustrating that the mainstream media have basically written off John Edwards as a viable candidate in New Hampshire in spite of his second place win in Iowa. It has been the Obama/Clinton race for months regardless of ideas, popularity or message.  What gives?

Thanks,  Michele

Michele, Morristown, NJ (Sent Saturday, January 05, 2008 3:49 PM)

Heard a snippet re orally&an obama staffer  what's the deal? i'm sure the h a was running true to form!  looking forward to keith's read.

karen backofen (Sent Sunday, January 06, 2008 12:22 AM)

If I may, I would comment on the Democratic choices of candidates. I think Obama is a likable guy, but he has barely been in office enough time to get his feet wet, and Edwards is someone who has some experience but not enough. I believe that our best choice for the Democratic choice to run for President would be Mrs. Clinton. Mrs. Clinton has been in the White House and has a good deal of experience and to me personally, I think she is very likable as a person. I have great respect for her husband and President Bill Clinton for the great job he did for our country.
I just think that we need someone in the Presidency that has experience, and knows enough about foreign affairs to be able to clean up the Bush disaster(s). Now is not the time to pick someone to be our President because they are likable, especially as screwed up as Bush has done to this country. From the wars to the constitution we need someone who has experience and not a junior senator that has a supporting staff that are only helping him because they have motives other than for the benefit of our citizens or the country, we need HILLARY !!

George S., Louisville, Kentucky (Sent Monday, January 07, 2008 3:15 AM)

Hi Kieth-
Good to have you back. I have a problem, how could any Anerican Citizen vote for someone who refuses for his own reasons to salute the Americsn Flag or say the Pledge of Allegiance?  If elected President would his beliefs, he was raised in Syria and is Islamic, interfer with his becoming Commander in charge?
I personally don't see him looking out for our best interests and following the laws of our land.
Thanks for listening.
Pete C.

Pete Chasas Lake City, Fl. 32024 (Sent Monday, January 07, 2008 5:08 PM)

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